Best guitar to learn on?

**alrightgame** · 10-03-2009, 07:45 PM

What is the best beginner guitar to learn on for under 200 dollars?
I am looking for a guitar that is quiet around the neighbors.

I heard a regular acoustic guitar is the recommended beginning guitar, but I prefer rock style music and effects driven guitar sounds like Tom Morello's work. Is it possible to get a guitar with digital I/O so earphones can be used without the use of amplifiers or extra equipment?

Yes, I am a novice to sound equipment, so I will need to have an explanation if I cannot do this.

**reb** · 10-03-2009, 08:14 PM

if you want to do heavy stuff like i'm hearing on morello's website right now, then nearly any electric with enough effects can be made to do this. under $200 puts you in a pretty tough spot; i fyou buy something used for this price, you have to know how to evaluate its condition in order to not get shafted.

i once ordered one of the fender squier telecasters. i think it was $179; but that leaves you zip for effects. if you go electric, you want a straight neck-to get this, you got to have a good tension rod setup. the frets have got to be decently dressed and set; you have to have a small tuner like my korg to adjust intonation (you are going to be your own guitar tech if your funds are limited).

do you have a music store near you that you can go try guitars? my advice would be to go from store to store, to pawn shop to pawn shop for 6 months before you buy your first guitar. every person you talk to is going to have an opinion. the only one that matters is yours...and yo uhave to have information to develop an informed opinion.

'guitar player' magazine has had some 'under $500 tests' of solidbody electrics. i can look those up and tell you what they showed, and you can try to ebay one for under $200 (but get a 5 day right of return). you would need some kind of an interface, like one of the amps that plugs into the jack on the guitar and then into ear buds or headphones to hear what you're doing until you can afford an amp. when you talk that digital i/o, i think you just went into high territory, although you might find a travel guitar that does exactly that...

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twice your price, though. maybe ebay (again?). the guitar player staff routinely make me slobber about the old guitars they find on ebay.

perhaps the first thing is the 'guitar player repair guide'. this will give you access to lots of info about guitars, electronics, what breaks, what not to mess with:

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if you had the guide, a steel ruler from hobby lobby art department, a $20 tuner (korg or other), you could evaluate all the meaningful 'playing factors'; if you are doing this in a shop, you can use one of their amps to see if the thing has decent tone and the switches and pickups work, or if they scratch and puke out. you might have $60 in 'test equipment', and another $60 in gasoline before you found 'your baby', but it'd be a better baby than not knowing if what you're looking at is solid to start with.

i guess that's my best advice...read the 'guitar player repair guide', get some basic tools, and then go shop flea markets, pawns (miltary bases have great pawn shops surrounding them) and maybe ebay if you want to put up with that.

that, and hanging out in music stores and on forums will give you a head ful of stuff to think about. the squiers would not be a bad place to start, but a lot of the entry level stuff has 'not great electronics'; not great necks...but some great players have started on lousy guitars, for true.

**daydreamer** · 10-03-2009, 10:46 PM

my pick: a used ibanez. the strings are close to the neck, easier for learning. and rosewood frets are very forgiving. plenty left for an amp/speaker/tuner/mixer whatever you want, and pedals.

here's an example:
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the pickups vary, but the price is about the same.

**Shorgenfunkel** · 10-03-2009, 10:57 PM

	Originally Posted by alrightgame To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	guitar to learn on

	Originally Posted by alrightgame To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	effects driven guitar sounds

WOAH there. First off, you're not going to get both a guitar AND effects for the amount of money you said, and for another thing, at this stage in the game you shouldn't have any.

Learn to play for a while without 'em before you get some, because shit with sugar is still shit. It's easy to make enhancements that you have from the start into crutches.

Digital I/O built-in is another thing... it's definitely possible, but in your price range, I heavily doubt it. You're probably going to need a cheap headphone amp, and if all else fails, there are numerous guides on the web to build your own.

In terms of the actual GUITAR, I'd say get a Dean. Squier, despite being the quintessential beginner guitars, are only a light tap-with-a-doctor's-mallet-for-the-buck (they play abysmally), whereas a Dean, for the same price in the lower ranges is a bang-with-a-sledgehammer-for-said-buck.

