[justmeiguess]

OK, I was exploring various descriptions of INTJ from the lovely list on this forum and I came across this statement:

	They [INTJs] also want to be given a free hand to experiment, and if too tightly controlled, may become frustrated and resentful.

Source:
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This reminded me of something that happened a couple of years ago at Uni. We were working in groups of three, practising on the new video editing software. Now, when I don't know how to do something or something goes a little wrong I try to have a play around on the computer to see whether I can discover a way to solve it. However, I was in a group and could not persuade them to do this for the life of me. Instead, whenever the slightest thing went wrong or as soon as we encountered a hurdle, up went a hand to ask the tutor what to do. Sometimes this involved waiting a few mintues while he finished helping someone else and sometimes I had actually managed to solve the problem by the time he got to us. Luckily, I keep a tight reign on my temper, but still this has to have been one of the most stressful lessons I have ever encountered and I was so looking forward to learning to edit as well!

Similarly, when out and about in a new place I usually (unless I'm in a rush) refuse to ask for directions, preferring to work it out for myself. I hear is a man thing which is disturbing considering I'm a woman. Anyhow, this drives my friends absolutely crazy, but I just don't see the point in asking someone else when I'm perfectly capable of finding out for myself.

I don't know whether it's my shyness that stops me from asking for help or just plain old stubborness. Anyway, does anyone else do this?

[thegnat]

I've been told it's a man thing too - but I like you, am a woman. I do it too.

For me it's out of sheer stubbornness. And probably a *little* out of shyness. But mainly stubbornness.

I also in general can't stand to ask for help. I'll do it as long as I possibly can to figure it out myself before I ask for help. This is out of sheer pride and stubbornness. No shyness as a reason for this one. I feel weak if I ask for help in a way...

I know I'm smart and I have the capabilities to figure it out. I should be able to figure it out myself. That's kind of my philosophy.

It's *so* hard for me to go to office hours for pchem or any other subject I'm getting stuck on. Just out of pride. But I've justified it in the fact that that way the prof knows I'm not totally clueless.

[Rei]

Originally Posted by thegnat

I've been told it's a man thing too - but I like you, am a woman. I do it too. For me it's out of sheer stubbornness. And probably a *little* out of shyness. But mainly stubbornness. I also in general can't stand to ask for help. I'll do it as long as I possibly can to figure it out myself before I ask for help. This is out of sheer pride and stubbornness. No shyness as a reason for this one. I feel weak if I ask for help in a way... I know I'm smart and I have the capabilities to figure it out. I should be able to figure it out myself. That's kind of my philosophy. It's *so* hard for me to go to office hours for pchem or any other subject I'm getting stuck on. Just out of pride. But I've justified it in the fact that that way the prof knows I'm not totally clueless.

I will admit that it would first be my impatience, second would have been out of pride that I wouldn't ask for help.
So yeah, one reason why I hated group work. I have to wait for "uncertain" team members.

[thegnat]

Originally Posted by Rei

Originally Posted by thegnat I've been told it's a man thing too - but I like you, am a woman. I do it too. For me it's out of sheer stubbornness. And probably a *little* out of shyness. But mainly stubbornness. I also in general can't stand to ask for help. I'll do it as long as I possibly can to figure it out myself before I ask for help. This is out of sheer pride and stubbornness. No shyness as a reason for this one. I feel weak if I ask for help in a way... I know I'm smart and I have the capabilities to figure it out. I should be able to figure it out myself. That's kind of my philosophy. It's *so* hard for me to go to office hours for pchem or any other subject I'm getting stuck on. Just out of pride. But I've justified it in the fact that that way the prof knows I'm not totally clueless. I will admit that it would first be my impatience, second would have been out of pride that I wouldn't ask for help. So yeah, one reason why I hated group work. I have to wait for "uncertain" team members.

Oh god, group projects...the nightmares come flooding back...and waiting...oh the nightmares....

[mind_wander]

Waiting for uncertain team members, been there done that. You know, its seems like the uncertain team members are the best members to work with. Since, others think we don't fit in the big puzzle, but there are unique traits in help us to get the job done. I had ask previous members about this and the same comments; our main objective try to show others something different to prove others we are right. Chances of that is pretty high; so far 2x.

