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Old 06-09-2010, 04:15 PM   #1
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I have taken many tests. In the end I have tests regularly coming to 90% probability I am an introvert and thinker. BUT my N and J are sometimes showing up as S and P and the percentages are never out of the 50% range. After reading all the possible personality types I have come to conclude that INTJ best fits me. Is it really not something to worry about? What exactly do most people do when they are in the middle, especially on 2 categories? Opinions?
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Old 06-09-2010, 05:11 PM   #2
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  Originally Posted by rugal
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I have taken many tests. In the end I have tests regularly coming to 90% probability I am an introvert and thinker. BUT my N and J are sometimes showing up as S and P and the percentages are never out of the 50% range. After reading all the possible personality types I have come to conclude that INTJ best fits me. Is it really not something to worry about? What exactly do most people do when they are in the middle, especially on 2 categories? Opinions?

Welcome to the forum Rugal. Since this is your first post, I am not sure if you are aware of cognitive functions, but your thread is a great example for me to make a point to other members.

If you consistently test very clear on the introverting and thinking preferences, then it should make sense to transform this into your dominant function (I + T = Ti). The same goes for someone who consistently results in very clear preference for other dichotomy combos such as: E + N = Ne, I + N = Ni, etc.

You are also a giving a textbook example as well of the SP/NJ look-a-like theory (NTJ vs STP). The need for both these types to make theory applicable can be confused when taking assessments.

Thanks for letting me derail your thread momentarily, but back to your dilemma this is where you may be better off determining temperament first. These are only synopses, but one may resonate with you:

The Theoristô Temperament
(Strategic Skill Set)


The core needs are for mastery of concepts, knowledge, and competence. People of this temperament want to understand the operating principles of the universe and to learn or even develop theories for everything. They value expertise, logical consistency, concepts, and ideas and seek progress. They tend toward pragmatic, utilitarian actions with a technology focus. They trust logic above all else. They tend to be skeptical and highly value precision in language. Their learning style is conceptual, and they want to know the underlying principles that generate the details and facts rather than the details alone.

The Improviserô Temperament
(Tactical Skill Set)


The core needs are to have the freedom to act without hindrance and to see a marked result from action. People of this temperament highly value aesthetics, whether in nature or art. Their energies are focused on skillful performance, variety, and stimulation. They tend toward pragmatic, utilitarian actions with a focus on technique. They trust their impulses and have a drive to action. They learn best experientially and when they see the relevance of what they are learning to what they are doing. They enjoy hands-on, applied learning with a fast pace and freedom to explore.

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Old 06-09-2010, 11:01 PM   #3
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  Originally Posted by Functianalyst
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Welcome to the forum Rugal. Since this is your first post, I am not sure if you are aware of cognitive functions, but your thread is a great example for me to make a point to other members.

If you consistently test very clear on the introverting and thinking preferences, then it should make sense to transform this into your dominant function (I + T = Ti). The same goes for someone who consistently results in very clear preference for other dichotomy combos such as: E + N = Ne, I + N = Ni, etc.

I'm not sure why you assume this. A person could test strongly as I + T and actually be an Ni dominant - they just aren't as clear on the difference between Ni and Si since it's going on inside, and something people don't think about as much as T v. F. (even if they aren't thinking in terms of MBTI).

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Old 06-10-2010, 02:01 AM   #4
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  Originally Posted by Storm
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I'm not sure why you assume this. A person could test strongly as I + T and actually be an Ni dominant - they just aren't as clear on the difference between Ni and Si since it's going on inside, and something people don't think about as much as T v. F. (even if they aren't thinking in terms of MBTI).

Yes. The biggest problem with the MBTI tests is that the tests assume a certain degree of verbal recognition of particular patterns. It is fairly easy for a strong intuitive to get an S result, and a strong S to get an intuitive result: because the questions usually ask whether you prefer a big picture perspective, whether you prefer abstract theory. The questions cannot ask whether you think especially abstractly or concretely. Similarly for the J vs P, a lot of the behavioral stuff that is true for J and P when matched with S is not nearly so obvious when it's J vs P in an abstract-thinking N. Even when the stereotypes are mostly true, they are often quite off: my ex-wife, an ESFJ, was not a neat person who often cleaned house, but was totally OCD when organizing her work.

