[BuShinJu]

Hey,

I just posted to the random thoughts thread and it seems that my post was automatically modified so that the MBTI initials of this other forum I visited were changed from "**** Forum" to "some other forum".

Is this part of the anti-advertising conditions of use?

[Jezebel]

Yes.

[BuShinJu]

No worries,

Kind of took the steam out of my joke though. I'll just think of something more (legally) outrageous. Stand-by.

[Syntax]

I personally think this is more of a hindrance to meaningful conversation than it is a benefactor. Not only that, someone once tried to recommend another forum via a PM and it was censored--which strangely destroyed the entire context of the message. It's one thing to automatically edit public posts...but private messages? That's shady, jez.



I understand your motives but I disagree with your solution.

[True Rune]

Is this evidence of a sekret pact we know naught of? Or just strictness? I remember being scolded in the chatroom for something like that.

[BuShinJu]

It might be a condition of the three advertisers at the top of the page. "Don't remind the introverts there are other forum especially for extroverts"

What spooked me was that the changes appeared to be automatic, like a program did it after viewing the post. Maybe the program dosen't trust the humans.

[TheLastMohican]

	Originally Posted by BuShinJu
	What spooked me was that the changes appeared to be automatic, like a program did it after viewing the post. Maybe the program dosen't trust the humans.

It's part of vBulletin. There's a list of words/phrases entered in the software that will appear as "some other forum" when posted.

[LionsPride]

Certain forums have been added to the filters because of problems that we have had with them. These problems usually fall into two categories: people advertising the forum by encouraging others to go over there and join (or some variation thereof) and cross-forum drama where people come here to post about how some other forum sucks (or variation thereof).

Yes, the filtering of the forum link is automatic and because the forum is being filtered because we have had problems with that forum, do not try and evade the filters or you may end up experiencing the warning/infraction system. Inviting people to other forums or encouraging cross forum drama via PM is also considered against the rules and could land you in similar trouble.

As an aside, we prefer discussion stays at INTJf, so copying some of the content from another forum and bringing it here as part of a reference to a discussion that is here isn't usually a problem, even if you reference the forum it came from. As long as you aren't evading filters to do so, doing it to bash the other forum, encouraging others to 'go there and look at their forum', doing it in every post you can, etc.

[Yhor]

	Originally Posted by LionsPride
	Inviting people to other forums or encouraging cross forum drama via PM is also considered against the rules and could land you in similar trouble.

I'm not sure I'm getting this clear. Is this relative only to forums on the filter list, or any forum in general? I think I can understand the filter list, but to outright declare a private invitation to a friend against the rules, with consequences... it seems against the spirit of 'community', rather than the apparent goal of preserving community.

[Syntax]

Is there a full list of the words/phrases/names somewhere that will be filtered? I'd like to know what they all are so I can avoid the mess that occurs when they are used...

[Storm]

The only thing filtered is other forums, mainly MBTI centered forums. It'll just replace it with "some other forum" so it shouldn't destroy your point.

[Synamon]

	Originally Posted by Yhor
	I'm not sure I'm getting this clear. Is this relative only to forums on the filter list, or any forum in general? I think I can understand the filter list, but to outright declare a private invitation to a friend against the rules, with consequences... it seems against the spirit of 'community', rather than the apparent goal of preserving community.

Originally Posted by Forum Rules

3. No Advertising Advertising bots, propaganda accounts (including the evangelizing variety), and persons who register with the intention of using this forum for SEO or link-dropping will be banned without warning. We ask that other registered users also refrain from engaging in casual or commercial ad campaigns upon the forum. Launching plans for other forums or communities and attempts to gain members from this community for your own are forbidden.

How does it preserve this community for you to invite people to join another forum you use?

[Syntax]

	Originally Posted by Storm
	The only thing filtered is other forums, mainly MBTI centered forums. It'll just replace it with "some other forum" so it shouldn't destroy your point.

Yeah, but if you try to evade the filter(like I did earlier in this thread--I followed the spirit of the rule but not the letter. oops.) then you have to politely ask some moderator to un-delete your post. Which is what I'm doing now with LionsPride...

[LionsPride]

	Originally Posted by Syntax
	Yeah, but if you try to evade the filter(like I did earlier in this thread--I followed the spirit of the rule but not the letter. oops.) then you have to politely ask some moderator to un-delete your post. Which is what I'm doing now with LionsPride...

