[fluffy pillow]

so i just finished watching episode 141, in which turns out that itachi had a elaborate plan all for the sake of his little brother (sasuke).

i was wondering which myers briggs type both sasuke and itachi are. i was thinking itachi is the infj (the protector).

oh and itachi says something quite interesting which i found to be very fascinating. he says "in order to survive, we cling to all we know and understand. and we label it reality. but knowledge and understanding are ambiguous. that reality could be an illusion. all humans live with the wrong assumptions. isn't that another way of looking at it? that sharingan (his eyes) how much can you actually see?"

[edit]
shikamaru is the INTJ of naruto?

[Double Victory]

I wouldn't call Sasuke INTJ at all. He's waaaay too caught up with revenge, even when it's completely irrational. Incidentally, Sasuke is my least favorite character of the series, and I wish he would just die already. I'm not good at typing people, though, so I couldn't tell you what they're most likely to be.

It wouldn't be manga without profound revelations. Too bad Sasuke never learns anything.

[fluffy pillow]

Originally Posted by Double Victory To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I wouldn't call Sasuke INTJ at all. He's waaaay too caught up with revenge, even when it's completely irrational. Incidentally, Sasuke is my least favorite character of the series, and I wish he would just die already. I'm not good at typing people, though, so I couldn't tell you what they're most likely to be. It wouldn't be manga without profound revelations. Too bad Sasuke never learns anything.

yea but sasuke seems like he always has a plan haha. but i guess your right. too irrational.

oh fml lol i totally forgot about the real INTJ of naruto... shikamaru!!!

[burazekun]

I dont think that Shikamaru is a INTJ. He's much more sensory. Though I think the in and j fit, j can be replaced easily with p at times, in fact p to often. It's not till later he takes more pride in his work. But if I had to say, it'd be INTP.


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[defyall]

Shika is NOT an INTJ - just because he's labeled a "genius" doesn't mean he's NTJ - I'd peg him for more of a NTP type myself..."troublesome", LOL.

KAKASHI is the INTJ of the series - intelligent, reserved, antisocial, scheming, sharply critical, fanatically loyal, extremely competent, with a massive dark side...dear kami, he's a walking poster child for the coolness of INTJ-types.

[True Rune]

The bug guy is INTJ too..

[Vagrant]

Kakashi is an INTJ -- his behavior is anti-social and awkward, but when **** hits the fan, he knows exactly what to do.

Shikamaru seems to be ENTP. He doesn't strike me as anti-social, just a little reserved.

Naruto seems to be EXFP, leaning towards N.

Sasuke strikes me as one with limited vision (Kakashi could see what was coming a mile away). Most likely an ISTJ.

Itachi is some kind of NJ -- we don't see him enough to really decide.

Sakura strikes me as ESFJ.

Tsunade seems ENTJ.

[songofcalamity]

Wait... I know I saved an Itachi quote, because it find it very liberating. He seems like an INxJ.

"People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That’s how they define “reality”. But what does it mean to be “correct” or “true”? Merely vague concepts … their “reality” may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?"
—Uchiha Itachi

Shikamaru: INTP, I don't know he has always strike me as an INTP... especially during the Chuunin battle he fought with Temari.

Gaara: At the beginning of the series, I think he was an ISTJ. What's with him talking about sensory cues... taste of blood and etc. ... but he was then mentally unstable... so I am not really sure what is his type now.

Sasuke: ISTx
I don't really notice him.

Naruto: ENFP

Hinata: seems like an ISFP to me.

[Takeru]

I wonder about Neji.

He seems kind of INFX.
Had hatred towards Hinata and the first family.
Severe hate for the branding on his forehead which prevents betrayal against the first family.
Worked extremely hard to show who was better out of the family line.
Was sort of blind until the information about Neji's father was presented to Neji.
Sort of had a superiority complex against Naruto at first.

When a goal is presented that an INFx wants, typically they'll continue it for as long as the job isn't finished.

Things got better with Hinata's father and Neji and we see them practicing a lot more with one another.

When they see a truth, it typically changes their perspective on things.

[True Rune]

Neji is often seen as an ISTJ because of his faith in the system and inability to think outside the box. Most of the ninjas are introverted, and most of them are probably sensing.. Naruto especially is a SP type.

