too many unknowns.

**sairf** · 11-10-2009, 09:40 PM

Theres this girl i work with jaime that i noticed ive developed a crush on. i cant tell if i like her or am just infatuated. We both went to a co workers halloween party. although we werent really around each other at the party, the one time we did talk i noticed that she randomly grabbed the adjuster wand on the blinds and started playing with it as we started to talk. idk i remember this detail for some reason maybe i thought it ment something?

I was telling her how I was in the other room and it only had a right light on, and it was very hard to see for beer pong & that when i moved into the room she was in where the fog machine was on it would hurt my eyes. I talked to her at work a few days after the party and she brought up how my eyes hurt cause of the fog machine.

then last tuesday me, her and our friend bg went to eat at a buffet. they mostly talked about bg's ex girlfriend who is the roommate of the girl i like, also her best friend. they were talking about how bg's ex is touchy and feely about her bf and exbfs, and is very flirty at the same time. then they were comparing jaime to his ex gf. saying how jaime is like the perfect girl friend she doesnt get mad or jealous, shes like one of the guys. she doesnt act like a slut or anything shes just an overall nice girl. and then they talked about how jaime was going out with bg's exgirlfriend's exboyfriend a few years ago. jaime was telling me about how bg's ex gf would call her bf saying stuff like i miss you i want to be with you and blahhzeeblahh. i asked jaime why you would let her talk on the phone like that to your bf and she said to me because i knew he wouldnt do anything and that i felt sorry for her. and i dont really get jealous or mad about things like that im whatever. then she said your lucky i normally dont tell anyone about things like this.

then last friday we went out to eat lunch together. we talked about work and such, she was telling me about how one of her exbf's was in culinary arts and all the stuff he used to do for work and for her. because i told her im planning on going to school in jan for culinary. it mad me feel weird cause i didnt really wanna her about her exbf. then we talked about what she wanted to go to school for and what not. then we talked about how our familys we're i was telling her that when i was little me and my cousins would all go to our grandpas house each weekend and hangout together. she was surprised cause thats what she did when she was younger. she did most of the talking i just probed haha. she would tell me random facts about her and such, how she just goes with the flow. likes architecture, and how she had bad eczema.

then this past sunday me and her worked the dinner shift together at the resturant. shes a host im a server. so when we randomly get close to each other i would say random things like stop stalking me. and when we are in eachothers way we would both move to the same direction to get out of each others way. hah so i would say to her nice dance and she smile and walk away. idk i guess i really like her. after our shifts were over. we were going to watch a movie with bg at jaimes house. we were going to watch eternal sunshine of the spotless mind. she invited me to watch it with her and bg and her other friend earlier on in the week. bg didnt show up till late and jaime and i didnt want to start the movie with out him and her other friend was a no show. so while me and jaime waited for bg we watched funny videos on youtube and reminisced about shows we watched as a kid, i would criticize her about how she sits on the couch with the macbook on her stomach lying down and typing, making fun of how she has hand movements when shes describing things and how she always says sweet and the word interesting. there has always been lots of eye contact when we talk, i always tend to look away i get scared. bg ended up coming really late and jaime was to tired to start the movie. she apologized to me and such, it wasnt a thing really i was grateful to spend time with her alone.

hmm i guess what im getting at is, how do i go about finding out she likes me in a stealthy way.

**WoodElf4U** · 11-10-2009, 09:51 PM

Here is my suggestion:

Tell her that you had a good time that night, waiting for bg to show up, and you would like to spend more time alone with her. I have a feeling she will be up for it. Then ask if she wants to go to the movies, or dinner, or bowling, whatever you think you two would have fun doing. Good luck
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**sairf** · 11-11-2009, 05:50 AM

hmm agreed. but im right now im doing my little ignore her for a few days and she if she tries to initiate a hangout with me.. shes one of those girls, who makes you feel like shes one of your guy friends, real easy going. i feel like i can be myself around her. your right i should ask her to the movies or whatever.

**wotsamattaU** · 11-11-2009, 11:49 AM

Ignore her, and she will wonder what the hell is wrong with you.

