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Dysfunctional sibling relationships? None
Old 12-01-2009, 03:51 AM   #1
SpaceCadet
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I've been thinking a lot lately about my childhood relationship with my older sister and how the dynamic between us then has evolved into our lives as adults. As much as I am aware of the natural phenomenon of an older child asserting dominance over a younger one in a family, I have often wondered to what extent we really acknowledge how it may leave an effect on us as individuals. People speak often of the unhealthy repercussions of a dysfunctional relationship with a parent or even a school yard bully, but what of siblings?
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Old 12-01-2009, 04:18 AM   #2
Rachel45
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I am the oldest daughter in my family. I have two younger sisters. We had the reverse of what you mentioned concerning dominance. The middle sister was the most dominant partially because of her status as the favorite of our narcissistic mother. She continually tried to compete with me and she was physically abusive to my youngest sister. Today, we have no contact with her. This empowerment abuse that my mother inflicted on her has caused her to become somewhat narcissistic. Even if she wanted to make amends, I could not have her in my life. I suffer from PTSD,(mostly as a result of the circumstances our mother put us through,also due to the fact that my sister could get away with doing whatever she wanted)-so being around her causes me to experience symptoms of PTSD-sad,but true....I have not had contact with her for over six years now.
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Old 12-01-2009, 01:45 PM   #3
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That's definitely rough. I'm really interested in hearing other people's stories about how this stuff plays out in their lives. I don't see my own sister very often due simply to the fact that she doesn't live in my town, but when she does visit, we keep things fairly amiable and neutral. That didn't work last time, and now I think there may be some sort of reckoning on the horizon. The last time I saw her, I lost my temper pretty badly (which never happens with me). I'm realizing more and more how easily she can upset me where no one else usually can, and just how far-reaching my experiences with her have been in my life. On a subtle level, if something even reminds me of her, I'm out of there.
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Old 12-01-2009, 02:05 PM   #4
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Hmm. My brother is the only person I have ever gotten into a serious physical fight with, and we definitely get on each others nerves sometimes, however, we do generally have a pretty good relationship. We both have very similar interests, and similar personality types. I'm 18, and he's only 15, so of course I can't see exactly what it'll be like when we are adults. We're both rather non-confrontational people too - and while we're competitive about stuff, we definitely don't try to knock each other down.
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Old 12-01-2009, 02:38 PM   #5
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my brother is a jerk. i've learned a lot from him. most importantly, i've learned, it's no use sucking up to a jerk to try to get on their good side, he doesn't have good sides. the reward is that you get to hang out with him, the jerk, and that pretty much sucks, since he is a jerk.

i've also learned that in a family if you refuse to be treated badly by someone else in that family, no one else will ever let it go. and they will assume it is your problem. or they will assume that something specific happened, that you should let go after all this time. they might even assume you are jealous of him, and his constant state of misery. they will never understand that it just isn't worth the hassles of dealing with someone so unhappy and ill-tempered. they will rally around him and feel sorry for him and you will become the retroactively assumed cause of all his misery. and if you are happy, then you must be spoiled beyond compare. lol (and loving it !)
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Old 12-01-2009, 03:23 PM   #6
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  Originally Posted by daydreamer
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my brother is a jerk. i've learned a lot from him. most importantly, i've learned, it's no use sucking up to a jerk to try to get on their good side, he doesn't have good sides. the reward is that you get to hang out with him, the jerk, and that pretty much sucks, since he is a jerk.

you will become the retroactively assumed cause of all his misery. lol (and loving it !)

You called your own bro a jerk 4 times? Sounds more like a petty hissy fit with petty name-calling.

And by loving his "supposed" misery, the relationship becomes incestuous.... and you are the victim. He isn't in any misery. He is beating you, using you, fucking you, shooting his load on your face, and laughing at you.

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Old 12-01-2009, 10:45 PM   #7
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I have two older half-siblings whom I very rarely see. I have a very odd and almost uncomfortable relationship with them. They're a bit older than I am and I didn't grow up with them. Whenever I have to talk to them or see them, I almost feel like their kid or their younger cousin instead of their sister.
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Old 12-01-2009, 11:24 PM   #8
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  Originally Posted by legato
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You called your own bro a jerk 4 times? Sounds more like a petty hissy fit with petty name-calling.