[Thrifty]

I'm using my knowledge of Socionics to type these characters; and then merely, roughly "translating" them to their MBTI equivalents via functional preference:

Naruto - ESFP
Sakura - ENFP
Sasuke - ISFJ
Kakashi - ISTP
Itachi - ENTJ
Kisame - ESTP
Orochimaru - ENTP
Kabuto - INFP
Shikamaru - INTP
Jiraiya - ENFJ
Tsunade - ESTP
Gaara - INFJ
Temari - ESTJ
Neji - ISTJ
Hinata - ISFJ

An INTJ in Naruto would be Sai.

[An Ho]

Shika is not INTJ for sure, he has only one prominent skill with shadows, a typical INTJ must find interest in something new and Shika seems having no desire to learn at all though he's very intelligent.

As someone has said before, I think Kakashi and the bug guy are INTJs

Both Sasuke and Itachi IMO are INFJ, they seem cool outside but actually too emotional.

[burazekun]

Itachi is no way extroverted. And I dont think shikamaru is either. Both are the type to spend most their time thinking in their own heads. Rarely annouce anything unless nessesary. Shikamaru is only explaining things because his role requires it. Itachi is definately a J type though, but at moments I think he reflects more on his emotions then on thinking.

[Outdoorwhale]

Ehh....overview

Itachi:

E/I: Does not like to be around others, quiet, loner, avoids/spends little time at meetings
S/N: Foresaw what the rebellion would do, foresaw what Sasuke would do, planned on how to manipulate Sasuke but failed to due not taking details in(I just want you to hate me), implanting that black fire into Sasukes eyes during death for Madara. Uses Ni rather than Ne, given how he fights.
T/F: He did was was right for Konoha and Sasuke. In reality it was highly illogical and irrational. I mean he KILLED his entire family+clan, to save the village and his brother. He's a Fe user, rather than a Fi, given his reasons/feelings towards it. He died for them.
J/P: J, no question about it.

Itachi=INFJ

Sasuke is damaged/unhealthy:

E/I: Isn't really a loner, but forced to be one. Before the whole incident he liked to be around his family and others. He was just smug, and thinks he's better than others. He only turned "I" during stress. Before Itachi came back, he was shifting back.
S/F: He's an S without question. Time after time he takes risks and doesn't think of the consequences(or doesn't care). He focuses on clear goals without seeing the grand scheme of things. Such as the why Itachi did what he did. He was also very into the Uchiha way(police, milesones, Uchiha pride).
T/F: Goes on what he thinks, not feels. He can't understand why Itachi did what he did, so, logically, be blames Konoha. From which, gets emotionally wrapped up in it. He tends to use very clear, efficient attacks, unlike Itachi, which tend to me more linear(ST). His Te, makes him focus on the external world of which he's trying to "set right" by destroying Konoha. He gets emotional towards his goal.
J/P: J. He's organized, has goals of what he is going to do, stubborn towards them...etc.


He is more than likely a ESTJ, but given the extreme anger/stress is forming a INFP shadow.

[Thrifty]

Hey, I can rationalize an orange into an apple but that don't make it so, Joe.

Your qualms are reasonable though; but I assure you that those are their types. There comes a point where you realize that the preferences don't work as they should, and that the functions are the real deal. Itachi is Te + Ni (ENTJ) and Sasuke Fi + Se (ISFJ -- which have Fi + Se and not Si + Fe). Anyways, I'm not really interested in explaining anything further.

[Outdoorwhale]

1) Itachi uses Ni-Fe. He does not use "Te" as you say, which makes him INFJ.
2) Sasuke is damaged, so his type is blurred. But, he uses Te-Si more often. Which makes him ESTJ.


If Itachi used Te-Ni, his actions would be different. Itachi based much of his actions on foresight into the future, and his feelings towards his brother. The way Itachi did things could be considered Te, however his Fe is what drives him. His connection to Konoah and Sasuke is far more than Ni as an 2nd function. He can not be Te and Ni and do what he did with those reasons, they don't make sense.

