[pavman]

That's what I don't get about women these days...very few seem to *show* interest, unless you show interest first. It boggles my mind as to why... and in show interest, I mean try to initiate conversation or maintain a conversation I've initiated. Maybe its just the women I've met in the last few years... or maybe its me. But its frustrating as all hell, because it makes it a lot harder

[Colette]

	Originally Posted by pavman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That's what I don't get about women these days...very few seem to *show* interest, unless you show interest first. It boggles my mind as to why... and in show interest, I mean try to initiate conversation or maintain a conversation I've initiated. Maybe its just the women I've met in the last few years... or maybe its me. But its frustrating as all hell, because it makes it a lot harder

Do you think it's possible that you could consider, at some point in future, choosing just one thread to post on, where you manage to avoid making sweeping and unfounded generalizations about 'how women are' or 'what they always do'? Your attitudes (as evidenced in recent posts) are at best irritating to me and others, and at worst, downright ignorant..

[AgentofGaming]

Originally Posted by pavman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

That's what I don't get about women these days...very few seem to *show* interest, unless you show interest first. It boggles my mind as to why... and in show interest, I mean try to initiate conversation or maintain a conversation I've initiated. Maybe its just the women I've met in the last few years... or maybe its me. But its frustrating as all hell, because it makes it a lot harder. E.g. There's this one woman who IS crazy (on meds and stuff), who's always giving me that come hither look, but I know she's crazy so I won't. What I don't get is why she doesn't try to initiate a dialogue to explore possibilities and show *interest* in who I am as a person, rather than just give me these stupid looks. I wouldn't bite, because I know she's crazy, but still.... doesn't make any sense to me.

For being frustrated (probably comes from unmet goals), don't try too hard. Some things can't forced, let them come to you, but don't expect. Well then again I'm a go with the flow and don't fight the current kind of person, it may or may not fit with what you want.

[pavman]

	Originally Posted by Colette To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Do you think it's possible that you could consider, at some point in future, choosing just one thread to post on, where you manage to avoid making sweeping and unfounded generalizations about 'how women are' or 'what they always do'? Your attitudes (as evidenced in recent posts) are at best irritating to me and others, and at worst, downright ignorant..

Actually, there are a number of threads on the board where I have yet to comment on women. Mainly because the threads are not related to relationships (seems like there's a high number of these threads in general). Perhaps you should branch out into other subjects that have more intellectual value.

I will attempt to curb my current subconscious excursions down this road to help appease you and your cohorts out of common civility.

Fortunately, I don't give a rats butt if people get irritated or if they think I'm ignorant. See, my MBTi is INTJ
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, not ESFJ.
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I just don't get why women are so irrationally emotional....

[Lucid]

	Originally Posted by pavman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I just don't get why women are so irrationally emotional....

I dunno Pavman, I think trolling is a pretty irrational activity and that's exactly what you're doing here (and in many other threads). Maybe that's why your experience with women has been mostly with the irrational emotional kind... like calls to like
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Besides, you keep insulting a large portion of this forum (the women, and yes, calling INTJ women irrationally emotional is an insult to us) because of some negative experiences you've had with some women. That seems pretty emotional and irrational to me.

[Jgib5328]

I think what pav means is that a lot more women are F types, and F types tend to be more 'emotionally irrational'. Since the majority of women are F types he decided to broaden his generalization to fit all women. The T women like you INTJ girls probably don't have this same problem.

[rwyatt365]

	Originally Posted by pavman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Actually, there are a number of threads on the board where I have yet to comment on women. Mainly because the threads are not related to relationships (seems like there's a high number of these threads in general). Perhaps you should branch out into other subjects that have more intellectual value.

I think that Colette has made some valuable contributions to other so-called "intellectual" threads so I would call that remark unfounded.

	I will attempt to curb my current subconscious excursions down this road to help appease you and your cohorts out of common civility.

Civility is always appreciated.

	Fortunately, I don't give a rats butt if people get irritated or if they think I'm ignorant. See, my MBTi is INTJ To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , not ESFJ. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I would think that your "NT" would give a wider, more accepting world view - able to take in and appreciate alternative points of view. I don't necessarily agree with everything that you (or anyone else) says, but I do try to understand and appreciate you for having a different train of thought.

	Originally Posted by Jgib5328 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think what pav means is that a lot more women are F types, and F types tend to be more 'emotionally irrational'. Since the majority of women are F types he decided to broaden his generalization to fit all women. The T women like you INTJ girls probably don't have this same problem.

Is this "what you meant to say" pav, or did you have some other thought in mind? There are many (but not all) that fit this stereotype.

[NeonTetra]

	Originally Posted by pavman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I just don't get why women are so irrationally emotional....

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	Originally Posted by Jgib5328 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think what pav means is that a lot more women are F types, and F types tend to be more 'emotionally irrational'. Since the majority of women are F types he decided to broaden his generalization to fit all women. The T women like you INTJ girls probably don't have this same problem.

And you clarified his statement in what way?

