[azelismia]

	Originally Posted by Synamon
	There isn't significant moderation in the chatroom. You can find the chatroom rules here. The chatroom is an extension of the forum, so you can't post porn links or personally attack other forum members, that's basically all the rules are designed to prevent.

Riiighht.. and that's why you threaten to ban someone for being offended at constant over the top talk about sexual topics going into such detail as anal prep and discussions of anonymous sex.

I hadn't insulted anyone else personally. I had just voiced my opinion that the topic seemed overly lurid (and it was) and that there had been a lot of it recently.

that's not at all heavily moderated. it's ok to talk about lurid stuff you're just not allowed to voice an opinion that it's not a quality topic.

and it has nothing to do with three mods being involved in the conversation. it is also not the same thing as topics about cats or video games. cats and video games may not be philosophy or science but I can't recall the last time anyone was offended by that as a topic. there are plenty of other topics that I am not interested in that are not at all deep as well and I did just tune out for those. the sex topics were all the time. it might change to something else but it would be back to sex before you could blink.

objectification is always offensive and that's basically what it comes down to. it's right up there with racism.

I don't mind being told that I need to live with the topic at hand but to get the power card tossed at me for speaking my mind is really draconian imho.

I really don't see how my finding it a non-quality topic is worse than talking about anal sex in trains with complete strangers who are oh so hot. (this topic went on over three days. Ever time I popped in there we go..)

So what I am really pissed about is being threatened with Banning over this. really, I've been inches away over just leaving the forum all together.

[Storm]

Offensive material is not the same excessively lurid.

[azelismia]

	Originally Posted by Storm
	Offensive material is not the same excessively lurid.

Yeah, I personally thought it was both.

[LionsPride]

	Originally Posted by azelismia
	I don't mind being told that I need to live with the topic at hand but to get the power card tossed at me for speaking my mind is really draconian imho.

Entering an active conversation, declaring how lame the topic is and droning on and on about the lameness and drowning out the other chatters is not welcome. It is for that behaviour that you were warned, not for disliking the topic.

Asking if the topic can be changed, if people would like to talk about something else or suggesting alternate topics is fine. Trying to drown out the active topic because it doesn't interest you or being insulting to those that would like to discuss that topic is not.

	Originally Posted by Nikita
	I've tried to go in a couple of times in the past week and it was basically dead. There were tons of idle mods, but not one of them was participating in the chat. It was boring.

The chat works better if people coming in actually chat.

Aside from the time of day thing already mentioned, sometimes the chat isn't active because it's at a break between topics and no one has started the next topic rolling. Sometimes all that's missing is something to talk about. If there is something on your mind at the time, the quiet bits are often a good time to bring it up.

[azelismia]

Originally Posted by LionsPride

Entering an active conversation, declaring how lame the topic is and droning on and on about the lameness and drowning out the other chatters is not welcome. It is for that behaviour that you were warned, not for disliking the topic. Asking if the topic can be changed, if people would like to talk about something else or suggesting alternate topics is fine. Trying to drown out the active topic because it doesn't interest you or being insulting to those that would like to discuss that topic is not. The chat works better if people coming in actually chat. Aside from the time of day thing already mentioned, sometimes the chat isn't active because it's at a break between topics and no one has started the next topic rolling. Sometimes all that's missing is something to talk about. If there is something on your mind at the time, the quiet bits are often a good time to bring it up.

It is only insulting in the same fashion that the topic was insulting to me in the first place. I didn't directly insult anyone in the room. My being offended might have offended others but what makes your offense greater than mine?

and I did NOT drown out chat. others were still chatting just fine with me voicing my concerns. I was there all of five minutes as was mentioned. Hardly a great disturbance in the over all scheme of things.

[True Rune]

That explains that. I admit that like for 2 weeks the topic would always veer towards a persons weird lack of a sex life.

[azelismia]

	Originally Posted by True Rune
	That explains that. I admit that like for 2 weeks the topic would always veer towards a persons weird lack of a sex life.

yeah, that was just boring though, not offensive. it's not what I was talking about. although it might have been offensive to the person who was the topic of hte discussion IIRC he never brought the subject up. he was always being prodded about changing it.

[True Rune]

It was a mix of both. He'd comment and then the war would start again.

[LionsPride]

	Originally Posted by azelismia
	It is only insulting in the same fashion that the topic was insulting to me in the first place.

I didn't say it was insulting. I was indicating that you weren't warned about 'speaking your mind', rather for the method you chose to do so. You were warned about barging into an active discussion and disrupting the current topic.