If Sasuke used Fi-Se his actions would also be different. Sasuke only becomes Fi when stressed or forced to confront himself. Most of the time he's in Te-Si mode and wanting to kill Itachi, while focusing on the past/Uchiha legacy. Itachi gives him the legacy back, and allows him to rebuild it. However, once he learned of Itachi's real goal; his unhealthy mind found it easy to become INFP(Fi-Ne) and blame Konoah. So when he became normal again, he simply had his Te-Si refocused. He always did this after every loss/extreme stress.

3) Explain your views.

Originally Posted by Thrifty To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Hey, I can rationalize an orange into an apple but that don't make it so, Joe. Your qualms are reasonable though; but I assure you that those are their types. There comes a point where you realize that the preferences don't work as they should, and that the functions are the real deal. Itachi is Te + Ni (ENTJ) and Sasuke Fi + Se (ISFJ -- which have Fi + Se and not Si + Fe). Anyways, I'm not really interested in explaining anything further.

[Thrifty]

You see; the problem here is that we differ on our approach. That's why I warned that I wasn't using MBTI to type the characters (as I stated; I used socionics -- perhaps it is my fault in the sense that I should use MBTI, being this an MBTI website and all, but I can't help using what I know and I find effective). As we differ in the methods, we're not going to get where we're coming from, and our debate would prove fruitless. What you're asking of me is to explain in a flash a ton of stuff that can't be explained that quickly and that easily. If this is what you'd like me to do, it would help tremendously if you asked very determinate questions. Now, I'll do what I can:

First of all, a revelation: introverts in MBTI have an incorrect functional preference/order. Example: INTPs are Ni dominants, not Ti dominants. They also like Se + Fi (ESFPs like Naruto), not Fe + Si (e.g. Maito Guy = ESFJ).

	Originally Posted by Outdoorwhale
	2) Sasuke is damaged, so his type is blurred. But, he uses Te-Si more often. Which makes him ESTJ.

Sasuke is just an emo kid, and while you could argue that he is "damaged", etc, I think that simply his primary motivation is how he feels about things. His "subjective feelings" towards things/people, and this one of the themes of Fi. He seeks revenge, and this is a typical Fi+Se "gone wrong" theme. He changes his mind constantly as his understanding of the morality of the situation changes (revelations about Itachi, etc), and that is what drives him (this is all Fi). Another example of an ISFJ that perhaps you are familiar with is Shosanna Dreyfus, the protagonist of the movie Inglorious Basterds. Just so you can see that ISFJ's despite "being sensors", pack a punch. Another one is Rei Ayanami from Evangelion. One is more focused on Se and the other on Fi. What you are attributing to Te (and thinking that Sasuke is ESTJ as a result) is in fact Se, "power sensing" (I like to call Si "background sensing" -- which is more of low-key thing, this "heaviness" that ESTJs have). Te has to do with plans, procedures, objectivity, the logic of the world, information, efficiency.. etc. His Te is weak. Strong Te types (either base of auxiliary) are blunt/dry, and typically not driven by their emotions.

On the other hand, Itachi's Te is not weak at all. Do you remember those episodes when he and Kisame visit konoha? Take note of the following:

- He scolds Kisame repeatedly (an ESTP) when he tries to divert from the main plans (Te -- and Ni = goal) because of Kisame's penchant to jump right into action and be confrontational with Se with no regards to the consequences (Ni). One of his main complaints is that what Kisame is doing is "inefficient" (this is a trademark Te statement) or "unnecessary" (another Te statement). Te types like to optimize the usage of resources, and any kind of waste annoys them.

- He's always trying to predict his opponents' moves, in order to be one step ahead. He's very strategic. His way of fighting is very similar to Shikamaru's (props to whoever noticed the similarity between them). Foreseeing = Ni. However, they differ a little in their style; Itachi is much more active. He's always setting up things and trying to "trap" his opponents. Ni auxiliary types (ENxJs) like to "set up" scenarios where they can predict what is going to happen, so that they can be in control of the situation (EJ).

- He is capable of producing a lot of aggression in a short amount of time, but his endurance is low (in contrast to Kisame, who being a Se dominant type has a lot of endurance, perhaps this is one of the reasons they were paired together). I know this from socionics; but this means that he has tertiary Se (that's how the tertiary works, especially in the case of ENTJs).