Hot and cold confuses people...and eventually due to your lack of consistency pushes them away.

Listen to the Elf - good advice there.
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**ranwayslo** · 11-11-2009, 02:33 PM

Why play games? Women and non intjs are far superior to playing games than we are to start with. So why take a course of action that is likely to fail unless that is your hidden intention. If you like her just tell her. As my latina friend the uber matchmaker says: "Seemple is thut" and she is usually right.

**zibber** · 11-11-2009, 02:41 PM

Don't get caught in the delusion that a "date" (eg. bowling, movies) is necessary. If I'm in this situation I just go with the flow and nudge it towards some more 1 on 1 situations. Be natural. If there is chemistry, it should be pretty easy to detect (as you're experiencing it).

Also, if you really, really dig someone and they dig you back, you will have to move out of your comfort zone once or twice to get the ball rolling. Don't do something that feels contrived, but make it very clear that you're into her. If you get kicked to the curb, that sucks, but it wasn't going to happen anyway.

	Originally Posted by ranwayslo To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If you like her just tell her. As my latina friend the uber matchmaker says: "Seemple is thut" and she is usually right.

I don't disagree with that, but the timing of such a big bomb does matter. This hasn't been going on for too long; such a strong come-on could turn the other person off before a bond even exists.

**sairf** · 11-11-2009, 06:51 PM

okay. so i went to work today and shes the first person who i at see at the door and she says hi to me and i couldnt not say hi. then my manager came and stole my attention for some work stuff. then i went back up front and we started talking about the work stuff and i asked he to quiz me on it. she was so proud of her self saying she memorized last week on the day we go it and how im struggle to remember. so im reciting it too her and i cant but laugh smile and jumble my words together.

then i told her what Wood ELf told me, say that you had a good time. this is the part where my mind was firing a million different synapses. I said to her "hey i really enjoyed hanging out with you the other night" then she finished my sentence as i was saying it "even though we didnt get to watch the movie" i told her "no worries and that if you want to chill some time call me up." She said to me "yeahh i had fun too. we should hang out more often like once a week" i looked at her strange and said "really like once a week?" "then she said yeahh at least once a week."

me being intj i was confused? im actually still trying to comprehend what just happened.

So after work i invited her to watch a christmas carol. it starts at 1015, its 950 right now. I gave her a call around 940 to see if she was still down. no call back yet. but its not a thing really she worked all day today so i understand if she feel asleep.. overall i had a good day.

---------- Post added 11-11-2009 at 10:09 PM ----------

she just called ! she just got home from work at her second job at the toyota dealership. its like hurricane weather right now in VB. and she said she was sleepy cause of the weather and what not. and she told me have fun working a double tomorrow. i asked her if shes working, she said no cause someone wanted to pick up a shift. then i said aww sucks i wont have fun tomorrow. then she said she might come in and eat. haha well i just wanted to update the situation.

**sairf** · 11-15-2009, 08:23 PM

So i didnt get to see her anytime this week except for at work today. i didnt really talk to her much but when i was leaving she stopped me and asked what days i have off. so she asked me if i wanted to eat sushi on friday. i suppose she has an interest in me?

**trekie4ever** · 11-17-2009, 08:57 AM

	Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Ignore her, and she will wonder what the hell is wrong with you. Hot and cold confuses people...and eventually due to your lack of consistency pushes them away. Listen to the Elf - good advice there. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Not so much the hot and cold, but DEF IGNORE THE HELL OUT OF HER.... she sounds a little off anyway dude. She's talking about her roommie and best friend to your friend bg who is her ex? That's an EVI (ethics, values, integrity) issue... only way to combat that is to make her so into you she won't want to let you down.

Ignore her and make her feel special.

