[Vayate]

I avoid them at all costs, since they're just weepy people and a dead guy. It strikes me as a meaningless affair tbh. That said, I do move on pretty much immediately unless the death affects me in a practical manner (eg, I used the person as a liaison frequently or s/he owed me money).

[bucolic_]

Originally Posted by aude

Originally Posted by bucolic_   Originally Posted by aude I think funerals are useless interventions that meandering bible pushers do so that way they have closer in some arbitrary meaning to some extensive belief in that there is some one higher and more powerful then them. :o For me, just throw me down a raven and allow the animals a free meal. Right...because funerals have only been around as long as "bible pushers." How many funerals have you been to that sent there dead to valhalla or even the river styx . In the most recent years. I am talking about the modern funeral. When i said that.

Well...I haven't been to that many funerals, but I never saw them as you seem to. I see no reason for an atheist/humanist not to have a funeral, they don't strike me as a strictly religious affair.

[rwyatt365]

	Originally Posted by bucolic_
	Well...I haven't been to that many funerals, but I never saw them as you seem to. *I see no reason for an atheist/humanist not to have a funeral, they don't strike me as a strictly religious affair.

Funerals, like marriages, are social constructs meant to engage the community in a personal "passage" and cement the members together in a common experience. Both have been "conscripted" by religions (both modern and ancient) and "sanctioned" within their various contexts as being good. But the fact of the matter is that funerals are no more religious than taking a crap is. I will, however, concede that death rites can evoke spiritual responses in people - just as mating/bonding rites, childbirth, ascencion to man/woman-hood might, etc... - all are powerful emotional circumstances.

[thecraig]

Originally Posted by rwyatt365

Originally Posted by bucolic_ Well...I haven't been to that many funerals, but I never saw them as you seem to. *I see no reason for an atheist/humanist not to have a funeral, they don't strike me as a strictly religious affair. Funerals, like marriages, are social constructs meant to engage the community in a personal "passage" and cement the members together in a common experience. Both have been "conscripted" by religions (both modern and ancient) and "sanctioned" within their various contexts as being good. But the fact of the matter is that funerals are no more religious than taking a crap is. I will, however, concede that death rites can evoke spiritual responses in people - just as mating/bonding rites, childbirth, ascencion to man/woman-hood might, etc... - all are powerful emotional circumstances.

If I am going to be copletely honest with myself, I think one of the main reasons I dislike (and probably why we INTJ dislike) funerals so much is that they are so Emotional. Public display of emotion, expecially strong emotion, make me very uncomfortable.

[thegnat]

Originally Posted by thecraig

Originally Posted by rwyatt365   Originally Posted by bucolic_ Well...I haven't been to that many funerals, but I never saw them as you seem to. I see no reason for an atheist/humanist not to have a funeral, they don't strike me as a strictly religious affair. Funerals, like marriages, are social constructs meant to engage the community in a personal "passage" and cement the members together in a common experience. Both have been "conscripted" by religions (both modern and ancient) and "sanctioned" within their various contexts as being good. But the fact of the matter is that funerals are no more religious than taking a crap is. I will, however, concede that death rites can evoke spiritual responses in people - just as mating/bonding rites, childbirth, ascencion to man/woman-hood might, etc... - all are powerful emotional circumstances. If I am going to be copletely honest with myself, I think one of the main reasons I dislike (and probably why we INTJ dislike) funerals so much is that they are so Emotional. Public display of emotion, expecially strong emotion, make me very uncomfortable.

Good point. I always feel weird *not* being very emotional at them. Of course I am saddened by the event. And I probably cried by the first time I heard. I'm just rather stoic afterwards at least publicly. And prefer to only show emotion when I'm by myself.

[bucolic_]

Originally Posted by rwyatt365

Originally Posted by bucolic_ Well...I haven't been to that many funerals, but I never saw them as you seem to. I see no reason for an atheist/humanist not to have a funeral, they don't strike me as a strictly religious affair. Funerals, like marriages, are social constructs meant to engage the community in a personal "passage" and cement the members together in a common experience. Both have been "conscripted" by religions (both modern and ancient) and "sanctioned" within their various contexts as being good. But the fact of the matter is that funerals are no more religious than taking a crap is. I will, however, concede that death rites can evoke spiritual responses in people - just as mating/bonding rites, childbirth, ascencion to man/woman-hood might, etc... - all are powerful emotional circumstances.

