[Wtfpeople]

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	When has this happened, beside in your imagination?

One time I was at a lookout. I saw the cops rolling up, and it was "that time" again where they tell everyone to leave. I decided to extend some courtesy to my "next door neighbors" and tell them they should probably leave before the cops make their way up the line.

-I approached from the front of the car thinking that I didnt want to startle anyone.
-I could see both the driver (male) and the passenger (female) so I knew they werent in the back seat doing anything.
-As soon as I made eye contact with the passenger, she screamed.
-Before I could really do anything else, the guy turns on the car, puts it in reverse and made a little scene as they drove off.
-Well, the cops that were "doing their thing" saw this and pulled them over like 20m-30m from where we were to ask them what the problem was.
-The girl said I snuck up on them and tried to open the door cause she heard me pull on the door handle.
-I heard her say this so I knew that the best thing to do at that point was not to leave and wait till one of the cops came over to talk to me. I explained myself and what I was trying to do and denied the whole thing about sneaking up on them and trying to get inside their car. I said shes probably making this bullshit up because she thought they were going to get a ticket or something.
-The cops talked to me friends and they backed me up.
-The lady then says she must have been mistaken about the sound and that she was sorry.
-The end.

Yep, crazy bitch. Maybe, I shouldnt have tried to be friendly and let them know. That still doesnt defeat the fact that she either straight up lied about the whole "trying to get into the car" story or something like the wind blowing made both of them freak out.

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I like the lowriders with the windows down and rap music playing at very, very, very loud volumes. They're Idiot Alerts.

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Hataz gone hate! lol

[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by Wtfpeople To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Of course id suspect a suspicious stranger over a friend, I dont think anyone would disagree. I think people who assume that their friends would never do it are wrong. There is very good reason for the "just because you're dating doesnt mean its not rape" type of commercials.

I've been physically beaten and abused in the past by both boyfriends and my ex-husband. I would never assume that a significant other wouldn't do these things. I do, however, have a considerable degree of trust that my current boyfriend wouldn't, mainly because I've dealt with my propensity to attract and be attracted to dirtbags.

	I never said that. I only said that every man could possibly be a rapist (you can insert anything here, really). There is no excuse to treat every man as a rapist, but there isnt an excuse to believe that he will never rape you or anyone else.

I don't treat men as rapists. I treat them as potential rapists since rapists have a disconcerting tendency to look like everyone else. I don't see that I have much of a choice. In other words, I adjust my behavior in order to protect myself from threats, both perceived and possible.

If you're a man and you're riding alone with a woman on a hotel elevator late at night, you shouldn't be offended if I take proper precautions. If you are, that's really your choice.

	I made no suggestion of how women could actually defend themselves against an actual rape. The only "suggestion" that I made was that women should try to be "as aware as possible" and that any women who says "I should expect not to be raped" is wrong only because expecting not to be raped does not protect ones self against rape

.
I hope not to be raped, but I think that the possibility is real enough to warrant reasonable precuations.

	I dont know if I agree with "most women are taken by surprise" and "rapists are usually prepared and go out looking to rape".

Really. You think that women aren't surprised to be violently sexually attacked?

	I can definitely see "rapes of opportunity" and "trust rapes" being examples of how, in some cases, those types of rape would argue against ones ability to be prepared

The guy may not have packed his own pair of handcuffs, but I guarantee that he's considered the possibility of rape prior to the event and has visualized how it might go down. Women who haven't considered at least the possiblity of this occurring make good victims.

	I have, however, said that there are some women who are stupid for being raped, because they are negligent. Because they may be stupid in those circumstances, that doesnt mean they're at fault.

I do believe that some humans make choices that make it more likely that they will be a victim of a violent crime. For instance, a member of a street gang is MUCH more likely to be the victim of a violent crime than someone who isn't a gang member. A woman who does not monitor her alcohol consumption may miss warning signs that would have tipped her off, were she less intoxicated.

	I can see this. I have been "offended" by women like you before, and I only shrug it off because I can understand that I may look like a criminal (with the "deathstare" and all). The only time I would have any issue with this, is if you were to have me arrested (or something) or if you forced anything on me because you're simply "scared". (Assuming that i've done nothing other than "being there")

I work with criminals for a living. They don't have a particular "look." It's only the circumstances that may cause me to treat you with coldness or to fear your intentions.