- He has a "hazy", aloof demeanor that points to him being a Ni type. He's very distant, dry, and doesn't like to get involved with people too much and this means that he doesn't like Fe (external/objective feelings = the feelings/emotions of other people). His confrontation with his clan points to him not liking neither Si or Fe, both of which cause adherence to groups. He's sort of a rebel. However, he has very strong personal values (Fi) that he doesn't like to break, what ultimately causes his demise (his attachment to his brother. Attachments = Fi). Hence, Fi > Fe.

- Many things are not consistent with him being an extrovert, you say? True, but ENTJs are still NTs. ENTJs are very similar to INTPs, in the same way that INTJs are similar to ENTPs ... because in fact they have the same functions, only that the other way around. He's focused on his auxiliary Ni (instead of dominant Te), what makes him aloof like that. That's also his nature, simply. Extroversion =/= gregariousness.

I've seen Itachi typed as all sorts of things. I've noticed that INFJs in particular want to claim him as one of their own... sorry, but he's a blatant NT, and seeing he is not INTJ, ENTP or INTP, and the only one left is ENTJ; that is his type. However, you do have a point that in fact, he seems to be driven by his feelings towards others. I guess I could provide an explanation of why this is... but I think I'll just say that he's just a cool ENTJ like that. Arrogant, bossy, manipulative, dangerous, solitary and sadistic.. but ultimately good-natured and self-sacrificial.

Btw, I've been thinking and bug guy is another ISTP like Kakashi. Good call to the one who noticed the similarity.

Feel free to ask for any clarifications in case I have not been clear enough in any of my arguments.

[Outdoorwhale]

Originally Posted by Thrifty To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Sasuke is just an emo kid, and while you could argue that he is "damaged", etc, I think that simply his primary motivation is how he feels about things. His "subjective feelings" towards things/people, and this one of the themes of Fi. He seeks revenge, and this is a typical Fi+Se "gone wrong" theme. He changes his mind constantly as his understanding of the morality of the situation changes (revelations about Itachi, etc), and that is what drives him (this is all Fi). Another example of an ISFJ that perhaps you are familiar with is Shosanna Dreyfus, the protagonist of the movie Inglorious Basterds. Just so you can see that ISFJ's despite "being sensors", pack a punch. Another one is Rei Ayanami from Evangelion. One is more focused on Se and the other on Fi. What you are attributing to Te (and thinking that Sasuke is ESTJ as a result) is in fact Se, "power sensing" (I like to call Si "background sensing" -- which is more of low-key thing, this "heaviness" that ESTJs have). Te has to do with plans, procedures, objectivity, the logic of the world, information, efficiency.. etc. His Te is weak. Strong Te types (either base of auxiliary) are blunt/dry, and typically not driven by their emotions.

His parents, and whole family where killed. He does not qualify to be called Emo, given his problems are real(well fake) and lives in them every day. He is reminded everyday of what he is, and what he lost. This is going to bring emotions of ANY person out. So using this is a qualifier for Fi is moot. This does not disqualify him from being a Te.

You are aware Sasuke is blunt, dry and not driven by his emotions? He only gets emotional towards the goal of Itachi, the center of his hatred, then Konoha. Throughout the story he remains this way except during those periods. He he deals with Naruto, Sakura, and the others is nothing but distant except for rare moments during combat.

ESTJs do have Fi as their weakest function after all, without having to go under extreme stress to get F(i then e). And like I said, his damaged state also needs to be taken in.

Originally Posted by Thrifty To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

On the other hand, Itachi's Te is not weak at all. Do you remember those episodes when he and Kisame visit konoha? Take note of the following: - He scolds Kisame repeatedly (an ESTP) when he tries to divert from the main plans (Te -- and Ni = goal) because of Kisame's penchant to jump right into action and be confrontational with Se with no regards to the consequences (Ni). One of his main complaints is that what Kisame is doing is "inefficient" (this is a trademark Te statement) or "unnecessary" (another Te statement). Te types like to optimize the usage of resources, and any kind of waste annoys them.