I can agree with all this. And like others said, they tend to be overly emotional. Actually, I remember when my grandfather died (who I was very close to) the only time I had a hard time emotionally was when he was actually dying. By the time the funeral came around, I'd already reached closure, because he wasn't suffering anymore.

And then when my great aunt died, I didn't feel much of anything, which...I "felt" bad about... Or more accurately, I knew that others might find it odd if I wasn't affected emotionally...

[rwyatt365]

Originally Posted by thegnat

Originally Posted by thecraig If I am going to be copletely honest with myself, I think one of the main reasons I dislike (and probably why we INTJ dislike) funerals so much is that they are so Emotional. *Public display of emotion, expecially strong emotion, make me very uncomfortable. Good point. *I always feel weird *not* being very emotional at them. Of course I am saddened by the event. *And I probably cried by the first time I heard. I'm just rather stoic afterwards at least publicly. *And prefer to only show emotion when I'm by myself. *

Ditto. Although I have not ever reached the stage of having any kind of emotional response at all, even when by myself. I just feel...numb.

[The Rose]

	Originally Posted by thecraig
	What do you think about funerals? Is there much point in going or is it something you need to do to have "closure"? If a coworker you barely knew but worked with every day died would you go? If you could avoid going to an immediate family member's funeral would you?

I have learned to appreciate the purpose of a funeral, or funeral home viewings.

The presence of other people around you when you have lost a loved one is incredibly comforting. They don't have to say anything. They're just keeping you company.

If you attend the funeral/viewing of a co-worker you didn't know very well, it comforts the family to know their loved one will be missed by many people, and not forgotten.

If you have a little story to tell about that person whether it is heart-warming or funny, it's a blessing to that grieving person to hear that story.

The reason I go is for the benefit of those who are grieving.

[thegnat]

	Originally Posted by The Rose
	I have learned to appreciate the purpose of a funeral, or funeral home viewings. The presence of other people around you when you have lost a loved one is incredibly comforting. They don't have to say anything. They're just keeping you company.

exactly. And if you're family I feel like it helps the other family and friends to see you there. Especially if you're family and you were really close to the deceased and everyone knew it, you're kind of their connection. Their strength in a way. Their way of seeing that the deceased's spirit lives on and lives strong. I could see it in their eyes when I was at my grandpa's funeral. They commiserated of course, but I could see that it just wasn't for me, it was for them too. I greeted every single person. I knew they wanted to see me. I hardly said anything. But I shook hands and listened. And that's all that mattered.

[GOD]

There's quite a bit of negative distancing from death I see in the posts.

A funeral isn't a religious thing. It’s a sign of respect and realization that the petty things we get caught up in.... pale into insignificance.

I believe it’s far sadder not to grieve for someone that has died...

For an INTJ a funeral is akin to a large social event and they might not be happy about expressing emotions that everyone has... but, real people deal with real situations.

Some of the absolute best people I have come across seem to have endured the death of one (or indeed both) parents at an early age... I think there's some interesting research to be done there.

[thegnat]

Originally Posted by GOD

There's quite a bit of negative distancing from death I see in the posts. A funeral isn't a religious thing. It’s a sign of respect and realization that the petty things we get caught up in.... pale into insignificance. I believe it’s far sadder not to grieve for someone that has died... For an INTJ a funeral is akin to a large social event and they might not be happy about expressing emotions that everyone has... but, real people deal with real situations. Some of the absolute best people I have come across seem to have endured the death of one (or indeed both) parents at an early age... I think there's some interesting research to be done there.

GOD, I couldn't agree with you more.

Perhaps it's the "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" cliche as for the people that have endured the death of a parent or both at an early age. I really do believe that.

[NephilimAzrael]

I am often inappropriate in funerals. for example, when my maternal grandfather died, I attended the funeral, spent time with my mother reminding her of the humour, intelligence and strength my grandfather possessed and shared with his family when he was alive, I hoped it would reassure her that he lived on in his family. Yet when my grandmother died, I refused to enter the church due to my growing distance to social rituals. The last funeral I attended was for a friend, it helped that I could disassociate from his faith, as he did, and that he was a powerful character. But there was never any closure in their deaths, it was already closed.