I've probably been rude to men in bars before because I don't enjoy being hit on. There are some men who view your presence there as an invitation, and in my case, they're mistaken in that belief.

	But, also I expect you to not be offended if you get called a "crazy bitch" from time to time.

It's not being a "crazy bitch" to logically and rationally deal with perceived threats to my safety. Try to deal with the fact that not all women are going to be welcoming simply because we perceive your actions or behaviors to be suspect.

[Wtfpeople]

	Originally Posted by catzmeow To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Really. You think that women aren't surprised to be violently sexually attacked? The guy may not have packed his own pair of handcuffs, but I guarantee that he's considered the possibility of rape prior to the event and has visualized how it might go down. Women who haven't considered at least the possiblity of this occurring make good victims.

I think we're in agreement and understanding for everything in your post. This section here I have pulled out so that I can explain what I mean. I dont think you'll disagree with my explanation.

I think women are "surprised to be violently attacked".

I do not think "most women are taken by surprise", meaning that the rapists doesnt always surprise its victims. I think cases like date rape and child rape are examples where surprise really wasnt a factor. There was "surprise", sure, but its usually after the fact. When I read what you wrote, I was under the impression that you were saying most rapes happen with a guy jumping out of a tree, or something.



For the second part, I think "premeditation" and "fantasizing of a crime" before a crime happens are two very different things. I also think that sometimes rape happens because a certain opportunity arises and there is little fear of being caught. As counter examples, I dont think its fair to say that everyone who watches rape porn is a practicing rapist, or every child who steals a cookie from a cookie jar does it because they planned it. It could be that most people who watch rape porn like the idea of rape, but have enough control to not actually rape, and most kids who steal from the cookie jar are doing it because daddy is taking a nap.

[Seriously]

	I think cases like date rape and child rape are examples where surprise really wasnt a factor.

Because people expect their dates and family members to rape them???

[Wtfpeople]

	Originally Posted by Seriously To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Because people expect their dates and family members to rape them???

No. Children dont know any better so they're surprised later, after the fact, that what was happening to them was actually rape, but at the time nothing seemed wrong with it.

No. Date rape doesnt always happen from people you know. It's not really a "surprise attack" if you drink something that someone else has poisoned and pass out. You just wake up later "surprised" that you've been raped. If you fall asleep and wake up later having been raped, I dont know if that counts as a surprise attack.

[I just read this over and over trying to find a clearer way of saying what I mean. I'm too tired to think of a solution. I'll try to fix this later to be more clear.]


I'm just saying (as per catzmeows post) that not all rape victims are "taken by surprise", but that rape victims are "surprised they've been raped". To me, those mean two very different things, as her other post also talks about premeditation, which implies "taking a person by surprise" would be part of a premeditated plan. A victim who is "surprised to have been raped" does not necessarily imply that the rape was premeditated.

[Seriously]

	No. Children dont know any better so they're surprised later, after the fact, that what was happening to them was actually rape, but at the time nothing seemed wrong with it.

Really? Because the people that I know who were abused as children knew it wasn't right. They didn't expect this from people they trusted. Same with women I know. They were surprised when the man they trusted all of the sudden wouldn't take no for an answer.

But I don't see where it really matters regardless. Intent or not, premedicated or not those people still ended up being abused. So what is your point?

[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by Wtfpeople To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	No. Children dont know any better so they're surprised later, after the fact, that what was happening to them was actually rape, but at the time nothing seemed wrong with it.

Victims of child molestation frequently realize something wrong is happening to them.

	No. Date rape doesnt always happen from people you know. It's not really a "surprise attack" if you drink something that someone else has poisoned and pass out. You just wake up later "surprised" that you've been raped. If you fall asleep and wake up later having been raped, I dont know if that counts as a surprise attack.

Unexpected may be a word that will help you understand my comments.

[firebee]

	Originally Posted by Wtfpeople To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yep, crazy bitch. Maybe, I shouldnt have tried to be friendly and let them know. That still doesnt defeat the fact that she either straight up lied about the whole "trying to get into the car" story or something like the wind blowing made both of them freak out.

