INTJ's and Sexual Mores

**iamnotspock** · 02-22-2008, 12:14 AM

I'm curious what INTJ's feel about current sexual mores. Do you think it's good that sex is less of a big deal than before? That it's often separated from commitment in a "friends with benefits", "one night stand", or "hookup" scenario? And that women are encouraged to have their conquests, too, as in the "Sex In the City" scenario?

**Staralfur** · 02-22-2008, 12:24 AM

I think sex should be whatever an individual wants it to be, as long as they respect their partner's wishes. That being said, I see it as a very romantic experience and would most likely want to keep it between myself and my boyfriend (basically fiance) though we have had talk of threesomes and such and I would probably be open to the experience sometime in the future. I do understand how some people can separate love from sex. I also see that a lot of sexual roles given to women vs. men is a result of society's pre-conceived gender roles rather than the innate sexuality that all human beings possess, which I believe is more equal between the sexes than it is made out to be.

**ginandsour** · 02-22-2008, 12:35 AM

I dunno how I feel about women doing the "conquest" thing. Not to overgeneralize men, but it's like that joke about how there are no female dirty-phone-callers: it would be too easy.

Woman: "Hey baby, I'm gonna come over there and [you know what I mean]."
Man, after recovering from shock: "...Awesome! Can you call back this time tomorrow??"

I am fairly sexually open, although I can't randomly sleep with people I don't know. No connection = no fun in bed, at least for me.

**Vortex** · 02-22-2008, 12:45 AM

Given the highly individualistic nature often common to INTJs, I'd suspect that your answer will be along the lines of "the mores are whatever I decide them to be" :P

As a rule though, they'll probably be more open that most of society, given that we aren't really given to accepting others belief systems for our own.

**vaguely dissatisfied** · 02-22-2008, 06:02 AM

I have two daughters and I have tried to raise them with certain general ways of thinking about and dealing with the question of sex. I wanted them to be able to see that sex is not the thing they see on t.v., that is to say, it is not this glamorous and romantic thing that hollywood makes it out to be. I also wanted them to view sex with the same sort of respect and dignity as they would.....say......food. In other words sex, like food, can be functional, or heavenly, or exciting, or boring etc. It is a bodily function, but just like food it must be thought about and treated with regard in order to avoid abuse and, therefore, bodily harm.

I taught my daughters that sex is also a psychological thing. We know this because poeple who are abused sexually feel the ramifications for a lifetime. So I believe that sex must be understood as much as possible just like understanding nutritional requirements, or socially acceptable behavior etc. I also believe that sex within a relationship has alot to do with trust within that relationship and this is where questions of manogomy and cheating come in.

Another point I thought was extremely relevant for my daughters was that I taught them to never have sex with someone unless they wanted to. In other words, they should not have sex because they feel pressured by the other person or only to please the other person, but only if they felt they they would enjoy having sex. I realize that this does not neccessarily apply to a more established long-term relationship, but I guess I'll talk to them about that when they cross that bridge.

**PortInStorm** · 02-22-2008, 06:36 AM

I feel that there is so much that's not discussed, that's pretty big in my mind when it comes to sex. One is the whole post-coital release of oxytocin that really clouds your genuine feelings about a relationship (I'm not sure how this would play out in a one-night-stand), another are STDs that are not taken care of by condoms (I knew about HPV way before this new vaccine), and lastly the manipulation that surrounds sex, like Vaguely said. It's all fine and dandy to say that you really wanted to have sex with someone, but were they faking affection/care so that you'd want to have sex with them, then follow their lust to the next person because you've been 'had'? I don't at all think this is limited to a particular sex, nor that this happens all the time, but I was really scared of being manipulated and 'used up' as a young adult, not to mention the double standard.

Plus, I worked at a young mothers' home, and saw so much hardship and cruelty towards these girls (plus some kindness, of course). Boys taunting the girls that they'd never make good mothers, that they should've had an abortion etc etc.

