[Mogura]

When it comes to relationships, romantic or otherwise, I firmly believe that knowing oneself is an essential step in the process. I mean, after all, if you don't know yourself, how do you know what you want (or don't want) out of the relationship--or life in general?

Anyways, I know myself all too well and 2 facts are evident:

1. I am slow to get to know.
2. I have trust issues.

Item number 2, I will have to work out on my own.

Item number 1 seems to be more of an issue for others more than it is for myself (well, it is an issue for me in that sense). And it would probably would explain why first dates never turn into second dates, etc., etc. A lot of these women seem to (unrealistically) expect some magical chemistry or intense romantic attraction will be revealed in the course of the first date. If not, then that's it--no second date.

I am not handsome or a fashionista by any measure, so I know that I cannot rely on my physical appearance to be "the pull". That's fine, I've got other tricks up my sleeve, namely being warm, confident, easy-going, and witty, and presenting myself as the balanced individual that I am. Plus, I've been there, done that, so I've always got stories to tell.

Despite all of my self-professed warmth and cultivated self worth, I am slow to get to know. I liken the discovery of my personality to the peeling of the layers of an onion--a process that requires time, effort, and patience. And it's not as if you're going to find an unpleasant surprise if you keep peeling--there's no dark pith or evil little worm sitting at the core, just onion. *Sigh* These women all seem to want a roller coaster ride that I just can't give; I'm not into roller coasters. Now, if they want a log ride, that's a different story.

So, all of the "conventional" ways of meeting and dating women--hitting on them in bars, walking up to them on the street, meeting them through friends, meeting them through one-off activities, meeting them through the Internet, etc. doesn't work for me. What does work for me is repeated exposure--the kind of situation you have in a college setting (I met my college GFs in the dorms), the kind of situation you have in an office setting. These are situations where the relationship pressure is not on, so the pressure to perform is not there; I can be myself. (I am not in college anymore, so I no longer have the ability to meet women in that particular setting.)

One caveat is, when I'm not in relationship hunting mode, I'm not the warmest person on the planet. This is especially true in the office, where I'm all about getting work done (except when I'm busy surfing INTJf!). I tend to be more INTJ in this respect (the getting shit done, not the slacking off aspect). No one at the office would ever peg me as an 'F'.

Ah, the office. Why don't I meet someone at the office? Only 30 people, mostly male, the few females that are here are... married. Relationship prospects aside, it's not a bad place to work. Would it be silly of me to quit my job to work for a larger company just for the purpose of meeting women because in some ways I am socially retarded? Hmm...

Has anyone been in this type of situation (slow to get to know/trust issues/lack of opportunities for meeting women)? How did you deal with it?

Thank you...

[Femmebott]

You assume women want that. Be YOU, because sooner or later that person is going to find you out.
I cant really say how to open up, except the person should get a good idea of how you are by the first week.

[Mogura]

I am ME (despite the fact this seems to be one of the problems).

It's not that I don't open up or harbor secrets or behave in an evasive manner. I will answer any questions accurately and honestly.

Granted, my life's not an open book (I don't even have an FB account), but if you lift the cover and peruse a few pages, you'll find something there...

[JohnDoe]

	Originally Posted by Femmebott To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You assume women want that. Be YOU, because sooner or later that person is going to find you out. I cant really say how to open up, except the person should get a good idea of how you are by the first week.

The first week? Seriously? How often are you seeing your interest to get that number?

[Takeru]

	Originally Posted by Mogura To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Has anyone been in this type of situation (slow to get to know/trust issues/lack of opportunities for meeting women)? How did you deal with it?

I am slow to get to know even if I want to be in a relationship. Not to forget I also have trust issues with people too. As for meeting women? I see them, I talk to them, we move on with our business. It is just that weird.

The only way to get past the trust issue is through repeated exposure and knowing that not all people are bad. Sort of hard in your situation since the place you are working for is full of males.

If someone was to talk to me out of the blue, my first reaction is, "What the heck does this person want out of me?" Also, not sure if talking to random people is good for you (I mean... on the street/bars/shops?!) I wouldn't want to be talking to some random person out of the blue.