Both of them "freaked out" -- the male driver of the car was the one, in fact, who took precipitous action -- and yet the female passenger is the one who rated the description of "crazy bitch".

I see.

I'd suggest that you turn that perceptive ability that you've been using thus far to explaining how it is that women get themselves raped to the purpose of explaining how it is that you get yourself so consistently misunderstood. This should, if anything, be an easier task since you have access to much more information about your own nature than you do about the natures of hypothetical whoresluts and crazy bitches.

[Seriously]

Originally Posted by firebee To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Both of them "freaked out" -- the male driver of the car was the one, in fact, who took precipitous action -- and yet the female passenger is the one who rated the description of "crazy bitch". I see. I'd suggest that you turn that perceptive ability that you've been using thus far to explaining how it is that women get themselves raped to the purpose of explaining how it is that you get yourself so consistently misunderstood. This should, if anything, be an easier task since you have access to much more information about your own nature than you do about the natures of hypothetical whoresluts and crazy bitches.

Well now firebee surely you can see that the crazy bitch influenced the poor man to do what he did. Ultimately everything is the woman's fault.

I blame Eve.

[SirJamesIII]

I'm no expert, but aren't most rapes not in public? It's not like some guy is gonna whip it out on a subway train and go to town. I think it it must be an illusion that is created concerning the fact that you feel less comfortable when you are confronted by someone in public than with someone you know in private. If you know the guy, he should still be Schrödinger’s rapist. I'd even bet the odds go up of being raped when you know the person. These feelings of paranoia (what else should I call it?) are more of a result of instinct rather than logic IMO.

I don't have any problems with what was said in the essay. I always do my best to respect another's space.

[firebee]

Originally Posted by SirJamesIII To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I'm no expert, but aren't most rapes not in public? It's not like some guy is gonna whip it out on a subway train and go to town. I think it it must be an illusion that is created concerning the fact that you feel less comfortable when you are confronted by someone in public than with someone you know in private. If you know the guy, he should still be Schrödinger’s rapist. I'd even bet the odds go up of being raped when you know the person. These feelings of paranoia (what else should I call it?) are more of a result of instinct rather than logic IMO.

This, among other things, is true.

However, one might consider the connection with this:

	Originally Posted by SirJamesIII To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I don't have any problems with what was said in the essay. I always do my best to respect another's space.

If people who don't respect my space get Removed, they never end up knowing me. One might draw a conclusion about the benefits of that practice, given the aforementioned point regarding how rape is generally implemented.

[Wtfpeople]

	Originally Posted by firebee To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Both of them "freaked out" -- the male driver of the car was the one, in fact, who took precipitous action -- and yet the female passenger is the one who rated the description of "crazy bitch".

Right, because in a situation like that, it's worth the wrath of your significant other over a stranger. She screamed. She started it. Apparently, I missed the memo where every time a woman is approached by a man, its like totally appropriate to scream, starting a chain reaction that ends up in false accusations with police involvement.

Get real.

Originally Posted by firebee To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I'd suggest that you turn that perceptive ability that you've been using thus far to explaining how it is that women get themselves raped to the purpose of explaining how it is that you get yourself so consistently misunderstood. This should, if anything, be an easier task since you have access to much more information about your own nature than you do about the natures of hypothetical whoresluts and crazy bitches.

For fucks sake.

(I think it's about that time)

I'd suggest that you turn that straw man ability that you've been using thus far to explaining how it is that men who feel like women can prevent themselves from being raped are only looking to place the blame on women to the purpose of explaining how it is that you get yourself so consistently misunderstood and raped. This should, if anything, be an easier task since you have access to much more information about your own nature than you do about the natures of hypothetical chauvinists and super rapists.

	Originally Posted by Seriously To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Well now firebee surely you can see that the crazy bitch influenced the poor man to do what he did. Ultimately everything is the woman's fault. I blame Eve.

Well now Seriously surely you can see that the potential rapist influenced the poor lady to do what she did. Ultimately everything is the mans fault.

I blame Steve.



From the beginning, you guys have been confusing the statements

"You have to be prepared"

with

"It's your fault"

I have never said it's ever a womans fault she gets raped. In fact, i've clarified it multiple times, saying specifically that it's never a womans fault she gets raped. What continues to baffle me is that how this keeps being misrepresented into "Obviously man blames women for rape happening" which to me implies that women seem to think they're defenseless.