And by loving his "supposed" misery, the relationship becomes incestuous.... and you are the victim. He isn't in any misery. He is beating you, using you, fucking you, shooting his load on your face, and laughing at you.

wow, i'm stunned that you'd know such intimate details about my incestuous relationship with my jerk, i mean, brother.

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Old 12-02-2009, 12:36 AM   #9
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My brother wasn't abusive. He was ENTP.

Just kiiiiiiiidding.


Seriously though, he wasn't abusive, so much as temperamental and competitive. He was so competitive that he would lose himself in the competition at times, and I would literally just have to walk away for him to realize how much it was hurting me/stressing me out.

But at least it taught me the value of just walking away.
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Old 12-02-2009, 02:26 AM   #10
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  Originally Posted by daydreamer
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wow, i'm stunned that you'd know such intimate details about my incestuous relationship with my jerk, i mean, brother.

You shouldn't be so easily stunned. You described an incestuous relationship. The details are always the same, no matter which brother it is.

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Old 12-02-2009, 04:51 AM   #11
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  Originally Posted by legato
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And by loving his "supposed" misery, the relationship becomes incestuous.... and you are the victim. He isn't in any misery. He is beating you, using you, fucking you, shooting his load on your face, and laughing at you.

So... how is your relationship with your brother? Or men in general?

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Old 12-02-2009, 06:41 AM   #12
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I'm now 21 and my brother 22 and we don't get along. I think he is a bit ressentfull because I never really allowed i'm to control me and overall foiled all is attemps with manipulation. To this day I know is buttons perfectly and can push them any ways he want.

I have tried to make peace but he still makes a point of harshly attacking any idea that I hold dear and precious so it's not working and probably never will.


  Originally Posted by daydreamer
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i've also learned that in a family if you refuse to be treated badly by someone else in that family, no one else will ever let it go. and they will assume it is your problem. or they will assume that something specific happened, that you should let go after all this time. they might even assume you are jealous of him, and his constant state of misery. they will never understand that it just isn't worth the hassles of dealing with someone so unhappy and ill-tempered. they will rally around him and feel sorry for him and you will become the retroactively assumed cause of all his misery. and if you are happy, then you must be spoiled beyond compare. lol (and loving it !)

I would just like to note that it's not always like this. My mother (bless this brilliant women) always understood the situation pretty well and never really saw it as being one or the other fault.

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Old 12-02-2009, 06:51 AM   #13
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I don't think I would associate with anyone in my family if we weren't related. But we are, so I love them. I'm 24 and I live with my 27 year old brother, his wife and kid. When my 25 y/o sister gets back in country from school with her husband we'll probably all shack up in a big house and split the bills.

I just want to stress, without any messy details, how little we get along as people.
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:00 AM   #14
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  Originally Posted by SpaceCadet
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People speak often of the unhealthy repercussions of a dysfunctional relationship with a parent or even a school yard bully, but what of siblings?

For me I have just realized in the past few years what affect they have had on me. We all had a very dysfunctional childhood in different ways. I am the oldest and because of an alcoholic mother and absent father it was up to me to handle things. Never wanted to but no one else stepped up. Probably didn't do the best job, my strategy at nine years old to end a fight was to get them both pissed off at me so they would stop arguing because I just couldn't take all of the screaming. Probably not the best long term solution but I had so many fires to put out at any given time, I needed the quickest option. I realize now that I was more of a parental figure to them than a sibling. I am the only rational person in the family, they are all highly emotional and we all have extreme difficulty in communicating. No matter what I say, they hear something else. I say (very calmly I might add because I am aware of their sensitivity), "Do you think it's a good idea to let him drive with the baby in the car when he has been drinking? And they hear "You are too stupid to do anything right, ever."