[rwyatt365]

Point #1; people that refuse to explore.
This drives me nuts! Sometimes I wonder what people use that grey stuff in their head for. When working in a group I often want to scream, "C'mon people, use your heads…think!!", because they cannot see beyond the obvious and like justmeiguess says they "raise their hands and ask for help" at the slightest hiccup. It's especially frustrating when I know the answer but others want to confirm what I already know with some authoritative source. That just means that the whole team wasted time and energy that could have been used to move forward.

Point #2; asking for directions.
It's been called a man-thing, but for me it's a confidence-thing. If I'm somewhere where I know the general lay of the land, but not some specific detail, I will use reasoning and deduction to find the way. If I'm somewhere new, I will have a map and refer to it for directions. Frankly, I find the "turn left at the tree stump and right at the windmill" kind of directions to be pretty sketchy. I need to know distances and alternatives in case route A doesn't work out.

[Chainsaw Dundee]

I don't like to get too much direction when Im learning a new skill. I'd rather have my mistakes, and general objective pointed out, and left on my own to figure out what process works best for me. If an overly specific suggestion they give me doesn't work, I get pissed off, and it's hard to stay in a good Zen-like mood.

[Nomad]

I have no trouble asking for directions. If it gets me my desired result faster....That being said, I usually take the backroads and use maps and local directions. Lets me explore a bit. I like figuring things out on my own. When I decided I needed to learn how to use a computer properly, I went from not knowing that the "at" in an email address was "@" to gutting the thing, rebuilding and upgrading and reinstalling everything in two months. I just decided I should know it. It was fun.

-Nomad

[justmeiguess]

	Originally Posted by Nomad
	I have no trouble asking for directions. If it gets me my desired result faster....That being said, I usually take the backroads and use maps and local directions. Lets me explore a bit. I like figuring things out on my own.

I will ask directions if I'm in a rush and don't have time to explore, but like you that's the bit I tend to like. In fact, I've been reading Keirsey's Please Understand Me II and according to him, us rational types get a real kick of our own ingenuity and it is in fact one of the main three factors in our concept of self worth.

	When I decided I needed to learn how to use a computer properly, I went from not knowing that the "at" in an email address was "@" to gutting the thing, rebuilding and upgrading and reinstalling everything in two months. I just decided I should know it. It was fun.

I always wanted to know how to fix a computer. I even went so far as to consider taking it as an elective module on my degree course. I'm so gutted that I opted instead for Cultural Studies which turned out to be such a waste of time.
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Don't think I could teach myself and I don't think my parents would appreciate me trying on the family computer.
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[aelan]

With school, I'll always try to figure something out before asking someone- sometime I just won't ask at all; I feel like it'd be irritating because I can usually figure things out on my own and shouldn't be wasting their time. *When doing a paper or project however, I like to have a list of instructions/criteria that we're expected to meet, so that I know exactly what the teacher is looking for (that way I can focus on what I'm doing, rather than wonder if I'm even doing what they want), so I'll sometimes ask them to clarify if they're not clear on that.

When I'm lost, I can usually find where I need to be. *I'll sometimes ask if I can't find it, or if I'm late and have no choice. *Usually when I get lost and stay lost though, it's because I really didn't care about finding the place anyways..

[TruorTupnm]

Ah, for directions on how to do something, before I've gotten lost, I've usually read books to get acquainted with whatever it is first. If I get lost, I prefer to work things out for myself, of course. If that seems to be too inefficent, though, I gots no problem with sauntering over to somebody who should know, giving them a skeptical look and pointing at the thing I need help with. "Greetings. That thing. Hidden manual? You have a bit of free times to figure it out?"

For directions, I usually look at maps and things before I go someplace. I'll head for the directory of some large building or complex before going anyplace, even if I won't be there for long. With free time, I'll explore. With no maps or free time available, it's usually easy to find the exits in a building then obtain bearings, and it's usually easy to find a gas station where I can find some directions and some snacks, why not?

[dayguard]

If I were to leave home to a place I've never been to, I'd make sure that I got a good read of the place on the map online. You cant really get lost in tiny Singapore. The technology is there, might as well use it.

Wouldnt have asked strangers for directions in the past. But seeing my friends doing it seems to get the job done efficiently. And I love efficiency. I'd probably ask directions from strangers if time were against me.

[Paul V]

I deeply hate admiting failure so... No. Never. I'd rather drive and be lost for hours than stopping for directions. I'll stick to my map and my plan, thank you very much.

[Epicurus]

I would use my sixth sense and probably get lost. Ofcourse I would work it out in the end most of the times, but I really don't like to ask anyone about anything, to much anxiety plus Im really stubborn.