[Insight]

Many of the women here on this forum seem to complain about how annoying it is that so much male-female interaction is sexual in nature. (I.e., "I can't make too much eye contact, or else . . ." or "I hate that if I'm being too friendly that means . . . ")

What cracks me up is that, in real life, a lot of women that I talk to complain about not being hit on enough. "Guys never hit on me," is the statement I hear all the time.

I'm starting to wonder whether these contradictory messages actually express the same idea:

"I'm tired of losers and awkward guys stuttering mindless banalities because they just want to pump me for two minutes and then leave. I'm waiting for an attractive man to see me for who I am, be enraptured with who I am, and then [various romantic/sexual ideals]."

It's the only idea I have that makes sense of all this . . . a woman's definition of "being hit on" involves a guy they're attracted to appealing to them, rather than any attempt by any man to try for a date or some sex . . . as though the unwanted guys who try to kick game don't count as being hit on.

It makes sense, because each of the three (maybe four!) times I've been hit on, the girl in question was so busy being attracted to me that she couldn't think about what to say, prompting the questions, "What's your major?" and "Where do you live?" Having that happen on a semi-regular basis would get old really fast :-D

[Blse]

Yes, being approached by people you don't find attractive is a bother. Being approached by people you find attractive is great.

[tooboku]

LOL. Don't get me starte don this but Blse pretty much hit it on the nose.

If you're not attractive to her, you can be the nicest guy in the world and she'll still think you're a creeper.

[LifesEcstasy]

Well do you really like it when someone you have no interest in approaches you? No, because it then means you have to go to a lot of effort to refuse that person without causing a scene. And for the record some guys can just get aggressive and insulting when a woman says no to them. As if the mere act of them approaching means we owe them something. The words "stuck up bitch" are often involved in such scenes.

A male co-worker recently told me I have a secret admirer at work. Someone he obviously knows. He acted rather smug about this and was puzzled when I didn't fall all over myself to try and find out who it is. Little does he know that I'm not flattered, I'm bothered by this news. Why? Because I never, ever date anyone I work with. I'd like to continue to enjoy my job if things don't work out. And because there is no-one in my company whom I am interested in.

So now what I have is a problem. Someone whom I work with who may at some stage hit on me and then I will have to refuse. I may also then suffer an awkward working relationship with that person forevermore. And I didn't start any of this awkward situation myself, all I did was take a job at a company.

Of course I would only appreciate being hit on by someone when there is mutual interest because then it leads to a more fulfilling outcome. Not much that defies logic there.

[tooboku]

Of course it's nice to be hit on by someone you're attracted to but how is the poor guy supposed to know that you're not attracted to him unless he tries? You can't argue the logic of just trying.

As per co-worker. Why not employ a blanketed rejection? Everyone at work gets the message and you don't end up singling anyone out.

[Blse]

	Originally Posted by tooboku To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Of course it's nice to be hit on by someone you're attracted to but how is the poor guy supposed to know that you're not attracted to him unless he tries? You can't argue the logic of just trying. As per co-worker. Why not employ a blanketed rejection? Everyone at work gets the message and you don't end up singling anyone out.

Well that would make her look like a conceited drama queen. But you're point about the guy is well-taken. Men are supposed to approach and risk rejection, that's sucky part of being a guy. Having to deal with unwelcome approaches is the sucky part of being a girl.

[LifesEcstasy]

Well yes I have to agree with you Tooboku on that score. I just wished people in general (men & women) didn't take it so hard when the answer is no.

[Insight]

	Originally Posted by LifesEcstasy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And for the record some guys can just get aggressive and insulting when a woman says no to them. As if the mere act of them approaching means we owe them something.

There's so much negative experience and unpleasant emotion behind this quote :-D

Damn right you don't owe them shit! But here's the thing . . . it's hard (for most people, anyway) to approach a stranger and talk to them. It's twice as hard to approach a woman you find attractive . . .

Really hard.