To the OP:

Just read up on the descriptions. In particular look up the flaws associated with each of the INTJ, INTP, ISTJ, and ISTP types. The flaws often make it more clear which type you are than the strengths. I found that analyzing my type found strengths in me that I really hadn't been able to describe before. Ni, the main function for an INTJ (and INFJ) works very oddly and is difficult to describe, yet it described how I approached things, and further described aspects of myself I'd not explored as thoroughly as I'd thought. Even then, while I'm clearly INTJ, I'm old enough to have developed Fi significantly and I'm probably working on Se without realizing it, so I don't "read" the same as other INTJs to non-INTJs. Even so, it was a friend that spotted that I was INTJ and explained MBTI to me.


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, so you can get a good bead on which of the two fit you better. The two are superficially similar until you understand the nuances. I would also suggest examining other forums for ISTJ and ISTP, and see what their posting styles are like. (The INTJforum prevents posting of links to other forums, to prevent spam and cross-posting, but you can google them easily.)

Give it time. Be patient. It takes a while to understand what is really meant by "Thinking" and "Feeling" and "Intuitive" and "Sensing," and how the introverted and extroverted flavors of these all differ in subtle but profound ways. Experience with others who have worked at typing themselves (mostly accurately) will give you a good grasp of how the types behave, and thus give you a good idea which type you might be.

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Old 06-10-2010, 11:20 AM   #5
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  Originally Posted by rugal
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I have taken many tests. In the end I have tests regularly coming to 90% probability I am an introvert and thinker. BUT my N and J are sometimes showing up as S and P and the percentages are never out of the 50% range. After reading all the possible personality types I have come to conclude that INTJ best fits me. Is it really not something to worry about? What exactly do most people do when they are in the middle, especially on 2 categories? Opinions?

It's nothing to worry about as each function is a spectrum and everyone varies on how strong they are with each. When I took the test recently, I'm close to borderline on the S-N and J-P. Like you, I'm also close to 100% on my I and T. What your score means is that you share traits with an INTP, ISTJ, and ISTP instead of being strictly an INTJ.

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Old 06-10-2010, 02:18 PM   #6
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  Originally Posted by rugal
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Is it really not something to worry about? What exactly do most people do when they are in the middle, especially on 2 categories? Opinions?

No, absolutely nothing to worry about. Hang in there and enjoy the road of self-discovery. Read up on cognitive functions and contrast that with your daily life. Take your time - it's a bit like peeling layers off an onion.

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Old 06-10-2010, 02:36 PM   #7
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Yeah, don't worry about it too much. As you interact with other people here more you may start to get a better idea, and there are plenty of people here who would probably be willing to give you their impressions of you as well.
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Old 06-10-2010, 03:44 PM   #8
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  Originally Posted by Storm
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I'm not sure why you assume this. A person could test strongly as I + T and actually be an Ni dominant - they just aren't as clear on the difference between Ni and Si since it's going on inside, and something people don't think about as much as T v. F. (even if they aren't thinking in terms of MBTI).

It's not an assumption, it's an actual fact. Surely you have analyzed the structure of questions on an assessment enough to know which provoke a thinking response, and which an intuiting response. I remain clueless to why NT types (with the exception of ENTJs) have this odd notion that they resonate more with their auxiliary function. By now there has been enough information posted for folks to know that the auxiliary function at best is a supplement to your dominant function but can never be equal to it, and is not guaranteed to develop. As for the Si comparison, I may have considered Ni before knowing about type but never Fi. I would be interested to know if dominant Te types ever considered themselves Fe types at some point. I am not sure how that would happen unless you simply do not know yourself.

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Old 06-10-2010, 11:44 PM   #9
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  Originally Posted by Functianalyst
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It's not an assumption, it's an actual fact.

It's not an "actual fact." I score high on T and I, but lower on N, but I am not an Ti, not anywhere near a Ti. I'm a strong Te.

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Old 06-11-2010, 01:44 AM   #10
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  Originally Posted by Functianalyst
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It's not an assumption, it's an actual fact. Surely you have analyzed the structure of questions on an assessment enough to know which provoke a thinking response, and which an intuiting response. I remain clueless to why NT types (with the exception of ENTJs) have this odd notion that they resonate more with their auxiliary function. By now there has been enough information posted for folks to know that the auxiliary function at best is a supplement to your dominant function but can never be equal to it, and is not guaranteed to develop. As for the Si comparison, I may have considered Ni before knowing about type but never Fi. I would be interested to know if dominant Te types ever considered themselves Fe types at some point. I am not sure how that would happen unless you simply do not know yourself.

Because intuition is ill-defined. It's easy for one to determine whether oneself tends to judge things more subjectively or objectively. The questions are fairly clear cut. The intuition vs sensing questions are, um, weird, and the answers often don't imply what they're intended to apply.

