[Rei]

So I've been wondering what other INTJ's feel about their role in a family; whether as someone's child, sibling, spouse, or parent.

My status right now is simply, a daughter and a younger sister. How lucky I am... Yet I feel more responsible for my family than most youngest daughters feel. I often believe that I am more responsible for my family members' well-being than my (suspected) ESFJ elder sister does.

Is this typical of INTJ's or do I just have an anxiety problem?
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[Cato the Younger]

I'm kind of super-independent. I don't feel responsibility for others nor do I feel they should feel responsibility for me.

[Rei]

	Originally Posted by Cato the Younger
	I'm kind of super-independent. *I don't feel responsibility for others nor do I feel they should feel responsibility for me.

Well I always believed that no one should feel responsible for me (anymore anyway). But I get all this attention poured on me when I don't need it.

[Guido]

My family dynamic was interesting to say the least... My dad is an ISTP. As father's go, I couldn't have asked for anything better. Great source of knowledge early on, and would give me space when I wanted it without hesitation. My mom on the other hand... is a little cracked. And by a little, I mean completely 100% omg wtf kind of cracked. She's an INFJ who scored 69 on an EQ test, which pretty much demonstrates that she's officially socially retarded. So imagine someone like this imposing their Feeling based Judgments on myself, my younger sister (ESFP) and brother (INTP border lining on J). Needless to say, my childhood was a lot more messed than most as my mother was ridiculously irrational. Bad day at work? Getting stressed? Random punishments all-round. Didn't do the dishes? You're grounded for a week. Came home at 1 am? Nothing... (was asleep cause she had a good day... no grounding when she finds out). Came home at 12? Bad day... so she stayed up until you got back, brooding about how you're such a bad child. And always in these moments, the biting comments would come out. The more I ignored them, the more she'd try and make them bite, because she felt she needed some kind of reaction from me.

Anyhow... my unique solution to this, was to forge an army :D Whenever one of us kids got punished irrationally, there was me to take the frontal assault on the argument lines. If a resolution couldn't be met, we went into 'war' mode, where we were completely distant for a good while. I think she stopped arguing with me when I was about 10 because I would constantly win. She 'felt' like she was being undermined as a parent, so her solution was to stop arguing with me. But yeah... war mode communicated fairly strongly 'If you give us BS, we aren't going to put up with it.' I also found myself constantly breaking the rules for the sake of breaking them. If a rule was unfair, I'd go out of my way to break it, to show that I didn't care about the rule or the punishment, which usually resulted in us going into war mode again. This was a great 'bargaining' chip when it came to 'making new rules' (which my mom would often do) because if I didn't ok the rule and have input into it, war mode could ensue. Which in turn resulted with my mom trying to come up with 'better' punishments, which then lead to me being more independent. My siblings and I are very close compared to a lot of families as a result of all this. Lesson learned? Don't fuck with INTJs as we are the ultimate masterminds hahaha.

I don't know if you're familiar with ESFPs or not... but my sister is one, and she's the exact opposite of me in almost every way. Being an older brother was very... taxing. Although I never felt exceedingly responsible for her except in some 'interesting situations', I feel I had to smack common sense into her whenever she talks to me about... anything o.0 Her type, is a people person type who doesn't think things through... ever... and tends to act on impulses. So most conversations result in me saying 'wtf, fix your life.' I never understood how some people can just 'not think' and then wonder why stuff goes wrong. Just baffling...

But yeah... that sums up my interesting family situation. I guess I've felt very responsible for the structural integrity of the whole family dynamic, but I imagine this is only because I think it would go wrong if I didn't step in. This probably ties in with the whole INTJ leader thing, where we will step up to fix things if we see they need fixing.

[Firelie]

Shoot, now I want to make my family take the test. *Too bad it's a voluntary thing, eh?

I think my dad may be another IN-type, and my mom and brother are definitely Feel-ers. *Listening to them argue is highly entertaining, though, since they're both pretty illogical about the arguments and they just play off each other until it escalates to screaming, which is when I need to step in and try to calm them down. *It usually works since I'm not prone to loud outbursts and it shocks people into silence if I pull out that commanding voice...har! :D

Soo how I feel about my role as a daughter and an ender of arguments... *I guess I feel fine about it. *I was lucky to have parents that encouraged my independence and never tried to mold me into something "proper". *Growing up, my mom always told me I could be anything I wanted to be and my dad often treated me like I was mentally on the same level as him.
I do feel some responsibility for them, though. *As they get older, I've come to realize that I'm probably going to be the one taking care of them when they're too old to take care of themselves...that's not to say my brother couldn't help, but he's the kind of person that doesn't talk to them or answer his phone for months, then pops up for holidays without calling to say he's coming, stuff like that.