I think women certainly get this on an abstract level, but they don't really understand what this means. (Just as men don't really understand what it means to have someone one and a half times their size trying to have sex with them. It took me a long time to even think to see it from a woman's perspective.) Women understand it enough to enjoy residing in the passive role, waiting for a decent man to roll up on them. (I remember a friend of mine once saying, "MEN are the ones who are supposed to take a risk!")

I wonder, though, how many women have actually initiated with a guy they were sprung on, only to be rejected . . . in front of their friends. They speak for about a minute, then the guy pats the girl on the shoulder for trying and turns his back to her. Does that even happen to women?

Does this mean you shouldn't be so indignant? Certainly not . . . I've learned my lessons about what happens when someone tells a woman what they should feel :-D

[LifesEcstasy]

	Originally Posted by Insight To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	There's so much negative experience and unpleasant emotion behind this quote :-D

Yes there is. Unfortunately. I have memories of being screamed at in public by an irate lunatic I had the misfortune to not reciprocate feelings with. This same individual followed me home late at night. Extremely unpleasant and frightening.

[Storm]

	Originally Posted by Insight To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think women certainly get this on an abstract level, but they don't really understand what this means. .... I wonder, though, how many women have actually initiated with a guy they were sprung on, only to be rejected . . . in front of their friends. They speak for about a minute, then the guy pats the girl on the shoulder for trying and turns his back to her. Does that even happen to women?

I think more women ask men out on dates than you are giving them credit for.

And don't ask someone out in front of other people. It's awkward and embarrassing for both parties. So, no, it doesn't happen if you don't do it.

[cannotseethe]

	Originally Posted by LifesEcstasy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yes there is. Unfortunately. I have memories of being screamed at in public by an irate lunatic I had the misfortune to not reciprocate feelings with. This same individual followed me home late at night. Extremely unpleasant and frightening.

Every woman I've ever asked has a story like this one. Men would do well to bear this observation in mind, if only for their own sake, when considering whether to approach someone. I find this reality fairly shitty and have no sympathy for men who perpetuate it.

[whitey]

	Originally Posted by Insight To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	There's so much negative experience and unpleasant emotion behind this quote :-D Damn right you don't owe them shit! But here's the thing . . . it's hard (for most people, anyway) to approach a stranger and talk to them. It's twice as hard to approach a woman you find attractive . . . Really hard.

That's why you learn how to make it easy. You make it a point to initiate conversation with many people(ie: small talk, ugh I know...), and to not go into it with the intent of dating. Eventually you'll be able to initiate similar conversations with people of interest and it is during this period that you assess, the general level of interest and behaviors that the other person expresses to you. If you get a warm reception then the person may be open to a date. It can start incredibly small. Again, no expectations. Just keep assessing the other individual's responses. It'll make it easy to know if you should push things or drop them.

I used to have the worst social anxiety ever, especially around girls I liked. But, breaking things down like this worked great for me

---------- Post added 05-03-2010 at 12:03 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by LifesEcstasy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yes there is. Unfortunately. I have memories of being screamed at in public by an irate lunatic I had the misfortune to not reciprocate feelings with. This same individual followed me home late at night. Extremely unpleasant and frightening.

Did you laugh at them when they started acting crazy and emotional? One more reason to tote some mace or heat...I'd also get a dog for protection at home. They're loyal and will fuck up any nut that tries to mess with you.

[LifesEcstasy]

Originally Posted by whitey To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

That's why you learn how to make it easy. You make it a point to initiate conversation with many people(ie: small talk, ugh I know...), and to not go into it with the intent of dating. Eventually you'll be able to initiate similar conversations with people of interest and it is during this period that you assess, the general level of interest and behaviors that the other person expresses to you. If you get a warm reception then the person may be open to a date. It can start incredibly small. Again, no expectations. Just keep assessing the other individual's responses. It'll make it easy to know if you should push things or drop them. I used to have the worst social anxiety ever, especially around girls I liked. But, breaking things down like this worked great for me

Yes. This. I am highly unlikely to accept being hit on by a complete stranger. I'd much prefer you make some non-dating small talk first so I can see your personality and maybe even get to feel a little bit comfortable in your presence first.

