[darynthe]

I witnessed yesterday a very spoilt cat attack his owner when she was helping to make sleep a baby in a party. He had always been like a teddy bear, doing nothing, being at home, never out.

He had attacked her before on the same situation previously, when a baby had been vistiting.

My friend is pregnant maybe she will have to get rid of her beloved cat for the risk it may pose to her future baby.

I wonder now if animals can feel similar emotions than humans, except with less control?

Have you seen this before? I heard of a very similar case for another friend who had a baby.

[Kisai]

Rather than considering humans one class and animals another and then marvelling at the similarities of animals to humans, it makes more sense to consider humans animals and consider much of our characteristics, such as personality, sexual selection, behavior and emotions as not being dissimilar from our bretheren.

[Silverity]

My friend's cat attacks her husband every time he tries to cuddle with her XD Before they were together the wandering cat found my friend, leapt into her arms and just kept nuzzling and licking her face. She adores her kitty and her husband puts up with it but they have to watch what they're doing when the feline is around =P

[MikeC]

Anyone who has cats and/or dogs know full well that animals have the emotional capacity of jealousy, among others.

[Talkahuano]

We actually tested this on my cat. When my parents come home from work, they always give me and my sis a hug and then pet the kitty. One day, we hugged for about 45 seconds and the cat just stood there, then started meowing like "what about me? Me! ME ME ME!" He sprawled out on the floor and when that didn't get him attention, he tried scratching at us.
Then we gave him a snack lol
But yeah, definitely they get jealous.

[Nemesis]

I haven't checked out the primary source, but I thought this article may be interesting...


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[thod]

Sure they can, if you feed one dog treats and ignore the other it will get jealous. This indicates they have a sense of fair play.

[SelfMadeBum]

I'm not sure if Thod's example of fair play denotes jealousy, but hell yeah dogs (and cats) experience jealousy.

[Lucky]

Horses can get jealous. A while ago I had two geldings that were half brothers and they both wanted me to give them attention and they tried to chase each other away from me.

[combustor]

I saw a study that confirmed that dogs have a sense of fairness, but not equity. Meaning if you give one dog a treat and no treat to a dog next to it, the treatless dog gets "jealous" and eventually responds negatively to the owner. However, if you were to give one dog a milk-bone and the other a ribeye, it doesn't know the difference.

[SelfMadeBum]

	Originally Posted by combustor To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I saw a study that confirmed that dogs have a sense of fairness, but not equity. Meaning if you give one dog a treat and no treat to a dog next to it, the treatless dog gets "jealous" and eventually responds negatively to the owner. However, if you were to give one dog a milk-bone and the other a ribeye, it doesn't know the difference.

I remember reading that a while ago and found it interesting.

It's true, by the way. The dog only registers that it has received some treat, the quality of the treat is unimportant.

I also remember that it was tied to the dog performing a specific trick or command. If you give one dog a command, and upon being obeyed, gave it a treat while another looked on, then issued a command to the second dog with compliance and no treat, after repeating this for a couple of rotations, the second dog will stop responding to the commands.

Interesting.

[daydreamer]

my dog was very jealous when i brought home some finches. he didn't attack me or the birds but any time i came near their cages, he would try to block my path. he'd try to be as charming as possible smiling and beaming, little happy barks and playful jumps, and finally if he had to he'd resort to bumping me with his chest to try to knock me off balance. he'd pretend like he wanted to play but really he just wanted the attention that he knew i was giving them.

he got more used to the birds as time went on, but eventually, as the birds started to die, he was the first one to bring it to my attention that they were acting strange (or that one of them was dead.) i think he grew to like them on some level, at least he recognized their importance to me, but he still was either jealous of the attention i gave them or that he couldn't really participate in my enjoyment of them.

i dunno about cats. but dogs can definitely be jealous. some even hold grudges ! luckily mine doesn't.
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[darynthe]

	Originally Posted by Nemesis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I haven't checked out the primary source, but I thought this article may be interesting... To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Thanks for the link. Ok, now this tells more about human beings than about animals, IMHO.
Emotions then are 100% instinctual! This may mean that the F types may be more in contact with their physical body. And besides, that machines will never have emotions as these are not cognitive but rather part of the genetic makeup of animals!