I guess this is part of the reason why I don't come over here too much. I suppose you all don't notice how often this sentiment arises here, but it's hard for me to take The Enlightened seriously when shit like this occurs every other thread.

Just stop reading!
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[Lucid]

	Originally Posted by pavman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I just don't get why women are so irrationally emotional....

Actually, let me see if I follow your logic here. It frustrates you that many women are irrationally emotional. So when you meet a group of women who are, by definition, less emotional and more rational than 98% of the population (both male and female) you insult them by insisting that they are irrationally emotional. Well that seems pretty irrational to me.
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But arguing with irrationals on the internet is a waste of time, as has frequently been pointed out to me. So....

[Jgib5328]

	Originally Posted by NeonTetra To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And you clarified his statement in what way?

What? I just gave my interpretation, I didn't say I had an opinion on it, I just figured that's what he meant so I figured I'd try and clarify.

We are all a bunch of non-feelers get used to commentary like this. I say insensitive stuff all of the time, my friends learned to live with it and came to be entertained by it.

You shouldn't be deterred from posting, maybe you'll get to learn something about people who are completely different from yourself.

[rwyatt365]

Generalizations are always problematic and we are often prone to them (wait...was that a generalization?!). It's a slippery slope into unfounded prejudices when one practices generalization often.

	Originally Posted by NeonTetra To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I guess this is part of the reason why I don't come over here too much. I suppose you all don't notice how often this sentiment arises here, but it's hard for me to take The Enlightened seriously when shit like this occurs every other thread.

Neon, there is a tendency for males to deprecate women (damn, another generalization!). Sometimes it's based on societal teachings, personal experiences, or tradition - whatever the case, the tendency to do this is pretty ingrained and hard to eradicate (unfortunately). The INTJ proclivity for "frank talk" and strong opinion, combined with a general (!!) lack of social graces will amplify these tendencies - often to the point of obnoxiousness. My wife often calls me an "arrogant ass" (I think it's her favorite characterizatio of me in fact), and often I'm quite unaware of why she would do so.

More often than not, we're not trying to be "arrogant asses", it's just in our mental DNA.

[NeonTetra]

@ jgib: So in other words, acclimate myself to dealing with assholes. Right.
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I tend to expect better from people and believe it or not I get it 95% of the time. And I enjoy putting myself in situations where I have to deal with people different than myself because it broadens my perspective. But that doesn't mean I have to accept ignorant platitudes in the name of expanding my horizons.

Thanks rwyatt
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my commentary was directed towards jgib.
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[robin.]

Okay, so it could totally be me here, but I honestly think he was just venting, as we all have a tendency to do, AND/OR he's trying to get a rise out of us. Obviously, we are not emotionally irrational, as most of us have proven by getting the INTJ result. Therefore, what he's asserting is just that...an assertion based on limited experience, not an argument. Thus, I've been ignoring these comments, and I think it would behoove the rest of the board to do so as well and cut the needless drama.

[prometheus]

Generalizations, eh? Women have better curves. :D I love to embrace the differences women have
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[ElstonGunn]

Originally Posted by robin. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Okay, so it could totally be me here, but I honestly think he was just venting, as we all have a tendency to do, AND/OR he's trying to get a rise out of us. Obviously, we are not emotionally irrational, as most of us have proven by getting the INTJ result. Therefore, what he's asserting is just that...an assertion based on limited experience, not an argument. Thus, I've been ignoring these comments, and I think it would behoove the rest of the board to do so as well and cut the needless drama.

Whoa, calm down, there. You don't have to raise your voice and yell at everybody like that. Geeze, you women are all so irrational... always flying off the handle at the drop of a hat.
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Seriously though... for me at least women have always been, and always will be confusing-- even level-headed, rational women like the ones around here. So I can't blame a man for venting, if that's what he's doing. I could do without the unfair generalizations and griping, but I guess those two things are kind of the definition of venting.

[Lucid]

	Originally Posted by ElstonGunn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Seriously though... for me at least women have always been, and always will be confusing-- even level-headed, rational women like the ones around here.

Really?? Why? I won't jump down your throat or anything (provided you don't make any really unfair generalizations or call us all stupid and irrational).

I guess that I'm pretty baffled by men as well sometimes. I think the difference is that I try not to insult all of you based on a few negative experiences I've had with some of you. And some of you can be pretty freaking confusing.

It is possible that pavman was just venting. And venting is ok. Personally, I can be a bit sensitive about being called an irrationally emotional female because I'm more rational than most men (hence the INTJness) and it often feels that some men (and some women) dismiss me out of hand because I'm a female and they assume that I'm irrational.

[robin.]

	Originally Posted by Lucid To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Really?? Why? I won't jump down your throat or anything (provided you don't make any really unfair generalizations or call us all stupid and irrational). I guess that I'm pretty baffled by men as well sometimes. I think the difference is that I try not to insult all of you based on a few negative experiences I've had with some of you. And some of you can be pretty freaking confusing.

