problems resulting from not deferring to an idiotic authority

**Quiet Riot** · 06-02-2010, 02:47 PM

male, INTJ,11th grade, award winning debater.

So my INTP debate teacher, told me today that she'd scheduled a conference with my parents to talk about some "minor things about an issue that tends to surface with brilliant kids - they have trouble listening to adult figures" or something like that. she said it tactfully, in that "there's ten good things about you, and the one you might want to work on is...".

background: this lady is (not friendlily) referred to as an insane idiot by almost the entire team. About 6 kids are not staying on debate team next year because it can suck with her managing it. She was divorced a few years ago, is on antidepressants, comes from a strongly mormon family in Utah. Generally makes idiotic and pointless decisions regarding her classes, the debate team, (probably all spheres of her life), and has a general air of being close to the edge of an emotional breakdown half the time, and the rest shes like mentally checked out, as if shes going through the motions of teaching. I dont mean to say shes like a zombie, shes almost the opposite - comically entusiastic about certain things, like a retarded ADHD patient. She is similar to the archetype of the INTP in that she is least competent in Sensing (function), and that she chose a job as a teacher of multiple subjects like sociology, psychology, debate, speech. other than that, i would never have typed her as a Thinker because she is emotional, stupid, not objective, not rational, not logical. Very much intuitive -but not the good aspects of inutitive, essentially just the irritating ones. again, all the bad characteristics of Perceiver, too, but none of the good ones.

anyway, back to the situation. i now have a student-teacher-parent conference next week, and i plan to write out all the angry things ive been wanting to say to her, then just keep the pages to myself. i am a journaler, which i love to do - find writing things on paper is soothing and theurapeutic, plus i can read it all back one day and not lose my thoughts. but this i probably wouldnt keep, id just throw it away after a few days.

i plan to go into the meeting, be entirely detached, calm, polite but vacant, and perceptibly disinterested. I think total indifference sends the right message to this idiotic woman that her insanities will not be tolerated. My parents are on my side, they support me very much in everything and they know this woman is off her rocker, but its not like they can really refuse to go the conference and be polite at the same time. I

i'm going to be debate captain next year and i also want to get into a really excellent liberal arts colleges, which means i need a good recommendation from this nutso, among other, saner teachers who will all be able to say excellent things about me. this debate teacher will too, as long as i dont scar her for life and create a grudge against myself in her. But i've been wildly successful at debate, singlehandedly revived the debate reputation of my school among the forensics leagues, and put in hundreds of hours of work into preparing for debate tournaments, which i do excellent at, so even if she slips in subtle hints about my lack of deference to authority figures without simultaneously mentioning that she does not actually deserve or earn that deference (or her mental health issues), she can still write a great review. But i dont want even the little subtle hints. i am trying to get into one of the HYP elite three colleges - i wont say which for anonymity reasons, but competition is obviously cutthroat and everything matters. So, goals are to have an unsullied fantastic letter of recommendation, to gain a more respected sense of autonomy from this woman so she can leave me the hell alone and i can work on debate (forgot to mention - im self motivated) without her interruptions, distractions, and often(direct and indirect) active preventions from doing that work.

thoughts? better strategies? stories of people similar to this person and how you dealt with it? all very much appreciated

**SShack** · 06-02-2010, 04:01 PM

You are much more mature than I was at that age, first of all. It's hard to resist the urge to call her on the "appeal to authority" logical fallacy of her argument, heh.

The thing is though, you are likely to have to deal with flake teachers like this in college as well. At least one -- even if it's a good college. (I had one who was just an emotional basketcase who would turn on a dime and we were all concerned that she would just flunk us all in an emotional outburst. We began to prepare to deal with her with the dean if it happened. Fortunately, it didn't)

The keep your head down approach is probably the best approach here (which I'm extremely reluctant to admit). I'm not sure what sort of secondary school you go to, but conflict of a student against a teacher almost always ends in the teacher's favor unless there are allegations of illegal activity (and even then ...). Charter schools and private schools may be different, but I'd say it's probably smarter to keep your eye on the big picture and do the best you can on your own.

**reb** · 06-02-2010, 04:23 PM

the only flavor missing that i see is the 'disinterested' bit. learn to act. debate is close to theatre. put on an 'interested and polite' face for the meeting. you need her 'approval' for later; game it.

you already know to mumble 'mmm-hmmm' a lot, and not say anything that can follow you around. be the happy puppy; you don't have to like it, you have to gain from it.

