C S Lewis - INTJ, right?

**kazzamunga** · 04-05-2010, 11:44 AM

I've been reading a lot of C S Lewis lately - the way he writes is beautiful, I've never seen a stream of consciousness so expertly put to paper, especially in his 'A Grief Observed'. Check out this quote - how INTJ is this?!

' Five senses; an incurably abstract intellect; a haphazardly selective memory; a set of preconceptions and assumptions so numerous that I can never examine more than a minority of them - never become even conscious of them all. How much of total reality can such an apparatus let through?'

Love it. What do you think about Lewis? Too religious/ preachy? Like the imagery? Surprised that an INTJ could successfully be a devout Christian? Though I suppose it's only a leap of faith, and introverted intuition with extraverted thought can lead an INTJ to commit to this regardless of whether they have 100% of the facts to hand. Unlike an INTP...thinking about it, I can't think of any INTPs who believe in God...interesting, but I digress lol...

**True Rune** · 04-05-2010, 11:57 AM

I think most INTJ and INTP Christians would think something like God over personality preferences. lol Have you read surprised by Joy?

**kazzamunga** · 04-05-2010, 12:32 PM

ha yeah, but i would have thought that certain personality preferences would make it harder to believe than others....I'm sure that has been discussed umpteen times on this forum though...and no, i haven't - is it a good one? so far in the last couple of weeks I've read the Great Divorce and A Grief Observed. Now reading The Four Loves, seems promising as well!

**Delarge** · 04-05-2010, 12:57 PM

Too committed to religious dogma for me to tolerate.

**yoginimama** · 04-05-2010, 01:11 PM

	Originally Posted by kazzamunga To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	'a set of preconceptions and assumptions so numerous that I can never examine more than a minority of them - never become even conscious of them all. How much of total reality can such an apparatus let through?'

Actually that sounds more INTP to me--his concern with "examining"/"becoming conscious of" as many of his "preconceptions" as possible, and everything his limited "apparatus" is forcing him to miss. My picture of INTJs is that, while we're not unaware of those issues, we have more of a tendency to figure we probably perceive as much as we need to for the task at hand. And if not, look, some clever person invented this microscope/telescope/night-vision thingy
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If Lewis was INTP, he'd have to be pretty much the only devout one ever. Like, ever. I wonder how he managed it...

As a child, I loved him, especially the highly underrated "The Horse And His Boy," which was one of my favorite books ever. Re-reading as an adult, I was shocked at how preachy and judgmental he seemed.

**taciturn** · 04-05-2010, 03:08 PM

Introverted intuition. It fits beautifully.

What I am baffled by (annoyed, perhaps?) is the tendency for forum members to decide religiosity for the type.

**Nonsibi** · 04-18-2010, 10:36 AM

	Originally Posted by kazzamunga To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Surprised that an INTJ could successfully be a devout Christian? Though I suppose it's only a leap of faith, and introverted intuition with extraverted thought can lead an INTJ to commit to this regardless of whether they have 100% of the facts to hand. Unlike an INTP...thinking about it, I can't think of any INTPs who believe in God...interesting, but I digress lol...

I have found it fascinating how so many of INTJ's seem to be nonreligious or atheistic. I myself was a cynic for many years, but now consider myself a committed Christian. My agreement towards Christianity was a search of fact, and though most fellow Christians don't think about things the way that I do, I find much of Lewis' method to be similar to my own. I think Lewis' thinking made him a good apologist. Although I understand most INTJ's will disagree with me, my personality is 100% INTJ and I believe it is very much possible to be a Christian while maintaining intellectual integrity. It doesn't surprise me at all that Lewis would be considered INTJ.

**eri** · 04-18-2010, 10:56 AM

	Originally Posted by kazzamunga To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	ha yeah, but i would have thought that certain personality preferences would make it harder to believe than others....I'm sure that has been discussed umpteen times on this forum though...and no, i haven't - is it a good one? so far in the last couple of weeks I've read the Great Divorce and A Grief Observed. Now reading The Four Loves, seems promising as well!

Don't forget that Lewis was a committed atheist for years.
I started reading his non-fiction in college (because my school had it in the library) and also his less-well known fiction- things he wrote for grown-ups, like the space trilogy and Till We have Faces.
I've started reading him again recently; I think what I've always appreciated is his very rational approach, which we don't so often get in Christian writers. Especially about a year ago, since I think I was getting fed up with what I was getting (particularly the things available for women).

I don't know if he was an INTJ or not, but some websites do list him as one.

**Remote Viewer** · 04-18-2010, 10:57 AM

I am deeply religious/spiritual and I love C.S. Lewis' style.