A couple of females we know also used pregnancy and children to manipulate the men in their lives, making them miserable for years. I know this is different from sex, but sometimes they would tell the guys they couldn't have kids, or they were taking pills etc.

**Jgib5328** · 02-22-2008, 07:01 AM

I honestly think my generation is way too oversexed. All college students do is get drunk and then have sex with each other (generalization, but it happens quite often). It is vile and crude behavior. I look down upon it as being overly animalistic in intent, which repulses me. There is nothing wrong with sex, but doing it all of the time is just hedonism to me. I honestly hate where this society is going. I remember talking to an 8 year old once, when I was about 13 and this was his exact words, "I don't think I'm ready for sex yet, I'll wait until I'm 10"!! This is the future of our society, I know this is just one case, but I've spoken with other kids like this too. I honestly think kids should be more focused on deeper things and develop less egregious hobbies. Whatever, morals don't really exist on a college campus.

**vaguely dissatisfied** · 02-22-2008, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by Jgib5328
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I honestly think my generation is way too oversexed. All college students do is get drunk and then have sex with each other (generalization, but it happens quite often). It is vile and crude behavior. I look down upon it as being overly animalistic in intent, which repulses me. There is nothing wrong with sex, but doing it all of the time is just hedonism to me. I honestly hate where this society is going. I remember talking to an 8 year old once, when I was about 13 and this was his exact words, "I don't think I'm ready for sex yet, I'll wait until I'm 10"!! This is the future of our society, I know this is just one case, but I've spoken with other kids like this too. I honestly think kids should be more focused on deeper things and develop less egregious hobbies. Whatever, morals don't really exist on a college campus.

I think it has alot to do with the value society places on sex and the images that the media portrays. This has changed from ultra-conservative, which has it's bad points, to ultra-liberal, which also has a down side. Perhaps the pendulum will stop swinging at some point and society will reflect the same sort of understanding and restraint as it has done with things like healthy eating or exercise.

Until then it appears that it is really up to the parents to teach their children how to fight off things like media influence and peer pressure. In other words, how to stand up for their principles even if they have to go it alone. Like you appear to be doing jgib.

**Jgib5328** · 02-22-2008, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by vaguely dissatisfied
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I think it has alot to do with the value society places on sex and the images that the media portrays. This has changed from ultra-conservative, which has it's bad points, to ultra-liberal, which also has a down side. Perhaps the pendulum will stop swinging at some point and society will reflect the same sort of understanding and restraint as it has done with things like healthy eating or exercise.

Until then it appears that it is really up to the parents to teach their children how to fight off things like media influence and peer pressure. In other words, how to stand up for their principles even if they have to go it alone. Like you appear to be doing jgib.

Most people are too weak to be moral and stand up against peer pressure. I'm rare, out of the other people in my age group that I know (I know a lot of people) , I know only 3 other people who have never drank alcohol and a strong majority of the people in my generation have done drugs (mostly marijuana). Nothing really will change because people aren't strong enough to fight against it. I'm probably one of the only people I know that can live by his own individual morals. I really don't see society changing that much, it's going to become increasingly more corrupted by immorality.

**Colette** · 02-22-2008, 10:24 AM

My mores on this topic is that I regard sex as a very pleasurable activity, and as a natural and normal part of life - not something to be revered, feared, placed on a pedestal, or reserved for the 'right one'.

Neither however is it something to be thrown around willy-nilly, and with whomever happens to cross my path.

There is a middle ground in there for women (and indeed men, for I make no distinctions in terms of virtue between men and women, depending on what sexual attitudes they adopt), and I believe I'm pretty close to having found this 'middle ground'. I'm happy with it!

**ElstonGunn** · 02-22-2008, 11:13 AM

I'm a friggin' Puritan about sex. (Although, I read somewhere that historically speaking, the Puritans could be just as bawdy as the rest of 'em, but the point is that I'm a bit of a prude.) While talking to a female friend of mine awhile ago, I came to the conclusion that I'd be the reverse of the standard stereotype-- a woman would end up pressuring me to have sex, rather than the other way around.