[Cthulhu]

I have a pet parrot. Mine isn't too bad as far as jealousy goes, but I know a couple of other bird owners who have horror stories about things their bird has done when they've shown affection to someone in front of their birds.

[Elena]

Hell yes!
I have two rabbits and if I cuddle and kiss and pet one, the female most of the time comes over and bites the male and scratches him.
Then I do the oppostite with the female being cuddled, the male looks with I think envy in his eyes.

[brdmadgrl82]

	Originally Posted by Cthulhu To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I have a pet parrot. Mine isn't too bad as far as jealousy goes, but I know a couple of other bird owners who have horror stories about things their bird has done when they've shown affection to someone in front of their birds.

What type of parrot? I have two Solomon Islands Eclectus Parrots...the female was a new addition. The male is very jelous when I give her attention because he still associates me as his mate...in fact when he is sitting on my arm and my husband walks by he makes a funny growl and tries to beak him...he does the same to the female when I am near...It's a bad habbit I am still trying to break (by no means do I encourage the mating behavior toward me)...yep alot of animals get jelous...(at least the ones with slightly more developed brains).

[altoid]

I have two dogs, and they very much seem to display at least a sense of wanting their fair share of treats/attention/play/whatever. If I'm paying attention to my smaller one and ignore the larger one's demands for attention, she'll often go shred trash for me.
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[Night Runner]

If animals are capable of loving, why wouldn't they be capable of other, lesser emotions?..

[Bluesea]

There are cases of cats lying on babies and being a potential risk to the baby's ability to breathe. A friend of mine said their cat used to climb up into the crib and sleep on the baby - not on it's face but they caught it a couple of times and had to police the situation. Not sure if it was about jealousy could have been the warm body but is still a risk to be aware of if the cat sleeps on the baby's head.

[whitey]

	Originally Posted by MikeC To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Anyone who has cats and/or dogs know full well that animals have the emotional capacity of jealousy, among others.

Exactly.

My male dog gets jealous when I give attention and affection to my female dog and he will actually attempt to push her out of the way so that my focus is on him only. I just volunteered to house a 2-3 months old stray male pit yesterday and it's the same thing. My female pit is about as smart as they come and she just avoids getting in the way of the not so bright older male (probably because some POS beat him in the head hard enough to cause a permanent hematoma).

Slight tangent: I have a hard time with the issue of using animals for research in which I wouldn't want the experimental procedures done on myself. It's abundantly clear from my education and research that animals experience most if not all of the same emotions as humans.

[admittedheretic]

I've observed what I would consider jealousy in both cats and dogs as well.

Even if you pet two dogs at the same time they will sometimes get jealous.

[whitey]

	Originally Posted by combustor To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I saw a study that confirmed that dogs have a sense of fairness, but not equity. Meaning if you give one dog a treat and no treat to a dog next to it, the treatless dog gets "jealous" and eventually responds negatively to the owner. However, if you were to give one dog a milk-bone and the other a ribeye, it doesn't know the difference.

Can you cite the study for me because this is curious (the equity issue) and I would almost question the methods used or the generalization of the results from that group of subjects. In most behavioral literature it's recognized that different forms of reinforcement (praise, bone, meat, water,etc.) have different values to each respective organism. One of my own dogs will suck down any food you give her. She's not picky as long as it fills her belly. The other dog will actually leave his food in the bowl and watch/beg for the food that I am eating.

---------- Post added 11-17-2009 at 12:56 AM ----------

Originally Posted by SelfMadeBum To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I remember reading that a while ago and found it interesting. It's true, by the way. The dog only registers that it has received some treat, the quality of the treat is unimportant. I also remember that it was tied to the dog performing a specific trick or command. If you give one dog a command, and upon being obeyed, gave it a treat while another looked on, then issued a command to the second dog with compliance and no treat, after repeating this for a couple of rotations, the second dog will stop responding to the commands. Interesting.

I completely disagree. Behavioral studies show that the quality of a form of reinforcement is a critical factor in maintaining stimulus control over behavior. Animals and humans will work harder and longer for stronger forms of reinforcement.