Not so, INFJ is Ni-Fe-Ti-Se. His actions are very much Ti and typical of Fe in conflict avoidance. Not to mention he loved Konoha(he killed his own clan to keep it/sasuke safe) so why would he just start destroying it now? Start killing his old friends that protect Sasuke? He could have easily killed Kakashi and the girl, yet doesn't. His connections to them and Konoha is still strong.

Originally Posted by Thrifty To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

- He's always trying to predict his opponents' moves, in order to be one step ahead. He's very strategic. His way of fighting is very similar to Shikamaru's (props to whoever noticed the similarity between them). Foreseeing = Ni. However, they differ a little in their style; Itachi is much more active. He's always setting up things and trying to "trap" his opponents. Ni auxiliary types (ENxJs) like to "set up" scenarios where they can predict what is going to happen, so that they can be in control of the situation (EJ).

Not really. I did make this point early and do agree it's Ni fighting. You can't argue ENxJs are the sole type for controlling behaviors. However, his style of fighting is very Fe. Plus, again, the third trait of INFJs is Ti then Se. It all fits into his type.

	Originally Posted by Thrifty To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	- He is capable of producing a lot of aggression in a short amount of time, but his endurance is low (in contrast to Kisame, who being a Se dominant type has a lot of endurance, perhaps this is one of the reasons they were paired together). I know this from socionics; but this means that he has tertiary Se (that's how the tertiary works, especially in the case of ENTJs).

The fourth function of INFJs is Se. I fail to see how aggression can be linked. All types are aggressive in combat, especially Ninjas.

Originally Posted by Thrifty To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

- He has a "hazy", aloof demeanor that points to him being a Ni type. He's very distant, dry, and doesn't like to get involved with people too much and this means that he doesn't like Fe (external/objective feelings = the feelings/emotions of other people). His confrontation with his clan points to him not liking neither Si or Fe, both of which cause adherence to groups. He's sort of a rebel. However, he has very strong personal values (Fi) that he doesn't like to break, what ultimately causes his demise (his attachment to his brother. Attachments = Fi). Hence, Fi > Fe.

Wrong. Out of all the feeling types INFJs are the least likely to be involved with people, this is well known. The primary function of INFJ is Ni, not Fe. This provides a barrier between the Fe and others as opposed to ENFJs. Their dominant is Fe and would make this so. Why would someone with a dominate Ni get overly wrapped up in others emotions? It is the reason INFJs and INTJs are so close mentally and appearance. His Fe comes into play towards his brother, his old friends and Konoha. He feels towards them/it guide him to make his decisions. During their fights he manipulates their emotions, and forces their submission. He uses his Ti exactly as an INFJ would...they do think. His words are exactly out of an INFJ book as well.

Ni/Fe creates idealism, and given the introversion tends to be introverted. So this creates the "personal values" you speak of...something few INFJs will break. He became a Martyr...to save Sasuke he must die. He knew this and planned it.

Plus, saying "attachments=Fi" is ridiculous. Really so when you talk of family.

Originally Posted by Thrifty To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

- Many things are not consistent with him being an extrovert, you say? True, but ENTJs are still NTs. ENTJs are very similar to INTPs, in the same way that INTJs are similar to ENTPs ... because in fact they have the same functions, only that the other way around. He's focused on his auxiliary Ni (instead of dominant Te), what makes him aloof like that. That's also his nature, simply. Extroversion =/= gregariousness.

Semantics.

Originally Posted by Thrifty To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I've seen Itachi typed as all sorts of things. I've noticed that INFJs in particular want to claim him as one of their own... sorry, but he's a blatant NT, and seeing he is not INTJ, ENTP or INTP, and the only one left is ENTJ; that is his type. However, you do have a point that in fact, he seems to be driven by his feelings towards others. I guess I could provide an explanation of why this is... but I think I'll just say that he's just a cool ENTJ like that. Arrogant, bossy, manipulative, dangerous, solitary and sadistic.. but ultimately good-natured and self-sacrificial.

Yea...that's why.
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. Given you just did the same type of reason you claim against.

[Thrifty]

	Originally Posted by Outdoorwhale To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	His parents, and whole family where killed. He does not qualify to be called Emo, given his problems are real(well fake) and lives in them every day. He is reminded everyday of what he is, and what he lost. This is going to bring emotions of ANY person out. So using this is a qualifier for Fi is moot. This does not disqualify him from being a Te.