I suppose if you do get into a relationship, the first thing you should let the other person know that you are slow to get to know, if that person takes the bait and continue even though you have said that, that person has an interest in you, if not, then so be it.

[JohnDoe]

	Originally Posted by Takeru916 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If someone was to talk to me out of the blue, my first reaction is, "What the heck does this person want out of me?" Also, not sure if talking to random people is good for you (I mean... on the street/bars/shops?!) I wouldn't want to be talking to some random person out of the blue.

Why not? If you don't trust people its not casual acquiescences that you have to worry about.

[Autoptic]

	Originally Posted by Takeru916 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If someone was to talk to me out of the blue, my first reaction is, "What the heck does this person want out of me?" Also, not sure if talking to random people is good for you (I mean... on the street/bars/shops?!) I wouldn't want to be talking to some random person out of the blue.

I wonder that about everyone since it's always a relevant question. Everyone's just as random unless you had a completely impersonal, non contrived reason to be specifically interacting with this person. Someone is a class is still random and talking to them specifically would be talking to a random person out of the blue.

[Takeru]

	Originally Posted by Autoptic To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I wonder that about everyone since it's always a relevant question. Everyone's just as random unless you had a completely impersonal, non contrived reason to be specifically interacting with this person. Someone is a class is still random and talking to them specifically would be talking to a random person out of the blue.

Well outside of a class. It may just be me, but talking to someone in the bar (unless you are just being friendly) sounds really odd. Same with being on the streets and shops. I can understand if it was a light discussion, but to take it all the way to a relationship sounds... like I said just odd. I wouldn't really associate talking to someone on the street and taking it to a relationship as something I find a good idea unless you know the person (not just their names.) There is an X factor that makes it kind of dangerous. I can understand that relationships can be built slowly even in places like on the streets and bars, but do you really want to start building a relationship with these people?

If it was in a different environment like a class setting, I can understand. In a class setting, mingling doesn't sound as unknown as getting to know people off the streets/bar. In these types of settings, you at least know who you are dealing with in a certain level.

Even knowing a friend that has a friend that wants to get into a relationship sounds a lot safer.

[JohnDoe]

Originally Posted by Takeru916 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Well outside of a class. It may just be me, but talking to someone in the bar (unless you are just being friendly) sounds really odd. Same with being on the streets and shops. I can understand if it was a light discussion, but to take it all the way to a relationship sounds... like I said just odd. I wouldn't really associate talking to someone on the street and taking it to a relationship as something I find a good idea unless you know the person (not just their names.) There is an X factor that makes it kind of dangerous. I can understand that relationships can be built slowly even in places like on the streets and bars, but do you really want to start building a relationship with these people? If it was in a different environment like a class setting, I can understand. In a class setting, mingling doesn't sound as unknown as getting to know people off the streets/bar. In these types of settings, you at least know who you are dealing with in a certain level. Even knowing a friend that has a friend that wants to get into a relationship sounds a lot safer.

Wait what? Some of the most dangerous, unsafe people I've met have been met in classes where you would think everyone would be safe, and some of the best people I've met have been random people on the street! This is an imagined stranger danger type fear. Hell yes I do want to meet the people at the bar.

[Takeru]

	Originally Posted by JohnDoe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Wait what? Some of the most dangerous, unsafe people I've met have been met in classes where you would think everyone would be safe, and some of the best people I've met have been random people on the street! This is an imagined stranger danger type fear. Hell yes I do want to meet the people at the bar.

Hahaha, then it might as well be my perception, but I don't know. It just seems odd to go to a bar for these types of things. Then again, I never been to a bar before because I don't drink.

[Mogura]

	Originally Posted by JohnDoe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Wait what? Some of the most dangerous, unsafe people I've met have been met in classes where you would think everyone would be safe, and some of the best people I've met have been random people on the street! This is an imagined stranger danger type fear. Hell yes I do want to meet the people at the bar.

Most fruitcakes I have met, I met though the Internet. Go figure!