To define this (cause you crazy INTJ's are just too literal sometimes):
1a (ignore). You see her at work, exchange a few words like Hey; how are yah; etc, but NEVER EVER have a full blown conversation with her. Stop talking to her or you will end watchin your buddy bg grabbin her ass and hearing stories about how he made her <censored>.
1b (special) Go ahead and keep up the jokes. If she does something goofy, go ahead and call her out on it. If she does something noteworthy, like dealing with some fussy customers PRAISE HER! Say "damn nice job with those dicks over there. You handled that really well." Blah blah blah, praise her praise her praise her.
2a (ignore) She calls you, DON'T answer. Always let her go to voicemail but ALWAYS call her back no sooner than 10pm. You are now a busy man in her eyes with things to do.
2b (special) Tell her your tired, but insist you would enjoy talking on the phone for 30 minutes before you head to bed. Tell her that her voice is soothing to you and calms you and other shit like that. blah blah blah etc etc etc
3a (ignore) Never EVER EVER LET HER INVITE YOU OUT TO CHILL/HANG/ETC!
3b (special) You ask HER to hang out. Now if someone else organizes an event like a party, concert, etc, someone ELSE is running the show, go ahead be her wingman. She can count on you and lean on you for comfort and safety. Remember you are there for her not to have fun.

I could go on forever with any situation, but the gist of it is, let there only be one unknown, unpredictable factor. YOU

**WoodElf4U** · 11-17-2009, 09:20 AM

Well, there are those that play games, and those that don't. If I know a girl is playing games, I don't play.

Keep in mind, if you have to ignore someone to get their attention, you will probably be unhappy in the relationship later. You could be stuck with a shallow person. Either she is interested or she is not. Don't call and harass her all day in night. But, don't play the waiting game, its not worth it. Imo.

Sairf, she probably has an interest in you, but you are both young, and young people are all over the place. Just hang out and do things when the schedules work, and have fun. Don't worry about the relationship right now.

**trekie4ever** · 11-17-2009, 09:52 AM

Yes Woodelf4u, you are so correct. Games shouldn't be necessary, but for some they are. A person who is truly focused in life with a clear goal in mind is going to ignore the people that matter most to make their life better. They "ignore but make feel special" all the time. My hope, is that by knowing the rules and pretending, it eventually becomes who they are. All that idle time they could've spent with their crush, infatuation, etc working their way deeper into the friend zone will be spent finding other things to do.

It is not who you are now, but who you strive to be.

Taking it this way slows things down so much (if one holds true), but peaks interest. If one moves too fast the relationship will crumble and become just like everyone else's. Most likely, the fall out will be MUCH worse. If one paces the progression of the relationship, the time will be made to develop from the young, unfocused adolescents into the young adults with a matured view of their world.

**wotsamattaU** · 11-17-2009, 12:30 PM

	Originally Posted by sairf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So i didnt get to see her anytime this week except for at work today. i didnt really talk to her much but when i was leaving she stopped me and asked what days i have off. so she asked me if i wanted to eat sushi on friday. i suppose she has an interest in me?

Sounds like a pretty direct interest in you to me. Whether it is platonic or romantic interest is uncertain, but clearly she enjoys your company.

I think WoodElf4U's advice is right on target here. Have fun and forget about playing games.

Life is too short and there are plenty of people out there who do not require intricate strategies to be with. Sounds like an exhausting way of approaching and keeping a relationship, not to mention so entirely phony and contrived.

	Originally Posted by trekie4ever
	A person who is truly focused in life with a clear goal in mind is going to ignore the people that matter most to make their life better.

Is this your way of stating INTJ keep the relationships in their life as backdrops, or am I misunderstanding you?

**trekie4ever** · 11-17-2009, 01:57 PM


	A person who is truly focused in life with a clear goal in mind is going to ignore the people that matter most to make their life better.

	Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Is this your way of stating INTJ keep the relationships in their life as backdrops, or am I misunderstanding you?

Definitely no to keeping relationships as a backdrop. I've done that a lot, and it's held me back in so many ways. Hmmm... Let me try and be a little clearer. I'm going to make another thread cause I'm going off on super tangents right now.

When I say ignore, I don't mean it in the sense of cutting a person off. If you are working an 8am-6pm job every week, once you come home you only have a short 4 hours compared to the 10 hours you invested in work to eat dinner, chill with the fam, etc. Meanwhile the others will be doing their other things. An efficient family is going to ignore each other a LOT and on accident just because of how things are. The key to combating that is taking an extra step to make the short time as a family exciting and enjoyable. It works, everyone is happy and loving, and it doesn't take nearly as much other activities.