Whatever.

	You are aware Sasuke is blunt, dry and not driven by his emotions? He only gets emotional towards the goal of Itachi, the center of his hatred, then Konoha. Throughout the story he remains this way except during those periods. He he deals with Naruto, Sakura, and the others is nothing but distant except for rare moments during combat.

He has a "pseudo-arrogant" persona that barely masks his feeling nature.

	ESTJs do have Fi as their weakest function after all, without having to go under extreme stress to get F(i then e). And like I said, his damaged state also needs to be taken in.

You are really fond of ESTJs, aren't you? You wanna know why?

	Not so, INFJ is Ni-Fe-Ti-Se. His actions are very much Ti and typical of Fe in conflict avoidance. Not to mention he loved Konoha(he killed his own clan to keep it/sasuke safe) so why would he just start destroying it now? Start killing his old friends that protect Sasuke? He could have easily killed Kakashi and the girl, yet doesn't. His connections to them and Konoha is still strong.

INFJ, the "J type", actually, has Fi base and Ne auxiliary. They can use Ni very proficiently as well, but Fe barely. I already stated this in my last post (that introverts have a buggy functional order). somebody had the "marvelous" idea to give "the J" (rationality) to the introverts that had an extroverted judging function (Fe or Te). This is fallacious. Now, you can believe me or not, but things are what they are. A Ni+Fe and seeking Se+Ti type would be Kabuto (INFP -- irrational type with IP temperament). Note how he is very manipulative; that's auxiliary Fe at work (trying to induce emotions in others). An INFJ would be Gaara. He's much colder (IXFJs are usually somewhat "cold" because they don't like Fe much).

Here; feel free to check out what I mean so you can cease to be ignorant:


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	Not really. I did make this point early and do agree it's Ni fighting. You can't argue ENxJs are the sole type for controlling behaviors. However, his style of fighting is very Fe. Plus, again, the third trait of INFJs is Ti then Se. It all fits into his type.

As I've said, the functions are incorrect. However, if you are 100% percent sure (think it carefully! Take in mind what I've been saying so far about each function!) that you have that functional preference, then it means that you are INFP not INFJ. But I don't think you are because you seem to have incorrect views on what each function is (understandably so).

EJ types tend to be the most controlling, particularly those ESTJs that you seem to liek so much. This is because they tend to have a choleric temperament (of the ancient temperaments). i.e: EJ - Choleric, EP - Sanguine, IJ - Phlematic, IP - Melancholic. Note that I'm not saying that all EJ's are controlling, or that other types can't be controlling.

Err.. "Fe style of fighting"? ...Come again?

	The fourth function of INFJs is Se. I fail to see how aggression can be linked. All types are aggressive in combat, especially Ninjas.

Not quite. Let's set the example of Shikamaru and Kabuto, both INxP types (dominant Ni). They don't display that "in your face" agression of Naruto or Kisame (Se dominants), they are much more surreptitious and strategic, relying on brains instead of brawns, trying to exploit their opponents' weaknesses in order to defeat them.

Wrong. Out of all the feeling types INFJs are the least likely to be involved with people, this is well known. The primary function of INFJ is Ni, not Fe. This provides a barrier between the Fe and others as opposed to ENFJs. Their dominant is Fe and would make this so. Why would someone with a dominate Ni get overly wrapped up in others emotions? It is the reason INFJs and INTJs are so close mentally and appearance. His Fe comes into play towards his brother, his old friends and Konoha. He feels towards them/it guide him to make his decisions. During their fights he manipulates their emotions, and forces their submission. He uses his Ti exactly as an INFJ would...they do think. His words are exactly out of an INFJ book as well. Ni/Fe creates idealism, and given the introversion tends to be introverted. So this creates the "personal values" you speak of...something few INFJs will break. He became a Martyr...to save Sasuke he must die. He knew this and planned it. Plus, saying "attachments=Fi" is ridiculous. Really so when you talk of family.

1. Lol @ you for placing all INFJs under the same banner. You just need to find a single INFJ that doesn't agree with what you've written and your whole argument would be invalid. Nice aristocracy (half of the types are aristocratic-- this means that they tend to describe themselves as belonging to groups, the others are "democratic", which means that they tend to not "lump" people together, they consider things individually on a case per case basis).

