[Luciferi]

In the "what not to say to an INTJ" thread, a lot of people remarked that they didn't like being told that they are "not as smart as you think you are" and someone else wondered if any INTJs actually thought of themselves as having average or less than average intelligence.

I would imagine that most INTJs not only think they are smarter than the average person but actually are. I don't know if there is any literature on the subject, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to me to think that INTJs end up being INTJs partly because of being intelligent.

So, vote! Do you think you are of above-average intelligence or not?

[elsdfr]

Ahh, "intelligence" and the INTJf, will the topics and ego stroking ever end?

[Warrior]

Usually when I get into this kind of conversation, I find that the "smart" people tend to just happen to have a particular interest in, talent for, or experience with the subject in question. I am told at work I am smart, but I have been around the industry for almost 15 years. The laws of physics have not changed much in that time and I enjoy learning about the technical nuances of the industry that others gloss over. Put me in a room with a bunch computer guys talking about computers, code, and IP mess, though I may be able to follow the conversation to some degree, I will be bored out of my mind and probably appear to be the dumbest person around. Practically anyone will be "smart" in their particular area.

[Synamon]

	Originally Posted by Luciferi To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I would imagine that most INTJs not only think they are smarter than the average person but actually are. I don't know if there is any literature on the subject, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to me to think that INTJs end up being INTJs partly because of being intelligent.

You are
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Most people think they are
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

[Still Standing]

	Originally Posted by Luciferi To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So, vote! Do you think you are of above-average intelligence or not?

I didn't "think" I was until I took an on-site Mensa test that put me in the top 1%.

[rwm4768]

In academic settings, yes. In social settings, no. In practical settings, no.

If this is referring solely to academic settings, then I do believe that I am smarter than most people. This is mainly just due to test-taking ability, though (mainly IQ). IQ is not necessarily the greatest measure of intelligence. It recognizes more your ability to see patterns and use logic to answer question, which by the way, sounds a lot like the INTJ description.

Moreover, I know I saw somewhere when I was reading about the types that INTJs tend to have above average IQs. Therefore, it does not surprise me that many of us consider ourselves smarter than most people. If the variable being measured is IQ, it is likely true.

I just looked at the article on illusory perception, and that actually makes a lot of sense. Of course, according to that article, we must all have below average intelligence when we think we are smart.

Come to think of it, I can identify a little bit with the idea of underestimating intelligence with an above average IQ. For the longest time, I did this, but when I noticed that I was getting better grades on assignments and tests than most of my classmates while putting in less work, I started to realize that I must be smarter.

I remember that during my freshman year of high school, I was sure that I was going to get B's in all my honors classes. I thought I was just smart compared to the average in my middle school classes. Of course, I adjusted this assessment when I realized that not only was I not getting B's, but I was often receiving the top grade in nearly every class.

However, I still wonder if I have a tendency to underestimate my practical intelligence. Every time I say I suck at practical things, other people tell me that I don't, but I still think I do. Maybe that's caused by this effect.

[phej]

	Originally Posted by Luciferi To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So, vote! Do you think you are of above-average intelligence or not?

I used to (childhood arrogance). The lack of a good quantitative measure of intelligence prevents me from comprehending the question. From my own perceptions, I'm stupider than some and I'm smarter than some; I haven't tallied a count to estimate if I am or not.

[Yhor]

In the 'real world', I'm sure I'm a bit above average, as tests and personal experience seems to point in that direction.

Around here, I feel a lot more 'average', maybe a little below given certain subjects to measure against. For a lot of people 'here', forums like this one may be their gauge for determining 'intelligence', and for others, it may be the 'real world'. I voted on the latter.

Also, I agree that the subject matter has a lot to do with how 'smart' a person may be.

[Luciferi]

Well, when I asked the question, I was thinking in more general terms than something as specific as certain subject matters, etc.

What I had in mind was more of an overall aptitude for learning, problem-solving, seeing the bigger picture, understanding causes and effects, and just generally being able to think things through in ways that maybe a lot of other people struggle to do or are incapable of doing.

I think there is a difference between intelligence and knowledge. If you are measuring how smart you based on how much you know versus how much someone else knows, is that really a fair assessment of which one of you might know more or be capable of innovating more given the same talents and the same life circumstances?

Someone who knows a lot about something might have really struggled to get to the point they are at in their learning while someone who knows less or nothing at all but is smarter would need considerably less time to achieve that same level of knowledge.

As an example, I know a lot of people who are much better versed in the particulars of politics than I am. They are your typical policy wonks- reading anything and everything about whatever tidbit of policy that interests them and they can spout off facts and figures like you wouldn't believe. You can't get into an argument with them about it by trying to compete with your own facts and figures because they know so much more. But a lot of these people are not what I consider to be smart people. Some of them are just downright dumb. They may know a lot, but the way they have put together the information they have is flawed and even someone who doesn't know as much, but is smarter, can follow their reasoning and recognise that the conclusions they come to are just plain wrong or ridiculous.