If the filter is changing your link so it doesn't work the response is to not post the link, not to try and creatively word the link so it still posts. It's only evading when your actually try and get around the filter. A post with "some other forum" in it isn't going to be deleted for evasion.

[Syntax]

	Originally Posted by LionsPride
	If the filter is changing your link so it doesn't work the response is to not post the link, not to try and creatively word the link so it still posts. It's only evading when your actually try and get around the filter. A post with "some other forum" in it isn't going to be deleted for evasion.

Yeah I figured as much. But for accuracy, I didn't post a link--just the name of the forum. Regardless I won't be doing either again. Not that I'm particularly pleased about it...


[edit] btw thanks for bringing the post back and editing it for me LionsPride!

[Synamon]

	Originally Posted by Syntax
	Yeah, but if you try to evade the filter(like I did earlier in this thread--I followed the spirit of the rule but not the letter. oops.) then you have to politely ask some moderator to un-delete your post. Which is what I'm doing now with LionsPride...

Evading the filter doesn't follow any part of the rule. The sites are filtered because linking them is considered advertising. If something you type in is filtered and you then evade the filter with creative naming, you are engaging in linkdropping or casual advertising and your post will be deleted for violating the No Advertising rule.

[Yhor]

	Originally Posted by Synamon
	How does it preserve this community for you to invite people to join another forum you use?

You pretend to not get what I meant, or maybe you really don't get it. Maybe you'd have to understand what a real community is, from experience, to comprehend how that message of restriction and consequence isn't in the 'spirit of community', especially in a seemingly private invitation (no matter the reason).

It's like my jealous ex who just couldn't bear to have me associate with my own friends when she couldn't be there to monitor every word. Yeah, I dumped that bitch, she didn't really care about "us" as a couple, she cared about her self and little else.

By taking the stance of restriction with consequences, it is in the interest of the website, not the community. Do you understand how I mean, now?

[Syntax]

	Originally Posted by Synamon
	Evading the filter doesn't follow any part of the rule. The sites are filtered because linking them is considered advertising. If something you type in is filtered and you then evade the filter with creative naming, you are engaging in linkdropping or casual advertising and your post will be deleted for violating the No Advertising rule.

Do you honestly believe I was advertising when I said something to the effect of "someone sent me a PM with a reference to <some other forum>* and when it was filtered the message lost its entire context."



*this was where I screwed up and tried to hide the name of the forum

[Synamon]

	Originally Posted by Yhor
	By taking the stance of restriction with consequences, it is in the interest of the website, not the community. Do you understand how I mean, now?

Of course the rules are in the interest of the forum. The rule against advertising is also intended to be in the interest in the community and I'll quote stasis's post on this from an earlier thread on this topic:

Originally Posted by stasis

The purpose of rule three is multifold. Its instructive, literal function is of course to discourage advertisement, linkdropping, and SEO. Its applied function goes well beyond this. Along with rules one and six, these were designed to be anti-cannibal, anti-clique measures. Any prompt to troll other forums en-masse, to malign and disrupt the services of other forums on behalf of the community at INTJf, or to entangle and pit INTJf against another forum by enabling political rivalry ("that forum SUCKS!", where 'that forum' sometimes shares users with 'this forum') is the very opposite of useful to us. All of this is destabilizing to a community, insidious really, and we have observed it to tend to follow.

	Originally Posted by Syntax
	Do you honestly believe I was advertising when I said something to the effect of "someone sent me a PM with a reference to <some other forum>* and when it was filtered the message lost its entire context." *this was where I screwed up and tried to hide the name of the forum

Your intent is secondary, the rules are concerned with effect. The effect of linkdropping the name of another forum here is advertising.

You also didn't try to "hide the name of the forum". You evaded the filter to expose the name.

[Elfrun]

	Originally Posted by LionsPride
	Yes, the filtering of the forum link is automatic and because the forum is being filtered because we have had problems with that forum, do not try and evade the filters or you may end up experiencing the warning/infraction system. Inviting people to other forums... via PM is also considered against the rules and could land you in similar trouble.

Without doing it for the purposes of advertising, why?

Say Joe Blogs joins the forum seeking guidance into understanding something that most INTJs are ill-equipped to give balanced guidance on and a member knows of another forum that would be great for that specific problem and privately lets Joe know about it, is that considered infractable and if so why?

	Originally Posted by Synamon
	How does it preserve this community for you to invite people to join another forum you use?