**Titian** · 04-18-2010, 11:43 AM

It's interesting to me because I found Lewis for his early poetry and still appreciate that among my favorites. I went on to read most of his books because I am objective and will consider opinions with which I don't agree. I also read the Narnia books and his space trilogy. I won't make a certain statement about what his type was because I only think it is likely that he was a Ni dominant. I believe you can pretty neatly sum up his own thinking and beliefs in the following quote from Puddleglum:

"One word, Ma'am," he said, coming back from the fire; limping, because of the pain. "One word. All you've been saying is quite right, I shouldn't wonder. I'm a chap who always liked to know the worst and then put the best face I can on it. So I won't deny any of what you said. But there's one more thing to be said, even so. Suppose we have only dreamed, or made up, all those things-trees and grass and sun and moon and stars and Aslan himself. Suppose we have. Then all I can say is that, in that case, the made-up things seem a good deal more important than the real ones. Suppose this black pit of a kingdom of yours is the only world. Well, it strikes me as a pretty poor one. And that's a funny thing, when you come to think of it. We're just babies making up a game, if you're right. But four babies playing a game can make a play-world which licks your real world hollow. That's why I'm going to stand by the play world. I'm on Aslan's side even if there isn't any Aslan to lead it. I'm going to live as like a Narnian as I can even if there isn't any Narnia. So, thanking you kindly for our supper, if these two gentlemen and the young lady are ready, we're leaving your court at once and setting out in the dark to spend our lives looking for Overland. Not that our lives will be very long, I should think; but that's a small loss if the world's as dull a place as you say."
— C.S. Lewis (The Silver Chair)

There isn't much in this that offends me intellectually. I do prefer to envision a better world and I tend to have more loyalty to that vision than I do to the real world that appears to me daily. I occasionally think of gods or symbols of quality in men or the world that have vast potential to help the world I would prefer come closer to reality. I believe Lewis saw all of the "play worlds" that fit certain principles as interlinked. You will see him continually reform the same basic ideas in a slightly different context. So Aslan is not the Christian God but a symbol of that and Lewis was careful to think that there were probably people who followed other symbols that represented the same God.

This is not a particularly mainstream Christian thought. I live in a conservative area and my family are all Christian. Most of the people I've met and spoken with about this subject are under the impression that "Jesus" is the preferred/only name for God and that the King James version of the Bible is the best/only version to read. Lewis has much more understandable statements.

The problem that I have is that I have personally one-upped Puddleglum. After extensive examination of the Bible and Christianity (including non-canon text and research in remaining non-English material) I do not think that they offer the best play world to believe in or the one which most fairly takes in all other benevolent play worlds beneath its wing. I don't mind at all if Christianity should be proven to be right and fits rightly into the real world. I don't mind if either the atheists or anyone else is right. This is all fine and well and when I must deal with concrete evidence that brings me back to this "reality" to live and search for my Overland then I will. But that is what I mean to do with my faith. My intellectual integrity won't let me believe in less than my best vision for the future. If the odds are ultimately against that vision becoming reality then so be it. At least it existed in my mind.

EDIT:

In answer to True Rune's observation I need to clarify that I did not mean to suggest that the Jesus-only/KJV-only mentality is a pervasive opinion. I believe it to be more common than the view held by Lewis but certainly not common enough to generalize into commentary on mainstream Christian thought. I rather meant to contrast it as an opposing extreme to the more inclusive view held by Lewis.

**Melchizedek** · 04-18-2010, 06:23 PM

"Reality, in fact, is usually something you could not have guessed. That is one of the reasons I believe Christianity. It is a religion you could not have guessed. If it offered us just the kind of universe we had always expected, I should feel we were making it up. But, in fact, it is not the sort of thing anyone would have made up. It has just that queer twist about it that real things have. So let us leave behind all these boys' philosophies--these over simple answers. The problem is not simple and the answer is not going to be simple either."

Yes, C.S. Lewis definitely strikes me as an INTJ.

