[Mogura]

Is there a way to escape the unnecessary human drama of the workplace? Is there a way to make an honest income doing stimulating, challenging work without having to deal with incompetent managers, idiot bosses, asshole co-workers, whiny customers, and other morally bankrupt, two-faced twats that seem to pervade the workplace as well as society?

This is a riddle that I've been mulling over for some time now. Of course, a bad day at work sets my mind working more. But even so, I come up empty handed and clueless.

Any ideas?

[Jeroen De Dauw]

I do freelance software development - if I wanted I could sit at home for a month without ever talking to anyone except customers in the form of email or so.

[khadi]

	Originally Posted by Mogura To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Is there a way to escape the unnecessary human drama of the workplace?

Step out of it. Start your own business, hire whomever you want or no one at all.

Do you take issue with hierarchy? I know I do. I'm fine dealing with all sorts of people given a level of mutual respect. I prefer freelancer-client relationships to corporate ladder bs.

[brdmadgrl82]

Yes, I agree with khadi about starting your own business. I am not sure what field you are in to give you advice from the economic standpoint, but if your passion, drive, and desire are there you can do it! I met a scientist who started his own company doing research and is very successful. I think in any field there are opportunities for this type of independence. You can also consider management?

[Jobo]

i have the same prob with you @Mogura. i hate (although this is better than none) my current job as of now because it requires me to be with people. it really sucks talk to clients/suppliers/co-workers/bosses/to people EVERYDAY.

i am considering (hardly) starting my own business or working freelance.

---------- Post added 06-09-2010 at 05:30 AM ----------

but the big question is, what kind of freelance work or what kind of business should i choose??

[themuzicman]

Short answer? No.

Even if you start your own business, you have to become a people person who deals with customers all day long. Different relationship, same issues.

Now, as a business owner, you can tell twats to kiss off, but then you'll have to dig up new customers.

The only area I can think of that might get away from this some is research, where you're interacting more with some virus than management, but I doubt that completely resolves the problem.

[Warrior]

The title of the thread and the subsequent questions asked are really different things. You can "escape the workplace drama" in a sense by starting your own business with no employees, although people often romanticize just how much that happens. The office tends to move home and you become the only person available for every task. You are the CEO, but you are also the janitor and everything in between.

There really isn't any line of work that doesn't require human interaction. Even positions where that interaction is only through a web page still require it. In fact, positions like those tend to require even more social skills to be really effective, since the method of communication is so limited and so easy to misunderstand.

It isn't so much a question of not having social interactions in the workplace, but more about being able to develop your skills to work in any situation. If you don't want to do that, you can at least inventory the skills you have and find a position that matches your strengths. This is a risky proposition, though, as the requirements of any job are constantly changing, so the interactions required to accomplish them are as well.

[JocktheMotie]

Mortician, reasearch, writer, etc.

Take your hobby/skills and put them to use for yourself, not for others.

[TigerL]

Originally Posted by Warrior To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The title of the thread and the subsequent questions asked are really different things. You can "escape the workplace drama" in a sense by starting your own business with no employees, although people often romanticize just how much that happens. The office tends to move home and you become the only person available for every task. You are the CEO, but you are also the janitor and everything in between. There really isn't any line of work that doesn't require human interaction. Even positions where that interaction is only through a web page still require it. In fact, positions like those tend to require even more social skills to be really effective, since the method of communication is so limited and so easy to misunderstand. It isn't so much a question of not having social interactions in the workplace, but more about being able to develop your skills to work in any situation. If you don't want to do that, you can at least inventory the skills you have and find a position that matches your strengths. This is a risky proposition, though, as the requirements of any job are constantly changing, so the interactions required to accomplish them are as well.

Very true. You might have different types or different levels of interaction but every position requires it.

Research? On the science side, it's a myth that research is advanced by some lone mad scientist in the lab. Research requires collaboration with other researchers if you want to get future jobs, know what's going on, get funding, etc. If you're really intelligent but don't know how to network, you won't make it in high-level research, especially in academia. I have a good physicist friend who hates networking but does it because he recognized early on that's what it would take to get him where he wants to be. And he's a theoretical physicist.

Mortician? Sure, you're not dealing with the person directly but you're still dealing with the deceased's family who will have certain expectations about how they want their relative to look, how the service is run, etc. And believe me, people can be irrationally demanding when under emotional stress.