How does it offend the forum to do so if the aim is not to get more members for the other forum but to help an individual?

[Syntax]

	Originally Posted by Synamon
	Your intent is secondary, the rules are concerned with effect. The effect of linkdropping the name of another forum here is advertising.

How effective do you surmise that statement would have been as an advertisement? How would you define "advertising"?

	Originally Posted by Synamon
	You also didn't try to "hide the name of the forum". You evaded the filter to expose the name.

I did try to hide it. From the filter. Sorry, I guess I should have been more specific...

	Originally Posted by LionsPride
	...copying some of the content from another forum and bringing it here as part of a reference to a discussion that is here isn't usually a problem, even if you reference the forum it came from. As long as you aren't evading filters to do so...

But that's impossible...



...and I'm concerned that no one has thus far provided a full list of the websites being blocked. That kind of caginess makes me suspect something insidious. And yes, I'm fully aware of the irony in asking for such a list...

[Yhor]

	Originally Posted by Synamon
	Of course the rules are in the interest of the forum. The rule against advertising is also intended to be in the interest in the community and I'll quote stasis's post on this from an earlier thread on this topic:

How is giving someone (in a PM, who is also someone you are 'friendly' with) an 'invitation' to another site, advertisement? I can certainly respect showing no mercy to those who would gather here, and mob another site, possibly linking them back here... sure, ban 'em, I can't think of a reason not to. But for being friendly with someone you've become acquainted with here, you (you='the rules') threaten consequences for a friendly invitation, it just seems bitter and contemptible. It defies logic to think this is done to preserve a 'community', but seems perfectly plausible that it's sole reason for being, in this specific context, is to monitor or control 'members' into being subject to the rules of this forum solely, and to deny any other medium for contact that could undermine how we as a community interact with each other online. I don't think it's some conspiracy or grand scheme on the part of INTJf, but in this context, it certainly gives an air of a jealous girlfriend controlling her polite and eager boyfriend (or vice versa).

I'm not interested in advertisement related dialogue on this rule, or cross forum harassment, because I agree with those reasons for this rule. All that I disagree with is claiming restrictions with consequences if a friendly interaction travels to another online medium by invitation, for whatever reason when done privately and without going about it in numbers (groups).

[Synamon]

No one is accusing any of you of malicious intent, but as I already mentioned the No Advertising rule is concerned with effect. In the past people have spammed the forum with links to other websites. The effect of those links was to advertise those websites. Some of those links spawned cross-forum drama. Spambots and people engaged in SEO (search engine optimization) linkdropped websites or product names in threads throughout the forum. Some users sent out a whole bunch PMs inviting people to check out the new forum they were starting up. Others sent rep comments spreading the word about a great forum they belong to. A practical solution was found to combat the linkdropping and advertising, which is the automated forum filter. I think I saw it noted somewhere that when the filter was first put in place one of the sites had already been linked more than 200 times.

It was a shame that people felt the need to do all that, but they did and still do, so the forum filter was added which now affects you. The filter does not discriminate, it can't. The filter includes some forum names, product names, and website URLs. The admins add websites to the filter once those sites are deemed problematic. So if you type something in and it is filtered, please do not circumvent the filter, let it do its job. It is unfortunate that some of the context of what you wanted to say was lost, or that the link you wanted to use won't work, but that can't be helped. You will not get in trouble for inadvertently posting something that the forum has filtered. You will get in trouble for circumventing the filter.

[Fox]

I just want to take the time to laugh at my post here vanishing.

It was commenting on another post in this thread. First my post was still here but my text was gone. In place was a reason why it had to be removed. Came back later to see that post gone entirely. Including the reason it. Not to mention I see other posts here that seemed to be okay earlier after one Mod viewing have be edited. It is funny that even the reason why my post was axed can't even be posted. I find that so ironic.

[Synamon]

Originally Posted by Fox

I just want to take the time to laugh at my post here vanishing. It was commenting on another post in this thread. First my post was still here but my text was gone. In place was a reason why it had to be removed. Came back later to see that post gone entirely. Including the reason it. Not to mention I see other posts here that seemed to be okay earlier after one Mod viewing have be edited. It is funny that even the reason why my post was axed can't even be posted. I find that so ironic.

All your deleted posts show the reason they are deleted as well as the moderator who deleted the post. Look again, I can still see your deleted post, it followed post 7 in the thread.