[sms444]

	Originally Posted by LifesEcstasy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	A male co-worker recently told me I have a secret admirer at work. Someone he obviously knows. He acted rather smug about this and was puzzled when I didn't fall all over myself to try and find out who it is.

Are you sure it isn't him? Or perhaps he is just an additional secret admirer...

[LifesEcstasy]

that would just make the situation even more depressing than it already is.

[Aronnax]

	Originally Posted by Blse To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yes, being approached by people you don't find attractive is a bother. Being approached by people you find attractive is great.

This pretty much sums up the entire situation. Part of it is the approach but it also has a lot to do with attraction, c'est la vie.

[catzmeow]

Being hit on usually doesn't bother me. Even if I'm not attracted to the guy, it's still kind of a compliment. A stranger hitting on me has only worked twice in 30 years on me, but it's still nice to be told you're cute.

However, being hit on after I've graciously refused a guy is extremely annoying. Being hit on when I'm clearly occupied in doing something else is also annoying.

A couple of years ago, my girlfriend and I, who are both huge basketball fans, went to a bar to watch some NCAA games during March Madness. Maybe we were the only women there for the express purposes of watching the games, but nonetheless, I was hit on repeatedly.

I don't know how to say nicely, "I'm watching a game here, and I am totally not interested in you."

I finally said that to the third guy. I'm sure he thought I was a huge bitch, but w/e. Woman in bar does not equal woman looking to meet men. Sometimes, we're just there for a drink with our friends and a basketball game. Really. We're not being coy or playing a game.

[Ilara]

Originally Posted by Insight To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Many of the women here on this forum seem to complain about how annoying it is that so much male-female interaction is sexual in nature. (I.e., "I can't make too much eye contact, or else . . ." or "I hate that if I'm being too friendly that means . . . ") What cracks me up is that, in real life, a lot of women that I talk to complain about not being hit on enough. "Guys never hit on me," is the statement I hear all the time.

Who from? I could stand to be hit on a WHOLE lot less than I do. I pretty much can't leave the house without some smart-ass making a gross comment, trying to touch me, or saying something inappropriate or generally unpleasant. I hate honkers and whistlers and the twits who think that harassing a woman is okay. This kind of purely sexual and truly impersonal approach is extremely offensive to me.

Originally Posted by Insight To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I'm starting to wonder whether these contradictory messages actually express the same idea: "I'm tired of losers and awkward guys stuttering mindless banalities because they just want to pump me for two minutes and then leave. I'm waiting for an attractive man to see me for who I am, be enraptured with who I am, and then [various romantic/sexual ideals]." It's the only idea I have that makes sense of all this . . . a woman's definition of "being hit on" involves a guy they're attracted to appealing to them, rather than any attempt by any man to try for a date or some sex . . . as though the unwanted guys who try to kick game don't count as being hit on. It makes sense, because each of the three (maybe four!) times I've been hit on, the girl in question was so busy being attracted to me that she couldn't think about what to say, prompting the questions, "What's your major?" and "Where do you live?" Having that happen on a semi-regular basis would get old really fast :-D

I count it all as 'being hit on', which is why I have such a general aversion to the idea. I'm fine with being approached. But 'being hit on' has a connotation of the purely sexual approach that I find quite distasteful.

The men who approach me politely receive a polite--and firm--response. The jackasses who can't keep their hands and stupid comments to themselves can fester in the f***ing streets for all I care. I owe them nothing.

	Originally Posted by cannotseethe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Every woman I've ever asked has a story like this one. Men would do well to bear this observation in mind, if only for their own sake, when considering whether to approach someone. I find this reality fairly shitty and have no sympathy for men who perpetuate it.

This. There are a lot of men who not only act very rude and pushy in their approach, but who are unwilling to calmly or gracefully accept rejection. Most women I know have been stalked or assaulted (including me). Men would do well to remember that yes, they're likely not assholes. But that one predatory bastard in a hundred will go after hundreds of women, so we're all very aware of the risks that we face in interacting with strange men.