Women are not defenseless, but doesnt mean they can actually prevent rape from happening.
Women can be negligent, but doesnt mean they're actually at fault.

Why cant you see that it doesnt have to be one or the other?
Why cant you see that there exists a concept where there is a middle ground, despite what the parties involved believe in?
Why cant you see that I am able to see that middle ground while you (apparently) cannot?

[gecko]

Originally Posted by Wtfpeople To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

From the beginning, you guys have been confusing the statements "You have to be prepared" with "It's your fault" I have never said it's ever a womans fault she gets raped. In fact, i've clarified it multiple times, saying specifically that it's never a womans fault she gets raped. What continues to baffle me is that how this keeps being misrepresented into "Obviously man blames women for rape happening" which to me implies that women seem to think they're defenseless. Women are not defenseless, but doesnt mean they can actually prevent rape from happening. Women can be negligent, but doesnt mean they're actually at fault. Why cant you see that it doesnt have to be one or the other? Why cant you see that there exists a concept where there is a middle ground, despite what the parties involved believe in? Why cant you see that I am able to see that middle ground while you (apparently) cannot?

For someone who laments people who "play the victim", you certainly trumpet your own misunderstood-ness loudly and repetitively. Are you being intentionally ironic?

Maybe I see where you and plotthickens diverged. plotthickens said that only rapists can stop rape, an ambiguous statement in itself. However when plotthickens explained that its purpose is to remove the sense of guilt from rape victims, it makes more sense.

[Wtfpeople]

	Originally Posted by gecko To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Maybe I see where you and plotthickens diverged. plotthickens said that only rapists can stop rape, an ambiguous statement in itself. However when plotthickens explained that its purpose is to remove the sense of guilt from rape victims, it makes more sense.

You know... I think we're just both being stubborn. I've been questioning whether or not my continual posts in this thread are being constructive, or if its my own stubbornness which is fueling me.

I cant speak for her.

[firebee]

	Originally Posted by Wtfpeople To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why cant you see that I am able to see that middle ground while you (apparently) cannot?

Because the way you present your position does not exactly lend itself to an impression of even-handedness.

Also, it must be noted that the middle ground between "crazy" and "sane" is "crazy" -- and similarly we can discern that the middle ground between "crazy" and "other crazy" is often apt to be "really crazy". Solomon wasn't actually proposing to saw the baby in half, you know.

Finally, I'm not convinced that, even when one factors out all the yelling, that the position you present is actually located at any useful "middle ground". However, that is rather a difficult matter to discern given the amazingly fuzzy and reactive nature of the reasoning you've put forth.

I don't live in fear of rape, or of violent crime generally, and I do not think that concern which does not lead to productive action is useful (even if I do respect the means by which people come by such concern). And while in a sense I do think that everyone that I have contact with has the potential to assault me, rape me, run me over while I'm riding my bicycle, or whatnot, generally the thought is not present in my mind unless something in particular is going on that raises that possibility.

However, in the case that I do feel at risk of something bad, the motto that I apply to dealing with such matters is "Dignity is optional." All other things being equal, I do have some preference to avoid looking like a fool. When all other things are not equal, though, I'm quite willing to throw my dignity under the bus in the pursuit of some larger goal -- and averting a threat to my person certainly qualifies. If that means being rude, then I'll be rude. If that means seeming paranoid, then I will seem paranoid. So be it.

Evocative descriptions of rape as a negative experience? Not relevant. Mockery and butthurt? Also not relevant. There's your middle ground for ya.

[Wtfpeople]

	Originally Posted by firebee To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Because the way you present your position does not exactly lend itself to an impression of even-handedness.

What's funny is that I believe my ability to be "even-handed" is what causes these types of mess, both IRL and online.

	Originally Posted by firebee To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Also, it must be noted that the middle ground between "crazy" and "sane" is "crazy" -- and similarly we can discern that the middle ground between "crazy" and "other crazy" is often apt to be "really crazy". Solomon wasn't actually proposing to saw the baby in half, you know.

