[SmileyMan]

I personally think animal cruelty is worst. I just can't stand seeing an animal being abused in one way or another, it really hurts deep inside and makes me want to torture the person who did it to death. Cruelty against humans (Above 14-15 years of age) is entirely the opposite. I feel absolutely nothing when I see a human suffering.

What about you?

[DeadSpace]

Cruelty in any form against any living creature raises my ire.

	Originally Posted by SmileyMan To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I personally think animal cruelty is worst. I just can't stand seeing an animal being abused in one way or another, it really hurts deep inside and makes me want to torture the person who did it to death. Cruelty against humans is entirely the opposite. I feel absolutely nothing when I see a human suffering. What about you?

So...seeing a child being beaten you would feel nothing? Or a woman being slapped around? a man being dragged through the streets?

[SmileyMan]

	Originally Posted by DeadSpace To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Cruelty in any form against any living creature raises my ire. So...seeing a child being beaten you would feel nothing? Or a woman being slapped around? a man being dragged through the streets?

Of course I'd feel something if it was a child, because there's a connection between a child and an animal; they're both helpless. A woman/man being slapped around disgusts me, but I do not feel empathy, same goes for the man being dragged through the streets.

[Nausved]

Intellectually, I see them no differently. Suffering is suffering, regardless of who experiences it.

That being said, I am dramatically less approving of the suffering of those with little means of defending themselves. The suffering of a child is much more abhorrent to me than the suffering of an adult. The same goes for animals, where I am particularly disapproving of harm to relatively defenseless animals—especially where that harm is without necessity.

I can't vote in this poll because humans and animals occur on the same scale for me, where the suffering of some animals is worse than the suffering of some people and vice versa.

[Jgib5328]

Humans have a much > mind than animals. They will understand their pain and suffering. They just won't be physically tortured, but mentally also. Humans have a mind to understand their pain, animals don't.

[DeadSpace]

	Originally Posted by SmileyMan To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Of course I'd feel something if it was a child, because there's a connection between a child and an animal; they're both helpless. A woman/man being slapped around disgusts me, but I do not feel empathy, same goes for the man being dragged through the streets.

I was just attempting to clarify, you said humans with no distinctions.

[SmileyMan]

	Originally Posted by DeadSpace To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I was just attempting to clarify, you said humans with no distinctions.

Yeah, sorry for that. Just edited my post.

[errrzarrr]

they both are horrible. In both cases there is a unrational, wild, abusive cruel humanbeing being mean with another being. Is just that a human being cruel with another human is worst for me. So I voted Human.

[Circe]

Both are abhorrent- particularly attacks on the defenseless- children, animals, mentally ill. . .

Things like this are just sick.


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[lordrrr]

I'm not answering this becuase I think all creatures should never ever be treated cruelly.

[Nausved]

	Originally Posted by Jgib5328 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Humans have a much > mind than animals. They will understand their pain and suffering. They just won't be physically tortured, but mentally also. Humans have a mind to understand their pain, animals don't.

Do you think it is better to hurt a baby (since they cannot understand or rationalize their pain) than an adult?

[Victoria Silver]

	Originally Posted by Nausved To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Do you think it is better to hurt a baby (since they cannot understand or rationalize their pain) than an adult?

That's a very good question, and makes me think hard about why certain forms of cruelty are worse than others.

The critical factor, I think, it not the victim's ability to understand or rationalize, but its ability to suffer. All normal human beings have a profound ability to suffer, so cruelty to them is always very evil. In a similar way, it is clear to me that cruelty to a mammal is much more evil than cruelty to an insect (if such a thing is even possible.)

As I say, this is the critical factor, but it is not the only factor. Given than a normal human infant and a normal human adult have about the same ability to suffer (and the adult may actually have a bit more, given its greater intellectual capacity), why does it seem more evil to be cruel to an infant? The helplessness factor explains this, I think. This would also explain why it seems more evil to be cruel to someone with a disability, or someone physically weaker or very elderly, and so on. Even if all such persons can suffer to the same extent, at least a healthy, strong, young adult has some chance to fight back if necessary.