I would say, after having become familiar with Ni and Te, I definitely lead with Ni. But "just knowing things" doesn't seem like something I do, it's just how it is. It almost "isn't a function" cuz it's always there. I use Te consciously, but Ni is rather subconscious.

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Old 06-11-2010, 10:34 AM   #11
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  Originally Posted by Storm
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It's not an "actual fact." I score high on T and I, but lower on N, but I am not an Ti, not anywhere near a Ti. I'm a strong Te.

Storm you act as though you have never taken a test with these responses. You know which questions prompt thinking and intuiting results by now.

If you are basing your premise merely on the fact that your results show J as opposed to P, then it may behoove you to re-read why the validity of MBTI remains in question. The J/P questions skew results since dominant introverted judging types are almost never late for appointments, can assume responsibility, donít always like change, etc. It goes back to assertions that J/P means something other than preferring structure to not preferring structure. As for your adamancy, surely you are not basing your entire belief that you are INTJ on test results?

  Originally Posted by jndiii
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Because intuition is ill-defined. It's easy for one to determine whether oneself tends to judge things more subjectively or objectively. The questions are fairly clear cut. The intuition vs sensing questions are, um, weird, and the answers often don't imply what they're intended to apply.

Jndiii, granted I think many intuiting types forge answers to maintain their S/N distinction, you would instantly know whether a particular question would result in S/N vs T/F. That is my point, if someone is resulting in a higher thinking than intuiting score, then they are hoping that the assessment is correct along the J/P. I answer many questions toward J, because it is naturally how my Ti works.

  Originally Posted by jndiii
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I would say, after having become familiar with Ni and Te, I definitely lead with Ni. But "just knowing things" doesn't seem like something I do, it's just how it is. It almost "isn't a function" cuz it's always there. I use Te consciously, but Ni is rather subconscious.

And that should reflect on your having a higher preference for intuiting, but not because you score higher on judging, as opposed to perceiving. As for your final assertion, I think we all can appreciate (as introverts) that our auxiliary functions are more consciously. Subconsciously is an interesting term to use. I like to say that my Ti is so developed that it comes as natural as breathing, therefore itís easy to forget that itís what I use.

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Old 06-11-2010, 11:14 AM   #12
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  Originally Posted by Functianalyst
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Storm you act as though you have never taken a test with these responses. You know which questions prompt thinking and intuiting results by now.

I was responding to anything except your assertion that scoring high on two letters means you are the combination of that letter. So, someone who scores high on T and I is a Ti. I don't see any inherent connection between answering introverted and thinking questions strongly translates to a dominate preference for Ti over Te.

And no, I wasn't basing my result for Te over Ti on test results.

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Old 06-11-2010, 12:22 PM   #13
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  Originally Posted by Storm
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I was responding to anything except your assertion that scoring high on two letters means you are the combination of that letter. So, someone who scores high on T and I is a Ti. I don't see any inherent connection between answering introverted and thinking questions strongly translates to a dominate preference for Ti over Te.

And no, I wasn't basing my result for Te over Ti on test results.

Then I am really not sure what your response to my initial post is implying.

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Old 06-11-2010, 12:30 PM   #14
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  Originally Posted by Storm
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I was responding to anything except your assertion that scoring high on two letters means you are the combination of that letter. So, someone who scores high on T and I is a Ti. I don't see any inherent connection between answering introverted and thinking questions strongly translates to a dominate preference for Ti over Te.

And no, I wasn't basing my result for Te over Ti on test results.

I agree with Storm. I score high on I and N, not T/F and J/P with the MBTI. I waver higher on the last two, most likely because I have a strong use of my other functions (like Ni and Fi/Fe). However, I am not Ni dominant. I can appear that way though, when I go under stress.

On the cognitive functions I score well on everything but Si and Fe.

Because I was in stress mode I first wonder if I was an INFJ, not an INTJ at first. Fe was driving my decisions over the past few years quite a bit, and my Ti only recently got real control again. I do however, understand what you're talking about Functianalyst. I was always a hundred percent sure I was introverted and throughout my lifetime I referred to myself as a "thinker" first and foremost.

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Old 06-11-2010, 03:37 PM   #15
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  Originally Posted by jndiii
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I would say, after having become familiar with Ni and Te, I definitely lead with Ni. But "just knowing things" doesn't seem like something I do, it's just how it is. It almost "isn't a function" cuz it's always there. I use Te consciously, but Ni is rather subconscious.

I agree. I'm not aware of the process of Ni, only the result. The conviction behind a belief that I know to be true at my very core, but have limited explanation for. Or rather that I must generate the explanation for. I've always thought there were two entities within me, constantly at odds with one another. I called it the conscious and subconscious, if only because I didn't have better terminology to use. Te attempts diligently to verify Ni, and when it fails I'm left with a deep sense of doubt in myself; a strong conviction yet no reason.