FYI for all members: topics will change organically and there is nothing wrong with asking to change the subject, but strong arming in the chatroom like repeatedly calling the topic/chatroom/members lame, flooding, trying to get members to gang up on other members or telling other people to be quiet are all things that aren't allowed. If any of those items are used to 'speak your mind' and it causes disruptions to the active chat, you will be kicked and possibly face a banning for a day. Persistent behaviour will result in lengthier bans.

	Originally Posted by azelismia
	I didn't directly insult anyone in the room. My being offended might have offended others but what makes your offense greater than mine?

Again, offensive is not something we moderate the chatroom for. If people were offended by your comments, tough. If you were offended by the topic, tough. What is more important is that several people already in an active discussion aren't prevented from continuing their discussion because an individual is partaking in the behaviours I mentioned above.

	Originally Posted by azelismia
	and I did NOT drown out chat. others were still chatting just fine with me voicing my concerns. I was there all of five minutes as was mentioned. Hardly a great disturbance in the over all scheme of things.

In the 3.5 minutes before you were there, there was 28 posts on the topic. In the 3.5 minutes you were there there were 36 posts. 15 of them were yours about how lame the topic/discussion was, 13 were responses defending the topic and only 8 posts managed to squeeze through that were on topic. I would say that could be considered disruptive. It was disruptive enough that had you persisted rather than quit, you would have be kicked. Since you did quit, nothing actually happened to you other than someone giving you the heads up that that behaviour would result in a possible ban for the day.

[azelismia]

Originally Posted by LionsPride

I didn't say it was insulting. I was indicating that you weren't warned about 'speaking your mind', rather for the method you chose to do so. You were warned about barging into an active discussion and disrupting the current topic. FYI for all members: topics will change organically and there is nothing wrong with asking to change the subject, but strong arming in the chatroom like repeatedly calling the topic/chatroom/members lame, flooding, trying to get members to gang up on other members or telling other people to be quiet are all things that aren't allowed. If any of those items are used to 'speak your mind' and it causes disruptions to the active chat, you will be kicked and possibly face a banning for a day. Persistent behaviour will result in lengthier bans. Again, offensive is not something we moderate the chatroom for. If people were offended by your comments, tough. If you were offended by the topic, tough. What is more important is that several people already in an active discussion aren't prevented from continuing their discussion because an individual is partaking in the behaviours I mentioned above. In the 3.5 minutes before you were there, there was 28 posts on the topic. In the 3.5 minutes you were there there were 36 posts. 15 of them were yours about how lame the topic/discussion was, 13 were responses defending the topic and only 8 posts managed to squeeze through that were on topic. I would say that could be considered disruptive. It was disruptive enough that had you persisted rather than quit, you would have be kicked. Since you did quit, nothing actually happened to you other than someone giving you the heads up that that behaviour would result in a possible ban for the day.

I didn't tell anyone to be quiet or to stop talking or anything along those lines. I was asking what happened to quality standards as the topic didn't seem to stand up to that. I didn't insult anyone. I disagreed with the topic being one that would meet up to quality standards. you said people were insulted by my questioning of the topic.

I insulted no one. I committed no ad homs. I may of have offended people by my lack of agreeing it was a quality topic but I didn't insult anyone.

I also am not sure why my talking is considered a disruption when you yourself say that topics are fluid. other topics have been disrupted and topic changed thru people talking loudly so to speak and they were not given any kind of warnings.
the topic was merely being changed to if the topic of anal sex (in graphic detail) or public sex were quality things to discuss in public.

I really don't think this is being treated fairly. I do not think I did anything that merits any kind of warnings.

If three mods hadn't been in this conversation I really don't think anything would have been done about it. To me it looks like a power play. nothing more.

we're talking 3 minutes here and I left when it became apparent it was pointless. I didn't keep it up. I didn't call anyone names. I didn't insult anyone. I spoke my mind on a matter. I know I am not the only one who finds this sort of thing inappropriate. I am just the only one speaking up.

telling me to deal with it and stop whining is one thing. to threaten me is another.

I have seen others interrupt real conversations in chat with sex talk. totally out of the blue and then diverting what had been a decent conversation to "real sex" and nothing gets said to them. I would say the force of their conversation was no more than mine was. yet no one did anything at all.


anyway, the topic of this thread is why we don't use the chat feature.

this sums it up for me. lack of quality conversation and more importantly heavy handed power plays by the mods when it's really not necessary. those kinds of games just don't fly with me. I didn't do anything any worse than anyone else was doing in chat.

[Nikita]

	Originally Posted by LionsPride
	The chat works better if people coming in actually chat.