2. Your reasoning is fallacious all over. You are trying to fit everything into your preconceptions instead of looking at reality and deriving your principles from it. You are rationalizing an orange into an apple, again.

3. ENTJs are usually very skilled manipulators; deeply persuasive and clever.

I'm curious... do you know any ENTJs (preferably in real life)?

4. Fi has to do with attachments. That's why IxFJ give this a lot of importance. while IxFP's are much more "flakey" (the care more about the positive emotions rather than bonds or attachments; Fe > Fi). It's not because "of the J", it's because of Fi dominance. But whatever.

	Semantics.

Perhaps with the knowledge you have now that is the impression that you get, but not in reality. Having an "E" in your type doesn't automatically mean that you are a party monster and you love hanging out with random people all the time. Lol
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.

These are the definitions of extroversion and introversion that I'm using (in case you are interested):


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(read the 'misconceptions' part -- that's what I mean).

[DaemonHugin]

er, I cant get into this deep debate, but I'd like to point out that, particularly, though the series, I found myself related mostly to three characters - Shikamaru / Sai / Itachi.

Being an INTJ myself, I believe they three share at least 3 traits or so of my character. Out of them, Sai is the one which reflects me the most.

[Outdoorwhale]

	Originally Posted by Thrifty To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Whatever.

I have offered you every chance to explain your actions and thoughts. Instead, you ramble off another set of theories I wouldn't know about, call me ignorant/arrogant about them, don't help your case in any of your arguments(even if you could be right using your theories), disregard the story line, and so forth. And now, you use a Wiki to support your answers that don't even help you. You even disregard life experience as a cause for actions.

Here's another wiki for you.

( Show Spoiler )

"Towards the end of Naruto manga volume forty-three, after Itachi's death, the truth of his background is given in full. Itachi's early childhood was marred by war, the violence of which caused him to seek peace at any cost. When years later the Uchiha clan began planning a coup d'état to take control of the village of Konohagakure, Itachi feared the attempt would cause another war and became a double agent, providing Konoha with intelligence on his clan's actions. The village eventually gave him the mission of assassinating the Uchiha, a task he asked Madara Uchiha for assistance with. After the Uchiha were eliminated, Itachi, tormented by his actions, could not bring himself to kill Sasuke too.[16] He made himself out as a villain so that Sasuke would someday kill him to avenge their family. To keep Sasuke safe until then, Itachi threatened to share everything he knew about Konoha with its enemies if the village ever harmed Sasuke. In the meantime, he joined the criminal organization Akatsuki to keep an eye on it and Madara in case they ever conspired against Konoha"

"Itachi usually has a dispassionate appearance, rarely showing emotion and keeping his composure even when surprised or irritated. When first introduced, Itachi is portrayed as being extremely loyal to Akatsuki, trying to have Kakashi Hatake disposed of for knowing something about the secretive organization. He is also shown to be confident in his abilities, taunting Kakashi for not being as strong as he is. In both instances, Itachi proves to be on good terms with his partner, Kisame Hoshigaki, who immediately does as he asks and worries about Itachi's well-being.[18] He is more considerate to his opponents in Part II, praising Kakashi during their re-encounter for improving his abilities and, when later confronting Naruto Uzumaki, only desiring to speak with him.[19][20] Itachi is, however, consistently hostile towards Sasuke; during their first meeting since the destruction of the Uchiha, Itachi breaks Sasuke's wrist and ridicules him for still being weak.[21] This attitude reaches its peak in the conversation that precedes Itachi's death, where he abandons his passive expression for excitement at the prospect of finally getting to kill Sasuke.[22] This is all explained to be a facade after his death, as his chief concern is Sasuke's safety, the evil persona being used only to cement Sasuke's resolution to kill him."

I see your argument, I don't see the basis for it even in Scio. You put words I never said into the argument, and a few flames you tried to hide. Welcome to the ignore function.

[Thrifty]

Come on, don't be so sensitive.

