[Chayse]

	Originally Posted by emma4enriquexx To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I find that Americans tend to have more modern or original points of view whereas people from Europe and else where tend to appear more ordinary and old-fashioned.

The ordinary part made me laugh...
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What exactly is ordinary?

So everyone outside of America tends to be ordinary and everyone in America tends to be special?


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I'm special, my mummy said so!

[Okrojsha]

Originally Posted by Luciferi To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I like guns. I own a gun. I shoot guns. I find that people outside of the US tend to think as you do and I am convinced it is because none of you have any personal experience with guns. You've never shot one. You don't know how to use one safely. You watch too much TV that depicts guns as something bad. It is the same with anti-gun Americans. The vast majority of them have no experience with them and are thus very afraid of them. Most gun owners in the US are law abiding citizens. Some of us like to hunt. Some of us like target shooting. Some of us feel like we need to be able to defend ourselves, our family, or our property. We do have laws here to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, but as you know, criminals don't care about laws. They don't walk into a gun store and go through the background checks necessary to buy one legally. Instead, they steal them or buy them on the black market (which usually means they are still stolen property) to get around those laws. Then they commit their crime and toss the gun.

Good for you. Since you're currently living in Europe, perhaps you should be able to understand why an average European gets all "weirded out" by such comments. It's such a cowboy mentality to us, and take notice of this, I come from a Balkan country that had its share of brutal wars. Well, at the very least, I hope you get to eat whatever you shoot at.

Originally Posted by Luciferi To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I used to think they were just singling me out, but then I kept hearing horror stories from other people, too. I get the third degree every time I go there. I have even been detained, fingerprinted, and photographed. They wanted to know how they could be sure I wasn't seeking to move there. They didn't like it when I rudely remarked that maybe they should be more concerned about the entire families of Indians and Pakistanis going through the line than a lone traveler from a Western country. They were also not amused when I told them I would never want to live in their country permanently because they didn't have free speech, guns, or good food. Well, it's the truth. But now I won't fly directly there until I get pre-approved entry clearance, just because I am so sick of being treated that way. From now on, I fly to the continent and take the ferry. They are much more laid back at the ferry crossings.

I'm sorry if it looks like I'm singling you out, but this sounds like a thinly veiled racist comment. It's like something straight out of Orwell's books: All people are equal, but some are more equal than others.

[AtheneNoctua]

	Originally Posted by emma4enriquexx To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I find that Americans tend to have more modern or original points of view whereas people from Europe and else where tend to appear more ordinary and old-fashioned.

This comment also made me laugh a little bit. Do you mean to say that you view America as progressive whereas Europe is stuck in the past to some extent?
I'd only like to point to German and Swiss innovation and designs...
And your comment on 'original' points of view... people are people and they all have their own points of view. America no more so than any European country.


Not entirely sure where this fits into the debate, but around 1% of the American adult population is currently in prison. Now, what does that say about America?

[larkin]

	Originally Posted by FlakeyWafer To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If I had to translate our differences into music.... Canadians would be The Barenaked Ladies Americans would be Hootie and the Blowfish Britons would be The Smiths Australians would be Men At Work I think this explains everything. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I'm really going to have to ask you to retract in full & apologize this instant. I'm quite serious. Take this back! This instant!

[Angel1]

	Originally Posted by AtheneNoctua To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Not entirely sure where this fits into the debate, but around 1% of the American adult population is currently in prison. Now, what does that say about America?

Quick question, what exactly do these statistics include? Do they include people detained until they sober up/calm down/etc. and that are subsequently released (perhaps fined)? I looked at some statistics and they include people awaiting trial; does this percent include them?

I don't doubt that the US has a high rate of adults in prison/jail, but statistics are only as good as the understanding you have regarding them.

[AtheneNoctua]

Originally Posted by Angel1 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Quick question, what exactly do these statistics include? Do they include people detained until they sober up/calm down/etc. and that are subsequently released (perhaps fined)? I looked at some statistics and they include people awaiting trial; does this percent include them? I don't doubt that the US has a high rate of adults in prison/jail, but statistics are only as good as the understanding you have regarding them.