True, but, if I were involved in this argument I would clearly entertain the idea of sawing the baby in half because I am not immediately biased towards it being wrong because its a baby, and because sawing it in half kills it, and because I understand people are willing to put their own desire for the baby, even if resolution ultimately kills the baby itself.

Contrasted to the first quote and quote response, I think im really fair. You think im not fair, because a judgment I could make could possibly kill the baby, or "miss the point".

I think what you're trying to say is that im "too fair" because, to me, sawing the baby in half as it relates to that argument could be replaced with a loaf of bread and cutting that in half. After we determine who should get what (because this is about the parties in dispute, not the baby yet) then any issues about sawing a baby in half (or a load of bread) as a means of even disbursement should be considered.

What Solomon suggested was that "ima pretend to saw a baby in half lols so I dont have to listen to these ladies argue anymore cause its clear they're more interested in themselves than the baby".

That's not only stupid, but unfair.

	Originally Posted by firebee To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Finally, I'm not convinced that, even when one factors out all the yelling, that the position you present is actually located at any useful "middle ground". However, that is rather a difficult matter to discern given the amazingly fuzzy and reactive nature of the reasoning you've put forth.

Acceptable. This is why we have discussion. It's not to make you agree, necessarily.

Originally Posted by firebee To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I don't live in fear of rape, or of violent crime generally, and I do not think that concern which does not lead to productive action is useful (even if I do respect the means by which people come by such concern). And while in a sense I do think that everyone that I have contact with has the potential to assault me, rape me, run me over while I'm riding my bicycle, or whatnot, generally the thought is not present in my mind unless something in particular is going on that raises that possibility.

I'm not sure how that applies to me or things I said? Maybe I missed it.

Originally Posted by firebee To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

However, in the case that I do feel at risk of something bad, the motto that I apply to dealing with such matters is "Dignity is optional." All other things being equal, I do have some preference to avoid looking like a fool. When all other things are not equal, though, I'm quite willing to throw my dignity under the bus in the pursuit of some larger goal -- and averting a threat to my person certainly qualifies. If that means being rude, then I'll be rude. If that means seeming paranoid, then I will seem paranoid. So be it.

Sure. I dont pass judgment against you. I will respond to it if it happens to me. Im sure people will respond to it if it happens to them. As i've said before, dont be surprised if this happens.

You have said you accept the fact that some people may react negatively and that the negative reaction is acceptable to you (and I agree). Statements like "dont be surprised" are direct at the women who are unable to accept that not every other person on the planet is going to be welcomed to the idea of being "a potential rapist" by you.

	Originally Posted by firebee To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Evocative descriptions of rape as a negative experience? Not relevant. Mockery and butthurt? Also not relevant. There's your middle ground for ya.

1/2

[plotthickens]

	Originally Posted by Wtfpeople To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	From the beginning, you guys have been confusing the statements "You have to be prepared" with "It's your fault"

No. We have been trying to reconcile

	Originally Posted by Wtfpeople To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	you had it coming.

with

	Originally Posted by Wtfpeople To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	it's never a womans fault she gets raped.

The two are diametrically opposed. The first rule of logic says a thing cannot both be and not be at the same time. Please explain how those two statements are logically OK to hold at the same time.

[Wtfpeople]

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The two are diametrically opposed. The first rule of logic says a thing cannot both be and not be at the same time. Please explain how those two statements are logically OK to hold at the same time.

I had to step back for a bit because I wasnt sure how I should respond to this.


I refuse to accept this. Any attempt at accepting this challenge will require that I acknowledge that "those two statements" are on like terms, something which I have adamantly refused this whole time.

Those two statements are not in any way affiliated with one another.

	(you had it coming.) (it's never a womans fault she gets raped.)

Is correct.

~(you had it coming.) > (it's never a womans fault she gets raped.) (you had it coming.) > ~(it's never a womans fault she gets raped.) (you had it coming.) = (it's never a womans fault she gets raped.) ~(you had it coming.) = (it's never a womans fault she gets raped.) (you had it coming.) = ~(it's never a womans fault she gets raped.) ~((you had it coming.) ^ ~(it's never a womans fault she gets raped.)) ect.

Is not correct. As I have been firm that those two things are not actions or results of the other. They may both occur, they may both not, or it may be on or the other. They are not dependent on each other. They are independent events.