I am simply saying that this is possible to emulate in an environment such as college and the "post-college limbo." Master it now and later it'll be eaaasy.

**sairf** · 11-17-2009, 10:35 PM

thanks for the advice. i went to watch 2012 with some coworkers tonight afterwards me and bg ate at Bdubbz. and jaime was there with some people. she told me and blane to pull up a table to her and her friends but me and blane ate at the bar. jaime came over to talk and such she was surprised when to see me drinking. she was like wow your drinking? i never see you drink before.. we really didnt talk much at all. but she said she was excited to work with me on thursday and excited for sushi.

**sairf** · 11-20-2009, 08:01 AM

So yesterday morning i burned her a cd and brought it to work for her. she was like i wish i had a radio to listen to it right now i wanna jam and such. then i got off of work. and came back for my second shift and i noticed she left the cd there. i was disappointed.. to be honest i didnt really understand what i was feeling. kind off at the fact she left it there then i got over it in 5 mins. she called work later that night to tell me to bring it to her tomorrow at sushi. so were going to sushi at 12pm its 11am right now. she called and told me that bg is coming and that she is also babysitting so her niece is coming. ehhhh i d k what happend here haha i was hoping for some one on one time conversations but its okay i dont mind more people tagging along. maybe shes bringing bg cause shes nervous? idk i need advice

---------- Post added 11-20-2009 at 11:52 PM ----------

ok so sushi was great. it just ended up being me and her. she wore this really nice dress. we talked about alot of things. she likes to jump subjects alot. i dont know if its because shes nervous or thats how she really is. in the span of an hour we talked about sushi, people that she didnt think i knew that she knows, talked about her ex boyfriend/why they broke up she said its because he didnt trust her cause she has lots of friends that are guys. he would go hot and cold with her and that led her to break things off. she was telling me that the 2 bfs shes had, have had jealousy/trust issues with her but, shes not that type of girl to flirt with guys. she just knows lots of people ha. we also talked about work, what makes us angry, how we are in relationships. idk "small talk" basically in my mind. she wants to go out next week for lunch again. i dont know what we are doing, is this dating even though we havent declared it a date.