It's a shitty deal for all those nice men out there, but it's also the reality of a lot of women's lives. Strange men = high risk of bad shite going down.

	Originally Posted by Insight To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	There's so much negative experience and unpleasant emotion behind this quote :-D

A lot of women have cause for those feelings.

Originally Posted by Insight To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Here's the thing . . . it's hard (for most people, anyway) to approach a stranger and talk to them. It's twice as hard to approach a woman you find attractive . . . Really hard. I think women certainly get this on an abstract level, but they don't really understand what this means. (Just as men don't really understand what it means to have someone one and a half times their size trying to have sex with them. It took me a long time to even think to see it from a woman's perspective.) Women understand it enough to enjoy residing in the passive role, waiting for a decent man to roll up on them. (I remember a friend of mine once saying, "MEN are the ones who are supposed to take a risk!")

Who are these women you're talking about?

Accepting these premises would require me to accept that men do all of the approaching and that women simply sit around and await the men who would hit on them. This is not true in my experience. I make my interest as clear as I can when I'm interested in a man.

That interest doesn't happen until I know and at least partially can trust him. I don't like being hit on by strangers for this reason. I am not going ANYWHERE with somebody I don't know. Creepy.

I would love for those kinds of approaches to end. I hardly solicit them. I dress well and very conservatively (I don't bare my legs and generally wear long sleeves or at the very least ensure that my shoulders and chest are completely covered). I am not inviting in my behaviour (I am a brisk walker because unless I am with somebody, I am going somewhere and therefore I mean business in getting there). I don't go to places that invite such advances (like a bar or club). But I still get hit on by strange men. One of whom, rather memorably, pulled over his car, got out, and demanded that I "come for a ride, hot stuff", and got quite volubly aggressive when I refused. Fortunately for me, I am a brisk walker and there was a convenient one-way street down which to duck with promptness. THIS is what's in the back of my mind every time a strange man approaches me. Men would do well to remember that most women have at least one memory like this--or worse.

So, to bring this all back to your original post, I would say that women's complaints about the overtly sexual nature of men's approaches is rooted in this simple base: we're approached by strange men who are potentially and often actually threatening to us. A purely sexual advance right off the bat is intimidating and unpleasant because it seems to imply both that our personal selves and opinions are of no consequence (just a body) and that the man doesn't care about us personally (and therefore might well be a rapist or other kind of scary predator).

Women don't get approached nearly so much by nice, polite men who aren't being crude. They might well mean that they aren't hit on enough by the nice guy who tries to get to know you and make you feel comfortable rather than the jerk who tries to convince you that he's so awesome that you should totally just want to have sex with him RIGHT NOW. And if you don't, you're just an uptight b****.

/rant

... I have a bit of a short fuse on this topic.

[hubcap]

How do you define "Being hit on" ?

If someone asks you for a date, is that being hit on? Or is it being hit on if they are overly friendly while trying to determine if you have any interest in them?

If I asked someone for a date and they said "No" it is time to move on........sans drama. I'm not emotionally invested so why should there be any drama?

[Storm]

I, too, am unclear as to what "being hit on" means here. A person initiating conversation with me to find out if I'm interesting enough to get a phone number from? No, I don't mind. A person whistling at me from their moving vehicle as I walk down the street? Yes, I do mind.

[Haildancer]

	Originally Posted by tooboku To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Of course it's nice to be hit on by someone you're attracted to but how is the poor guy supposed to know that you're not attracted to him unless he tries? You can't argue the logic of just trying. As per co-worker. Why not employ a blanketed rejection? Everyone at work gets the message and you don't end up singling anyone out.

My blanket rejection? I wear a ring. I'm not married, but that's not any of my co-workers' business.

	Originally Posted by Blse To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Well that would make her look like a conceited drama queen. But you're point about the guy is well-taken. Men are supposed to approach and risk rejection, that's sucky part of being a guy. Having to deal with unwelcome approaches is the sucky part of being a girl.

Rumors about someone already being in a relationship usually travel pretty quickly. No drama needed.