[Takeru]

	Originally Posted by Mogura To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Most fruitcakes I have met, I met though the Internet. Go figure!

You can't blame me for worrying about sexual predators
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

[Causa Mortis]

	Originally Posted by Mogura To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Anyways, I know myself all too well and 2 facts are evident: 1. I am slow to get to know. 2. I have trust issues. Item number 2, I will have to work out on my own.

I have both of those, and severe social anxiety to top it off.

	A lot of these women seem to (unrealistically) expect some magical chemistry or intense romantic attraction will be revealed in the course of the first date. If not, then that's it--no second date.

They're right. If that's not there, then there's no point in dating unless its just about ass or money. If you haven't found it, then you're not meeting enough people.

So, all of the "conventional" ways of meeting and dating women--hitting on them in bars, walking up to them on the street, meeting them through friends, meeting them through one-off activities, meeting them through the Internet, etc. doesn't work for me. What does work for me is repeated exposure--the kind of situation you have in a college setting (I met my college GFs in the dorms), the kind of situation you have in an office setting. These are situations where the relationship pressure is not on, so the pressure to perform is not there; I can be myself. (I am not in college anymore, so I no longer have the ability to meet women in that particular setting.)

College is indeed the easiest possible place to meet people, but in my opinion either marry Ms. Righty and e-marry a World of Warcraft guild mate for companionship, or man up and deal with the social anxiety and rejections. Coffee shops, book stores, classes, church, the gym, etc are all more difficult than college but still pretty easy approaches where you'll rarely get busted on.

Of course you start small - very easy and low risk approaches and work your way up. Courage is a muscle.

	Ah, the office. Why don't I meet someone at the office? Only 30 people, mostly male, the few females that are here are... married. Relationship prospects aside, it's not a bad place to work. Would it be silly of me to quit my job to work for a larger company just for the purpose of meeting women because in some ways I am socially retarded? Hmm...

Don't shit where you eat. You can only pursue very, very cautiously in a work setting, and if it fails at some point its going to get run through the rumor mill. And any of it just adds another layer of complexity on already complex office politics.

[Mogura]

	Originally Posted by Causa Mortis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	They're right. If that's not there, then there's no point in dating unless its just about ass or money. If you haven't found it, then you're not meeting enough people.

Wouldn't you allow for the fact that some people are slow to get to know... that they can "grow on you"... they are slow to warm up... or you might end up being attracted to them after all, after meeting 3, 4, 5 times (or maybe more)?

	Originally Posted by Causa Mortis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Don't shit where you eat. You can only pursue very, very cautiously in a work setting, and if it fails at some point its going to get run through the rumor mill. And any of it just adds another layer of complexity on already complex office politics.

Oh, yeah. I'm all to familiar with the risks, headaches, and BS an office romance, successful or failed, would entail. I would only pursue this avenue as a "last resort", and only if other conditions are in place (more than 400 employees, working in different departments, on different floors, she approaches me/asks me out or flirts heavily enough that I can bank on it, etc.)

[Causa Mortis]

	Originally Posted by Mogura To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Wouldn't you allow for the fact that some people are slow to get to know... that they can "grow on you" or you might end up being attracted to them after all, after meeting 3, 4, 5 times or more?

If I'm still drawn to them for some reason and they haven't come out of their shell yet, then sure. However, if I don't feel that spark after a date or two, its likely time to move on if there's no spark and not that mysterious pull either.


Just keep moving bud. Dating can be painful at times, particularly if you're learning the ropes or have been out of the game for a while. The solution is to not dwell on the things that haven't worked, just to keep moving and learn by doing. You'll eventually find something that works, unless you give up, which admittedly can be hard to avoid doing.

[JohnDoe]

	Originally Posted by Causa Mortis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	They're right. If that's not there, then there's no point in dating unless its just about ass or money. If you haven't found it, then you're not meeting enough people.

I've never once met someone I "just clicked with" on the first meeting. Not once. Good to know I minus well declare failure right now regardless of what other metrics I might use.