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Old 06-11-2010, 04:46 PM   #16
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  Originally Posted by Amphorian
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I agree with Storm. I score high on I and N, not T/F and J/P with the MBTI. I waver higher on the last two, most likely because I have a strong use of my other functions (like Ni and Fi/Fe). However, I am not Ni dominant. I can appear that way though, when I go under stress.

On the cognitive functions I score well on everything but Si and Fe.

Because I was in stress mode I first wonder if I was an INFJ, not an INTJ at first. Fe was driving my decisions over the past few years quite a bit, and my Ti only recently got real control again. I do however, understand what you're talking about Functianalyst. I was always a hundred percent sure I was introverted and throughout my lifetime I referred to myself as a "thinker" first and foremost.

Amph are you alluding to cognitive function tests? They provide an idea of which functions are currently being used but not necessarily the type since our function usage can change as circumstances dictate. I am speaking strictly of assessments resulting in dichotomies, which appears to be what the OP is referring to. On those, you must translate the results into functions which is what I am doing.

Based on what you and Storm are saying is that you generally show a higher preference for thinking (Storm) and intuition (you), but claiming to dominate with intuition and thinking respectively. I am totally unsure why you think a test would render you a type contrary to someone who dominated with those preferred dichotomies. This is strictly based on translating your two most preferred dichotomies to your dominant function.

What is also apparent and again as I have continued to say in this thread, is that the J/P questions (which again is the reason for the lack of validity in MBTI) can be skewed since many dominant introverted judging types can relate to the judging questions and dominant introverted perceiving types can resonnate with perceiving questions. As I gave in an example earlier, I prefer to be on time, I prefer to have thing organized. J/P should not ask such questions since it's primary purpose is to determine whether you prefer your outer world to be structured or not. If you go through an assessment and pick out the J/P questions, you will always find it hard to answer them if you are truly answering the questions as they are supposed to be answered in how you are while alone and in a peaceful environment.

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Old 06-11-2010, 05:41 PM   #17
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@Functianalyst: I was agreeing with Storm about the fact the tests don't accurately state one's type. Usually I get INTP before ISTP on the cognitive test.
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Old 06-11-2010, 05:47 PM   #18
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  Originally Posted by Functianalyst
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Amph are you alluding to cognitive function tests? They provide an idea of which functions are currently being used but not necessarily the type since our function usage can change as circumstances dictate. I am speaking strictly of assessments resulting in dichotomies, which appears to be what the OP is referring to. On those, you must translate the results into functions which is what I am doing.

Based on what you and Storm are saying is that you generally show a higher preference for thinking (Storm) and intuition (you), but claiming to dominate with intuition and thinking respectively. I am totally unsure why you think a test would render you a type contrary to someone who dominated with those preferred dichotomies. This is strictly based on translating your two most preferred dichotomies to your dominant function.

I have never heard anyone but you, in this thread, state that whatever letter one shows the clearest preference for, is one's dominate function. And, based on my own experience, I'm saying this assumption is incorrect.

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Old 06-12-2010, 11:02 AM   #19
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  Originally Posted by Amphorian
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@Functianalyst: I was agreeing with Storm about the fact the tests don't accurately state one's type. Usually I get INTP before ISTP on the cognitive test.

Point made and I agree.

  Originally Posted by Storm
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I have never heard anyone but you, in this thread, state that whatever letter one shows the clearest preference for, is one's dominate function. And, based on my own experience, I'm saying this assumption is incorrect.

Storm letís use some common sense here. If you chose a list of ten descriptions of thinking over ten descriptions of intuiting, then would you continue to claim youíre INTJ, knowing that based on the principles that type prefers an intuiting function?

You are the one making an inaccurate assumption that because INTJs prefer intuition, then you must clearly prefer Ni over Ti, yet continue to argue your claim that you prefer thinking over intuiting. You are not eve asking if this could be accurate, and what your results are focused on if it rendered you INTJ. I will say again, you are giving too much credence to something that is not even a function. At best it merely represents the supplement to a function and more importantly it represents the outside world, not the internal world of an introverted type. You should be questioning how your results are allowing you to prefer thinking over intuiting, but still renders you INTJ.

