[Ytterbium]

How do you feel when people talk languages around you. Whom you don't understand? Same goes for written text. I wonder because it's frowned upon in the rules of this forum. Whereas at some other forumentral.com it's just whatever.
Does it feel like they're hiding something or that you don't have any control of what's happening?

Any thoughts?

[Jgib5328]

	Originally Posted by Ytterbium To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How do you feel when people talk languages around you. Whom you don't understand? Same goes for written text. I wonder because it's frowned upon in the rules of this forum. Whereas at some other forumentral.com it's just whatever. Does it feel like they're hiding something or that you don't have any control of what's happening? Any thoughts?

It is annoying when people do that. I mean it's like there is almost no reason for someone to speak a different language in front of you, unless they don't want you to hear something, but that is rude. They should realize that it makes another person uneasy. I really think people shouldn't do that sort of thing, it's insulting. I'd be interested in hearing the other side though.

[ssfanatic]

I think its obnoxious. I type in english, this forum is english, so why dont we all type in english. Often in think it just aids in their ego trip.

[Ytterbium]

	Originally Posted by Jgib5328 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It is annoying when people do that. I mean it's like there is almost no reason for someone to speak a different language in front of you, unless they don't want you to hear something, but that is rude. They should realize that it makes another person uneasy. I really think people shouldn't do that sort of thing, it's insulting. I'd be interested in hearing the other side though.

I've never seen it that way. I grew up bilingual, so it was natural speaking two languages, switching now and then.
When I go out to get a take away and there're foreign owners/workers. I haven't reacted when the speak to eachother in their mother tongue. If I order a pizza the cashier turns to his friend and says shabballa blala pizza bla whatever. I don't see that as insulting. Although he could say some nasty things about my mother or something.

[nightfire]

	Originally Posted by Ytterbium To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How do you feel when people talk languages around you. Whom you don't understand? Same goes for written text. I wonder because it's frowned upon in the rules of this forum. Whereas at some other forumentral.com it's just whatever. Does it feel like they're hiding something or that you don't have any control of what's happening? Any thoughts?

Knowing more languages, especially more commonly used ones, is always very rewarding in such situations
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Especially if it is not known to others (people usually feel very safe talking in their native language - a bad habit, I can tell from my experience).

And don't be that harsh about other languages, especially if what is spoken/written has clearly nothing to do with you. The world is (still) a multilingual place.

[AgentofGaming]

I only write/talk in another language, to be able to express myself better. Sometimes there's meanings in other languages that can not be expressed perfectly in English.
Really it's only for better communication, not to talk behind someone's back.

I do understand that others may feel alienated, that's why I always provide a translation in brackets with several possible interpretations of the words in English whenever I write in another language.
I try my best to make sure no one is really left out.

[Zilal]

That doesn't bother me, but I am reluctant to communicate with foreigners (either in English or my feeble Spanish or by, I don't know, hand gestures)... I feel like I'm so bad socially already that putting up another roadblock to communication is just too much. So I'll avoid contact with people who seem foreign... which sounds terrible now than I type it. But it's just shyness.

[Jezebel]

	Originally Posted by Ytterbium To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How do you feel when people talk languages around you. . . I wonder because it's frowned upon in the rules of this forum.

The purpose of a forum is discussion, and we want as many members as possible to be able to participate in each discussion. Every member here is able to understand English, while only small groups of members will be able to understand posts made in other languages. It only makes sense that each post be made in the language all members understand so nobody is excluded due to language barriers. It isn't a matter of insecurity, but rather, promoting discussion by using the same common language.

That said, I have nothing against those able to speak multiple languages. I find it to be an admirable ability.

[PRBori]

	Originally Posted by Ytterbium To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How do you feel when people talk languages around you. Whom you don't understand? Same goes for written text. I wonder because it's frowned upon in the rules of this forum. Whereas at some other forumentral.com it's just whatever. Does it feel like they're hiding something or that you don't have any control of what's happening? Any thoughts?

I'm bilingual so this doesn't bother me. In addition, I can understand most languages that are similar to Spanish...

This actually reminds me of something that happened to me when I was 19. I was a manager for McDonald's, quite young, and I had an older employee who was originally from Sierra Leon, so she spoke "CRIO" which is basically a mix of english and french. Now, for some reason she didn't like the fact that I was her boss, so she started talking negatively about me to a friend..

Little did she knew, I understood everything she said so I confronted her in front of her friend. She was like yeah, whatever... so I told her to try me... hehehe... she did, and I translated everything she said back to English... she was astonished to learn that I understood her... after that day, she never, ever said anything else about me and best of all she would do everything I asked her without arguing...

Yeah, well I've being on my own since 16 and one of my roomates was from the same country, she always spoke to me in "CRIO" because she wanted me to learn it and become fluent... of course, now I can't remember much.. but at the time it came quite handy...