[vampyroteuthis]

	Originally Posted by Wtfpeople To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	...I have been firm that those two things are not actions or results of the other. They may both occur, they may both not, or it may be on or the other. They are not dependent on each other. They are independent events.

How?

Please to explain for us wimminz who think saying that "she had it coming" implies that someone was raped as a result of their actions and decisions and/or that some people deserve or invite rape more than others. This, in turn implies that if someone "had it coming" then it is, at least to some extent, her fault. Yes? No? Fish?

[Zsych]

	Originally Posted by Wtfpeople To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Assuming that the worst is not a possibility without any prior knowledge while knowing that the risk of injury is greater than feelings in general is acceptable in yours?

It can be about the same, piss off the wrong person and you will suffer in any number of ways. Physical injury is a minor thing.

But anyway, its more a matter of way of life and what kind of society you're contributing to. Promoting a viewpoint of lack of faith in others is damaging to society and helps maintain not just the darker expectations but also for perpetrators of crimes, the idea that what they do is normal and expected.

	Originally Posted by Wtfpeople To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Originally Posted by Zsych If you're going to assume that everyone is a potential rapist then you should also assume that they are potential murderers, thieves and generally just out to take advantage of you in any number of possible ways. I do.

That is a perversion.

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I've been stolen from, beaten, ADW'd three times, raped, knifed, and shot. This evidence shows me that there is significant risk in humans. Murderers, thieves and bad peeps. You're saying I should not be wary of potential assailants? That's ridiculous.

You might want to move to a place where the people aren't animals.

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Waiting for another's proof of intent (benign or malign) is a good idea in every situation. so is trying to diffuse potentially explosive situations. But not being wary is sheer stupidity.

I'll agree that being wary isn't a bad idea. But there's a difference between being wary and acting on assumed guilt of the other person.

Lets say I'm giving someone a ride in my car. Is it possible that they have a weapon or might be able to overpower or harm me? Sure. Does that stop me from giving them a ride? No.

Incidentally, I may not have been shot, but I have been held at gun point, and physically attacked by people. It makes little difference. I haven't been attacked in years - in part because I choose to hang out with decent people.

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I don't care what others think of me (or anyone else). Random verbal abuse is not acceptable. If I think someone's an ugly hunk of shit, do I yell it at them on the street? No. And neither does one yell "crazy bitch!" at a woman who is trying to defend herself.

Defend herself from a real problem: that's cool. Defend herself from phantoms in her mind: that's not good.

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Just cuz we don't act like all potential sex partners are desirable on first sight ("A man! Oh, yes, hot dickings from you please!") doesn't mean we're crazy bitches. As my gay friend said about someone who was stalking him one night: "Dude, your dick can't be that good." Stop being all butt-hurt, gentlemen, occasionally good things take effort.

A highly negative viewpoint in a person makes them not a 'good thing'. You want good will from people not suspicion and looking for excuses so they can judge that you aren't a decent human being... These people just aren't worth the effort of being friends with (and I'm not even talking about relationships - I'm saying friends)

[Ibian]

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
seems to have it together.

I'm a guy so i can't speak for the rape section specifically, but everything else on that site has kept me safe when i travel alone around the world. Might be worth giving it a look, if nothing else for another angle on the topic.

[Anreader]

	Originally Posted by Wtfpeople View Post Originally Posted by Zsych If you're going to assume that everyone is a potential rapist then you should also assume that they are potential murderers, thieves and generally just out to take advantage of you in any number of possible ways. I do. That is a perversion.

I do, too. I never stop to think exactly why I think that strange man walking toward me in the parking garage is a threat. I just think he is one. I've never been assaulted, or domestically abused. The weird kid who stalked me in HS lost interest in a month, and never actually did anything to me other than creep me out. But, when I go anywhere after dark, I am aware of the possibility I could be harmed and the likelihood that were that to happen the perpetrator would most likely be male. I am severely intolerant to men in weird situations because of this fact. I am rarely alone with men I do not know well, and even then I am only 75% comfortable. This is actually an improvement for me. I was not alone in a room with a man I wasn't related to until I was 17. I can still count the number of men I've been alone with on both hands, and 2 of them were gay. And yes I worry about gay men too.