[Jgib5328]

	Originally Posted by Nausved To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Do you think it is better to hurt a baby (since they cannot understand or rationalize their pain) than an adult?

You can think of it on two levels. It could be either more humane to kill the baby or more humane to kill the adult. A baby is pretty much like an animal, it can't really comprehend it's pain or much of anything, it doesn't really matter whether it suffers or not since it doesn't have a developed mind, plus an adult is much more valuable to society than the baby is at the current moment, the baby could potentially become valuable though.

On the other side, the baby is innocent and helpless and it's be pretty bad to kill something that was defenseless.

I'd kill the baby though.

[TheLastMohican]

	Originally Posted by SmileyMan To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I personally think animal cruelty is worst. I just can't stand seeing an animal being abused in one way or another, it really hurts deep inside and makes me want to torture the person who did it to death. Cruelty against humans (Above 14-15 years of age) is entirely the opposite. I feel absolutely nothing when I see a human suffering. What about you?

I think this question is more loaded than Ahmadinejad's nuclear warhead arsenal. If you touch it, it will blow up in your face.

I find any kind of cruelty abhorrent. (I consider cruelty to be an unjust act of torment. Therefore what counts as cruelty depends on who the "victim" is, and the purpose of the act that might be considered cruel.)

I am surprised that a person would feel absolutely no emotion when observing cruelty against humans. I tend to feel anger about such occurrences, and I consider that to be a "logical emotion" that is valid for basing certain decisions upon. It is based in a rational and instinctual understanding of human rights and moral acceptibility.

[ethsar46]

I find that seeing an animal hurt effects me more, ie something on a tv shows that then i change the channel cos i just cant watch it. Human doesnt effect me that badly, but its not as if i dont feel anything.

[outrider]

	Originally Posted by Jgib5328 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Humans have a much > mind than animals. They will understand their pain and suffering. They just won't be physically tortured, but mentally also. Humans have a mind to understand their pain, animals don't.

Well, turn this around: animals, as well as young children, older people with dementia, and some retarded or mentally ill people, don't understand pain and discomfort, even when it's "for their own good" (e.g., medical procedures). So I personally think it's inhumane to use physical restraint vs. sedation, anesthesia, pre-operative pain control when performing procedures on animals (I am a veterinarian). And though I know it's sometimes done, I can't imagine causing unnecessary pain to a human who doesn't understand.

I can tell you that surprisingly, some animals do seem to understand pain when you're trying to help. Not all, but some.

Though I think torture, pain and suffering are horrible in any species, I do find it easier to have 100% sympathy for animals - no matter if they are dangerous or unpleasant - than for adult people with their wits about them. Animals are innocent and can't help their circumstances; this is also true for helpless humans.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

The reason we feel more horrified by animal cruelty (and young children) is because these creatures are usually helpless and unable to defend themselves. This seems especially heinous to most adult humans.

[sriv]

I do not care about how much they are helpless or unable to defend themselves. If there is cruelty without reason, then it is equally wrong. I feel disappointment more than anger in these circumstances. Disappointment with the human race if it is a human being cruel.

However, I will lessen my view of cruelty if it is justified. If a person that killed 5 other people purposely was killed, then it is justified. If an animal killed your father and then ran off to eat a deer, then killing it would be justifiable. Torture is almost never justifiable, threats are easier to justify.

[Bluestocking]

It depends on why the human is suffering. An animal or a small child is innocent and helpless and should never be hurt for the fun of it. It's evil to inflict pain unless you're trying to save yourself or help the poor thing. I'd feel the same way about most other human beings, unless of course they have done something to deserve it. I don't enjoy physical violence.

[Jgib5328]

	Originally Posted by Bluestocking To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It depends on why the human is suffering. An animal or a small child is innocent and helpless and should never be hurt for the fun of it. It's evil to inflict pain unless you're trying to save yourself or help the poor thing. I'd feel the same way about most other human beings, unless of course they have done something to deserve it. I don't enjoy physical violence.