[changos]

I rarely go, I avoid them. BUT I try to make the care one my support offering myself for anything they might need.

I don't find it useful for my friends to go to my family funerals either, it is mostly about feeding people and chatting. I don't find any support on that.

[Antisocialite]

	Originally Posted by thecraig To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What do you think about funerals? Is there much point in going or is it something you need to do to have "closure"? If a coworker you barely knew but worked with every day died would you go? If you could avoid going to an immediate family member's funeral would you?

I think it depends on what the wishes were of the recently deceased and if I cared at all about or loved the person. As a kid, my mother forced me to go to the funerals of every person that died at our church. Insane, I know. Now, I don't go to funerals unless the person was a very close loved one. The last funeral I attended was for my father. The one thing I regret about it is that my dad was a traveling man, a trucker for 30+ years, and no one thought that he might want to be cremated and have his ashes spread out over the U.S. As a child I remember him saying something about that. It still bothers me that the family buried him.

While I'm on the topic, I'd like my remains to go to science and organ donor programs. May as well be useful instead of worm fodder.
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[karenk]

I went to funerals A LOT as a child because we went to everyone in our pseudo-cult religious group that died within.... say 2 hours driving distance and we didn't know 99% of them. They mean nothing to me. I don't go. I don't want to have one either.

Edit: I just read the post above mine after I posted and noticed the similarity. ha!

[Monte314]

I am an ordained Elder in my church, and can do funerals. I have only done one; it was not a difficult service to do, and the family and friends really seemed to benefit.

There was a display of photographs showing the person at various stages of their life, doing the things they loved, and being with the ones they loved.

At one point in the service, I opened the floor for any family members who wished to stand and shares some memories they had of the person; this seemed to really help people. Many stood and shared something special to them... mostly small things that would have seemed insignificant at the time... but which had made a lasting impression that will last long after they are gone.

At the end, everybody was smiling. The service had become in many ways a celebration of a beloved person's life, an affirmation of their significance, and recognition that they were not alone in their sense of loss.

You see, it's not the ceremony that makes the difference... it's sharing the loss... and the joy... that another person had brought as they passed through the world.

[True Rune]

	Originally Posted by thecraig To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If I am going to be copletely honest with myself, I think one of the main reasons I dislike (and probably why we INTJ dislike) funerals so much is that they are so Emotional. Public display of emotion, expecially strong emotion, make me very uncomfortable.

This holds true for me as well. And when you're with what people would call a "dysfunctional" family, it can lead to violence. I've been to one funeral(almost 10 years ago) , and a fight broke out over something foolish and it was terrible for us. (my siblings and I) I also agree that funerals are for the living, rather than the dead, and if I am not there to serve the living, then I need not be there at all. Of course it follows that I don't care who or who doesn't go to my funeral (though the war will come and I'll probably be in a corpse pile ^_^)

[weirdel]

Originally Posted by Jezebel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I don't need them for closure. When I'm grieving for someone close to me who died, I want to be alone. I don't want to talk to people about it, and if I do, it certainly wouldn't be a group of people. I'm also not good at consoling other people who are grieving so my presence doesn't do much good for them either and it makes me feel even worse. I find open casket funerals especially disturbing. I don't like seeing someone I was close to stiff and pumped up full of chemicals as the last time I see them. I don't understand why that helps people.

When my Grandmother died, I couldn't bring myself to look at her.. And all my family members told me I should, so I walked out of the room. They all thought that was a horrible thing for me to do, not to look, and to walk out..
It affected me so much to look at her, for a while I thought I should have listened to my family, maybe I would have "coped" better, but there was nothing more horrifying than seeing that.
I was 15 at the time, and now, still, I'm glad I didn't look. I'm glad I remember her in her last days rather than with that face..


L.P.E.

[athenian200]

	Originally Posted by thecraig To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What do you think about funerals? Is there much point in going or is it something you need to do to have "closure"? If a coworker you barely knew but worked with every day died would you go? If you could avoid going to an immediate family member's funeral would you?