**HackerX** · 10-04-2009, 02:22 AM

	Originally Posted by daydreamer To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	my pick: a used ibanez.

This + a modelling amp for the effects. No way you'd get anything for $200 though.

Honestly though, don't go cheap on a guitar, it will only end in tears. The problem with going cheap on a beginner guitar is that it will sound like shit, play like shit and leave you disillusioned as to whether you want to keep playing.

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SA160 - Light mahogany body, the SA160 in particular are known to be gems despite being at the low end of the market (I know because I own one).

Avoid GRG, RX and 100 series RG's, try to get a Korean produced Ibanez.

You don't need an amp for an electric to begin with either if you're only playing in your bedroom, you just won't have the effects.

Something like this would make a good beginner amp for effects:

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but frankly, when it comes to amps, you tend to get what you pay for, and if you want good, you need to fork out a lot.

My beginner setup (the ibanez SA160QMTR and the marshall 10w SS), cost $900AU new, I added the effects amp later for a few hundred more:

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**tp6626** · 10-04-2009, 03:39 AM

I was pretty impressed with the sound & playability of a yamaha pacifica, for the price they retail at. I still use one now, as my electric. They have a good range of colours too.

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Getting into Morello / RATM style effects could be pretty expensive, at least relative to your $200 budget.

The guitar would take up most of that. I wouldn't recommend getting a dirt cheap guitar, as it'll sound bad, possible be harder to play, won't feel as nice, and will look cheap / tacky. All that will add up to putting you off wanting to play.

A cheap amp, on the other hand, might be worth considering. Either 10 or 15 watts should do, with a headphone socket, separate volume and gain control at minimum.

If you do come by some extra cash, you may even be able to skip getting an amp if you're only interested in starting with headphones. Line6 do a product called a POD amp-modeller that has always impressed me (though I've never owned one myself). In fact, I they bought out a cheaper pocket one that looks pretty good:

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You could use that on its own with guitar and headphones, or hook it up to the line input of a hifi system for use with speakers, or into your PC for recording. Plenty of options with it.

So, my recommendation:

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**Mozzes** · 10-04-2009, 05:42 AM

I'm going to defend the purchase of a cheap Squier for a couple of reasons. The first is because you can buy it in these "starter packs" for about $200 if you look around.

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The Squier strat isn't the best guitar but it's a great value for the price especially since those starter packs come with a tuner (not great but it gets the job done) and practice amp. The amps are pretty solid though and a good practice amp alone can run over $100.

I would warn against a large initial investment (and $500+ dollars for a decent Strat, Les Paul, Ibanez S-series or similar guitar plus equipment may be a very large investment considering he wants a $200 budget). I've given bass lessons and my observation is that very few people who set out to learn how to play actually persist in that goal. Usually, once a person learns that it takes consistent practice to learn how to play a musical instrument they quit either because they lack the personal discipline to they decide they don't have the time in their life for it.

So, my suggestion to the OP is buy cheap and within your budget and once you decide guitar playing is a hobby you're going to keep then sell your cheap Squier or Dean or whatever you get and put it towards the purchase of a decent mid-range guitar. I'd also suggest worrying about effects equipment *after* developing a set of basic playing skills. Also, decent effects pedals will run more than $150.

**reb** · 10-04-2009, 07:21 AM

here's some basic stuff:

1. if you are not driven to play internally, you will never get really good.

2. technology does not make music-examples (last one i liked best):

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wish i could find billy gibbons with his cigar box guitar-knock yer socks off-here he lays on the technology and distortion. underneath it is 'magic fingers' and a brain wired into music. how he keeps from getting his goddam beard caught in the strings, i don't know...