So my advice is to be careful what you say because there may be someone around you that understands...


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[coffeeloverfreak]

Why should it bother you? If you look at it that way, you're being equally rude for speaking English in front of people who don't understand it, too! After all, it's all relative.

Coming from a place where switching back and forth between French and English among a group of friends mid-sentence is a common occurrance, I guess I don't think about it much. I live in a multicultural city, and walking down the street I'll typically hear 6-7 languages in a single city block. People aren't being rude by speaking other languages; they're just talking.

If it really bugs you so much, learn more languages.

[Ytterbium]

Originally Posted by Jezebel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The purpose of a forum is discussion, and we want as many members as possible to be able to participate in each discussion. Every member here is able to understand English, while only small groups of members will be able to understand posts made in other languages. It only makes sense that each post be made in the language all members understand so nobody is excluded due to language barriers. It isn't a matter of insecurity, but rather, promoting discussion by using the same common language. That said, I have nothing against those able to speak multiple languages. I find it to be an admirable ability.

I was wondering because I never seen these rules in other forums before. Both "foreign" and English. It's the same if some one posts a math problem. Either I ask for an explaination, google it or just leave it. It's the same if someone posts words of wisdom in Latin. If someone uses more fine English words I never heard of. I don't ask them to use simple English so that everyone understands. I just look them up.
I don't say that admins shall translate everything. If someone feels bad because of something someone else have written. It's just to PM an admin. It don't have to be foreign to miss it.

So I was just asking because not everybody "gets" everything. We can't lower our standards because of that. But we can explain if someone asks for it.
So I was wondering if you other INTJs had a problem with it, because I never seen it before. Since I don't mind if someone writes a welcome phrase in Mongolian. That would be very cool.

[rwyatt365]

People writing, or speaking in languages other than my own native English is fascinating to me. I try to pick out things (phrases, or words) that are repeated and then try to gauge what they mean in the context of the conversation. Most times it's unintelligible, but sometimes I can catch a word or two.

I do this often when watching subtitled movies, or listening to music sung in a different language.

As far at this discussion's relevance to the forum, I think that the general discussions are "biased" towards English because that is the de-facto "standard" (and the language of the forum's creator). I won't contravene what Jezebel has already said on this point, but I will offer my own personal opinion; if you're engaging in a conversation with a general audience then you shuold target the conversation to that audience's needs (in this case, English). If you're having a strictly private conversation then you can tailor it to that audience (French, Spanish, Icelandic, Yiddish, etc...). If we started conversing in English and you linguistically "switch gears", it's only polite to ask if I can continue the conversation - otherwise, you are intentionally alienating me.

[Antares]

I wouldn't mind if I were in France and everyone speaks French (Perhaps this is not a fair example seeing I can speak French quite fluently, but lets just assume I can't), not English or my native languages around me. In fact, I wouldn't mind if Koreans in China speaks korean around me as though I don't exist. I don't think I have the need to be 'involved' unless I want to be, and knowing that they can speak English but is speaking their language for other purposes. Then I'd consider that rude. I'd be quite interested in knowing what someone is saying in a foreign language if they're focusing their attention on me, though. Although, judging by their expressions, tone and posture, I can tell vaguely.

[Chainsaw Dundee]

Doesn't confront me. Body language is a more prominent part of communication than words. For example, if you've got a couple Puerto Ricans(I use them as an example because they are fucking crazy) with rigid posture, talking amongst each other in hushed tones, stalking you like buzzards, you might have a reason to be suspicious. If you have several Japanese girls looking at you and giggling, they probably want to do you. If Thai girls are doing the same thing, odds are they aren't really girls, so exercise discretion.

If it really bothers you, then it might not hurt to have a bit of basic knowledge in several foreign languages. Me, Im only fluent in English, but I've got a grasp of about about 5 other languages.

[Ytterbium]

I think it's a strange world view. If English speakers and speakers from other large languages only experience their own language. It must be a shock to know that's there another world around you. I don't know how many people are actually very aware of that the most of world can communicate in English. It doesn't mean that the rest of the world know everything of your English speaking world. So even though there's a common language there're not really much in common to talk about. So when Americans talk about tax or Brits talk about their queen.
They're alienating us international members just as much.

[Learning]

I'm familiar (somewhat) with only a few other languages. I have also known a few people who don't speak any English, or speak it as a second language (which needless to say can be challenging for them & those they are trying to communicate with).

Having said that, I guess it depends on the circumstances whether or not I would consider it rude. If people do speak a common language, though, it just makes sense for that to be the one used. To purposefully speak another language with the intention of excluding others (especially in an established group setting) does seem rude & counterproductive (in any group- be it online or IRL).