My basic reasoning, aside from the practical considerations (diseases, unwanted pregnancy, etc), is that sex tends to gum up the mental processes that I would rely on in making a decision about whether or not to be with someone in the long term. It's also possible for a lack of sex to have the same effect (i.e., 'horny teenager syndrome'), but personally, I don't run into that problem very often. I have virtually no libido unless I'm already in a solid relationship.

I have no problem with how other people want to view sex, as long as they're not forceful about it. Like this:

	Originally Posted by Staralfur To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think sex should be whatever an individual wants it to be, as long as they respect their partner's wishes.

**vaguely dissatisfied** · 02-22-2008, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Jgib5328
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Most people are too weak to be moral and stand up against peer pressure. I'm rare, out of the other people in my age group that I know (I know a lot of people) , I know only 3 other people who have never drank alcohol and a strong majority of the people in my generation have done drugs (mostly marijuana). Nothing really will change because people aren't strong enough to fight against it. I'm probably one of the only people I know that can live by his own individual morals. I really don't see society changing that much, it's going to become increasingly more corrupted by immorality.

Perhaps as you look at society through a longer period of time (like when your old) you may decide that things are slowly and inexorably getting better.

**Jgib5328** · 02-22-2008, 11:54 AM

	Originally Posted by vaguely dissatisfied To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Perhaps as you look at society through a longer period of time (like when your old) you may decide that things are slowly and inexorably getting better.

Maybe a bit, but if you look at the patterns throughout history, society has gotten progressively more liberal. There may be small bounce backs to more conservatism, but that never offsets the jump in liberalism. So society continually becomes more liberal. I'm sure something in the future will happen to lead the world back to more conservatism, but it won't last too long because there will be a strong wave of liberalism again.

**Zilal** · 02-22-2008, 11:59 AM

I don't think much about sex itself, but I do think people these days are more and more into chasing fleeting sources of pleasure like material goods, sex, etc., rather than investing that energy into relationships. Sex itself doesn't have a special category to me... I consider it just another activity it's best to be thoughtful about, not abuse, etc.

**vaguely dissatisfied** · 02-22-2008, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Jgib5328
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Maybe a bit, but if you look at the patterns throughout history, society has gotten progressively more liberal. There may be small bounce backs to more conservatism, but that never offsets the jump in liberalism. So society continually becomes more liberal. I'm sure something in the future will happen to lead the world back to more conservatism, but it won't last too long because there will be a strong wave of liberalism again.

I think your right. But, I think you and I have different views about what is beneficial to society. I think that a trend toward liberalism is the best thing. However, I also see how going to extremes is harmful. The reason I like the trend toward liberalism is because it jump starts us out of a complacent acceptance of the status quo and makes us use reason and logic rather than tradition to support our opinions and choices.

**Jgib5328** · 02-22-2008, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by vaguely dissatisfied
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I think your right. But, I think you and I have different views about what is beneficial to society. I think that a trend toward liberalism is the best thing. However, I also see how going to extremes is harmful. The reason I like the trend toward liberalism is because it jump starts us out of a complacent acceptance of the status quo and makes us use reason and logic rather than tradition to support our opinions and choices.

Oh yeah I mean liberalism definitely is good. If things never changed or became more liberal, we'd all be hunting for our food and using stones as tools. I just strongly dislike forms of extreme liberalism, but I suppose most things that are extreme are bad.

**thod** · 02-22-2008, 03:11 PM

Its just a throwback to pre contraception. You granddaughters will be screwing every boy they meet we just need the old generations and their pregnancy thoughts to die off.

Then its going to be lots stroking, licking and the exchange of bodily fluids. I always felt I was born ahead of my time.

**vaguely dissatisfied** · 02-22-2008, 03:33 PM

	Originally Posted by thod To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Its just a throwback to pre contraception. You granddaughters will be screwing every boy they meet we just need the old generations and their pregnancy thoughts to die off. Then its going to be lots stroking, licking and the exchange of bodily fluids. I always felt I was born ahead of my time.