**Autumnleaf** · 06-02-2010, 04:31 PM

You don't have to like or respect her. If you want her to help you you better make her think you like and respect her. It seems like all she wants is affirmation from you that she is important. Is it so hard to say thank you to her for making you the best debater you can be? For all the blood, sweat, and tears she's put into moulding impressionable young minds such as yours. She lives vicariously through you. Give her a decent ride and she'll probably make it worth your while. You might go from a decent debater with possible authority issues to the best student she's ever had with an enthusiastic recommendation for whatever you want from her. Is she hot?

**plotthickens** · 06-02-2010, 04:54 PM

You're in a debate with her about you and your future.

Win by getting a glowing & sincere reccommendation.

**jinn71** · 06-02-2010, 08:27 PM

Quiet Riot,
(i love it, does anyone else here remember when Quiet Riot 'Metal Health' first came out in the 80's)
So QR, i'm saying this to help you, not wag my finger or sound superior, I genuinely want to be of assistance to you.
11th grade...
how old is 11th grade again?, I know I was there, just can't remember, bit of a blur now.
So you're what 17-19? and you know everything, like we ALL did, so that's not a personal jab, just all of our reality at that time in our lives.
Maturity-yes (written, i don't know you personally)
Intellect-yes
Experience-limited
Wisdom-pending more experience and some personal disasters
Detached indifference- I would have done the exact same thing, self righteous and indignant to the end. I know better now.
What is it that you want?
A good recommendation? to win an argument/debate? make enemies all your life? to stick it to this person?
Do you want to show all present at this meeting how mature and smart you are?
then learn how to put you ego aside and start COMMUNICATING, not debating or arrogantly dismissing/disinterested/ignoring whatever this person has to say about/to you (it shows that you devalue them as a person and that you show no respect to others, (it doesn't matter how crazy she is), that stance will immediately make you appear as 17-19yo going on 5). It doesn't matter how 'INTJ' you are, show that you can function outside of Meyers Briggs box.

If you can actually show some humility, be respectful and attentive to what is being said, AND present your position without making personally phrased stabs, you can come out of this getting what you want, possibly making an ally, and looking mature beyond your years. It is not a debate or argument to be won, it IS PR skills (Public Relations). Where ever you decide to take your career with your debate skills you will also need to be a master of PR, learn it now and you will go far.
(you will also probably have to eat at least one mouthful of crow/humble pie, expect it, accept it, and get it over with, but thats OK, it's good for you)

Good Luck with everything QR

**Monte314** · 06-03-2010, 10:21 AM

I am in complete agreement with Jinn71 here. A word to the wise.

By your own account, this teacher approached you tentatively and sensitively with what she (apparently correctly) knew you would probably be unable to hear. This is prima facie evidence that she is going out on a limb to do something that she thinks will help you. Whether she is right in this belief is something for you to discuss with your parents; but I would extend to her the same compassion she has extended to you. Even if she is crazy, she deserves that much.

**Distance** · 06-03-2010, 10:36 AM

Before going into the conference, I would discuss your approach with your parents, letting them understand that THE most important aspect of all this, is that you receive a glowing recommendation from this woman. It's possible your parents might have their own ideas of how to approach this as a wide-eyed team in order to pacify your teacher by validating her position.

**Monte314** · 06-03-2010, 10:47 AM

As both a parent and a teacher (and one who has taken note of the *tone* of the OP), I think it is much more likely that Dad and Mom are fully aware of this... behavior pattern... and won't have to fake agreement with Ms. Nutzoid.

**Causa Mortis** · 06-03-2010, 11:10 AM

Monte is both wise and powerful.

Ignoring others' ego and perspectives while constantly touting your own is a) immature, b) likely to generate a great deal of animosity and c) unlikely to help you achieve your goals.

Cultivate humility. Discuss an issue you don't know that well with a real expert. Try a new activity and see how you do. Play a sport.

**Distance** · 06-03-2010, 11:11 AM

As a parent of a progidy teenager a couple of years younger than the OP, there's a balance that needs to be maintained between an educator who can't keep up and the student. Authority doesn't always equate to competence so a happy medium must be found in order for there to be some form of mutual respect.