As far as the remainder of your comment you are simply describing two different schedules for each dog. The first dog is on a fixed ratio 1 schedule which means that for every instance of a target behavior, reinforcement (food in this case) is delivered. The second dog is on an extinction schedule, meaning that zero reinforcement is delivered even if a target behavior occurs. When engaging in a behavior over and over with no reinforcement the behavior extinguishes because it does not produce reinforcement any more.

It's like when an asshole beats a dog. The dog may initially attempt to attack or defend itself. But if it suffers a bad enough beating (termed punishment in behaviorism), repetitively regardless of defensive behaviors, it will stop engaging in those behaviors because it never obtains reinforcement (in this case escaping the beating is negative reinforcement). Typically you'll see a lack of bodily control and the animal freezes and defecates or urinates in place. It's taken me a while to de-condition my male pit from urinating (sudden movements and loud voices "NO!) when he gets scared.

I really think a lot of the INTJ's ought to check out learning psychology and behaviorism. Behaviorism is literally the empirical science of behavior. There's nothing like being able to read other people like an open book. Any poker fiends can use it to make some money. Trust me
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[Undead Bonzi]

#1. a human is an animal

#2. a human can feel jealousy

thus, if both one and two are true, it follows that an animal can feel jealousy.

[SelfMadeBum]

Originally Posted by whitey To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Can you cite the study for me because this is curious (the equity issue) and I would almost question the methods used or the generalization of the results from that group of subjects. In most behavioral literature it's recognized that different forms of reinforcement (praise, bone, meat, water,etc.) have different values to each respective organism. One of my own dogs will suck down any food you give her. She's not picky as long as it fills her belly. The other dog will actually leave his food in the bowl and watch/beg for the food that I am eating. I completely disagree. Behavioral studies show that the quality of a form of reinforcement is a critical factor in maintaining stimulus control over behavior. Animals and humans will work harder and longer for stronger forms of reinforcement. As far as the remainder of your comment you are simply describing two different schedules for each dog. The first dog is on a fixed ratio 1 schedule which means that for every instance of a target behavior, reinforcement (food in this case) is delivered. The second dog is on an extinction schedule, meaning that zero reinforcement is delivered even if a target behavior occurs. When engaging in a behavior over and over with no reinforcement the behavior extinguishes because it does not produce reinforcement any more. It's like when an asshole beats a dog. The dog may initially attempt to attack or defend itself. But if it suffers a bad enough beating (termed punishment in behaviorism), repetitively regardless of defensive behaviors, it will stop engaging in those behaviors because it never obtains reinforcement (in this case escaping the beating is negative reinforcement). Typically you'll see a lack of bodily control and the animal freezes and defecates or urinates in place. It's taken me a while to de-condition my male pit from urinating (sudden movements and loud voices "NO!) when he gets scared. I really think a lot of the INTJ's ought to check out learning psychology and behaviorism. Behaviorism is literally the empirical science of behavior. There's nothing like being able to read other people like an open book. Any poker fiends can use it to make some money. Trust me To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I help train dogs (agility, well as security and basic rehabilitation).

As with that study, when the first dog was given, say, bacon for responding to the command, and the second dog was given a piece of bread, both continued to respond. The second dog did not care what treat he was given, only that he was given a treat.

That is why the study concluded that they understood and behaved according to rules of equality, if not equity.

I've carried out (roughly) the same experiment with the same result.

[paleoeco]

Oh yes, cats and dogs feel jealousy. I have a cat and a dog, and they do get quite jealous of each other if I don't show equal affection. The dog gets jealous of my giving attention to other people (if I have company, he has to be between us on the sofa) or of other dogs.

Originally Posted by Bluesea To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

There are cases of cats lying on babies and being a potential risk to the baby's ability to breathe. A friend of mine said their cat used to climb up into the crib and sleep on the baby - not on it's face but they caught it a couple of times and had to police the situation. Not sure if it was about jealousy could have been the warm body but is still a risk to be aware of if the cat sleeps on the baby's head.

This is quite common, actually. Most cats like to sleep on the chest of a person; I think it has to do with the heartbeat and the rhythm of the breathing. In babies this is a problem because the weight of the cat can be too much for a newborn to get adequate breaths.