I did attempt chat. It would help if the idle people wouldn't just watch. Voyeurs!

[LionsPride]

	Originally Posted by azelismia
	I didn't tell anyone to be quiet or to stop talking or anything along those lines. I was asking what happened to quality standards as the topic didn't seem to stand up to that.

Those were examples of things that aren't tolerated which I included for the benefit of all members, hence my addressing all members when I started that paragraph. I did not indicate that you had engaged in all of those things. As for asking what happened to quality standards, if the discussion is active and people are engaged, the topic is considered to be fine. Topics are not going to be changed on the premise that they aren't high brow enough. Discussing peoples viewpoints on sex and partners is not considered lurid; there are several similar topics on the forum.

	Originally Posted by azelismia
	I insulted no one. I committed no ad homs. I may of have offended people by my lack of agreeing it was a quality topic but I didn't insult anyone.

And nothing actually happened to you.

	Originally Posted by azelismia
	I also am not sure why my talking is considered a disruption when you yourself say that topics are fluid. other topics have been disrupted and topic changed thru people talking loudly so to speak and they were not given any kind of warnings.

That you are aware of. Other people have been made aware that certain behaviours are not tolerated and that they may experience a one day ban. Topics are fluid and topic shifts will occur. Occasionally two topics may be discussed at the same time. The difference between that and what you did is that you didn't introduce a topic, you introduced "this topic sucks" and when you got resistance you continued. Again, nothing actually happened to you except now you know that showing up in the chatroom and decreeing loudly how lame the topic is will not be tolerated.

	Originally Posted by azelismia
	the topic was merely being changed to if the topic of anal sex (in graphic detail) or public sex were quality things to discuss in public.

More like "no one here ever has a slightly more profound thought then sex huh" or "you know you all want to do it to go with these subjects". Which isn't about whether it's a quality thing to discuss in public, rather about the quality of the people discussing it and is rather flamey. Add in the semi-flooding and you have unwanted behaviour. Disrupting a discussion to tell the people in the discussion that their topic is lame, is still not tolerated, even if 'this topic is lame' is dressed up to look like its own topic.

	Originally Posted by azelismia
	I really don't think this is being treated fairly. I do not think I did anything that merits any kind of warnings.

warning = nothing. Nothing happened to you. You received no 'treatment'. You were made aware that what you did was not something we want in the chatroom. Everyone reading this thread has been made aware that this behaviour is not wanted in the chatroom. The consequence of repeating that behaviour, a ban of one day, is less than your self imposed exile which you have chosen.

	Originally Posted by azelismia
	If three mods hadn't been in this conversation I really don't think anything would have been done about it. To me it looks like a power play. nothing more.

Or, because there were mods active in the discussion your actions were noticed. When we aren't active in the chat we aren't as likely to notice a person strong arming the chat unless people bring it to our attention.

	Originally Posted by azelismia
	we're talking 3 minutes here and I left when it became apparent it was pointless. I didn't keep it up. I didn't call anyone names. I didn't insult anyone. I spoke my mind on a matter. I know I am not the only one who finds this sort of thing inappropriate. I am just the only one speaking up.

And nothing happened to you. No ban was issued, you weren't even kicked.

	Originally Posted by azelismia
	telling me to deal with it and stop whining is one thing. to threaten me is another.

Don't be disruptive to active discussions with discussions about how lame the topic or the people are for discussing that topic. Anyone that does this may be kicked and possibly banned for a day. These are not threats, they are "if you run in the pool area you may be removed from the pool". We do not advise people with how they ought to deal with that, only that they should follow it.

	Originally Posted by azelismia
	I have seen others interrupt real conversations in chat with sex talk. totally out of the blue and then diverting what had been a decent conversation to "real sex" and nothing gets said to them. I would say the force of their conversation was no more than mine was. yet no one did anything at all.

This isn't a reason why what you did should be okay. It is an example of how things can slip by if the mods aren't active or aware of what was going on prior to arriving. We don't have a method at the moment for people to report these things instantaneously or for you to know which mod is active enough to deal with it. For the moment, if a person is found doing this either aggressively or repeatedly, it can be mentioned to a mod in PM after the fact and we can look at the logs to see what happened. If the person was being disruptive, then they will be advised and hopefully stop the behaviour or potentially see kick/bans.

[yondyr]

I'm finding Lion's Pride/azelismia exchange fascinating. My preference is for a chatroom over a forum, for its immediacy, and chance for banter and wit, of course interspersed with odd comments, discussions (which is not to denigrate the permanency of a forum for stating positions and ideas). With a large enough group in the room the dynamic changes and to an extent tends to self regulate. Peer pressure tends to moderate the behaviour of some, if only by ignoring the fatuous and moving on. Ideally, several rooms allow similar interest groups to retire to their own bailiwicks - hopefully in time, numbers will increase. Admittedly my answers to the poll were based on several visits rather long ago.