**Causa Mortis** · 06-03-2010, 11:16 AM

	Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	As a parent of a progidy teenager a couple of years younger than the OP, there's a balance that needs to be maintained between an educator who can't keep up and the student. Authority doesn't always equate to competence so a happy medium must be found in order for there to be some form of mutual respect.

Although I agree with you, in the long run which do you think will better serve this individual: the little bit of extra intellectual push he or she might receive from a challenging educator, or a capacity to work with those less competent/intelligent than he or she is?

I'm thinking the latter is more important in the long run; if the OP is an INTJ, then they're autodidactic and will naturally push themselves intellectually, but social skill and working harmoniously with others probably will have to be actively (and often painfully) cultivated. At least that's been my path, and I wish I had started on this at 17 instead of at 24.

And in addition, there's this:

"i'm going to be debate captain next year and i also want to get into a really excellent liberal arts colleges, which means i need a good recommendation from this nutso, among other, saner teachers who will all be able to say excellent things about me."

**Distance** · 06-03-2010, 11:36 AM

	Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Before going into the conference, I would discuss your approach with your parents, letting them understand that THE most important aspect of all this, is that you receive a glowing recommendation from this woman. It's possible your parents might have their own ideas of how to approach this as a wide-eyed team in order to pacify your teacher by validating her position.

Originally Posted by Causa Mortis
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Although I agree with you, in the long run which do you think will better serve this individual: the little bit of extra intellectual push he or she might receive from a challenging educator, or a capacity to work with those less competent/intelligent than he or she is?

I'm thinking the latter is more important in the long run; if the OP is an INTJ, then they're autodidactic and will naturally push themselves intellectually, but social skill and working harmoniously with others probably will have to be actively (and often painfully) cultivated. At least that's been my path, and I wish I had started on this at 17 instead of at 24.

And in addition, there's this:

"i'm going to be debate captain next year and i also want to get into a really excellent liberal arts colleges, which means i need a good recommendation from this nutso, among other, saner teachers who will all be able to say excellent things about me."

You may have missed this post which states that he and his parents should work together towards accomplishing his end goal. Combine it with this excerpt from the post you quoted:


	Authority doesn't always equate to competence so a happy medium must be found in order for there to be some form of mutual respect.

The OP's intelligence comes through clearly in his post. He also deserves some validation.

Put all these three thoughts together and you can see there's room to find mutual respect. Who knows? Maybe this teacher is displaying her caring position by calling this conference.

**TigerL** · 06-03-2010, 12:24 PM

Jinn, Monte, and Causa have some good points for the OP.

Without knowing the exact history of what happened I was already put off by the "tone" as Monte says the OP puts into his writing. It was likely written in an emotional state and perhaps does not reflect accurately on the OP but if these are the words and this is the attitude he is carrying regularly, it's not going to get him far in life.

Buddy, I was in a secondary school program where prodigies were common. Those with your attitude got a drubbing (not necessarily intentional) from both their teachers and their even smarter classmates. Hate to break it to you but there are many, many intelligent people out in the world who know how to deal with authority and people of different backgrounds with grace and without resorting to personal traits. These folks end up in influential positions. (The smartest guy in our class had humor and a good-natured personality; he retired in his 30s from the computer industry.) There are only so many workplaces and groups that will tolerate the eccentric genius who has an ego that outstrips his/ her brain.

**Quiet Riot** · 06-03-2010, 07:43 PM

thank you all so much. i am consistently and pleasantly surprised by the quality of advice and the objectivity/intelligence of others on this fantastic forum. this is the first time ive posted a personal problem seeking advice, since im generally disinclined to being public, even on an essentially anonymous forum. However, i have realized that i need to make a habit of it, because the lot of you have provided me with invaluable insights and plenty of things i needed to hear.

Sshack, Jinn, and Causa Mortis, i agree with your comments about the need to learn how to deal with often incompetent authority figures. I usually am very good at it, and i always keep my tongue in check, even as my thoughts run wild, because i have long since recognized the importance of not burning bridges. My personal opinion about what caused her to schedule the conference is that she can tell the way i feel about her, and basically fills in the silences of the things i dont say out loud.