I was merely quoting QI... not sure if you have it in America ... ?

[FlakeyWafer]

	I'm really going to have to ask you to retract in full & apologize this instant. I'm quite serious. Take this back! This instant!

Now why would I do that? I felt I was very correct in my statement.

I also have great respect for Hootie and BNL. I would consider it a compliment if you are an American or Canadian. Now if you were British...I can see why you would be upset.
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[elsdfr]

Americans aren't loud? I was sitting near a busy street corner when I heard what sounded suspiciously like and American accent (from across the street). He was talking on his phone and trying to cross the road. He eventually stopped trying to cross the road and turned around, there were some people near him going about their business in a coffee shop, he threw his arms in the air, dropped his brief case and shouted "Does anyone is this city know where I can get a bottle of (insert a very foreign sounding whiskey) for less that $130?!". A few people turned and looked and it went quiet for a few seconds. No one said anything. The extremely frustrated business man picked up his stuff and announced on the phone "God, I miss home!".... and crossed the street.

[Okrojsha]

Originally Posted by elsdfr To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Americans aren't loud? I was sitting near a busy street corner when I heard what sounded suspiciously like and American accent (from across the street). He was talking on his phone and trying to cross the road. He eventually stopped trying to cross the road and turned around, there were some people near him going about their business in a coffee shop, he threw his arms in the air, dropped his brief case and shouted "Does anyone is this city know where I can get a bottle of (insert a very foreign sounding whiskey) for less that $130?!". A few people turned and looked and it went quiet for a few seconds. No one said anything. The extremely frustrated business man picked up his stuff and announced on the phone "God, I miss home!".... and crossed the street.

And this is supposed to do what? Paint all Americans with the widest possible brush? So because one whiny a-hole complained about something, this means that all Americans are obnoxiously loud and superficial?

"God, I hate over-generalizations!"....and turns off his computer.

[elsdfr]

	Originally Posted by Okrojsha To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	"God, I hate over-generalizations!"....and turns off his computer.

Over sensitive?

I thought it was kind of ironic as it only happened the other day. Pardon me if it came off as a "broad brush" but I don't get to see/meet that many people from the US here and considering this thread I thought my perspective might be an amusing anecdote or counter to what has previously been said. Plus this is what I saw, my apologies if it offends.

No countries citizens act perfectly by another countries standards, I think we all know that and are often embarrassed by how some of our own countrymen act overseas. I know I have been.

[Tough Love]

Americans seem overly obsessed with principles. Regardless of whether they 'work' or not.

British are overly obsessed with how they come across to others IMO. In the circles i hang out in anyway.

[Okrojsha]

Originally Posted by elsdfr To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Over sensitive? I thought it was kind of ironic as it only happened the other day. Pardon me if it came off as a "broad brush" but I don't get to see/meet that many people from the US here and considering this thread I thought my perspective might be an amusing anecdote or counter to what has previously been said. Plus this is what I saw, my apologies if it offends. No countries citizens act perfectly by another countries standards, I think we all know that and are often embarrassed by how some of our own countrymen act overseas. I know I have been.

I am not an American by birth, I just don't like promotion of stereotypes/generalizations. Apologies accepted.

[freeeekyyy]

Americans are stupid, fat, religious nut-jobs. Europeans are all arrogant self-righteous lazy state-lovers.

---------- Post added 02-10-2010 at 11:01 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by Firebrand9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Germany seemed to be a very INTJ country.

You think so? I would have thought of germany as being a more ISTJ country. With the unwillingness to try new things and insistence on rules. Germans, to me, seem stuck in their ways, which is a quality not typically associated with INTJs.