It has caused me a lot of pain and trauma to the point where cutting contact with them has been my only option. It just isn't healthy for me to be around them. They seem to view me as some super human being without any feelings. My sisters are extremely jealous and I am the target of snide comments whenever I am around them. "Oh your toes aren't so pretty when they aren't painted are they?" "Well everything tastes good with that much butter in it" No matter what I do there is some nasty comment to follow. One sister is overweight and the other is not the prettiest. the overweight sister has had so many issues because of it. I can't relate at all. I have always been thin and really she is only about 20 pounds overweight, it's not like she is fat, she just has a different build than I do - why is this my fault? We spoke about it once but and she told me she is jealous and has a hard time dealing with it but she can't control it, it gets the best of her. The other sister was just never popular and hates everything, nasty nasty, nasty personality. My brother told me once that my just walking into a room is intimidating. When two of them are together they belittle the third one who isn't present.

What I am I supposed to do about any of that, really? Should I gain fifty pounds and stop bathing, lose all my self confidence, bitch about the sibling who isn't present so they feel better? It seems like no matter what I do it makes them feel bad about themselves. I just don't get that. I have never compared my self to anyone. I compete with myself.

I feel very sorry for all of them for different reasons, they all have really low self esteem and a victim mentality. I am more of a "play the cards your dealt" kind of person. I have tried and tired and tried and finally I just had to give up and accept the fact they we will never have healthy relationships. The nicer I am, they nastier they are. It's tragic really.

---------- Post added 12-02-2009 at 11:07 AM ----------

  Originally Posted by Rachel45
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I am the oldest daughter in my family. I have two younger sisters. We had the reverse of what you mentioned concerning dominance. The middle sister was the most dominant partially because of her status as the favorite of our narcissistic mother. She continually tried to compete with me and she was physically abusive to my youngest sister. Today, we have no contact with her. This empowerment abuse that my mother inflicted on her has caused her to become somewhat narcissistic. Even if she wanted to make amends, I could not have her in my life. I suffer from PTSD,(mostly as a result of the circumstances our mother put us through,also due to the fact that my sister could get away with doing whatever she wanted)-so being around her causes me to experience symptoms of PTSD-sad,but true....I have not had contact with her for over six years now.

My brother was the one that got away with doing whatever he wanted. All of the girls in my family were really abused but he was the golden child, we wouldn't have food and my drunk mother would buy him a new soccer ball. I always called my mother out on her behavior and I was the troublemaker for saying we should buy food not soccer balls.

Being around any of them gives me PTSD. I drove by our childhood home a couple of years ago and I was whacked out for about three weeks afterwards.

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Old 12-02-2009, 01:05 PM   #15
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  Originally Posted by WoodElf4U
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So... how is your relationship with your brother? Or men in general?

I don't like men, period. Or rather, I should say the young men my age (20). I have respect for men like my father.

I saw my brother masturbate one time. I can't say that THAT didn't turn me on. But no, I'm not attracted to him or any other boys my age.

How 'bout you?

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Old 12-02-2009, 06:48 PM   #16
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  Originally Posted by legato
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I don't like men, period. Or rather, I should say the young men my age (20). I have respect for men like my father.

I saw my brother masturbate one time. I can't say that THAT didn't turn me on. But no, I'm not attracted to him or any other boys my age.

How 'bout you?

I have a younger brother, we get along well. My parents are still married and happy. All four of us can hang out, talk about anything, never fight. I feel sorry for families that don't have that.

I think at your age, you find yourself surrounded by loud, arrogant people. The more you travel and expose yourself to other people, you will find it is not men vs women. People are much more diverse than that.

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Old 12-02-2009, 10:14 PM   #17
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  Originally Posted by legato
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You shouldn't be so easily stunned. You described an incestuous relationship. The details are always the same, no matter which brother it is.

of course i was being flippant and merely acknowledging your nonsensical reply. you're either imagining things, or redefining incest. i've never had an incestuous relationship, with anyone in my family. if you have, you should seek counseling. good luck.

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Old 01-31-2011, 09:27 PM   #18
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Yes, I agree we have to mingle and keep meeting all kinds of people and find our social support and people we like and see there are all kinds out there of every shape and size and age. Trying to find good people to even talk to has always been hard for me. Beyond support groups I wish I knew nice families like yours.