11-10-2009, 09:40 PM	#1
sairf New Member [01%] MBTI: iNTJ Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 22	Theres this girl i work with jaime that i noticed ive developed a crush on. i cant tell if i like her or am just infatuated. We both went to a co workers halloween party. although we werent really around each other at the party, the one time we did talk i noticed that she randomly grabbed the adjuster wand on the blinds and started playing with it as we started to talk. idk i remember this detail for some reason maybe i thought it ment something? I was telling her how I was in the other room and it only had a right light on, and it was very hard to see for beer pong & that when i moved into the room she was in where the fog machine was on it would hurt my eyes. I talked to her at work a few days after the party and she brought up how my eyes hurt cause of the fog machine. then last tuesday me, her and our friend bg went to eat at a buffet. they mostly talked about bg's ex girlfriend who is the roommate of the girl i like, also her best friend. they were talking about how bg's ex is touchy and feely about her bf and exbfs, and is very flirty at the same time. then they were comparing jaime to his ex gf. saying how jaime is like the perfect girl friend she doesnt get mad or jealous, shes like one of the guys. she doesnt act like a slut or anything shes just an overall nice girl. and then they talked about how jaime was going out with bg's exgirlfriend's exboyfriend a few years ago. jaime was telling me about how bg's ex gf would call her bf saying stuff like i miss you i want to be with you and blahhzeeblahh. i asked jaime why you would let her talk on the phone like that to your bf and she said to me because i knew he wouldnt do anything and that i felt sorry for her. and i dont really get jealous or mad about things like that im whatever. then she said your lucky i normally dont tell anyone about things like this. then last friday we went out to eat lunch together. we talked about work and such, she was telling me about how one of her exbf's was in culinary arts and all the stuff he used to do for work and for her. because i told her im planning on going to school in jan for culinary. it mad me feel weird cause i didnt really wanna her about her exbf. then we talked about what she wanted to go to school for and what not. then we talked about how our familys we're i was telling her that when i was little me and my cousins would all go to our grandpas house each weekend and hangout together. she was surprised cause thats what she did when she was younger. she did most of the talking i just probed haha. she would tell me random facts about her and such, how she just goes with the flow. likes architecture, and how she had bad eczema. then this past sunday me and her worked the dinner shift together at the resturant. shes a host im a server. so when we randomly get close to each other i would say random things like stop stalking me. and when we are in eachothers way we would both move to the same direction to get out of each others way. hah so i would say to her nice dance and she smile and walk away. idk i guess i really like her. after our shifts were over. we were going to watch a movie with bg at jaimes house. we were going to watch eternal sunshine of the spotless mind. she invited me to watch it with her and bg and her other friend earlier on in the week. bg didnt show up till late and jaime and i didnt want to start the movie with out him and her other friend was a no show. so while me and jaime waited for bg we watched funny videos on youtube and reminisced about shows we watched as a kid, i would criticize her about how she sits on the couch with the macbook on her stomach lying down and typing, making fun of how she has hand movements when shes describing things and how she always says sweet and the word interesting. there has always been lots of eye contact when we talk, i always tend to look away i get scared. bg ended up coming really late and jaime was to tired to start the movie. she apologized to me and such, it wasnt a thing really i was grateful to spend time with her alone. hmm i guess what im getting at is, how do i go about finding out she likes me in a stealthy way.
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11-10-2009, 09:51 PM	#2
WoodElf4U Member [07%] MBTI: INxP Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 280	Here is my suggestion: Tell her that you had a good time that night, waiting for bg to show up, and you would like to spend more time alone with her. I have a feeling she will be up for it. Then ask if she wants to go to the movies, or dinner, or bowling, whatever you think you two would have fun doing. Good luck To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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11-11-2009, 05:50 AM	#3
sairf New Member [01%] MBTI: iNTJ Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 22	hmm agreed. but im right now im doing my little ignore her for a few days and she if she tries to initiate a hangout with me.. shes one of those girls, who makes you feel like shes one of your guy friends, real easy going. i feel like i can be myself around her. your right i should ask her to the movies or whatever.
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11-11-2009, 11:49 AM	#4
wotsamattaU Member [18%] MBTI: INFP Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 759	Ignore her, and she will wonder what the hell is wrong with you. Hot and cold confuses people...and eventually due to your lack of consistency pushes them away. Listen to the Elf - good advice there. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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11-11-2009, 02:33 PM	#5
ranwayslo Member [19%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 798	Why play games? Women and non intjs are far superior to playing games than we are to start with. So why take a course of action that is likely to fail unless that is your hidden intention. If you like her just tell her. As my latina friend the uber matchmaker says: "Seemple is thut" and she is usually right.
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11-11-2009, 06:51 PM	#7