I don't really think I would want to go... it's very inconvenient to have to get dressed up and stand there during the whole thing, especially while I'm going through any kind of pain. I understand that the person is gone, I don't need to watch them be buried in order to understand it. I would much rather cry at home, talk my feelings out with a few close friends and maybe a therapist. Going to a funeral is just added stress because of the formality and public nature of the event, and the number of people, in my opinion.

As much as it may irritate people, I'm unlikely to go to any funerals, and have not done so yet.

[notoppings]

I've never been to a funeral, most of my family especially on my mothers side live into their 90's and 100's so everyones still here, the one funeral I must have been taken to, I was to young and don't remember.

I do think that funerals should be a celebration and not a somber event, like Monte stated. People may feel bad but if everyone remembered something that could help to show the family that the person was loved then the survivors may be able to think that the dead persons life was good.

I kind of like those funerals that I've seen celebrated on TV in New Orleans a band playing festive music people gathering and sharing food drink and memories a few tears but mostly happy thought for the dead.

[jadefalcon]

For the short answer, read the bold.

I have never had to go to a funeral, though I have visited a gravesite.

If I were to go to a funeral, I would make a lot of people very angry by not being empathetic for the dead or their families. In fact I would be happy for the person, on a level that A) they are dead and not living in the hell we call life and B) they have risen if they repented and believed in the Lord (but B is for a different sub-forum). This would cause people to be VERY angry with me and I will probably get thrown out. I am indiffierent to the dead- feeling grief for the dead is a trick the mind plays that I am learning to control- it is a natural human emotion. I don't grasp social rituals very well. I'm not going to have a pity party- but I am not going to laugh at the dead guy, either. Respect for the dead and those around me is ideal, but I'm not playing pity party.


edit- dress, speeches and what not are also very annoying. The exception is a military funeral. I may feel some emotion there for the actions and sacrifice they paid rather "their dead and gone".

[eli]

I always go to funerals, more for the people who are affected by the loss and to see the person one last time. I know it's just a corpse, but it makes their death more real. Without it, I often feel like I just haven't seen the person in a long time.

What I hate most about funerals is that you can often see that some people there are much more upset about the reminder of their own mortality, rather than the loss of a loved one. The second thing I hate the most is the speech given by the priest. "He was a good man. Someone whispers in priest's ear. Priest eyes crowd nervously, coughs. She was a good woman." In small communities, it makes sense because the priest actually knows the deceased and can actually talk about them, but not in a modern city.

The funerals I have went to were a mix of the bitter and the sweet. People remembered the good times, but some people still cried because they had lost someone close.

[Darkmist]

That happens in small towns too. I went to a funeral last year for my father in law, who had lived in that town and known most people his whole life. The pastor could barely pronounce his name and only read a short blurb on the back of the pamphlet about him that we all read. She then recited from the bible repetitive passages about Jesus dying on the cross that had nothing to do with my father in law. It was pathetic.

I attend funerals only if I absolutely must to make someone else happy. I'd rather quietly, on my own, remember a loved one than natter on about god and cookies, and coo over the baby of some seventh cousin to the third degree who I've never met before. The only decent funeral I went to was a wake. Remembering a person's contributions to your life through laughter makes far more sense to me than through tears. And booze does wonders in crowd situations with relatives you don't know and don't want to know.

[Antares]

I don't fancy wasting my time at a funeral. There is absolutely no point. If the nice words said contain any truths, then we all know it. No sense being redundant. If they're not, why are we even saying it? With that said, I don't go to funerals; especially if it has anything to do with religion. My uncle broke a couple of teacups at my grandmother's funeral for religious symbolism (it's not Christianity) and I wanted to yell: "They're perfectly functional teacups!" Besides, I abhor the practice of burying the dead. The Earth can be used for much better purposes than housing rotting corpses. I would request to have my ashes thrown into the ocean.

[Caucus]

I don't mind the idea of celebrating someone's life after they have passed..but often, funerals turn into a somber crying affairs. I'm not the type to cry about something I can't change. Crying won't change what's happened in the past. If it were a family member or close friend's death, I would attend their funeral, out of respect. If I were not close (family or very close friends) with the person who died, I probably would not attend their funeral.