Any words of advice WoodElf on how to meet nice families? The ymca maybe? lol sorta

I'd like to hear more about how your parents influenced you all to get along and be able to hang out, how did you all do that with or without any major problems along with way? And if one of you did something really wrong would they still be behind them? And if they needed help would they help them? Would they give things to each other?

---------- Post added 01-31-2011 at 06:37 PM ----------

Oh, yes, and I forgot to reply also that I can relate to Rachel45, I had to let go about 8 consecutive and 11 on and off years. From a very bad, mean, manipulative, heart stabbing, sister that just wouldn't stop these drama's that affected every relationship I had with other people in my family, she changed they way the look at me and just plays a role in front of people and is total personality disorder N on steriods there for awhile.
I also had a very abusive toxic difficult Nmother that I have not seen now in 15 year range. It's tough, but better.
It's hard to let go of a mother plus a sibling and not have much contact with other siblings.
I only grew up with 1 of them, my brother who just doesn't seem to have much to say to me and seems unhappy with me in some way but won't really talk at all to me and if I try to talk to him he gets all stressed out so it's so cryptic now, like we're wallking a mine field when we email something, making sure every word and meaning are as short and nuetral as possible like I'm a Non-person. And I hat it so bad but I can't say aything to him.
My dad loves me, has never done me wrong, but he also won't ever help me with anything, especially financial, it's like a sin to even ask him so I never do but could have used his help many times, especailly since he's done well.
I just wanted to share how I could relate to alot of what you all are saying.
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Old 02-01-2011, 12:06 AM   #19
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Big family.

Parents: INTJ Dad (though more J and less N and T than me) and ESFJ Mom.

From oldest to youngest:
-I'm the oldest (INTJ).

-slightly younger ISFJ brother - also in college - we get along very well, and always have, unless we're talking ideals. My family has a very conservative background, but I'm definitely still more liberal than him, and this is our main source of arguments, including questioning authority (parents, etc.) and morals. He's also a conflict-avoider. Still a great guy, and though his lack of logic sometimes hurts, he's very practical. Very soft, emotional, and helpful. I've gotten him into some PC games, but he likes musicals, for crying out loud.
-little more young INTJ brother. We've always fought and disagreed (he's a very immature INTJ emotionally, and I haven't made it easy either). However, lately we've been getting along much better, as we have similar interests, and seem to have similar views and personalities (as he's matured, of course).
-then my IxxJ sister. Kind of a social outcast. Extremely organized, and artistic. Sometimes emotional, sometimes cold. Either INFJ or ISTJ, but it's been hard to type her, as she's a very closed person. We've fought a lot. I'm doing my best with her, but one day she hates me, and the next, likes me.
-Next, my second-grade IxFJ sister. She positively adores me, and I like her a lot as well. Extremely bright and articulate, but also shy. When she's happy, she's a great person to be around, and is very sweet and “girly". However, she throws temper tantrums frequently, and won't talk to anyone except occasionally me (when we do, I turn into an INFJ, for some reason).
-Finally, my littlest brother. IxxP is my guess, but too young to tell. Fairly shy, yet very curious, and adventuresome. Not too organized, but the most "boyish" guy in the family. We get along decently, though he can be annoying, and very determined to invade my personal space to get on with what I'm doing, when I'm around. Also looks up to me big-time.

We seem to be an almost solid I and J family. N/S, and T/F more divided, though. And with 3 INTJ-likes in the family, strategy games are the family activity, and sarcastic humor the only humor.
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Old 02-02-2011, 05:23 PM   #20
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Everyone is E but me. Two are ESFP's. It was ... interesting. I think growing up with all Es in the house gave me a lot of E coping skills, but there was also a lot of blame toward me for ways they couldn't understand (why was I always so anti-social?). All those years also made me extremely happy to now have my own life away from them, married to a quiet man in a relatively quiet household (despite our two young boys).

I'll admit though I try my best at civility the two ESFPs annoy me in some ways to this day. I do try to understand my sister, who has good qualities, but my mother, an only child, is at core extremely selfish and consistently does and says things I'd never do/say; I've ceased to be shocked and we'll probably unfortunately never see eye-to-eye.