[fayray]

Capitalism has much to do with the arrogance and ignorance. Anyone born after 1950 have lived generally comfortable lives. Our market system is designed to keep people satisfied and quiet while big corporations do their bidding. So if these luxuries are taken from us, we get all pissy and claim that we're entitled to this cushy lifestyle. Obviously, this has gone waaay out of proportion and now most of them are trapped in the illusion of what a human needs to live.
Europeans have a much better education system and in some areas, the teaching of family and community values rank very high. They also take a lot of pride in their cultures and history. Americans, for the most part, are taught to have no culture other than that of a consumer. Unless they're more recent immigrants.
I go to The Netherlands at least once a year and I have to admit, the bickering over Americans and Europeans is getting very outdated. Especially since, economically speaking, they're not that much different than America. If they're so bothered by the way we act, then they should probably keep an eye on where they're headed because it's basically in the same direction. I've seen MANY spoiled, rude, and ignorant teenagers in Europe. Almost as many as we have here.

[Vagrant]

Originally Posted by elsdfr To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Americans aren't loud? I was sitting near a busy street corner when I heard what sounded suspiciously like and American accent (from across the street). He was talking on his phone and trying to cross the road. He eventually stopped trying to cross the road and turned around, there were some people near him going about their business in a coffee shop, he threw his arms in the air, dropped his brief case and shouted "Does anyone is this city know where I can get a bottle of (insert a very foreign sounding whiskey) for less that $130?!". A few people turned and looked and it went quiet for a few seconds. No one said anything. The extremely frustrated business man picked up his stuff and announced on the phone "God, I miss home!".... and crossed the street.

Rare exception. Typically we're only really loud when we're drunk. >.>

	They also take a lot of pride in their cultures and history. Americans, for the most part, are taught to have no culture other than that of a consumer

I don't think this is accurate.

In most of the American South, culture is considered a huge deal. Same in New England and the states bordering Mexico. Yeah, in the rich areas consumerism is encouraged, but not in the less wealthy areas.

[trader7891]

And one thing you really have to respect about the Americans, like fayray mentioned, its their capitalism.

Like a comedian once said, You won't find a Yankee ville in any country, like you will find a Chinatown. But, does that mean we (Americans) aren't there? Hell no, what do you want for dinner? We have Wendys, Mac, White Castle, Burger King, Burger Shack, Carl Juniors, etc etc.

[Firebrand]

Stereotypes begin with a basis in reality. Something that an INTJ wouldn't avoid because it "hits their sensitive nerves".

	Originally Posted by Vagrant To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I don't think this is accurate. In most of the American South, culture is considered a huge deal. Same in New England and the states bordering Mexico. Yeah, in the rich areas consumerism is encouraged, but not in the less wealthy areas.

That's just because they can't afford to be. Give them money and (Obey) watch them mindlessly spend spend spend.

[IrishGuy]

	Originally Posted by trader7891 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	There are still hints of racial unrest, like you have better racial tolerance, but there is still no harmony to date?

Tolerance was emphasized a lot at the schools I attended (mercifully my public schooling was on the better end in terms of opportunities) from kindergarten through college. However, you are correct in stating that there is not much racial harmony. The problem is very complicated, but I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that immigration changes the racial and cultural complexion of the country with every generation. Our cultural/racial makeup is never constant; it is always evolving and being challenged in different ways. Thus, one's ability to tolerate others is challenged everyday. If you grow up somewhere with many Latino immigrants, you might find them easier to get along with, but as soon as you encounter a middle-eastern neighborhood, you might have difficulty since you have limited experience with them and their customs might appear off-putting which may result in outright hostility or more likely a willful ignorance of their existence.

Also, the great influx of poor, non-white immigrants has exacerbated existing gaps in socio-economic status and opportunities between whites and non-whites. Whites are shrinking as a percentage of the population, yet we still control the government (I know Obama is half white/half black but he is the exception to the rule). It's difficult to see how we can have racial harmony without breaking up the "white-man's country club."