I understand your point about Itachi's background, what I don't quite grasp is why that means that he is INFJ necessarily. ENTJs aren't really confrontational and "trigger happy", in fact, they tend to be kind of peaceful. If you piss them off that's another story. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

	Originally Posted by DaemonHugin
	er, I cant get into this deep debate, but I'd like to point out that, particularly, though the series, I found myself related mostly to three characters - Shikamaru / Sai / Itachi. Being an INTJ myself, I believe they three share at least 3 traits or so of my character. Out of them, Sai is the one which reflects me the most.

INTP, INTJ and ENTJ, and if you add Orochimaru to that list; ENTP. One of each :D

[Synamon]

	Originally Posted by Thrifty To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	INFJ, the "J type", actually, has Fi base and Ne auxiliary. They can use Ni very proficiently as well, but Fe barely. I already stated this in my last post (that introverts have a buggy functional order). somebody had the "marvelous" idea to give "the J" (rationality) to the introverts that had an extroverted judging function (Fe or Te). This is fallacious.

No one cares if you don't like the MBTI premises. This is an MBTI forum and when you throw socionics definitions of type into the mix, without stating that clearly or using the correct nomenclature it's confusing. INFJ is an MBTI type and the functions are Ni-Fe. Period.

	As I've said, the functions are incorrect. However, if you are 100% percent sure (think it carefully! Take in mind what I've been saying so far about each function!) that you have that functional preference, then it means that you are INFP not INFJ. But I don't think you are because you seem to have incorrect views on what each function is (understandably so).

No, the functions using socionics do not match those of MBTI. Deal with it. Translate what you are saying into MBTI or you are the one arguing apples instead of oranges.

[Tsuru]

Here's my personal guesses:

Naruto: ESFP
Sasuke: IxTJ
Sakura: ESFJ
Shikamaru: INTP
Tsunade: ENFP
Jiraiya: ExTP
Orochimaru: INTJ
Itachi: ISTJ
Rock Lee: ISFJ
Might Guy: ENFP
Kakashi: ISTP

[Indubitably]

Naruto: ESFP Not much ambiguity here.

Sakura: ENFJ Not 100% on this one, but she more or less fits the bill.

Shikamaru: INTP If this isn't self evident, I don't know what is.

Tsunade: ENTJ I don't know where people are getting the P from here. The gambling thing maybe? Tsundade has her shit together, hell, shes got everybody's shit together, and shes not afraid to crack the whip. That, is coupled with the fact that she is far more the creative sort than the "by the books" S type of leader, definitely makes me think she is an ENTJ.

Jiraiya: ENTP Some of you seem to be going with sensor just because hes hedonistic.. obviously you haven't met many ENTPs yet. XD

Orochimaru: INT..P? I don't know, you'd think he was a J at first, but ultimately he just wants to obtain limitless knowledge at pretty much the expense of anything and everything else, which is pretty INTPish. What ever he is, hes a sociopath, so I don't tink you can peg him so easily.

Itachi: INTJ Contingency planning much? The guy has a back up plan for his back plan's back up plan. He definitely seem intuitive to me, and his emotional side is very idealistic. Perspective is pretty fluid for INTJs, I'm not surprised at all that he rejects the idea of a single reality, INTJs may be practical in that they are driven to accomplish something tangible with their efforts but they don't like to put too much stock in any one point of view. I can see where people are comeing from with INFJ but I really don't think it fits, when INFJs go bad they become petty and vindictive, an INFJ itachi would be hel bent on making the people who caused his pain suffer ten times as much as he did. Instead he is trying to stay true to his principals and protect the village depite everything that was done to him. I think hes about as INTJ as you are going to get with a fictional character like this.

Sasuke: ISFP Just like with batman, this is one often mistaken for an INTJ because it has all the same functions. ISFP - Fi Se Ni Te A seething culdren of idealism that threatens to bubble over at any moment with a vengence, but with backup sparks of gut instinct iNtuition to get them out of a tight spot, and a vague but present grand plan always lurking in the back ground. INTJ - Ni Te Fi Se An imaginitive yet ruthlessly driven schemer with a hidden but ever present idealistic side and the occasional urge to tempt fate by walking the razors edge. They both have a similar "vibe" but they are definitely not the same personality

Rock Lee: ISFJ

Guy: ESFP

Kakashi: ISTP Probably... although, its hard to say