Reb, plotthickens, causa mortis, i wholeheartedly thank you for telling me what i needed to hear - suck it up and and just be fully polite during the meeting. My new plans are to view it as a challenge to be as courteous as possible, obviously without overdoing it or speaking excessively, and to validate her positions through restating them verbally (a useful technique that not enough people utilize). I will probably not commit to a change in behavior, because i havent done anything i wouldnt do again and that i wouldnt defend to anyone.

autumnleaf, i appreciate the thoughts, but i should have explained that it was not this woman who had anything to do with my debate success. She often, as i said, directly and indirectly prevents me from preparing for tournaments in various ways, mostly through wasting my time and energy. Slightly digressive, but the way i got so good at debate is by paying attention and taking notes on the most successful debaters at the intrastate and interstate tournaments, integrating their phrasing/methods/stategies and applying my own improvements, ingenuity, motivational drive, and will to win. The combination is lethal, trust me.
your idea about turning her into a strong ally is very useful, and i will probably be thinking more along those lines. ever since i got over the initial pissed off feeling, and shifted my thinking, ive been viewing this meeting/situation as an opportunity for both personal growth and trying to turn it to my advantage in any way possible. This is also digressive, but i find (useful advice for everyone of all ages) that shifting the way you view a situation can have massively positive ramifications for both your mental attitude, your mood, and your anger(if applicable to situation). it doesnt even matter if the way you view the situation is realistic or true - its just the way your mind works, given that perspective is everything. As INTJ's you all have major edges over the general population in both understanding and therefore controlling your thoughts and perspective (Introverted Intuition).

to Tiger and the others who mentioned my tone, tiger you're right, i did write the OP in a relatively pissed off attitude, and though i tried to keep that out it obviously seaped through. thats obviously not my general attitude, simply a temporary state of mind i was in.

Again, i read and thought about everything that was written, and i appreciate it all.

situation update: a few hours ago i got back from a high school awards ceremony and i had receive a debate award from this woman (who by the way is not hot, autumnleaf; shes vile, in both personality and appearance, and like 50) on stage. She sent word through other people recieving awards that we were to hug her when she gave us the award. though my initial (and spoken) reaction was "is she out of her fucking mind?", i thought about it and in the time between hearing these expectations and getting on stage, resolved simply to let it go and give her a cursory hug, even though i am both against touching people in general and especially touching teachers i actively despise.
So even before reading all you guys' comments, i have gotten more vigilant in marshalling my behavior so as not to be self-destructive to my future. For instance, i could have punched her in the face, haha.

So, please, new posters and returning posters, i welcome all advice, thought, and input.

**nanotube** · 06-04-2010, 11:44 PM

I don't know if you're overstating the importance of one letter of recommendation, but given it's your specialty and she's your coach I suppose you're right. College admissions people are not going to know who she is or what she's like, they'll value her opinion of you more than your opinion of her. So just suck it up and pretend (act well) to agree with her. Maybe even prepare a 'spontaneous' thought or analogy to pretend you suddenly see her point of view. Something like wisdom comes from experience, some things can't be taught quickly and so age and authority do add some weight to one's words. We teach kids the rules of do this, don't do that based on raw authority because they won't comprehend the full explanation yet... which, by the way, is true, you know.