My in-laws are wonderful; my mother-in-law has served as a surrogate mother in some ways for me for the past 10 years.
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Old 02-02-2011, 05:56 PM   #21
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My parents are toxic. My narcissistic dad like to play me (I'm the oldest) against my sister. It nearly ruined our relationship. It was triangulation at it's best. And I totally bought into it for years. I did not treat my sister well. In therapy I learned to quit playing those games, cut ties with my parents, and over the past 12 years have worked to rebuild the relationship with my INTJ sister. We are close now. I talk to her almost daily on the phone, we text often, my kids adore her and all is good.
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:29 PM   #22
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I don't hate any of my siblings, and none of them hate me. I can even be around 3/4 of them for long periods of time.
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:34 PM   #23
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I've got one older brother (3.5 years older) and we've never gotten along as far back as I can remember. We fought all the time when we were little and got in some decent knock-down brawls in our teens/20's. We live on opposite coasts now and have pretty much nothing to do with each other. It kind of sucks when I think about it as I would prefer we had a better relationship, but so far it just hasn't been worth the hassle of dealing with him so I don't put a lot of effort into it.
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Old 02-04-2011, 07:59 PM   #24
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Father is an INFP and mother is an ENFJ. They are divorced and my step dad, who I consider a second father, is an ISFP. I have three siblings: my twenty-one year old sister who is an ESFP and my two younger ones who are too young to type (a four year old brother, and two year old sister). I am eighteen.

Growing up with my sister and my mother was hell. My mother was constantly trying to control my sister who was constantly trying to piss off my mother. She always needed attention and because of that and the fact that I was the easy child who just did her own thing, my mother always put all of her energy into trying to placate my sister. My sister also tried to be controlling but then when she realized that I wasn't going to deal with her shit mostly left me alone unless she needed emotional reassurance about her latest boyfriend. My mother, who grew up with a bipolar mother, exhibited a lot of the same behaviors that her mother did.

Now that my sister has moved out and my mother is dealing with her childhood issues, things have pretty much calmed down. I have finally been able to communicate with my mother effectively and our relationship has improved. I think she started to make much more of an effort with me when she realized that she knew absolutely nothing about me and she was kind of shocked by my intelligence and knowledge of the most random shit. While her and my sister's relationship is much more mother and daughter ours seem to be a relationship of equals. Perhaps that has to do with the fact that she seemed to be too preoccupied with my sister to raise me.

Now that we are adults I try to avoid my sister as much as possible. She is a horrible, manipulative slut and she wants so badly to be the "older and wiser adult". Of course this is always hilarious because everyone knows that I am the one that actually has her life together. Yet at the same time she only calls me when it serves her to do so and at the end always seems to be able to ruin my day and make me feel like crap because it makes her feel better about herself. So when I finally move out of my mother's house then I will have no reason why I have to be civil towards her and can finally have her out of my life.
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Old 02-07-2011, 12:06 AM   #25
Paul Siraisi
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I'm an older sibling and plagued by remorse for my effect on my younger brother.

---------- Post added 02-06-2011 at 09:10 PM ----------

  Originally Posted by legato
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You called your own bro a jerk 4 times? Sounds more like a petty hissy fit with petty name-calling.

And by loving his "supposed" misery, the relationship becomes incestuous.... and you are the victim. He isn't in any misery. He is beating you, using you, fucking you, shooting his load on your face, and laughing at you.

Jeez. You're pretty rude.

---------- Post added 02-06-2011 at 09:13 PM ----------

  Originally Posted by legato
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You described an incestuous relationship. The details are always the same, no matter which brother it is.

She did? They are? I take it you have some expertise?

---------- Post added 02-06-2011 at 09:19 PM ----------

  Originally Posted by eibuos
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"Do you think it's a good idea to let him drive with the baby in the car when he has been drinking? And they hear "You are too stupid to do anything right, ever."

That's what they should hear. That's what I'd hear if someone pointed out I was doing that. Behavior like that = short leash required.

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