You sound like you're very frustrated..............it's good that you at least have this forum as some sort of outlet for your tension. There are alot of good sources for people who cannot connect with the opposite sex. I can let you know how to get some help, if you like.

**thod** · 02-22-2008, 03:56 PM


	There are alot of good sources for people who cannot connect with the opposite sex. I can let you know how to get some help, if you like.

Ooh please do. But not the over 40s please. I want sex with people half my age not intellectual conversations and saggy bodies. A series of pretty but dumb bimbos suits me fine if you can arrange it.

**vaguely dissatisfied** · 02-22-2008, 04:09 PM

	Originally Posted by thod To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Ooh please do. But not the over 40s please. I want sex with people half my age not intellectual conversations and saggy bodies. A series of pretty but dumb bimbos suits me fine if you can arrange it.

I can definately arrange some help for you, but I don't know anybody with any sort of body or intellect that you would be able to satisfy (in either regard). I am so sorry for you...........I will keep looking as I'm sure that you continue to desperately do, but when soemone with as little to offer as .........well anyway...........you stay on here and keep venting. I can't imagine how difficult it must be for you.

**Colette** · 02-22-2008, 04:18 PM

	Originally Posted by thod To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Ooh please do. But not the over 40s please. I want sex with people half my age not intellectual conversations and saggy bodies. A series of pretty but dumb bimbos suits me fine if you can arrange it.

I hear the technology has reached a new level of sophistication in the manufacture of inflatable dummies, these days...
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**vaguely dissatisfied** · 02-22-2008, 04:23 PM

	Originally Posted by Colette To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I hear the technology has reached a new level of sophistication in the manufacture of inflatable dummies, these days... To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I imagine the poor little guy is already knee deep ................well sounds like much less than knee deep actually.

**thod** · 02-22-2008, 04:30 PM

Ha you love me really, I can always tell. Its simply a defensive reaction the counter stress of the internal attraction and the external rejection to hold yourself in place. Show a bit of muscle and spend a little cash and its knickers off. I cant help being so irresistible to women, I have seen this reaction before.

**vaguely dissatisfied** · 02-22-2008, 04:36 PM

Ah yes..........I have heard of this famous psychologoical phenomenon the "internal attraction and the external rejection to hold yourself in place" theory........this certainly does show the amount of intellectual muscle you have. I fear the knickers remain secure. Keep trying though.

**PRBori** · 02-23-2008, 12:05 PM

Hmm..

Sex to me is something you can have with anyone, so alone it has absolutly no meaning to me. Making love however to someone you feel comfortable with is more like it.

What I'm trying to say is that to have SEX you don't need to know the person or have deep feelings since it doesn't involved anything romantic and is based on taking care of business rather than being romantic.

Making LOVE is more about feeling something for that person and being one soul.

In my case I cannot be with whoever for sex. It needs to be someone special whom I can feel secure that nothing bad will happen and that I can trust. Security to me is more important than sex.

Is not that I don't like sex, for I do, but with the right person who sees it the same way, who shows his feelings for me and loves me for who I am, not just to relax himself.

I can go for years without sex, although this days all you have to do is make a phone call and do it. There is a lot more into a relationship than just sex, and to me other things are much more important at this time than sex itself. If everything else doesn't fit into place, then sex is just sex, and it has no meaning.

Bottom line, I cannot sleep with whoever. I must feel secured, respected, and loved. I must have communication, trust and more important respect not only for ourselves but for our bodies.

Is not time to play around and have sex... to many diceases out there, and the most scary thing is that the ones that can kill you do not show signs right away, it can take years for them to activate...

So HELL NO... sex is not for fun, and hence nobody can influence my views, for I'm have very strong views and a show or someone else is not responsible for my body, I am... so the choices are mine to make...