If that wasn't complicated enough, racial issues are no longer black and white. The LA Riots in 1992 were notable because it was the first time that a race did not directly involve whites (it involved African-Americans and Korean-Americans). Although, whites did get a lot of well deserved criticism because many white police officers became spectators during the riots instead of working to break up the riot and limit property damage and looting.

This leads to another important point: even if we assume that all current Americans are educated to be tolerant and actively practice tolerance (not true at all, but humor me) the influx and diversity of incoming immigrants who have not been raised under those values, virtually ensures that there will be at least some sort of racial tension. Especially, since the poor (mostly non-white) are usually crammed into the same space, whereas if you are wealthy you can move somewhere where there are more wealthy and like-minded individuals.

	US culture compared to Asian culture is rather different, or rather Singaporean culture, it is perceived in the US, you stay with your parents till you are in college? Then you get your own place and its very independent living? For Singaporeans, the majority is to stay with the parents till marriage? Even after studies and while working?

You are generally correct, although in areas (such as Southern California) where the cost of living is very high and high density housing is somewhat sparse it makes economic sense to move back in with your parents until you're on better economic footing. Also, it depends on your cultural background. Many Asians and Latinos here still keep a whole family under one roof--even some of the wealthier ones. Although it's not as common among the wealthy as they tend to be multi-generation Americans and thus, tend to have a higher degree of assimilation.

Originally Posted by Angel1 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Quick question, what exactly do these statistics include? Do they include people detained until they sober up/calm down/etc. and that are subsequently released (perhaps fined)? I looked at some statistics and they include people awaiting trial; does this percent include them? I don't doubt that the US has a high rate of adults in prison/jail, but statistics are only as good as the understanding you have regarding them.

One big problem is all of the people incarcerated for drug use etc. California has as many prison inmates as college students in the University of California system (approx. 250,000 of each) and the State spends more money on the prisoners than the college students. The courts have ruled/are set to rule that the state of the prisons are unconstitutional due to the high levels of crowding. Programs to re-train criminals have been decimated and recidivism rates are now at (if I remember correctly) 70% from 30% in the 1960's-1970's. Basically they're taking drug addicts and putting them in prison; then throwing them back out onto the streets (addiction is more than mental dependency; it also about habit and familiarity of one's surroundings) where they get addicted again; caught with drugs and thrown back into jail with a heavier sentence. Repeat.

[elsdfr]

	Originally Posted by Vagrant To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Rare exception. Typically we're only really loud when we're drunk. >.>

Forgot to mentioned the nerrrrrdss from the US that I've worked with were not this way and we got along well, very nice guys, extremely smart too. It just feeds into my idea that the extremes of personalities seem to be amplified in comparison to the rest of the world... like everything else in the US I guess.

[trader7891]

Originally Posted by IrishGuy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The problem is very complicated, but I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that immigration changes the racial and cultural complexion of the country with every generation. Our cultural/racial makeup is never constant; it is always evolving and being challenged in different ways. Also, the great influx of poor, non-white immigrants has exacerbated existing gaps in socio-economic status and opportunities between whites and non-whites. It's difficult to see how we can have racial harmony without breaking up the "white-man's country club."

Honestly I thought our countries had a lot of differences, but it appears our problems are also of the same base. As in the 1960s and 70s, we had also massive racial riots pitting the Malays against the Chinese (Two of the largest proportion).

Also heavily reliant on foreign workers, we also get an influx of immigration problems, housing and controlling those housing as prostitution and drinking trickle into those "foreign domitories" right next to where we live.

Our country's leadership is also primarily the chinese version of your "white men's club" although now there are changes though, such as the minorities must have a place within the government parties. Which is rather ironic as it seems in order to show you are not racial, you enforce that a minority representative must be present, <i> because </i> we are multi racial.

But I digress, its a complicated issue, and a very sensitive one at that.