06-02-2010, 02:47 PM	#1
Quiet Riot Member [03%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 147	male, INTJ,11th grade, award winning debater. So my INTP debate teacher, told me today that she'd scheduled a conference with my parents to talk about some "minor things about an issue that tends to surface with brilliant kids - they have trouble listening to adult figures" or something like that. she said it tactfully, in that "there's ten good things about you, and the one you might want to work on is...". background: this lady is (not friendlily) referred to as an insane idiot by almost the entire team. About 6 kids are not staying on debate team next year because it can suck with her managing it. She was divorced a few years ago, is on antidepressants, comes from a strongly mormon family in Utah. Generally makes idiotic and pointless decisions regarding her classes, the debate team, (probably all spheres of her life), and has a general air of being close to the edge of an emotional breakdown half the time, and the rest shes like mentally checked out, as if shes going through the motions of teaching. I dont mean to say shes like a zombie, shes almost the opposite - comically entusiastic about certain things, like a retarded ADHD patient. She is similar to the archetype of the INTP in that she is least competent in Sensing (function), and that she chose a job as a teacher of multiple subjects like sociology, psychology, debate, speech. other than that, i would never have typed her as a Thinker because she is emotional, stupid, not objective, not rational, not logical. Very much intuitive -but not the good aspects of inutitive, essentially just the irritating ones. again, all the bad characteristics of Perceiver, too, but none of the good ones. anyway, back to the situation. i now have a student-teacher-parent conference next week, and i plan to write out all the angry things ive been wanting to say to her, then just keep the pages to myself. i am a journaler, which i love to do - find writing things on paper is soothing and theurapeutic, plus i can read it all back one day and not lose my thoughts. but this i probably wouldnt keep, id just throw it away after a few days. i plan to go into the meeting, be entirely detached, calm, polite but vacant, and perceptibly disinterested. I think total indifference sends the right message to this idiotic woman that her insanities will not be tolerated. My parents are on my side, they support me very much in everything and they know this woman is off her rocker, but its not like they can really refuse to go the conference and be polite at the same time. I i'm going to be debate captain next year and i also want to get into a really excellent liberal arts colleges, which means i need a good recommendation from this nutso, among other, saner teachers who will all be able to say excellent things about me. this debate teacher will too, as long as i dont scar her for life and create a grudge against myself in her. But i've been wildly successful at debate, singlehandedly revived the debate reputation of my school among the forensics leagues, and put in hundreds of hours of work into preparing for debate tournaments, which i do excellent at, so even if she slips in subtle hints about my lack of deference to authority figures without simultaneously mentioning that she does not actually deserve or earn that deference (or her mental health issues), she can still write a great review. But i dont want even the little subtle hints. i am trying to get into one of the HYP elite three colleges - i wont say which for anonymity reasons, but competition is obviously cutthroat and everything matters. So, goals are to have an unsullied fantastic letter of recommendation, to gain a more respected sense of autonomy from this woman so she can leave me the hell alone and i can work on debate (forgot to mention - im self motivated) without her interruptions, distractions, and often(direct and indirect) active preventions from doing that work. thoughts? better strategies? stories of people similar to this person and how you dealt with it? all very much appreciated
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06-02-2010, 04:01 PM	#2
SShack Core Member [111%] MBTI: ENTP Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4,457	You are much more mature than I was at that age, first of all. It's hard to resist the urge to call her on the "appeal to authority" logical fallacy of her argument, heh. The thing is though, you are likely to have to deal with flake teachers like this in college as well. At least one -- even if it's a good college. (I had one who was just an emotional basketcase who would turn on a dime and we were all concerned that she would just flunk us all in an emotional outburst. We began to prepare to deal with her with the dean if it happened. Fortunately, it didn't) The keep your head down approach is probably the best approach here (which I'm extremely reluctant to admit). I'm not sure what sort of secondary school you go to, but conflict of a student against a teacher almost always ends in the teacher's favor unless there are allegations of illegal activity (and even then ...). Charter schools and private schools may be different, but I'd say it's probably smarter to keep your eye on the big picture and do the best you can on your own.
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06-02-2010, 04:23 PM	#3
reb Core Member [257%] MBTI: XNTJ Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 10,280	the only flavor missing that i see is the 'disinterested' bit. learn to act. debate is close to theatre. put on an 'interested and polite' face for the meeting. you need her 'approval' for later; game it. you already know to mumble 'mmm-hmmm' a lot, and not say anything that can follow you around. be the happy puppy; you don't have to like it, you have to gain from it.
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06-02-2010, 04:31 PM	#4