What if the adult human being was completely innocent and his/her suffering was unwarranted? Wouldn't it be worse for them to suffer since they have a much higher understanding of suffering? An animal lacks the capacity to understand. It doesn't recognize the significance of its own life, it doesn't understand why it should be upset, or why it should want to live. Animals walk around with little or no consciousness, while being led by their instincts. They don't comprehend the surrounding world, all that matters is their own survival and maybe a few base pleasures, depending on how well developed the animal is. If a bug suffered, would it matter? The bug doesn't have the ability to comprehend it's suffering, all it knows is that it feels pain and should try to prevent it.

[Darkmist]

Since I am not in any animal's mind except the human animal and that is restricted to my limited experience, I can't say how much or how little an animal feels. But humans have this huge network of help one another that other animals do not possess, therefore I sympathize with the animals more than the people.

If a dog bites someone, it is often put to death. (a rather severe punishment I'd say, compared to human punishments. Anyway . . .) If a child bites someone, it is scolded and that's that. Unfair. I cry foul.

(and yes I know that humans protect fellow humans and that this is why the species survived argument, which there are holes in, but I'm not going there because it's off topic.)

[sriv]

Originally Posted by Darkmist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Since I am not in any animal's mind except the human animal and that is restricted to my limited experience, I can't say how much or how little an animal feels. But humans have this huge network of help one another that other animals do not possess, therefore I sympathize with the animals more than the people. If a dog bites someone, it is often put to death. (a rather severe punishment I'd say, compared to human punishments. Anyway . . .) If a child bites someone, it is scolded and that's that. Unfair. I cry foul. (and yes I know that humans protect fellow humans and that this is why the species survived argument, which there are holes in, but I'm not going there because it's off topic.)

If the dog bites someone, it will bite someone else. A child learns not to bite someone through memory rather than animal habituation.

Anyway, this is about comparing human cruelty to animal cruelty. Let us apply in equal terms. The question you should be answering is would you feel worse if the dog was put to death or if the child was put to death from the same sin?

[vkut79]

	Originally Posted by SmileyMan To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I personally think animal cruelty is worst. I just can't stand seeing an animal being abused in one way or another, it really hurts deep inside and makes me want to torture the person who did it to death. Cruelty against humans (Above 14-15 years of age) is entirely the opposite. I feel absolutely nothing when I see a human suffering. What about you?

Naturally you ought to feel more discomfort at the sight of human suffering than that of animal suffering, because humans are of our own species and you so you should be able to sympathize with them more easily, to feel their apparent suffering as your own. I strongly believe that this is what nature intended, but it may play out differently in modern life.

How much cruelty against humans have you seen, in real life, in front of your very eyes? Human suffering on television is very different. I would not be surprised if the sight of human suffering on television did not evoke a great deal of your sympathy, because this phenomenon is seen so commonly on television and in movies that people become desensitized to it from an early age. Animal cruelty is portrayed less often on television (its not very dramatic) and also is seen less often in real life (less animals than people by far). So quite possibly your reaction to animal suffering might be more heightened due to lack of exposure, but this is just a hypothesis.

To really answer that question you need to be way more specific. What kind of suffering? What circumstances - real life, television, etc.? Have you seen this suffering before? How much have you seen it? What is your relationship to the sufferer? What is your mood at the time? Etc.

[Jack]

Whats worse?...Deliberately chopping down a tree, or deliberately gutting a fish?

..Now I'll just sit and wait!

[Victoria Silver]

	Originally Posted by Jack To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Whats worse?...Deliberately chopping down a tree, or deliberately gutting a fish? ..Now I'll just sit and wait!

Assuming your action does not cause either harm or benefit to any feeling being (chopping down your neighbor's tree, for example), I would say that chopping down a tree is ethically neutral. Given the same lack of "outside" harm or benefit (gutting a fish with no intention of feeding it to anyone, for example) I would say that killing an animal is ethically wrong. (Whether the potential benefits to others of the animal's death, which we have assumed here are absent, justify its killing is a matter for debate.)

(I'm assuming that by "gutting" you mean killing, and not just cleaning a fish which is already dead, which would be ethically neutral.)