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MARRIAGE - Logical reasons logic, marriage
Old 11-28-2009, 03:14 PM   #1
newstyle120
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Reasons for getting married.

1. Business (tax incentives, stability, standard of living, inheritance, etc.)

2. Tradition/pressure (your parents, grandparents and everyone else are probably married)

3. Religion (don't get me started)

4. Attention (planning the wedding, getting gifts, ceremony, "isn't she beautiful?", etc.)

5. Not knowing what else to do (you both love and are comitted to each other, now what?)

It seems to me that there is no rational reason other than business to get married. You want to have babies? Go right on ahead. You love each other and want the world to know, OK. You want to be with each other forever? Rather long term forcast but give it a shot.

Even the business aspect is a risky venture at best, who knows what financial pitfalls and hardships lay ahead.

GIVE ME LOGICAL REASONS TO GET MARRIED
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Old 11-28-2009, 03:20 PM   #2
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You've pretty much hit them all. While I was growing up I watch others go through extreme hardships in their marriages, with many of them ending up in divorce. This has made me very reluctant to get married. If I ever do consider getting married, I absolutely will not take the next step until a detailed prenuptial agreement is signed by myself and my SO.
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Old 11-28-2009, 03:23 PM   #3
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Seems like it used to make you try harder to stay together. It signified commitment and the idea that you would be together forever. Nowadays it seems to have lost a lot of that.
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Old 11-28-2009, 03:25 PM   #4
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Logic is a process. Premises are not logical. Start with the premise that there's value in public rituals to express and deepen your bond with someone, and it logically follows that marriage is one of your options.

The premises here come more from your values than anything. If saving money is one of your values, then the "business" aspect of marriage might be appealing (as might a pre-nuptial agreement), and marriage might be a logical step to take.

So, it seems to me that the question ought to be reframed: what values and premises lead to marriage as a logical step to take in a relationship?

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 11-28-2009, 03:33 PM   #5
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Reasons 2-5 don't seem logical to me, and #1 only exists because of legislation that was passed, in all likelihood, because of the preconceived notion that "marriage is good and right."

I was in a monogamous relationship for 10 years that never resulted in marriage... a good thing, too, because we eventually grew apart and into very different people. I don't see any logical reason for marriage.
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Old 11-28-2009, 03:50 PM   #6
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You may not have found that "right" person yet, when you do, you may find that there is a certain fullfillment/satisfaction in " mutually committing" to each other in the most substantial & tangible way society offers, as some of us have. Or not.
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Old 11-28-2009, 04:56 PM   #7
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A better question to ask might be 'why commit for the rest of your life?' rather than 'why marry?'

Assuming you have a complete commitment, even if you grow into different people, you agree to stand by each other and know that at least that one person will always be with you. Plus, if you have children, you owe it to them to stay together, and it makes both of your lives easier, not to mention, your kids' lives better.
Being able to maintain a long term relationship does require maturity however.

Overall marriage just means that you have decided you are going to do your best to be together for the rest of your lives, and that allows you to be more open and have a deeper relationship than if you are intentionally keeping your options open.
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Old 11-28-2009, 06:07 PM   #8
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For me it was giving away most of my thing, and all my money to someone I hated.
The thing about it, by then I was glad to pay. Just to be none with her.
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Old 11-28-2009, 07:37 PM   #9
Zombicide
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  Originally Posted by newstyle120
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you both love and are comitted to each other, now what?

Isn't this all one really needs? All of this needing others, including an imaginary man in the sky, to validate one's relationship stuff devalues the relationship "Oh, our relationship isn't complete or legitimate without going through a bunch of bull shit for other people ... and an imaginary being". You're right, there aren't any genuine reasons for it, I'm rightfully offended by the very concept of having to need the state, friends & family or this "God" creature people speak of to validate my relationships. Hephner doesn't let the state tell him how many wives or whatever one wants to call it he can and cannot have. It's a stupid concept that somehow marriage "makes it official". Figuratively I am already married to any hypothetically existing people I would be in such a relationship with, I refuse to give credence to the state's alleged matrimonial "authority". If other's want to continue to volunteer to participate in the state's or their culture's marriage game, fine by me and if the state or whatever wants to continue to play that game, it's got nothing to do with me as long as they aren't interfering with my business.

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Old 11-28-2009, 07:51 PM   #10
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I see way more negatives to marriage than positives, and the positives are coerced.

What bothers me is the most is the legal shortcomings that promote marriage. The government has laws and benefits for heterosexual couples to get married, get a house, and have kids.

What happens if you remove marriage from that lifestyle or if you stay single? It costs you. It really does.

...and slightly off-topic, but I have to say it as it is related to government promotion of a lifestyle - people who rent also get screwed. Live in a big city where you could never own? You are screwed. No tax write-offs for you.
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Old 11-28-2009, 09:54 PM   #11
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Well, I've never been married but have been in LTRs and what I got out of them was having companionship. I also learned stuff from the men I was with and they gave me new perspectives on situations. They also pointed out traits I had, good and bad, not so much as criticism but just how they saw me.

I'd throw out the word "marriage" and would be perfectly fine with the word "civil union" on the legal side. But I do believe that long-term committment has many advantages.