[Rei]

My mother is an interesting character. I've been trying to analyze her for months... and it's really hard to tell what her first reaction would be. According to her, being a mother has forced her to learn to do things both ways, so in a sense, she's going to end up being a borderline EVERYTHING. I also realize that I definately got my INTJ "male-ness" from her as I often feel my dad is more of a woman than my mother is. (you see, my dad cleans the house, cooks, and is more dependant) My dad has always been more of an elder brother to me than a dad; and my mother more of a close friend than a mother.

My sister... wow, my mother never understood how my sister and I could be so different, having the same mother and upbringing and all. There is probably not one thing you can mention that we won't disagree on. I mean, considering my large range of music tastes, we've managed to like different artists within the same genre. She tends to, feel everyone is responsible for her more than her being responsible for anything. It's like the whole family is her personal servants. Drive her here at this time, have food ready for her when she gets home, take out the garbage (when she filled it up), to name a few. Might I add that she's a COMPLETE CONTROL FREAK. I don't know if ALL INTJ's are like this, but I HATE being controlled. The only person I have EVER allowed to control me is my mother, and that's because she knows her stuff, she's cool, and I love her to bits. We're getting into increasingly big fights because I savagely rebel against her. Lately I've toned it down a bit, in fear of driving her crazy (she tends to get a little wack when she's stressed out - self-induced stress may I add?) But yeah, because my sister's so attention needy, I've always felt I HAD to be the independent one to take the pressure off the family. I've also accepted the responsibility of my parents' future by now.

I guess the INTJ need to make things right? And INTJ's are known to be natural leaders, but not unless there is no one else to step in. So while I dislike being tied down by familial responsibilities, I have to step in because I know my sister is insuffecient in that area.

[Opti]

	Originally Posted by Rei
	she's a COMPLETE CONTROL FREAK. *I don't know if ALL INTJ's are like this, but I HATE being controlled.

You have just described my relationship with my Mother.

[Tarrick]

	Originally Posted by Rei
	Might I add that she's a COMPLETE CONTROL FREAK.

Query: Does she schedule things? Or semi-often refer to the past, or how things were done? Those are clear signs of being a Guardian, which is where most of the control freaks seem to come from. Some NTs can be that way, but only the really extroverted ones.


As for me and my family, I'm semi-independent, but I'm often called into the handle certain things. It would seem I'm too reliable for my own good.

[Rei]

	Originally Posted by Tarrick
	It would seem I'm too reliable for my own good.

I get the same feeling.

But anyway... she orders me to do things like turn the TV on (when everyone is sitting down eating dinner and she's just walking around, next to the tv no less, but she has to tell me to do it). *When she sees me with my street clothes on at home, she bugs me until i go change just to shut her up... She INSISTS I tell her what I'm doing/where I'm going/who I'm going with when my mother is not around. (my mother doesn't even ask that) she tells me to put things away ALL THE TIME. Even if i JUST finished with it and is busy doing something else.the whole world has to function on her instructions...

I'm quite sure she's an ESFJ... she's got this insecurity issue... which is probably what drives the control freak behaviour... (she needs to be acknowledged constantly)

[Guido]

Who said anything about it being voluntary? hahaha. Practice trying to place people, it's a great skill to have. The more you do it, the better you get at it. Also, the test is flawed in the sense that it assumes the person is honest. I've had a couple friends who thought the test was BS but it's because their retarded F was getting in the way. They were deciding things like 'I'm an extravert and I'm not judgmental' because they felt it was better to be like that. Thus, skewing their results since they were answering as what they thought they should be rather than what they actually were. Naturally, I tell them they're wrong and point them in the right place.