	Originally Posted by IrishGuy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	One big problem is all of the people incarcerated for drug use etc. California has as many prison inmates as college students in the University of California system (approx. 250,000 of each) and the State spends more money on the prisoners than the college

Thankfully, our country's strict drug laws, especially trafficking enable most drug users to be put on rehab, and a strict monitoring curfew. I get the impression that State prisons allow too many benefits for a 'prison'. But i get these impressions from Nat Geo's Lockdown, so I'm not too sure if its accurate. Prisoners have TV and radio, nice bed and their own private rooms.

Call us barbaric, but from my knowledge of local prisons, you get a mat and pillow and join 4-6 others in a cell. Magazines, letters books and canned food are allowed, but are heavily censored. From the show lockdown, prisoners manage to smuggle in drugs at times too? I wonder if their portrayal of the system is accurate, and if you could please correct that.

	Originally Posted by elsdfr To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Forgot to mentioned the nerrrrrdss from the US that I've worked with were not this way and we got along well, very nice guys, extremely smart too. It just feeds into my idea that the extremes of personalities seem to be amplified in comparison to the rest of the world... like everything else in the US I guess.

May I ask where are you from sir?


And to everyone else, not wanting to sound rude or arrogant, but do you know of Singapore? I mean, like everyone knows the US, or England, or Germany, but Singapore, sounds really tropical and images of sun shine and beach huts just pop into my mind and really laid back country. (Which is not btw)

[Vagrant]

	Originally Posted by Firebrand9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That's just because they can't afford to be. Give them money and (Obey) watch them mindlessly spend spend spend.

Wouldn't anybody who is new to handling wealth do the same?

It takes a good upbringing to spend wisely. Not many cultures teach children directly about how to handle money. The only culture I know that actively teaches wise money handling is Jewish culture, and that's primarily because of their history.

[Hjordis]

Originally Posted by trader7891 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Thankfully, our country's strict drug laws, especially trafficking enable most drug users to be put on rehab, and a strict monitoring curfew. I get the impression that State prisons allow too many benefits for a 'prison'. But i get these impressions from Nat Geo's Lockdown, so I'm not too sure if its accurate. Prisoners have TV and radio, nice bed and their own private rooms. Call us barbaric, but from my knowledge of local prisons, you get a mat and pillow and join 4-6 others in a cell. Magazines, letters books and canned food are allowed, but are heavily censored. From the show lockdown, prisoners manage to smuggle in drugs at times too? I wonder if their portrayal of the system is accurate, and if you could please correct that.

That would depend upon their security level. I'm not an expert, but minimum security prisoners can watch television set to preset channels in the common area, but most can't. And this I'm even less certain about, but I think only the dangerous criminals get their own cell. (Anybody who would know better feel free to confirm/deny/expand upon this.)

As for drugs, (and this is all second hand anecdotal evidence) a big part of the problem seems to be that the prisoners get the corrections officers to do favors for them: at first, things that seem harmless, but then they have that and can get the officer fired, so they blackmail them into doing bigger things like smuggling drugs. And they can be smart about it if they smuggle them in themselves. Again, it would probably depend upon the security level how often this occurs.



And yes, I know about Singapore.
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It's rather notorious, actually. Well, I'm more into East and, more recently, South Asia, so I don't know much about Southeast Asia(or West Asia/the Middle East, for that matter.)

[Ytterbium]

	Originally Posted by zibber To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Europe and America share the stereotype of treacherous white imperialist men.

...on white horses.
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[seraphicharm]

	Originally Posted by trader7891 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And to everyone else, not wanting to sound rude or arrogant, but do you know of Singapore? I mean, like everyone knows the US, or England, or Germany, but Singapore, sounds really tropical and images of sun shine and beach huts just pop into my mind and really laid back country. (Which is not btw)

Singapore is a large city with strict laws that is very prosperous, at least that was (and still is) my impression for many years. The most common 'example' I heard as a kid was one couldn't spit on the sidewalks. (This seemed to cause great distress among the boys. lol) I've been learning quite a bit more about Singapore lately, very interesting.

[elsdfr]

Do they still lash people in Singapore?