	Originally Posted by LifesEcstasy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Well yes I have to agree with you Tooboku on that score. I just wished people in general (men & women) didn't take it so hard when the answer is no.

	Originally Posted by LifesEcstasy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yes there is. Unfortunately. I have memories of being screamed at in public by an irate lunatic I had the misfortune to not reciprocate feelings with. This same individual followed me home late at night. Extremely unpleasant and frightening.

For me, outside of the workplace, I find a kind "thank you, but I have a boyfriend" to be the easiest rejection there is. It allows the guy to think "hey, if she weren't taken, I'd have a chance" and protect his precious ego. Regardless of my relationship status, that is my go-to answer.

	Originally Posted by hubcap To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How do you define "Being hit on" ? If someone asks you for a date, is that being hit on? Or is it being hit on if they are overly friendly while trying to determine if you have any interest in them? If I asked someone for a date and they said "No" it is time to move on........sans drama. I'm not emotionally invested so why should there be any drama?

As referenced above, for some guys it's a blow to the ego. Their immediate internal response is "What? I'm not good enough for you?" Which then causes them to go on the offensive to soothe their precious self-esteem. Another reason I stick with the "I have a boyfriend" response.

[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by Storm To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I, too, am unclear as to what "being hit on" means here. A person initiating conversation with me to find out if I'm interesting enough to get a phone number from? No, I don't mind. A person whistling at me from their moving vehicle as I walk down the street? Yes, I do mind.

Actually, I'm the opposite. The whistle is an ego boost which demands nothing from me. Being hit on is when a man I don't know walks up to me and starts a conversation in which he expresses that I'm attractive, he wants to buy me a drink, whatever, whatever.

As Ilara said, I don't date strangers. Being approached by strange men is a compliment, but at the same time, deeply uncomfortable. There are only two guys who've succeeded in this in my entire life out of dozens, and it's because after talking somewhere (a bar and a hardware store), they tactfully and courteously asked me out on a date. And we met both times in a public place. And there were several phone conversations in between.

I am friendly, and I will talk to almost anyone, but if I chat with you, and then you make some lewd comment to me, you're so done. Almost never do guys seem to get it right. I can make friendly conversation with you. Why don't guys say, "You're really cute, could we have coffee sometime?" Or something equally threatening? But they don't. They always say creepy douchebaggy things. Like..."Nice tits."

Being asked to dance is fine, I will usually dance, but I hate it when a stranger tries to sexy dance or grind on me. GROSS.

[temi]

There are two issues of frustration for me with the "being hit on too much" notion.

1) As many have posted above, a lot of men don't gracefully accept rejection. If a woman knew that she could kindly say no and the man would politely go in another direction, we probably wouldn't mind it so much. But too often, as soon as you say no, a man goes into sales pitch mode. As if being a used car salesman is suddenly going to get me to change my mind. It's pushy, it's disrespectful, and it leaves a very bad taste in one's mouth that lingers to the next time. I read a great quote the other day that said people act based on two things -- instinct and experience. Experience with how men push *after* rejection makes us dread the next being-hit-on by men we're not interested in.

2) Being hit on in an overtly sexual way can be distasteful, even if you love sex and the guy is hot! (But it's terrible if the guy is unattractive and/or you hate sex). Because even if the guy is hot, it is still objectifying. And I can't imagine many INTJ women who feed off of being objectified. If a guy is hot, I'm hoping he's smart too cuz then it's an awesome potential. But if all his blood is going to one place and I can't depict how active his brain is, it's not very enjoyable -- hot or not.

[Vergil96]

It is because women are contradictory. They never know what they want. NEVER.

[Storm]

	Originally Posted by catzmeow To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Actually, I'm the opposite. The whistle is an ego boost which demands nothing from me. Being hit on is when a man I don't know walks up to me and starts a conversation in which he expresses that I'm attractive, he wants to buy me a drink, whatever, whatever.

I just meant a person who talks to you without explicitly saying that he finds you attractive or tries to buy you anything. Just talking like anyone else would.