It gets a little tricky with the Fs, but for the most part I find the following pretty accurate:

I - E ) easy enough to tell :o Whether they prefer to unwind with or without people.
N - S ) Facts or theories? Anyone who would enjoy talking about personality types, seems to be an N and those who don't care seem to be Ss. This is true for about all 15 people I know who I've tried to talk to about this stuff.
T - F ) Are they smart? or dumb. It can sure feel like that sometimes :X I find this one difficult to put into words since I don’t relate to the whole feeling thing so well. But generally, this isn’t hard to figure out.
J - P ) Js are aggressive with their conclusions, while open with their theories. Ps are aggressive with their theories and are open ended with their conclusions.

Problem with this though, is that it's fairly generic. Some types won't work so well with using these criteria. The best way by far, is to take a couple guesses, and read some profiles. I have yet to meet a person who doesn't fit into one of the profiles by at like 80 percent.

I can't stand being controlled either... if I feel someone is trying to control me, I will almost go out of my way to show them that they can't... so long as that in itself isn't another form of control. This comes from having a problem with authority me thinks :D

I've noticed that the two siblings of a family that are close in age tend to be very different personality wise and have either 3 or all 4 traits reversed from each other. Like my ESFP sister who's well... an ESFP :o

[Tarrick]

	Originally Posted by Guido12.5
	T - F ) Are they smart? or dumb. It can sure feel like that sometimes :X I find this one difficult to put into words since I don’t relate to the whole feeling thing so well. But generally, this isn’t hard to figure out.

If you observe someone who is a F, then you will likely noticed they make choices based on "gut" or "the moment" rather then making a more carefully considered decision.

That and they will get up in arms over some issue a lot faster then a T will. Especially if they are a NF. I once took a class about Temperament and one girl in my group was...extreme. Very extreme.

[Rei]

Yes, I used to analyze people without the benifte of organized criteria.
This stuff makes it SO much easier. *It's sometimes hard to tell the diff though. *I have to set the differences more clearly in my head.

Thinkers I think tend to think about different possibilities more than Feelers do. *Or maybe I have this mixed up with the J/P...

Meanwhile, my sister and I are 8 years apart... and we're still as different as can be.

[Capwolf]

	Originally Posted by Tarrick
	If you observe someone who is a F, then you will likely noticed they make choices based on "gut" or "the moment" rather then making a more carefully considered decision.

I think it might seem that way, not necessarily because they're just deciding based on whim, but because F decides based on values - things they're likely to have 'carefully considered' (or taken as given) already. They don't always need to reason out the issue, because they already know how to handle the problem. Whether that works out well depends on the issue and on the Feeler.

[The Rose]

	Originally Posted by Guido12.5
	...T - F ) Are they smart? or dumb.

Guido! [smiley=wiseguy.gif]
That's not nice!


Sweetie, try personalitytype.com.
They have a brief questionaire that will probably help you decide.

[Guido]

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!!

[Bossy Mom]

My father was an ENTJ, so we were always fighting for power. I am the eldest child, and I have become very much like my father, bossy and super-responsible. I think my daughter was fortunate to have an INTJ for a mom. My now-deceased husband was very irresponsible, and since our daughter was born with a fatal liver disease, I have always made sure she was well taken care of with medical insurance and a roof over her head. Being a tenacious and headstrong person is not as negative as many think!

[INTJoe]

I feel much more responsible to my family than I feel they should be toward me. I'm very independent, and never just call my mom or dad out of the blue. Like, ever. If they call me, I'll talk for a while and listen, but I never just go over to visit or call them just "because". It's just not me.

But I seem to be like the "rock" in the family. Of the 6 of us (sister, 2 brothers, mom, dad, me), I seem to be the one who gets called with "problems" the most, or called for advice, or called to borrow money from.

I cannot think of the last time I called a sibling or parent with a "problem" or seeking their advice, and I've never really borrowed money.

I'm positive my father is either INTJ or INTP. His IQ, as is mine, is elevated from the other 4 family members. As for my other family members, it sounds weird, but I really can't tell what they are. Mom is definitely IT, 2 brothers are E's for sure and little sister is I, but my father and I are the only 2 cold, calculating bastards who like to theorize about stuff.

A few years ago my parents filed bankruptcy after years and years of non-communication about money, overspending, being wasteful, and delusional. It's been 3 years and they really haven't fixed the problem. They aren't borrowing anymore, but are still $85,000 in debt due to student loans. My mothers has blamed my father for the last 3 years because he "was in charge of the money", which is BS, because she never wanted to hear the problems, and he was too much of a wimp to tell her "no". Just utter dysfunction.