[plotthickens]

	Originally Posted by Zsych To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You might want to move to a place where the people aren't animals.

Throw-away remark is cute, but does not address the fact that humans are humans everywhere.

	Originally Posted by Zsych To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'll agree that being wary isn't a bad idea. But there's a difference between being wary and acting on assumed guilt of the other person. Lets say I'm giving someone a ride in my car. Is it possible that they have a weapon or might be able to overpower or harm me? Sure. Does that stop me from giving them a ride? No.

So you're locating the line between being wary and acting to defend oneself. You're assuming you know where I draw the line, and trying to convince me that that line needs to be moved farther away from acting. Is that correct?

	Originally Posted by Zsych To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Incidentally, I may not have been shot, but I have been held at gun point, and physically attacked by people. It makes little difference. I haven't been attacked in years - in part because I choose to hang out with decent people.

Also, you aren't in a position to be raped by an aquaintaince, and bad things happen to young, poor people in dire straits more often than to those who are not.

	Originally Posted by Zsych To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Defend herself from a real problem: that's cool. Defend herself from phantoms in her mind: that's not good.

WTF posited an hypothetical situation based upon a real-life incident. That incident, which did not include him being verbally abusive as he so often trumpeted, is exceptionally suspect for this and many other reasons. If you cannot come up with something a little more substantial either, I'm left to wonder: why are ya'all making up boogeymen? Isn't that what you're arguing against?

[Eridal]

	Originally Posted by catzmeow To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The problem is that it's not an IRRATIONAL level of fear. YOU consider it to be irrational because you consider the odds that you might be raped to be low. I consider it a normal level of fear that most women live with because the odds that we might be raped are considerably higher (1 in 6, 1 in 3, 1 in 2, depending on where we're at and our age).

Please try to use real sources of information for you statistics as those are horribly exaggerated and suffer from massive errors in procedure and methodology.
It annoys me to no end when I see people stupidly and blindly believing them just because some women's group put them out. Here's a bit of advice for people DO NOT BELIEVE ANY GROUP THAT HAS AN AGENDA. They will always lie to you and use whatever means they can to make things look worse than they are. An example of that is the rape statistic and the domestic violence ones which for rape for women is closer to 1 in 20 and domestic violence is 50/50 with women more likely to commit the act of domestic violence than men if only a single partner is involved. And I'm not even going to get into the fact that statistics are not even accounting for or measuring, in most cases, for female-female, female-male, or male-male rape.

Now this isn't to say that rape isn't a horrible crime it is to say that it doesn't happen as much as people think. It is still more common in the USA than it should be and it should never be acceptable. But the other reality of it is if you allow fear of being raped to control your every interaction with men then in my opinion you are not only stupid but are going to miss out on a lot in life.

Certain measures should be taken to protect yourself regardless of your gender this is just simple sound judgement. Reality is that everyone is out for themselves and it will always be that way. Some are more likely than others to commit violent acts and are most likely to attack targets of opportunity so by not making it easy to rape you that alone significantly reduces your chances of being raped. This isn't to blame the victim because they didn't take precautions but it's just to say that it might not have happened if they did. In an ideal world you might say something like "Well she should never have had to worry about that" and all I say to that is grow up and get rid of your idealism because reality can and will slap you in the face one day. Reality is and never will be ideal it sucks but that is truth.

Having a victim mentality does nobody any real good especially the person with that mentality all it does is make you paranoid and hampers your interactions with others. And for those who's been raped I'm sorry that happened to you but if you allow it to control your lives guess what the rapist won and you will never be free of them. And even sorrier to say THAT IS YOUR FAULT. You can choose to let it go and move on I am not saying that is easy nor am I saying the person who raped you shouldn't be punished I am say that you need to let it go and move on with your life because if you don't it will destroy you needlessly. That sounds very harsh I'm sure but that is reality you can't expect someone else to do everything for you sometimes you have to take control of yourself and your experiences and make a decision to not allow one person one event to control your entire life.

[Dru]

i don't get why you people keep making the jump from "taking precautions" to "living in a constant state of fear/paranoia". where were those words mentioned AT ALL by anyone but yourselves, i'd like to know?