[ClydeB]

	Originally Posted by yondyr
	I'm finding Lion's Pride/azelismia exchange fascinating.

I am going to say ditto on that. The chats lately are never this interesting when I jump on. Excepting the linear algebra conversations. That one was very fascinating.

[Yhor]

	Originally Posted by yondyr
	I'm finding Lion's Pride/azelismia exchange fascinating.

I find the discussion telling. I don't do chat-rooms often because there is usually no middle ground. It's usually completely immature banter, trolling, or moderator favoritism (most chat-rooms, I've only visited this one briefly). I'd do the chat here if there were subcategories, or a means to have a smaller room to talk to friends, but a wide open chat that's moderated to the point I see in this thread (about voicing an objection to the subject, on grounds of possible rule breaking) would definitely not fit my personality. I'd go into 'Causa fit throwing mode', likely.

I do hope those who enjoy chat rooms enjoy this one, though; I'm just aware that one size rarely fits all.

[Storm]

There are usually about 10 active chatters during busy times. Right now, the chat is not big enough to have dedicated rooms.

Moderation of the chat is minimal. Azzy's situation was rare - where a chatter flooded and flamed the chatroom and was then reminded of the rules and asked to stop.

[yondyr]

Big, big problem is the inherent loner character of INTJ's. Even I was accustomed to sitting back and observing the room while in other chats and only posting pertinent or sarcasm comments while letting the other types 'carry' the room. I did find flooders and flamers hilarious, so revealing of them, even the fights were fun to watch.

[azelismia]

	Originally Posted by Storm
	There are usually about 10 active chatters during busy times. Right now, the chat is not big enough to have dedicated rooms. Moderation of the chat is minimal. Azzy's situation was rare - where a chatter flooded and flamed the chatroom and was then reminded of the rules and asked to stop.

Except I did not flood the chatroom and I didn't flame anyone. 17 lines of chat in three minutes is not flooding that's normal conversation speed. no one even threatened to kick me when I was in the room. it's when I posted here about it that synamon threatened to ban me. she removed her post so it doesn't even appear in this thread anymore.

does it feel fun to demonize innocent people?

[Synamon]

	Originally Posted by azelismia
	Except I did not flood the chatroom and I didn't flame anyone. 17 lines of chat in three minutes is not flooding that's normal conversation speed. no one even threatened to kick me when I was in the room. it's when I posted here about it that synamon threatened to ban me. she removed her post so it doesn't even appear in this thread anymore. does it feel fun to demonize innocent people?

No one demonized anyone, it was explained to you what would happen if you continued to disrupt the chat when you brought the issue up. None of my posts in this thread have been removed.

[Rationality]

I pop in occasionally. I'm a bit shy about starting conversations if it's silent but if I have people to talk to I'll stay for awhile. So far the topics have been pretty varied.

[FeeLyX]

I'm on it during school hours, but the problem is that I live in a different time zone. This means that everyone else is probably sleeping or working.

[Tough Love]

I can't seem to get on it. Woe is me!

[SelfMadeBum]

Another member and I have also been having problems logging on this morning. Seems to be a mibbit issue.

[Synamon]

Yeah, it looks like mibbit.com is down. Time to download one of the IRC clients? There are links for downloading some free clients at the bottom of the chatroom page. Step by step instructions can be found here for setting up Pidgin, KVIRC, and Xchat.

Opera has chat functionality built into it, so if that's your browser you can use it to access the chatroom (I'll put instructions for that in the Chatroom Tips thread I linked above). You can also access the chatroom using Firefox if you add on Chatzilla.

[cheerbear]

I got on it for the first time tonight, and it was actually a lot of fun!

But before this, I was a little...ok, I'll admit it, intimidated to go in because I'm not exactly the most tech-advanced person out there and all this talk of Pidgin/KVIRC/Xchat scared me, plus I had no idea what to expect (a whole bunch of INTJ's in one room? whoa!) I'm glad my curiosity got the better of me

One of my challenges with it is the layout/look. The window was pretty small, and when several people are typing away, the conversation just flies quickly by and I have to keep scrolling up. Frustrating. Is there some way I could change this?

Also, is there any reason to use one of those chat clients more than the others? Ultimately, what would be the easiest? Thanks!

[hide=ps]y'all don't seem very introverted to me! [/hide]