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02-22-2008, 12:14 AM	#1
iamnotspock Member [07%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 284	I'm curious what INTJ's feel about current sexual mores. Do you think it's good that sex is less of a big deal than before? That it's often separated from commitment in a "friends with benefits", "one night stand", or "hookup" scenario? And that women are encouraged to have their conquests, too, as in the "Sex In the City" scenario?
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02-22-2008, 12:24 AM	#2
Staralfur New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 15	I think sex should be whatever an individual wants it to be, as long as they respect their partner's wishes. That being said, I see it as a very romantic experience and would most likely want to keep it between myself and my boyfriend (basically fiance) though we have had talk of threesomes and such and I would probably be open to the experience sometime in the future. I do understand how some people can separate love from sex. I also see that a lot of sexual roles given to women vs. men is a result of society's pre-conceived gender roles rather than the innate sexuality that all human beings possess, which I believe is more equal between the sexes than it is made out to be.
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02-22-2008, 12:35 AM	#3
ginandsour Member [02%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 107	I dunno how I feel about women doing the "conquest" thing. Not to overgeneralize men, but it's like that joke about how there are no female dirty-phone-callers: it would be too easy. Woman: "Hey baby, I'm gonna come over there and [you know what I mean]." Man, after recovering from shock: "...Awesome! Can you call back this time tomorrow??" I am fairly sexually open, although I can't randomly sleep with people I don't know. No connection = no fun in bed, at least for me.
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02-22-2008, 12:45 AM	#4
Vortex Member [04%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 163	Given the highly individualistic nature often common to INTJs, I'd suspect that your answer will be along the lines of "the mores are whatever I decide them to be" :P As a rule though, they'll probably be more open that most of society, given that we aren't really given to accepting others belief systems for our own.
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02-22-2008, 06:02 AM	#5
vaguely dissatisfied Member [38%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,540	I have two daughters and I have tried to raise them with certain general ways of thinking about and dealing with the question of sex. I wanted them to be able to see that sex is not the thing they see on t.v., that is to say, it is not this glamorous and romantic thing that hollywood makes it out to be. I also wanted them to view sex with the same sort of respect and dignity as they would.....say......food. In other words sex, like food, can be functional, or heavenly, or exciting, or boring etc. It is a bodily function, but just like food it must be thought about and treated with regard in order to avoid abuse and, therefore, bodily harm. I taught my daughters that sex is also a psychological thing. We know this because poeple who are abused sexually feel the ramifications for a lifetime. So I believe that sex must be understood as much as possible just like understanding nutritional requirements, or socially acceptable behavior etc. I also believe that sex within a relationship has alot to do with trust within that relationship and this is where questions of manogomy and cheating come in. Another point I thought was extremely relevant for my daughters was that I taught them to never have sex with someone unless they wanted to. In other words, they should not have sex because they feel pressured by the other person or only to please the other person, but only if they felt they they would enjoy having sex. I realize that this does not neccessarily apply to a more established long-term relationship, but I guess I'll talk to them about that when they cross that bridge.
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02-22-2008, 06:36 AM	#6
PortInStorm Veteran Member [74%] MBTI: INfJ Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,963	I feel that there is so much that's not discussed, that's pretty big in my mind when it comes to sex. One is the whole post-coital release of oxytocin that really clouds your genuine feelings about a relationship (I'm not sure how this would play out in a one-night-stand), another are STDs that are not taken care of by condoms (I knew about HPV way before this new vaccine), and lastly the manipulation that surrounds sex, like Vaguely said. It's all fine and dandy to say that you really wanted to have sex with someone, but were they faking affection/care so that you'd want to have sex with them, then follow their lust to the next person because you've been 'had'? I don't at all think this is limited to a particular sex, nor that this happens all the time, but I was really scared of being manipulated and 'used up' as a young adult, not to mention the double standard. Plus, I worked at a young mothers' home, and saw so much hardship and cruelty towards these girls (plus some kindness, of course). Boys taunting the girls that they'd never make good mothers, that they should've had an abortion etc etc. A couple of females we know also used pregnancy and children to manipulate the men in their lives, making them miserable for years. I know this is different from sex, but sometimes they would tell the guys they couldn't have kids, or they were taking pills etc.