Myself, I am a stingy, savaholic. I've got a nice 401(k), hefty RothIRA for myself and my ISTJ girlfriend, only $10K left in student loan debt, and thousands being saved towards a home purchase in Summer of 2009.

I am the ONLY member of my family who has any fiscal responsibility whatsoever, and I literally worry everyday that my parents are going to be eating dogfood in their 60's. My brothers and sister also show poor money-management habits, but at least they listen to my preaching.

I've shown them my statements online and they became boggled at what I've amassed (not too much but to them they think I'm rich) and now look to me for financial guidance (I'm no whiz, mostly it's me b*tching at their indiscipline). My parents on the other hand don't really want to hear it. They don't want the help. Why would they? Who wants to listen to theis son about such things? They used to change my diaper...what do I know?

I've bought them a book on how to get out of debt and they read half of it. I've bought them tickets to a convention to hear a speaker on getting out of debt and my mom said "He's just making money off this. He's got a scheme just like everyone else. I don't really want to know about money." She also re-iterated to me that they are doing "much better" since she took over the money responsibilities because of "her financial savvy." !!!! LOL!!!! I know better.

I asked her what her long-term plan was to erase the $85K debt hanging over their head and she got upset and said "We're going to work for 14 more years!!!" and basically hung up on me.

I keep telling myself "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink." But I do NOT want to see my parents living like crap into their golden years. I care about them too much. I'm sort of stuck and it eats at me daily. They are fucking CLUELESS about money and they have no idea.

None of my other 3 siblings seem to worry or care about it. Being an INTJ-visionary type I suppose I can forecast the coming gloom moreso than they can.

Sorry so long, but this is my idea of feeling "responsible" for my family. My parents would be utterly shocked if they had any idea how much this ate away at me.

[aelan]

Being the oldest, I've always been expected to "set the example" for my sisters, which basically meant that whatever I did, I was supposed to be being a good influence, or else it'd be my fault when my sisters turned into drugee alcoholics, etc. [(Come to find out, what I actually do is irrelevant, at least to my middle sister as she seems to think I'm lying have this secret life of alcohol and pot like she does.. [smiley=annoyed.gif])

I feel as if I should be raising my little sister, and that this is actually partially my responsibility. I guess a lot of it has to do with the fact that I've seen and analyzed the effects that the way I was raised and my environment has had on me, and though she's much more confident and has a stronger sense of self than I did at that age, I want to make sure that it stays that way and that she doesn't get negatively influenced by the media, the family, peer pressure, etc., especiallynow, as she's just started middle school.

[TruorTupnm]

A few similarites here, for myself. My only family member to take that little test turned out to be my mother and an I. N. F. J. She seems a bit smarter than the I. N. F. J. mother described by Guido, but she has the same annoying tendencies. Other than that, she's the one that I can tolerate the longest. She was the best available for bouncing ideas off of. Horrible with money, though. I enjoy telling the story about how I used to hang out at vending machines after school to ask people for their change, that I might save up to get a soda or something, but I'd actually save up with the intent to hand lots of money to my mother, who could never stop complaining to her jobless children about how soon we'd all die. Oh, but she'd always have money for all kinds of great vacations every year. :
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oh well. She continues to attempt conversation these days, and even though I've told her that I am not really interested and don't understand why she is, I get guilt trips. oh well.

My evil father is one of those control freaks of the type that equals, "God is my best buddy. He told us what to eat for lunch. It only makes sense to obey me. You don't wish to. Oh. Well, I shall merely sit over here and shake my head with pity. One day, you will wish to relinquish your will to me." No thanks. He attempts to speak at me on birthdays and holidays and things, but that's it, and he doesn't attempt to toss guilt trips. That doesn't especially help me out with liking him, though.

I gots two sisters, one older and spoiled, doesn't seem to be especially intelligent, but everyone seems to love believing all of her evil lies, mostly about, "Of course I'll pay you back. Yeah, my current boyfriend or husband's gonna obtain his check tomorrow, crazy person." Ick. My evil younger sister is more of the type to wish for everyone to love her. Flips standards to fit whoever she happens to be hanging out with at the time. Terrifying.

They each received the chances to redeem themselves, just like everyone else I meet. Turns out, they aren't so great, so I don't concern myself with them.