I agree with what Zsych posted as well.
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Old 11-29-2009, 02:28 AM   #12
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Logical reasons to get married:

Tax incentives.

Legal responsibility.

That about covers it. Couples get tax benefits, and both partners are held in legal responsibility for the other -- should the other do something terribly crappy to you, you have some legal ground to sue for damages.
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Old 11-29-2009, 02:35 AM   #13
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  Originally Posted by cannotseethe
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So, it seems to me that the question ought to be reframed: what values and premises lead to marriage as a logical step to take in a relationship?

I agree with this.

I value a stable family and a lifelong committment because it leads to a better environment for children and a happier and less stresful and, hopefully, more fulfilling life for myself. Marriage just so happens to be a lifelong committment. Thus, marraige is logical.

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Old 11-29-2009, 03:07 AM   #14
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Peace of mind coming from a social symbol and legal contract that represents a high level of comittment. It is a like a formal declaration of comittment, which brings peace of mind to those involved and makes the future just a tad more predictable, which allows for better risk-management. Pretty rational if you ask me.
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Old 11-29-2009, 05:58 AM   #15
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In the past, marriage served a number of important purposes. It would not have occurred to most people to question the institution's value to all parties concerned -- man, woman, child, and community. "Give me a logical reason for marriage" is a question that would have made most people laugh. Marriage was a very successful way to legitimize and channel sex for the benefit of all. Many marriages were unhappy, of course, but the difficulty of divorce and the advantages of marriage tended to force people to adjust their expectations and shoulder its burdens as best they could. The thing worked, more or less.

But in our time, rapid changes in technology, culture, and law have liberated people to pursue their happiness more or less however they please, and this has diminished marriage's perceived advantages over the single life, and increasingly made the institution seem irrational, oppressive, and (to the extent it is truly binding on the parties) intolerable.

My own view is that, because of the various modern revolutions -- which have brought about a world in which more or less all of the old stigma has been removed from non-marital states (being unmarried, getting divorced), and even breaking one's marriage vows is something only "intolerant, judgmental" people condemn -- marriage is already dead as an institution. Our society just hasn't woken up to the fact. Marriage persists mostly from inertia. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if marriage basically ceases to exist (that is, the vast majority of people won't even bother to get married, they'll just move in and out of cohabitational relationships) within the lifetimes of today's children. I say this as one who laments this development.
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Old 11-29-2009, 06:09 AM   #16
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Besides the one's you have listed; it is statistically shown to increase happiness and it sends a message to others that you are secure in your relationship and not willing to say switch if the right person comes along.
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Old 11-29-2009, 07:58 AM   #17
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These days, if you're not sure about your relationship... marriage has a lot of disincentives. The legal trouble if things don't work out is sufficient reason to avoid the thing.

Marriage should not be entered into without surety that both partners are in it for the long haul. Also, in theory, I think people shouldn't have children if they're not planning to stay together for the long haul.
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Old 11-29-2009, 01:21 PM   #18
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The "business" part is more complex than you make out.

It protects the "business" of children--provides instant parentage, the legal obligation to support and protect, the rights of the parent to make choices for the child (rather than the state or grandparents making those choices). It puts the children in the line of inheritance/succession. All of these material things have emotional and social consequences to you, your partner, the kids, their friends, their teachers, etc.

Marriage does some of the same things for the partners--giving them the legal obligation to support and protect, the right to make choices if the partner is disabled from doing so, the right of inheritance. All of which also have similar emotional and social consequences.

Plus lots of other stuff when they are disabled/very sick/out of communication for some reason/dead, like: You get to visit your partner in the hospital, even if the partner's parents think you are creepy. If they are sick/disabled, you make the choices about what happens next. You, rather than their parents, get to inherit their collection of idiosyncratic crap when they die. You get to name the puppies. You can legally drive their car. The people at the grocery store/work/whatever, know you and your partner, and can cater to the partner through you. In general, you become your partner's "second" in everything of material, financial, legal consequence.

It is possible to re-create some of this with elaborate, well thought-out, very expensive contracts, but much of it cannot be created by contract. For example, you cannot use a contract or do anything to get your partner onto your work health and dental insurance and get the lower family rates by contract, so you pay about 20 to 40 percent more for two "single" policies of insurance, which are used to subsidize the "family" rates of married couples. So, you just pay more. You do not get the "married" lower tax rates, and the fed/state gov't tax expenses takes bigger bites from both of you. You do not get the lower "family" rate at the health club, community center, recreation center, public parks, Costco, etc. So business takes bigger bites from each of you.....

Interestingly, males who are married live, on average, longer than unmarried men. Just a correlation, not clear that there is causation. A simple hypothesis is that its better to have a partner care for you. Which might be the explanation for why men in in
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... two wives is even better than one. ...
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Old 11-29-2009, 03:05 PM   #19
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if you really care for and love someone, and you want to make sure that they know it, marriage can be the only way to make sure. if something happened to me, i never want my husband to look back on our time together and think, i wonder why she was against marrying me, at any time during the rest of his life.

---------- Post added 11-29-2009 at 12:08 PM ----------

  Originally Posted by cannotseethe
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So, it seems to me that the question ought to be reframed: what values and premises lead to marriage as a logical step to take in a relationship?

leaving no doubt as to my feelings.

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