[episquared]

There's no conflict between feelings and logic - there's always a reason why we're feeling
something, even if it's hard to discover or just plain biological - so we can analyse them
as far as we want. Of course, it's difficult to do justice to feelings with analysis - "you're
grumpy with me because you can't handle intimacy" might be partially true, but life is always more complicated!

But we can't analyse without using our feelings: feelings are what shape
the premises we use, which can't themselves be logical all the way down.

[rara avis]

	Originally Posted by ms infp To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	By virtue of its existence, a feeling is valid. It sounds to me, though, like the psychological phenomenon that is occurring is one of the application of analytical thought to an analytical-resistant function, whereas it may not make sense to act on the feeling, but to discredit the feeling is (perhaps) unhealthy and unproductive.

How so? If you are feeling something that is extraneous to what is useful or reasonable, why would you care about that feeling? Or, more specifically, why would you intentionally care about it? Why label it "valid" in anything more than a nicey-nicey sense?

Feelings are the results of stimuli. In this way, they are logical- the results of a chain of internal events, some more easily identified than others. There's always a reason to them, in a sense. It just isn't always a good reason. Emotions may serve to motivate you in one direction or another. Occasionally, this is useful; much of the time it isn't. How you feel doesn't affect the facts of the matter; the facts don't care about how you feel, they are what they are. Take the feeling and use it, or do your best leave it or resolve it and move on, as you see fit.

[Gobbbler]

	Originally Posted by Quett To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Sure they can. If I'm angry because someone burned by house down, that makes sense. If I'm angry because someone baked me a cake, that doesn't make sense, barring any odd circumstances. I suppose if I was trying to lose weight and someone kept making me cakes even though they knew they shouldn't that would justify anger.

This is why I enjoy this place. I say stuff just like that last sentence all of the time. People find it annoying, but I can't help it so I try to make it more ridiculous... baking a cake full of laxatives the day of my horseriding date with Jessica Alba (that I bought fancy white horseriding pants for).

[jndiii]

	Originally Posted by cheerbear To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What are feelings supposed to be describing?

Um, they describe what you feel. Duh.

My main point is to ignore the logic, at least for a moment. Assume that nothing has to "make sense." By doing so, useful conclusions can be reached without having to verify how "logical" it is.

[Gobbbler]

Originally Posted by rara avis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

How so? If you are feeling something that is extraneous to what is useful or reasonable, why would you care about that feeling? Or, more specifically, why would you intentionally care about it? Why label it "valid" in anything more than a nicey-nicey sense? Feelings are the results of stimuli. In this way, they are logical- the results of a chain of internal events, some more easily identified than others. There's always a reason to them, in a sense. It just isn't always a good reason. Emotions may serve to motivate you in one direction or another. Occasionally, this is useful; much of the time it isn't. How you feel doesn't affect the facts of the matter; the facts don't care about how you feel, they are what they are. Take the feeling and use it, or do your best leave it or resolve it and move on, as you see fit.

As someone who studied both psychology and neurobio (over a decade ago), I'm going to suggest that feelings have their own "logic". Yes, feelings are the result of the interpretation of stimuli by a different system/part of our brain than the part that is engaged in high level analysis. The physical sensations do result from neurotransmitters and other chemicals released after the brain says so. The problem is that this system's "logic" is rather simple and doesn't always make accurate interpretations. The "thinking" part or system of our brain does have synapses to the emotional part that can suppress or induce its activity, although the chemicals can take a bit to flush out if they've been released. The emotional system is like any other not fully conscious processing (which includes the processing behind intuition) in that even though it is intricately linked to our fully conscious processing, the steps of this process are not directly accessible to the conscious brain.

[Nikita]

Newton's Third Law, only applied to human emotion.

[cheerbear]

	Originally Posted by jndiii To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Um, they describe what you feel. Duh. My main point is to ignore the logic, at least for a moment. Assume that nothing has to "make sense." By doing so, useful conclusions can be reached without having to verify how "logical" it is.

So if someone calls me a name and I feel nothing from it, this describes I'm feeling apathetic? Eh, somewhat but not exactly; it's inaccurate and incomplete. But going on that a bit further, couldn't it describe a characteristic of a person that perhaps they're just unfazed by that kind of immaturity? And then for someone who gets offended by getting called a name, maybe it could explain that they've been teased growing up so that's why it bothers them? But aren't they both logical feelings?

I just chuckle at all the T's trying to explain feelings as if they're something you can control at will. I agree that you can to a degree once you understand what it is you're feeling, but hello, F person here, and sometimes emotions pop up automatically almost like a reflex, and then it takes a bit of time to understand/organize your thoughts about which ones they are.

	Originally Posted by ms infp To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How can a feeling make logical sense?

But I guess what I'm wondering is, how does a feeling not make logical sense? Like in the example above, they're 2 separate emotions/reactions, but they're both logical and understandable.

Originally Posted by Gobbbler To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I analyze my feelings for their validity all of the time. If the feeling does not make sense based on the circumstances, then perhaps I am projecting or engaging in some other psychological phenomenon. Using love as an example, if I felt like I loved someone, but somehow it didn't fit, I might conclude that I am just needy or infatuated. Sometimes I get jealous and then logically decide that the situation didn't warrant jealously and I'm no longer jealous. I usually don't question happy though, I just roll with it.

I like this answer the best. I analyze my feelings as well, and it's safe to assume that the feelings come before the analyzing, otherwise there wouldn't be a need for analyzing! But it also goes into surrounding circumstances, which usually helps in making sense of emotions.

[Trevor Black]

Any issue can make sense logically if you apply logic.

Eating gives a nice feeling.
I eat.
Therefore, I have a nice feeling.

	Originally Posted by ms infp To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	By virtue of its existence, a feeling is valid. It sounds to me, though, like the psychological phenomenon that is occurring is one of the application of analytical thought to an analytical-resistant function, whereas it may not make sense to act on the feeling, but to discredit the feeling is (perhaps) unhealthy and unproductive.

Nope, feelings are felt. Though true, they may be not logically valid.

I get angry when I get presents.
I get a present for my birthday.
Therefore, I get angry.

[Exodus]

Defining any emotion proves to be a difficult task due to the fact that emotions are intangible. Associating a sound (such as a word) to something intangible like an emotion will result in an inability to form universal agreement due to variation in perception. Conversely, tangible objects we perceive universally the same way initially, however it is possible that our brains process the information in a different way. With tangible objects we are essentially allowing for variation in observation at a later point in the process of perception. With emotions it is different, it is at the very beginning of the process that universal perception breaks down. Emotions which are not innate survival responses (i.e. reflexes or instincts) are shaped by the experiences encountered over a lifetime. Due to the fact that every individual has a unique human experience, and in addition to the fact that we identify what an emotion is at the earliest stage of perception, there potentially exists as much variation in the perception of a given emotion as there are people on this earth. Nevertheless we find some degree of agreement concerning emotions. How can this be? I believe that this is possible because as a culture we have defined emotions not by inherent qualities that are exclusive to a given emotion, for which there are none, but by the end result of human response to emotion. That is, we reach some degree of agreement through recognizing behavior that is driven by emotion. These actions, the physical responses to intangible emotions, are the evidence by which we agree upon the definitions of emotions.

Edit: Also, do not make the mistake of concluding that emotions are irrational when, in actuallity, you may instead mean that some emotions are illegitimate. There are logical reasons why we experience motivation in the form of emotion, although they may not always be justfiably correct. Sometimes emotions are a misfiring response, and should be disregarded by the individual experiencing said emotion. Unfortunately, humans often make the mistake of believing that all emotion that is experienced is justifiable as legitimate.