[Distance]

Partner with someone to take care of the people, client and marketing aspects, while you focus on producing end products and services.

[SuperSmart101]

Passive income requires little human interaction(phone calls) at first. Then afterwards, you never have to deal with anyone while making money every day.

[Frosted]

Originally Posted by Mogura To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Is there a way to escape the unnecessary human drama of the workplace? Is there a way to make an honest income doing stimulating, challenging work without having to deal with incompetent managers, idiot bosses, asshole co-workers, whiny customers, and other morally bankrupt, two-faced twats that seem to pervade the workplace as well as society? This is a riddle that I've been mulling over for some time now. Of course, a bad day at work sets my mind working more. But even so, I come up empty handed and clueless. Any ideas?

I'm 27 and only worked for about 6 different employers, 4 were manufacturing and 2 were retail. I have to say from my experience so far in life it seems that NO MATTER where you go the place is run by morons, and the higher-ups always create some really abstract methods for how things should get done -- and there's no convincing them otherwise. People with money or access to it, who are good at delegating, just have to have the place and hire experienced people to train some non-experienced people. Everyone will do their job and try hard cuz they need the paycheck, yet the owners reap the biggest rewards, but if they had to get things done on their own they wouldn't be able to. BLEH.. w/e.. I'm so tired of this game, this is one of the reasons why I'm getting a few internet businesses off the ground now so at 50 I don't wake up and say "oh fuck, I really should have tried that, man I wanna die".

haha

[ausguy96]

I'm leaning towards some kind of JAVA or .NET software development/DBA...doing the independent contracting thing and leveraging knowledge/ability into internet business

At the moment I am transitioning into a job that I think will allow me to keep my sanity, provide a good salary and benefits, and structured environment so I can pursue the above goals.

I'm with most folks, I need an exit-strategy from idiot-bosses, back-stabbers, morons in charge, promoting people to get rid of them...sadly, those folks seem to overwhelm any positives of a job or the positive people you get to work with.

I think you need to think long and hard about what exactly you want, what is "utopia" for you and then come up with an action plan.

[Mogura]

	Originally Posted by khadi To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Do you take issue with hierarchy? I know I do. I'm fine dealing with all sorts of people given a level of mutual respect. I prefer freelancer-client relationships to corporate ladder bs.

I think that perhaps I do (take issue with hierarchy). It's not that I dislike people...treat me with respect, and I'll treat you with respect. I just don't like others having power over me, because more often than not, that power is misused and abused...

---------- Post added 06-10-2010 at 05:02 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Jeroen De Dauw To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I do freelance software development - if I wanted I could sit at home for a month without ever talking to anyone except customers in the form of email or so.

I have kicked around this idea before. What kind of software do you develop, and how did you get the customers? You must have hit the pavement, done some networking, no?

[Gardenia]

Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Short answer? No. Even if you start your own business, you have to become a people person who deals with customers all day long. Different relationship, same issues. Now, as a business owner, you can tell twats to kiss off, but then you'll have to dig up new customers. The only area I can think of that might get away from this some is research, where you're interacting more with some virus than management, but I doubt that completely resolves the problem.

Very true.

Dealing with people is not an optional course you could totally escape from it if you don't like it.

Try to figure out what is your disadvantage in dealing with 'difficult' people. Fix it.

[Mader]

Starting your own business requires LOTS of people skills.

Mortician requires LOTS of people skills - morticians should get together and write a book about the crazy families they have to deal with and the goofy things that happen at services.

The best I think you will find is communicating by email as much as possible. I am very comfortable with email, sort of don't like face to face meetings and hate the telephone. Email allows me to put my thoughts together, the other two don't.

Option, buy some land out in the middle of no where and become a pioneer, living off the land. Go to town twice a year to get supplies.

[Wintersun]

I'm currently running a business with another INTJ friend. He recently got a third person, but since he isn't really around anyway it's more or less the two of us.

He handles the people and I handle the system. =)

[Bloody Annoyed]

I'm curious- for those that do freelance work how did you get past the initial fear of not having a steady income? I love the concept, but my mortgage and the future family I am planning, seem to require of me that I bring in steady pay.

That being said... have to agree with SuperSmart101... passive income is the only way I see to really get away from constant day-to-day interaction. For example, owning several properties and letting a management company run them for you would not require much daily communication on your end. But then you'll need the capital to get invested in the first place. Which means working. Oy.