[True Rune]

I voted yes, it's not really a big deal.

[Theaetetus]

I'm not smarter, I just seem to know more than most and am better at applying it. In turn, I'm below average in 'people' intelligence. At least, that's what I tell myself to keep the ego down. I couldn't give an unbiased answer.

[Takeru]

	Originally Posted by elsdfr To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Ahh, "intelligence" and the INTJf, will the topics and ego stroking ever end?

Exactly.

I see myself as above average smart as well as stupid.

[admittedheretic]

I know I am more intelligent than most people by their own definition, but ultimately a measurement of intelligence is subjective. I think largely because I have an autistic spectrum condition I excel in areas that most do not, but I also have some difficulties which make me seem like an idiot savant at times.

[Causa Mortis]

I think I am intellectually gifted in the academic sense of the term.

I think my social intelligence is below average. I think my intrapersonal intelligence is very low. So cumulatively, I think my overall intelligence is average.

[therealdrag0]

Intelligence is computing speed, the ability to learn fast.
I highly doubt INTJ's are smarter than others.
I think that because intelligence is TOO OFTEN coorellated with knowledge there is a perceived increase in intelligence among INTJ's because we like systematizing and knowledge and downplay emotions/emotional things and are better at being objective. But this is unrelated to mental computing power, we just have a mental approach that lends itself to thinking, but our horsepower is not higher.

^ that is all my speculation. I had my psychology teacher give me a professional IQ test senior year of high-school and got ~133; so I AM above average. But I know many INTJ's that are not, albeit they are strong workers who appreciate learning and exploring ideas.

[Anhedonic Lake]

People say I am well above average inteligence,but I make stupid decisions sometimes. Maybe it's a personality trait. I don't think INTJs would make such errors based on emotions and impatience.

[Aristocrat Porn]

Poll speaks for itself. Keirsey would find it quite amusing to see this phenomenon (but nonetheless predictable).


I guess some intjs cling to this desperately because they are insecure and this gives them something to hold on to. "At least i'm intelligent.."


Guess what, some of you are in the 49% that are of below average whether you like it or not. Let's see how long it takes us before a substantial number comes clean on it.


It's nothing to be ashamed of if you are a balanced human being who knows theres a lot more to life than intelligence. But hey that's just my opinion on life.

[azelismia]

Here is an old thread on this subject. Intelligence is highly subjective at this point. there is no solid way of testing it and it is not even agreed on what exactly it means at this point.


To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


there is a chart of types by giftedness but one has to remember that gifted does not necessarily mean high IQ and high IQ also doesn't necessarily mean smarter than average, it just means you are more likely to perform well when tested on the subject matter in an IQ test. Some amount of education is required rather than testing innate thinking, reasoning and learning abilities.


To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[Loq]

I think average. Some people I know consider me very intelligent, but only because I have a good memory for useless trivia and appear aloof, so they think I think I'm above them. I'm not intellectually "gifted", I don't ever recall being unchallenged at school or anything. I have a wide range of interests and am quite good at a number of things, but not outstanding at anything. Also my people skills are quite poor. So I'd consider myself average really.

[Sxq]

I put above-average, at the risk of sounding arrogant.
I know that intelligence is extremely subjective. I am probably below average in terms of emotional/social intelligence.

As far as logic/academics/not making bad decisions in general go I believe that I am above average. I was diagnosed as gifted, unchallenged by school, etc.

[shadrag]

Without further defining smart, the whole poll is relatively worthless IMHO.

INTJ are "smart" because of the way we think/intuit. It allows the solving of problems BEYOND what IQ would lead you to believe.

[urglefloggah]

INTJ have a skill set which our society has labeled as correlating to intelligence. By societal standards, then, yes.
There are two problems.
First, what is "smart?" We have logic skills. But socially and emotionally, we are less than outstanding. The answer is dependent on the factor being measured.
Secondly, INTJ are not all the same. Such a broad generalization about the intelligence of so many people is more than likely going to fail when tested.

[Carpe Diem]

If you correlate "intelligence" with IQ, then most likely I would float around some number above 100. I do not, however, consider myself intelligent; there are a lot of things I don't know and a lot I do not understand.

[w1indse7]

I think I am average, but I voted above average... Its bad, but I often have an elitist mentality.

[brandon]

Intelligence. Subjective beyond comprehension and as arbitrary as picking something to eat off the buffet...blindfolded. Intelligence is weighted by the perceived and realized value that can be achieved by it's utilization. I have yet to find a more suitable measure of intelligence other than simply the ability for a being to adapt to a given situation or environment. Perception and the opinion of a majority seem to give intelligence it's relevance. I am naturally skeptical of both.