[Autoptic]

	Originally Posted by JohnDoe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I've never once met someone I "just clicked with" on the first meeting. Not once. Good to know I minus well declare failure right now regardless of what other metrics I might use.

As with 1, I can be hard to get to know on the basis of sheer weirdness and resulting incorrect assumptions though probably lack Mogura's particular issue with trust as accepting situations I don't trust is just normal everyday though without such a potential payoff, but I seriously doubt that'd happen with me either. Rapport takes longer. They'll probably not usually be around that long which nicely compounds with the improbability of compatibility even after successful communication.

[admittedheretic]

I can so relate. The most attractive girl to ever ask me out was a coworker and I effectively denied her because of my slow getting to know need. I hardly knew anything about her and I knew she didn't know much about me. What was to like? Apparently some people only need a few details, but I need many to warrant taking a risk. I probably could be the poster boy for social anxiety disorder and I pretty much had to tell her about it because she is so confused by my lack of eye contact and facial expressions. I don't think she got the message that discussing something like such shows some trust and interest on my part. Maybe it could be a cultural thing because she is from the eastern world. I know they tend to emphasize eye contact a bunch and she frequently yells at me for not looking at her when she walks by.

Do you guys also gauge the trust factor based upon the context of what you talk about in conversation?

[Amphorian]

Yeah, it takes me awhile too. I have to be exposed to the person before I can just talk away (unless I force myself to do so). It took me weeks to talk to this guy that choose to sit right next to me in my Digitial Imaging class. It was obvious from day one he wanted to talk with me. xD

Perhaps take classes outside of work? Or go to places like cafes or libraries?

[Mogura]

	Originally Posted by Amphorian To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	[G]o to places like cafes or libraries?

I assume that people go to cafes or libraries because they want to be alone, thus they wouldn't be receptive to someone approaching them and saying hi.

I'm all for it, though. But that's just me...

[SeaCzar]

Do the things you like, and meet people that way. Form a common interest and take it from there. Easier said than done, I know, but its a start,

[Mogura]

	Originally Posted by SeaCzar To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Do the things you like, and meet people that way. Form a common interest and take it from there. Easier said than done, I know, but its a start,

I like sitting at home alone, listening to music, typing deranged marmot messages on INTJf. I don't see that as an activity conducive to meeting women IRL. But I get your point.

Unfortunately, all of my "external world" interests seem to be outdoor related. Not too many women interested in the outdoors in my corner of the world (I live in the city--most women here claim shopping and sleeping to be their legitimate hobbies)...

[Shirley]

If it's possible, you might consider taking an evening class. Maybe something with an even gender mix or even female dominated if possible. Perhaps study a new language in the evenings or take some art classes. Not only are you expanding your knowledge (last I checked, a very INTJ thing to do!) but you are placing yourself in a situation where you may meet someone of the opposite gender in a method suited to your relationship style.

From there, you can check and see if any of these women are worth your time over the 4 months or 'roundabouts of class time.

[navelgazer]

	(I live in the city--most women here claim shopping and sleeping to be their legitimate hobbies)...

Marmot, these are not the droids you are looking for. I concur with several other posters - you need to get out to meet women, but if you are doing something that interests you, I imagine it will be easier for them to get to know you. If I were in this position I would be checking out a guided day of birding... maybe thru the museum? Or gallery openings. Or community courses... bonzai trees? Yoga?

[Causa Mortis]

	Originally Posted by Mogura To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I assume that people go to cafes or libraries because they want to be alone, thus they wouldn't be receptive to someone approaching them and saying hi. I'm all for it, though. But that's just me...

A lot are there to be alone. Probably half. And some will be rude when you approach. But some will appreciate the approach.

If you're not meeting people naturally, the choice becomes a lifetime of loneliness and masturbation or approaching a large number of women, getting busted on about 1/10 times, getting politely blown off half the time, and having interest in some form reciprocated about 40-50% of the time.

So what's it going to be: a huge lump on your hand and a lifetime of loneliness, or man up, approach, and giggle when they bust on you.