[Mogura]

	Originally Posted by Bloody Annoyed To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'm curious- for those that do freelance work how did you get past the initial fear of not having a steady income? I love the concept, but my mortgage and the future family I am planning, seem to require of me that I bring in steady pay.

Wouldn't the best approach be to start freelancing on the side while maintaining a full-time job? If the freelancing gig takes off (e.g., you are swimming in the money and/or you find yourself so busy with it that you're being run ragged) then you'll have the confidence to make the leap of faith...

[Brittle]

	Wouldn't the best approach be to start freelancing on the side while maintaining a full-time job? If the freelancing gig takes off (e.g., you are swimming in the money and/or you find yourself so busy with it that you're being run ragged) then you'll have the confidence to make the leap of faith...

Mogura - this is exactly what I am in the process of doing at the moment. The company I currently work for could be fantastic if not for one individual who is making life hell for everyone. I've tried talking to the boss about it, but since they used to be intimately involved, there's little hope of things changing.

So after a casual bash at freelance copywriting while I was waiting for heart surgery (and was unable to hold a "normal" job), I have decided to take it on seriously. My former attempt was very low-key - I had limited resources, did zero promotion except for a website. I had two very large jobs offered to me, but because of timing (one was 2 weeks before the surgery, the other was a month after accepting my current job) I declined them.

To make this work, I am getting a website professionally designed, have a dedicated work phone, am putting together some promotional material for a targeted audience, have a proper office to work from, and have lined up some potential referrals from former work collegues. I have used the money from my current job to save up and finance what I need to get done and am feeling very confident about how it will go.

I guess the key is to find what you're good at and see if you can consult or freelance. Hell, some people are making a killing reselling stuff off ebay!

[Hamsta]

Housewife?

[Bloody Annoyed]

@Mogura: Now that you've said it, I thought "Oh, duh. Yeah, that's the smart way to go about getting into freelancing" Just didn't occur to me at first.

I blame the rut I've been in these past couple of years. Working in positions that leave me so completely drained at the end of the day (due to precisely the sort of drama you mentioned in your original post) makes it hard to summon the energy to do something that I know could help me find something better/might enjoy despite the drama- be it continuing my education, learning a new skill, capitalizing on the skills I have, or even general job searches... I guess that would be my first, personal, dilemma to get over.

Maybe Hamsta is on to something... Maybe within a year I could do the stay-at-home-mom route, but then one would eventually have to interact with PTA mothers? Which is worse? That group or the business drama? Sorry Mogura, I wish I could come up with a better answer to your riddle, but I think we will always have to deal with idiots somewhere. Cest la vie.

[paulm]

	Originally Posted by Jeroen De Dauw To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I do freelance software development - if I wanted I could sit at home for a month without ever talking to anyone except customers in the form of email or so.

I'd like to try freelancing (developing software, probably webapps) but the biggest issue or me would be the networking required in order to get new assignments in. Either that, or I'll have to create my own products and learn to market them.

I mean, my job involves other people, including those so loud even the extraverts get annoyed. But I have clear working hours (ignoring the odd crisis week, which is perhaps once a year?) so I have a clear barrier between work and the rest of my life. That's very important to me.

Pretty much all I do is program. No networking. No marketing. I'll let the experts deal with that.

[Seducer]

	Originally Posted by Gardenia To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Dealing with people is not an optional course you could totally escape from it if you don't like it.

Yes it is possible to totally escape. I did. I make money online. Extremely happy with it. It's totally stress free. Customers buy my stuff but I never talk to them. Other people (I think of them as my slaves) do customer service for me. I have no bosses or coworkers. I'm glad I never have to talk to customers because some of them are boneheads or abusive. I know from a previous job doing tech support work on the phone. I'll never do anything like that again. I'd rather die.

[Warrior]

Originally Posted by Seducer To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yes it is possible to totally escape. I did. I make money online. Extremely happy with it. It's totally stress free. Customers buy my stuff but I never talk to them. Other people (I think of them as my slaves) do customer service for me. I have no bosses or coworkers. I'm glad I never have to talk to customers because some of them are boneheads or abusive. I know from a previous job doing tech support work on the phone. I'll never do anything like that again. I'd rather die.

Just because you don't have direct interaction with your customers doesn't mean you have totally escaped all human interaction. I seriously doubt you have had absolutely no contact with any other person in your business venture.