04-05-2010, 11:44 AM	#1
kazzamunga Member [19%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 760	I've been reading a lot of C S Lewis lately - the way he writes is beautiful, I've never seen a stream of consciousness so expertly put to paper, especially in his 'A Grief Observed'. Check out this quote - how INTJ is this?! ' Five senses; an incurably abstract intellect; a haphazardly selective memory; a set of preconceptions and assumptions so numerous that I can never examine more than a minority of them - never become even conscious of them all. How much of total reality can such an apparatus let through?' Love it. What do you think about Lewis? Too religious/ preachy? Like the imagery? Surprised that an INTJ could successfully be a devout Christian? Though I suppose it's only a leap of faith, and introverted intuition with extraverted thought can lead an INTJ to commit to this regardless of whether they have 100% of the facts to hand. Unlike an INTP...thinking about it, I can't think of any INTPs who believe in God...interesting, but I digress lol...
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04-05-2010, 11:57 AM	#2
True Rune Core Member [200%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 8,028	I think most INTJ and INTP Christians would think something like God over personality preferences. lol Have you read surprised by Joy?
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04-05-2010, 12:32 PM	#3
kazzamunga Member [19%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 760	ha yeah, but i would have thought that certain personality preferences would make it harder to believe than others....I'm sure that has been discussed umpteen times on this forum though...and no, i haven't - is it a good one? so far in the last couple of weeks I've read the Great Divorce and A Grief Observed. Now reading The Four Loves, seems promising as well!
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04-05-2010, 12:57 PM	#4
Delarge Member [09%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 380	Too committed to religious dogma for me to tolerate.
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04-05-2010, 03:08 PM	#6
taciturn Member [06%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 269	Introverted intuition. It fits beautifully. What I am baffled by (annoyed, perhaps?) is the tendency for forum members to decide religiosity for the type.
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04-18-2010, 10:57 AM	#9
Remote Viewer New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 20	I am deeply religious/spiritual and I love C.S. Lewis' style.
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04-18-2010, 11:43 AM	#10
Titian Member [04%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 183	It's interesting to me because I found Lewis for his early poetry and still appreciate that among my favorites. I went on to read most of his books because I am objective and will consider opinions with which I don't agree. I also read the Narnia books and his space trilogy. I won't make a certain statement about what his type was because I only think it is likely that he was a Ni dominant. I believe you can pretty neatly sum up his own thinking and beliefs in the following quote from Puddleglum: "One word, Ma'am," he said, coming back from the fire; limping, because of the pain. "One word. All you've been saying is quite right, I shouldn't wonder. I'm a chap who always liked to know the worst and then put the best face I can on it. So I won't deny any of what you said. But there's one more thing to be said, even so. Suppose we have only dreamed, or made up, all those things-trees and grass and sun and moon and stars and Aslan himself. Suppose we have. Then all I can say is that, in that case, the made-up things seem a good deal more important than the real ones. Suppose this black pit of a kingdom of yours is the only world. Well, it strikes me as a pretty poor one. And that's a funny thing, when you come to think of it. We're just babies making up a game, if you're right. But four babies playing a game can make a play-world which licks your real world hollow. That's why I'm going to stand by the play world. I'm on Aslan's side even if there isn't any Aslan to lead it. I'm going to live as like a Narnian as I can even if there isn't any Narnia. So, thanking you kindly for our supper, if these two gentlemen and the young lady are ready, we're leaving your court at once and setting out in the dark to spend our lives looking for Overland. Not that our lives will be very long, I should think; but that's a small loss if the world's as dull a place as you say." — C.S. Lewis (The Silver Chair) There isn't much in this that offends me intellectually. I do prefer to envision a better world and I tend to have more loyalty to that vision than I do to the real world that appears to me daily. I occasionally think of gods or symbols of quality in men or the world that have vast potential to help the world I would prefer come closer to reality. I believe Lewis saw all of the "play worlds" that fit certain principles as interlinked. You will see him continually reform the same basic ideas in a slightly different context. So Aslan is not the Christian God but a symbol of that and Lewis was careful to think that there were probably people who followed other symbols that represented the same God. This is not a particularly mainstream Christian thought. I live in a conservative area and my family are all Christian. Most of the people I've met and spoken with about this subject are under the impression that "Jesus" is the preferred/only name for God and that the King James version of the Bible is the best/only version to read. Lewis has much more understandable statements. The problem that I have is that I have personally one-upped Puddleglum. After extensive examination of the Bible and Christianity (including non-canon text and research in remaining non-English material) I do not think that they offer the best play world to believe in or the one which most fairly takes in all other benevolent play worlds beneath its wing. I don't mind at all if Christianity should be proven to be right and fits rightly into the real world. I don't mind if either the atheists or anyone else is right. This is all fine and well and when I must deal with concrete evidence that brings me back to this "reality" to live and search for my Overland then I will. But that is what I mean to do with my faith. My intellectual integrity won't let me believe in less than my best vision for the future. If the odds are ultimately against that vision becoming reality then so be it. At least it existed in my mind. EDIT: In answer to True Rune's observation I need to clarify that I did not mean to suggest that the Jesus-only/KJV-only mentality is a pervasive opinion. I believe it to be more common than the view held by Lewis but certainly not common enough to generalize into commentary on mainstream Christian thought. I rather meant to contrast it as an opposing extreme to the more inclusive view held by Lewis. Last edited by Titian; 04-19-2010 at 09:40 AM.
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04-18-2010, 06:23 PM	#11
Melchizedek Member [30%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,200	"Reality, in fact, is usually something you could not have guessed. That is one of the reasons I believe Christianity. It is a religion you could not have guessed. If it offered us just the kind of universe we had always expected, I should feel we were making it up. But, in fact, it is not the sort of thing anyone would have made up. It has just that queer twist about it that real things have. So let us leave behind all these boys' philosophies--these over simple answers. The problem is not simple and the answer is not going to be simple either." Yes, C.S. Lewis definitely strikes me as an INTJ.
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