sairf New Member [01%] MBTI: iNTJ Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 22	okay. so i went to work today and shes the first person who i at see at the door and she says hi to me and i couldnt not say hi. then my manager came and stole my attention for some work stuff. then i went back up front and we started talking about the work stuff and i asked he to quiz me on it. she was so proud of her self saying she memorized last week on the day we go it and how im struggle to remember. so im reciting it too her and i cant but laugh smile and jumble my words together. then i told her what Wood ELf told me, say that you had a good time. this is the part where my mind was firing a million different synapses. I said to her "hey i really enjoyed hanging out with you the other night" then she finished my sentence as i was saying it "even though we didnt get to watch the movie" i told her "no worries and that if you want to chill some time call me up." She said to me "yeahh i had fun too. we should hang out more often like once a week" i looked at her strange and said "really like once a week?" "then she said yeahh at least once a week." me being intj i was confused? im actually still trying to comprehend what just happened. So after work i invited her to watch a christmas carol. it starts at 1015, its 950 right now. I gave her a call around 940 to see if she was still down. no call back yet. but its not a thing really she worked all day today so i understand if she feel asleep.. overall i had a good day. ---------- Post added 11-11-2009 at 10:09 PM ---------- she just called ! she just got home from work at her second job at the toyota dealership. its like hurricane weather right now in VB. and she said she was sleepy cause of the weather and what not. and she told me have fun working a double tomorrow. i asked her if shes working, she said no cause someone wanted to pick up a shift. then i said aww sucks i wont have fun tomorrow. then she said she might come in and eat. haha well i just wanted to update the situation.
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11-15-2009, 08:23 PM	#8
sairf New Member [01%] MBTI: iNTJ Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 22	So i didnt get to see her anytime this week except for at work today. i didnt really talk to her much but when i was leaving she stopped me and asked what days i have off. so she asked me if i wanted to eat sushi on friday. i suppose she has an interest in me?
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11-17-2009, 09:20 AM	#10
WoodElf4U Member [07%] MBTI: INxP Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 280	Well, there are those that play games, and those that don't. If I know a girl is playing games, I don't play. Keep in mind, if you have to ignore someone to get their attention, you will probably be unhappy in the relationship later. You could be stuck with a shallow person. Either she is interested or she is not. Don't call and harass her all day in night. But, don't play the waiting game, its not worth it. Imo. Sairf, she probably has an interest in you, but you are both young, and young people are all over the place. Just hang out and do things when the schedules work, and have fun. Don't worry about the relationship right now.
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11-17-2009, 09:52 AM	#11
trekie4ever New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 59	Yes Woodelf4u, you are so correct. Games shouldn't be necessary, but for some they are. A person who is truly focused in life with a clear goal in mind is going to ignore the people that matter most to make their life better. They "ignore but make feel special" all the time. My hope, is that by knowing the rules and pretending, it eventually becomes who they are. All that idle time they could've spent with their crush, infatuation, etc working their way deeper into the friend zone will be spent finding other things to do. It is not who you are now, but who you strive to be. Taking it this way slows things down so much (if one holds true), but peaks interest. If one moves too fast the relationship will crumble and become just like everyone else's. Most likely, the fall out will be MUCH worse. If one paces the progression of the relationship, the time will be made to develop from the young, unfocused adolescents into the young adults with a matured view of their world.
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11-17-2009, 10:35 PM	#14
sairf New Member [01%] MBTI: iNTJ Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 22	thanks for the advice. i went to watch 2012 with some coworkers tonight afterwards me and bg ate at Bdubbz. and jaime was there with some people. she told me and blane to pull up a table to her and her friends but me and blane ate at the bar. jaime came over to talk and such she was surprised when to see me drinking. she was like wow your drinking? i never see you drink before.. we really didnt talk much at all. but she said she was excited to work with me on thursday and excited for sushi.
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11-20-2009, 08:01 AM	#15
sairf New Member [01%] MBTI: iNTJ Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 22	So yesterday morning i burned her a cd and brought it to work for her. she was like i wish i had a radio to listen to it right now i wanna jam and such. then i got off of work. and came back for my second shift and i noticed she left the cd there. i was disappointed.. to be honest i didnt really understand what i was feeling. kind off at the fact she left it there then i got over it in 5 mins. she called work later that night to tell me to bring it to her tomorrow at sushi. so were going to sushi at 12pm its 11am right now. she called and told me that bg is coming and that she is also babysitting so her niece is coming. ehhhh i d k what happend here haha i was hoping for some one on one time conversations but its okay i dont mind more people tagging along. maybe shes bringing bg cause shes nervous? idk i need advice ---------- Post added 11-20-2009 at 11:52 PM ---------- ok so sushi was great. it just ended up being me and her. she wore this really nice dress. we talked about alot of things. she likes to jump subjects alot. i dont know if its because shes nervous or thats how she really is. in the span of an hour we talked about sushi, people that she didnt think i knew that she knows, talked about her ex boyfriend/why they broke up she said its because he didnt trust her cause she has lots of friends that are guys. he would go hot and cold with her and that led her to break things off. she was telling me that the 2 bfs shes had, have had jealousy/trust issues with her but, shes not that type of girl to flirt with guys. she just knows lots of people ha. we also talked about work, what makes us angry, how we are in relationships. idk "small talk" basically in my mind. she wants to go out next week for lunch again. i dont know what we are doing, is this dating even though we havent declared it a date.
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