It should be clear how this occurs, as I have continued to say in this thread. You are giving too much credence to your auxiliary function if you continue to believe you are INTJ. J/P is not a function, itís a dichotomy to get your final four letter code, and if you are truly taking a test as it supposed to be taken, then there is no way that you can consider that dichotomy because it defies being at home in a quiet peaceful place. It always requires you to consider how one interacts with the world. That should be apparent, which is why you cannot understand what you are claiming even defies the principles of type.

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Old 06-12-2010, 11:29 AM   #20
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  Originally Posted by Functianalyst
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What is also apparent and again as I have continued to say in this thread, is that the J/P questions (which again is the reason for the lack of validity in MBTI) can be skewed since many dominant introverted judging types can relate to the judging questions and dominant introverted perceiving types can resonnate with perceiving questions. As I gave in an example earlier, I prefer to be on time, I prefer to have thing organized. J/P should not ask such questions since it's primary purpose is to determine whether you prefer your outer world to be structured or not. If you go through an assessment and pick out the J/P questions, you will always find it hard to answer them if you are truly answering the questions as they are supposed to be answered in how you are while alone and in a peaceful environment.

I concur with this. I believe that the tests should try to test whether such outer world structure is objectively or subjectively motivated, i.e., questions that test for Fi vs Te vs Fe vs Ti. There is some correlation between testing J and preferring Te or Fe, but it is a weak one. Similarly, questions that differentiated between Ne vs Ni vs Se vs Si would be more helpful than the simplistic J ones.

And then there's the real problem with respect to the J/P questions: some very J people might not feel organized enough, feel that they procrastinate too much, and so on. One tends to be organized in particular areas of life, not all areas.

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Old 06-12-2010, 02:12 PM   #21
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  Originally Posted by jndiii
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I concur with this. I believe that the tests should try to test whether such outer world structure is objectively or subjectively motivated, i.e., questions that test for Fi vs Te vs Fe vs Ti. There is some correlation between testing J and preferring Te or Fe, but it is a weak one. Similarly, questions that differentiated between Ne vs Ni vs Se vs Si would be more helpful than the simplistic J ones.

And then there's the real problem with respect to the J/P questions: some very J people might not feel organized enough, feel that they procrastinate too much, and so on. One tends to be organized in particular areas of life, not all areas.

I completely agree Jndiii, and I am not above answering "J" to some questions, because being organized is relative if you are doing it internally with your thoughts. I have never understood procrastination except that if I am overwhelmed by, or have insufficient, data then it may preclude me making a decision. Is that really procrastination simply because by external standards, I did not act on it?

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Old 06-12-2010, 04:45 PM   #22
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  Originally Posted by Functianalyst
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Point made and I agree. Storm letís use some common sense here. If you chose a list of ten descriptions of thinking over ten descriptions of intuiting, then would you continue to claim youíre INTJ, knowing that based on the principles that type prefers an intuiting function?

You are the one making an inaccurate assumption that because INTJs prefer intuition, then you must clearly prefer Ni over Ti, yet continue to argue your claim that you prefer thinking over intuiting.

You are claiming that whatever one test clearest as, is one's dominate function. Surely you know that getting a result that shows you clearly prefer a function is different from saying you prefer that function the strongest?

Under your theory, if a person gets a results which says they are an INTJ, but they get, say, only 60% for N and 90% for T, they are really an INTP.

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Old 06-12-2010, 07:19 PM   #23
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Exactly, because you are over identifying with the J/P dichotomy, not the actual attitudes (E/I) and/or the actual functions (S/N, T/F). J/P refers to how we deal with the external world which is moot since we prefer introversion. But keep in mind I did say consistently get these results. I used to think that I was INTJ and some ISTJ descriptions fit me. But even when the test was professionally administered to me, I scored highest on thinking and introversion. There is absolutely, unequivocally no question that I could be E or F. So, what types dominate with thinking and introversion? That would not be INTJ. You're smart Storm, how can you not question how you can be so dominated by thinking, but result in preferring intuition as a dominant function? This may be one of those Ti things where I automatically take tests apart to see how they work.
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Old 06-12-2010, 07:23 PM   #24
Dasein
Member [41%]
MBTI: iNTP
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,652
 
MTBI tells me I am INTP/J. I define myself as an ENTP. I like being the center of attention and withdrawing at will.
Define yourself.
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Old 06-12-2010, 07:29 PM   #25
Functianalyst
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MBTI: ISTP
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 742
 

  Originally Posted by Dasein
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MTBI tells me I am INTP/J. I define myself as an ENTP. I like being the center of attention and withdrawing at will.
Define yourself.

When you say INTP/J, I am assuming your E/I is quite moderate and can go both ways, but the question is do you score higher on thinking or intuition?

**EDIT** What a coinky dink, same number of post.

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