Autumnleaf Core Member [234%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 9,399	You don't have to like or respect her. If you want her to help you you better make her think you like and respect her. It seems like all she wants is affirmation from you that she is important. Is it so hard to say thank you to her for making you the best debater you can be? For all the blood, sweat, and tears she's put into moulding impressionable young minds such as yours. She lives vicariously through you. Give her a decent ride and she'll probably make it worth your while. You might go from a decent debater with possible authority issues to the best student she's ever had with an enthusiastic recommendation for whatever you want from her. Is she hot?
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06-02-2010, 04:54 PM	#5
plotthickens Core Member [677%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 27,110	You're in a debate with her about you and your future. Win by getting a glowing & sincere reccommendation.
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06-02-2010, 08:27 PM	#6
jinn71 New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 47	Quiet Riot, (i love it, does anyone else here remember when Quiet Riot 'Metal Health' first came out in the 80's) So QR, i'm saying this to help you, not wag my finger or sound superior, I genuinely want to be of assistance to you. 11th grade... how old is 11th grade again?, I know I was there, just can't remember, bit of a blur now. So you're what 17-19? and you know everything, like we ALL did, so that's not a personal jab, just all of our reality at that time in our lives. Maturity-yes (written, i don't know you personally) Intellect-yes Experience-limited Wisdom-pending more experience and some personal disasters Detached indifference- I would have done the exact same thing, self righteous and indignant to the end. I know better now. What is it that you want? A good recommendation? to win an argument/debate? make enemies all your life? to stick it to this person? Do you want to show all present at this meeting how mature and smart you are? then learn how to put you ego aside and start COMMUNICATING, not debating or arrogantly dismissing/disinterested/ignoring whatever this person has to say about/to you (it shows that you devalue them as a person and that you show no respect to others, (it doesn't matter how crazy she is), that stance will immediately make you appear as 17-19yo going on 5). It doesn't matter how 'INTJ' you are, show that you can function outside of Meyers Briggs box. If you can actually show some humility, be respectful and attentive to what is being said, AND present your position without making personally phrased stabs, you can come out of this getting what you want, possibly making an ally, and looking mature beyond your years. It is not a debate or argument to be won, it IS PR skills (Public Relations). Where ever you decide to take your career with your debate skills you will also need to be a master of PR, learn it now and you will go far. (you will also probably have to eat at least one mouthful of crow/humble pie, expect it, accept it, and get it over with, but thats OK, it's good for you) Good Luck with everything QR
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06-03-2010, 10:21 AM	#7
Monte314 Core Member [412%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 16,504	I am in complete agreement with Jinn71 here. A word to the wise. By your own account, this teacher approached you tentatively and sensitively with what she (apparently correctly) knew you would probably be unable to hear. This is prima facie evidence that she is going out on a limb to do something that she thinks will help you. Whether she is right in this belief is something for you to discuss with your parents; but I would extend to her the same compassion she has extended to you. Even if she is crazy, she deserves that much.
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06-03-2010, 10:36 AM	#8
Distance Core Member [418%] MBTI: eNTj Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 16,735	Before going into the conference, I would discuss your approach with your parents, letting them understand that THE most important aspect of all this, is that you receive a glowing recommendation from this woman. It's possible your parents might have their own ideas of how to approach this as a wide-eyed team in order to pacify your teacher by validating her position.
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06-03-2010, 10:47 AM	#9
Monte314 Core Member [412%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 16,504	As both a parent and a teacher (and one who has taken note of the tone of the OP), I think it is much more likely that Dad and Mom are fully aware of this... behavior pattern... and won't have to fake agreement with Ms. Nutzoid.
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06-03-2010, 11:10 AM	#10
Causa Mortis Core Member [118%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,746	Monte is both wise and powerful. Ignoring others' ego and perspectives while constantly touting your own is a) immature, b) likely to generate a great deal of animosity and c) unlikely to help you achieve your goals. Cultivate humility. Discuss an issue you don't know that well with a real expert. Try a new activity and see how you do. Play a sport.
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06-03-2010, 11:11 AM	#11
Distance Core Member [418%] MBTI: eNTj Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 16,735	As a parent of a progidy teenager a couple of years younger than the OP, there's a balance that needs to be maintained between an educator who can't keep up and the student. Authority doesn't always equate to competence so a happy medium must be found in order for there to be some form of mutual respect.
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06-03-2010, 12:24 PM	#14