I'm not sure that's a gender difference, I think that's a maturity difference. I've heard plenty of guys call girls irrational, and plenty of girls call guys pigs. It's an issue of being mature and realizing that there are always exceptions, and in order to come in contact with those wonderful beings, you have to distance yourself from the herd and act responsibly and kindly.

[Lucid]

	Originally Posted by robin. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'm not sure that's a gender difference, I think that's a maturity difference. I've heard plenty of guys call girls irrational, and plenty of girls call guys pigs. It's an issue of being mature and realizing that there are always exceptions, and in order to come in contact with those wonderful beings, you have to distance yourself from the herd and act responsibly and kindly.

I didn't mean to imply that it was a gender difference. Just an individual difference.
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[robin.]

Oh ok, gotcha.
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[pavman]

	Originally Posted by Lucid To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	like calls to like To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ...the women, and yes, calling INTJ women irrationally emotional is an insult to us

LOL. A whole thread on this...how nice of you.

I never said INTJ women were irrational. You're drawing inferred conclusions about your subset that is unwarranted.

Likewise, it seems to be a testament to my statements that some folks have reacted in an emotional way to my comments vis-a-vis inferring that they are lumped into the irrationally emotional group.

If anything, my posts indicating INTJ women are an exception proves my lack of generalizing all women are emotionally irrational.

If you must know why I've been like this recently...its because some of the NT women I know that I believed to be intelligent and rational, in RL mind you, have done a 180 in the recent past and its really annoying. I do respect women, but I do evaluate them on an individual basis as I evaluate everyone on the same standard. However, I'm also frank and candid about my positions and my theories, and I know of a few NT women in RL who have gotten upset at me over one theory in particular. In fact, its the same theory that upset women on this board and caused them emotionally react most likely because it included their demographic.

If they were objective/emotionally rational, then they wouldn't get upset and respond in the way they did; rather, they would try to argue against my theories and rationalities, IMHO, in an attempt to sway my position, backing up their arguments with real-life examples of why I am incorrect (or some other hard data to refute my theory).

The duplicity I've seen in one RL friend in particular has been frustrating me lately. It makes me think that some of these women specifically (not on this board, mind you) may have mental health issues or aren't as rational as they once portrayed themselves; this implies they are just lying to themselves, or at minimum, lying to me about who they are. I do find Fs to be more troublesome, but then perhaps its because I can't identify with them as much as I can with Ts.

To top that off:
1. This is the internet. Anonymous venting is one of the many benefits.
2. Sometimes I like to see how far I can push the envelope before something, or someone, breaks.
3. There are an awful lot of relationship threads, so I've been trying to share some of my experiences on these threads.

[Jgib5328]

Originally Posted by NeonTetra To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

@ jgib: So in other words, acclimate myself to dealing with assholes. Right. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. I tend to expect better from people and believe it or not I get it 95% of the time. And I enjoy putting myself in situations where I have to deal with people different than myself because it broadens my perspective. But that doesn't mean I have to accept ignorant platitudes in the name of expanding my horizons. Thanks rwyatt To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. my commentary was directed towards jgib. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Why was you commentary directed towards me? I wasn't claiming anything, I was trying to rationalize pav's thought process. Not once have I stated anything offensive.





Jgib5328 added to this post, 0 minutes and 57 seconds later...

What was this thread originally about? I swear to god it wasn't called this and we were talking about something else.

[Kotetsu]

I do find the comments directed at Jgib misplaced...

[pavman]

	Originally Posted by Jgib5328 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why was you commentary directed towards me? I wasn't claiming anything, I was trying to rationalize pav's thought process. Not once have I stated anything offensive. Jgib5328 added to this post, 0 minutes and 57 seconds later... What was this thread originally about? I swear to god it wasn't called this and we were talking about something else.

This thread tangented off of another thread. So you are not crazy.
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pavman added to this post, 5 minutes and 33 seconds later...

After scouring the board, using the somewhat annoying search function, I've only found one entry where I
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(and this thread was related to women, ironically) Emphasis added:

Anyway, just my $.02... I've already concluded that ALL women are crazy, so now I'm just trying to find a crazy I can deal with. Yep, I sure do make friends fast on boards

I saw personal character attacks after a number of generalized posts which, IMHO, is irrational...unless the goal is to vilify the postor, which wasn't readily apparent to me within the context of the responses.

But hey, at least I'm trying to find evidence to support my conclusions as stated above. I hardly think one post indicating ALL of any group can lead one to conclude that every mention of the same group, in future posts, is a generalization regarding all members of said group within the postor's mindset.

But then, I'm fairly open-minded.

[stasis]

	Originally Posted by pavman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If they were objective/emotionally rational, then they wouldn't get upset and respond in the way they did

And yet, you characterize your posts in this thread in terms of frustration and venting. What, I wonder, do you imagine it is being released from these pressurized vents? You aren't venting the glacial serenity of your logic, I'm sure.

Sophistic emotionalism is still emotionalism. Your conclusion about "women" is invalid.

[blueback]

Yeah, what is "emotionally rational" supposed to mean?