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02-22-2008, 07:01 AM	#7
Jgib5328 Member [47%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,896	I honestly think my generation is way too oversexed. All college students do is get drunk and then have sex with each other (generalization, but it happens quite often). It is vile and crude behavior. I look down upon it as being overly animalistic in intent, which repulses me. There is nothing wrong with sex, but doing it all of the time is just hedonism to me. I honestly hate where this society is going. I remember talking to an 8 year old once, when I was about 13 and this was his exact words, "I don't think I'm ready for sex yet, I'll wait until I'm 10"!! This is the future of our society, I know this is just one case, but I've spoken with other kids like this too. I honestly think kids should be more focused on deeper things and develop less egregious hobbies. Whatever, morals don't really exist on a college campus.
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02-22-2008, 10:24 AM	#10
Colette Member [27%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,088	My mores on this topic is that I regard sex as a very pleasurable activity, and as a natural and normal part of life - not something to be revered, feared, placed on a pedestal, or reserved for the 'right one'. Neither however is it something to be thrown around willy-nilly, and with whomever happens to cross my path. There is a middle ground in there for women (and indeed men, for I make no distinctions in terms of virtue between men and women, depending on what sexual attitudes they adopt), and I believe I'm pretty close to having found this 'middle ground'. I'm happy with it!
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02-22-2008, 11:59 AM	#14
Zilal Member [23%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 949	I don't think much about sex itself, but I do think people these days are more and more into chasing fleeting sources of pleasure like material goods, sex, etc., rather than investing that energy into relationships. Sex itself doesn't have a special category to me... I consider it just another activity it's best to be thoughtful about, not abuse, etc.
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02-22-2008, 03:11 PM	#17
thod Core Member [165%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 6,630	Its just a throwback to pre contraception. You granddaughters will be screwing every boy they meet we just need the old generations and their pregnancy thoughts to die off. Then its going to be lots stroking, licking and the exchange of bodily fluids. I always felt I was born ahead of my time.
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02-22-2008, 04:30 PM	#23
thod Core Member [165%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 6,630	Ha you love me really, I can always tell. Its simply a defensive reaction the counter stress of the internal attraction and the external rejection to hold yourself in place. Show a bit of muscle and spend a little cash and its knickers off. I cant help being so irresistible to women, I have seen this reaction before.
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02-22-2008, 04:36 PM	#24
vaguely dissatisfied Member [38%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,540	Ah yes..........I have heard of this famous psychologoical phenomenon the "internal attraction and the external rejection to hold yourself in place" theory........this certainly does show the amount of intellectual muscle you have. I fear the knickers remain secure. Keep trying though.
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02-23-2008, 12:05 PM	#25
PRBori Core Member [111%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4,457	Hmm.. Sex to me is something you can have with anyone, so alone it has absolutly no meaning to me. Making love however to someone you feel comfortable with is more like it. What I'm trying to say is that to have SEX you don't need to know the person or have deep feelings since it doesn't involved anything romantic and is based on taking care of business rather than being romantic. Making LOVE is more about feeling something for that person and being one soul. In my case I cannot be with whoever for sex. It needs to be someone special whom I can feel secure that nothing bad will happen and that I can trust. Security to me is more important than sex. Is not that I don't like sex, for I do, but with the right person who sees it the same way, who shows his feelings for me and loves me for who I am, not just to relax himself. I can go for years without sex, although this days all you have to do is make a phone call and do it. There is a lot more into a relationship than just sex, and to me other things are much more important at this time than sex itself. If everything else doesn't fit into place, then sex is just sex, and it has no meaning. Bottom line, I cannot sleep with whoever. I must feel secured, respected, and loved. I must have communication, trust and more important respect not only for ourselves but for our bodies. Is not time to play around and have sex... to many diceases out there, and the most scary thing is that the ones that can kill you do not show signs right away, it can take years for them to activate... So HELL NO... sex is not for fun, and hence nobody can influence my views, for I'm have very strong views and a show or someone else is not responsible for my body, I am... so the choices are mine to make... To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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