TigerL Member [24%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 986	Jinn, Monte, and Causa have some good points for the OP. Without knowing the exact history of what happened I was already put off by the "tone" as Monte says the OP puts into his writing. It was likely written in an emotional state and perhaps does not reflect accurately on the OP but if these are the words and this is the attitude he is carrying regularly, it's not going to get him far in life. Buddy, I was in a secondary school program where prodigies were common. Those with your attitude got a drubbing (not necessarily intentional) from both their teachers and their even smarter classmates. Hate to break it to you but there are many, many intelligent people out in the world who know how to deal with authority and people of different backgrounds with grace and without resorting to personal traits. These folks end up in influential positions. (The smartest guy in our class had humor and a good-natured personality; he retired in his 30s from the computer industry.) There are only so many workplaces and groups that will tolerate the eccentric genius who has an ego that outstrips his/ her brain.
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06-03-2010, 07:43 PM	#15
Quiet Riot Member [03%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 147	thank you all so much. i am consistently and pleasantly surprised by the quality of advice and the objectivity/intelligence of others on this fantastic forum. this is the first time ive posted a personal problem seeking advice, since im generally disinclined to being public, even on an essentially anonymous forum. However, i have realized that i need to make a habit of it, because the lot of you have provided me with invaluable insights and plenty of things i needed to hear. Sshack, Jinn, and Causa Mortis, i agree with your comments about the need to learn how to deal with often incompetent authority figures. I usually am very good at it, and i always keep my tongue in check, even as my thoughts run wild, because i have long since recognized the importance of not burning bridges. My personal opinion about what caused her to schedule the conference is that she can tell the way i feel about her, and basically fills in the silences of the things i dont say out loud. Reb, plotthickens, causa mortis, i wholeheartedly thank you for telling me what i needed to hear - suck it up and and just be fully polite during the meeting. My new plans are to view it as a challenge to be as courteous as possible, obviously without overdoing it or speaking excessively, and to validate her positions through restating them verbally (a useful technique that not enough people utilize). I will probably not commit to a change in behavior, because i havent done anything i wouldnt do again and that i wouldnt defend to anyone. autumnleaf, i appreciate the thoughts, but i should have explained that it was not this woman who had anything to do with my debate success. She often, as i said, directly and indirectly prevents me from preparing for tournaments in various ways, mostly through wasting my time and energy. Slightly digressive, but the way i got so good at debate is by paying attention and taking notes on the most successful debaters at the intrastate and interstate tournaments, integrating their phrasing/methods/stategies and applying my own improvements, ingenuity, motivational drive, and will to win. The combination is lethal, trust me. your idea about turning her into a strong ally is very useful, and i will probably be thinking more along those lines. ever since i got over the initial pissed off feeling, and shifted my thinking, ive been viewing this meeting/situation as an opportunity for both personal growth and trying to turn it to my advantage in any way possible. This is also digressive, but i find (useful advice for everyone of all ages) that shifting the way you view a situation can have massively positive ramifications for both your mental attitude, your mood, and your anger(if applicable to situation). it doesnt even matter if the way you view the situation is realistic or true - its just the way your mind works, given that perspective is everything. As INTJ's you all have major edges over the general population in both understanding and therefore controlling your thoughts and perspective (Introverted Intuition). to Tiger and the others who mentioned my tone, tiger you're right, i did write the OP in a relatively pissed off attitude, and though i tried to keep that out it obviously seaped through. thats obviously not my general attitude, simply a temporary state of mind i was in. Again, i read and thought about everything that was written, and i appreciate it all. situation update: a few hours ago i got back from a high school awards ceremony and i had receive a debate award from this woman (who by the way is not hot, autumnleaf; shes vile, in both personality and appearance, and like 50) on stage. She sent word through other people recieving awards that we were to hug her when she gave us the award. though my initial (and spoken) reaction was "is she out of her fucking mind?", i thought about it and in the time between hearing these expectations and getting on stage, resolved simply to let it go and give her a cursory hug, even though i am both against touching people in general and especially touching teachers i actively despise. So even before reading all you guys' comments, i have gotten more vigilant in marshalling my behavior so as not to be self-destructive to my future. For instance, i could have punched her in the face, haha. So, please, new posters and returning posters, i welcome all advice, thought, and input.
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06-04-2010, 11:44 PM	#16
nanotube Member [03%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 140	I don't know if you're overstating the importance of one letter of recommendation, but given it's your specialty and she's your coach I suppose you're right. College admissions people are not going to know who she is or what she's like, they'll value her opinion of you more than your opinion of her. So just suck it up and pretend (act well) to agree with her. Maybe even prepare a 'spontaneous' thought or analogy to pretend you suddenly see her point of view. Something like wisdom comes from experience, some things can't be taught quickly and so age and authority do add some weight to one's words. We teach kids the rules of do this, don't do that based on raw authority because they won't comprehend the full explanation yet... which, by the way, is true, you know.
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