To say the least, it's cliquish... making it inappropriate for a mature, group setting. This is ideally where PM's & such are handy if the discussion were taking place on a forum.

May I ask what the benefit of speaking another language in situations like these would be?

[futureperfect5]

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You think that they are trying to hide something?

Why do you care what other people are doing?
Languages (other than code) were created for general communication.
In ancient times forward, it was quite common in arranged marriages to have the bride or husband not speak the same language.

Still, I hear you feeling left out ...
Don't take it personally.
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It is natural for some people to switch back and forth between languages.
Actually, I think many of the people who are writing that they are bilingual are fluent actually -- unless they learned the language in childhood. Even then, there is often a dominant language.

Bilingual is like having two separate databases that are input-activated -- very little interface between them. Fluency is like adding custom words to your spell checker ... you have acquired a second set of words and grammar to use. One involves translating. Bilingualism seldom does. In fact, the bilingual is the person who can speak with very little apparent difference in inflection, tone, or accent. Bilingualism is difficult to achieve after the early years, usually -- except through these intensive study or full immersion courses.

[Yes, I am bilingual and also fluent in a third language.]

[Ytterbium]

	Originally Posted by Learning To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	May I ask what the benefit of speaking another language in situations like these would be?

In the forum or in real life. I was thinking about when meating someone from your own country. Let say an American is in Italy talking with two Italians, then he meets another American. I don't think these to Americans would greet eachother in broken Italian. Just because not risking to alienate the Italians. Neither would any other peoples of different languages and nationalities. So I found the rules strange, because it's not allowed to do so here.
For me it feels natural for peoples of speaking the same language to speak that to eachother. I do it myself and I don't mind other people if they do that too. It's a way to bond with compatriots. The native English speakers does it all the time. "Oh so you're from the UK too, I'm from London". They may hint, have their jokes and express their culture. Which other people can't do, simply because many things gets lost in translation. Some may not get what we Scandinavians talk about even though it's written in English. It's the same other way around, we don't "get" all what you others write either.

[eMachine]

I speak only English and I am rather ashamed of this. I hope to learn some of the basics of other languages, probably in the process of my children learning them, since they will be homeschooled by my husband and I (we'll probably have to find foreign language tutors to help us).

Generally, I think it would be presumptious and arrogant of me to expect 2 other people whose first language is not english to speak only english in my presence when they can more clearly communicate with eachother in their own language. I may expect them to try to explain to me what they've said, if they want me to be involved in the conversation as well, but it's really not their responsibility to make up for my shortcomings.

Once, when my husband and I were visiting with his brother for a holiday, they started discussing things like Trigonometry and Physics, which they both knew I would not understand. I did not find them rude for doing so, and just tried to pick up whatever bits and pieces of the conversation that I could loosely grasp. After a while, they changed the topic and started speaking 'my language' and again I was involved. I didn't expect them to 'dumb down' their conversation for my sake.

I'm aware that many people in other countries are now required or encouraged to learn English, it makes it easy for the rest of us to be uneducated. Many people who speak english as a second language actually seem to understand it and speak it better than say, the average american.

Anyway, I understand why English is required on this forum, I would not want to be left out of a topic that I could contribute to because 2 or 3 people speak a different language. But I wouldn't be offended by a few short comments in another language, for instance if two people were greeting eachother in their native language and then continued 'on-topic' discussion in English.

[futureperfect5]

The United States have oodles of people who speak oodles of languages as their native tongue -- including Italian.

It is somewhat, okay VERY, presumptuous to think that Nationality = one language, especially in America.
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AMERICANS have been multi-cultural since the day the Vikings landed -- and, that other guy from Spain.

NOTHING is foreign.
We are a country of FOREIGNERS.
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Have FUN
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with it ...

[Tenacious B]

I'm the only native English speaker in my office, and therefore the only one who doesn't speak at least 2 languages. It was a little weird at first, but once I got to know the people and become friends I could care less. Some things are easier said in their native tongue, and often I find foreign languages in the background are lest distracting to me than English. It is easier to ignore when I can't understand it.

In a forum like this I think it is a bit rude to use a minority language (which depends on the forum's membership). I moderate a few forums with international membership, having local subforums gives people a place to discuss their region in their language. The key is to have a native speaker of each prominent language on the staff to sniff out any revolutionary plots.
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[Shadow]

I don't mind if people speak other languages around me, I just assume they prefer to speak in their first language. Probably because I grew up around my parents speaking German or Tagalog to their friends.

[eternaltriangle]

I am okay with peopel speaking other languages - what I dislike is the fetishization of the study of other languages in American universities. One of the perks of empire is supposed to be that everybody else learns your language, dammit! Languages are increasingly useless because everybody speaks English. People should learn math instead.