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3. google les paul. he's the father of modern recording and electric guitar, possibly with leo fender. if you know history, you have inspiration; if you have inspiration, you have music, but you have to have 'clarity' to get it out.

just for a mind twister, Emmett Chapman was featured in the most recent issue of 'guitar player'. i found this blackleing:

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**alrightgame** · 10-04-2009, 01:20 PM

Thanks tp6626, I found your information the most useful. As far as effect driven guitar work, I guess I won't be able to start out with that kind of stuff since I'll be learning to play first and foremost. My interests lie in psychedelic and effects, especially that of Tom Morello in Audioslave, old Gilmour (
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[I love when he starts playing here],
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,
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[a lot of rage influence in this song],
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,
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,
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).

Also, the item you listed seems very useful, as it can make a bad guitar sound good when messing around with it on the computer.

At the same time, I can't help but feel that maybe I should go acoustic at first then save money up for a decent electric, since eventually I am going to run into the problem of the thing falling apart, and acoustic seems cheaper to upkeep and it is a bit easier to buy them used (easier to determine if it is good shape or not). Can acoustic guitar roots be applied to electric and vice versa?

Can anyone point me in the direction of a good do-it-yourself lessons start out guide as well? I'm obviously going to need to learn terms here.

Edit: That box guitar is pretty cool too R.

**HackerX** · 10-04-2009, 01:52 PM

	Originally Posted by alrightgame To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	At the same time, I can't help but feel that maybe I should go acoustic at first then save money up for a decent electric, since eventually I am going to run into the problem of the thing falling apart, and acoustic seems cheaper to upkeep and it is a bit easier to buy them used (easier to determine if it is good shape or not). Can acoustic guitar roots be applied to electric and vice versa?

Of course. Though:
a) An electric, in my opinion, is easier to learn on and play. The strings are lighter, the action is lower etc etc
b) Cheap acoustics are generally made even worse than cheap electrics these days

I personally would put your $200 into an electric now, and save up for an amp. Upkeep isn't really that much, especially if you treat it right.

An amp can't really make a bad guitar sound good, by the way, it just makes it a bitch to get a decent sound at all.

As far as choosing guitars though, you're really wasting your time asking for suggestions here. What you need to do is go into a music store and pick up everything they have on the shelf and see what feels the best in your hands (Everything, even the ones that are out of your price range, you want to get a feel of what's good for you and what's not). Then come back and tell us and go from there.

**MartinH** · 10-04-2009, 01:55 PM

When you mention the computer - are you aiming to record onto it? You'll need software, etc. there too.

Electrics don't generally fall apart, they're pretty simple devices - my son found it much easier to play when he moved from acoustic to electric. I have the PocketPod pictured above, and it's pretty cool, it has lots of effects. There's a smaller cheaper one now too, without any display - I'd have a look at both and see what you like.

For starter amps, I wouldn't rule out battery powered ones - my daughter has the Orange Micro Crush, and for tone and volume considering it's battery powered, it's awesome. Heavy too, and has a tuner built it.

I started with a Squier Strat, and I'm on my second guitar, an Ibanez RG, whcih I'd definitely recommend for learning on, so I'm going with all the people above who said "used Ibanez"...

Ibanez RG or GRG

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Line6 PocketPod

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Orange Micro Crush

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And you're done!

**alrightgame** · 10-04-2009, 03:33 PM

	Originally Posted by HackerX To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	An amp can't really make a bad guitar sound good, by the way, it just makes it a bitch to get a decent sound at all.

What I meant by this is you can edit the sound on a computer. You don't have to use the original sound, as it can be replaced with another sound.

Software isn't too hard to get as I have no morals in the sense of getting the software... sorry, it is just the way it goes with something that can be duplicated so easily.

Also, to make things clear, do I need an amplifier if I have the Line6 PocketPod and a set of headphones?

After a little research, a Ibanez S looks like the best beginner series. Which one would you recommend getting used?
Nevermind, HackerX listed it.

**tp6626** · 10-04-2009, 04:06 PM

You don't need an amp to use that pocket pod, nope. However, if you did go the acoustic route, you wouldn't be able to use the pod unless the acoustic is hooked up to it in some way. Two options there:

1. Buy a standard acoustic guitar, and an acoustic pickup.
2. Buy an electro-acoustic guitar.

Now, if you're aiming to play acoustic first, that probably is sligtly more difficult, for the reasons hackerX already stated. The fingerboards are often larger too, requiring more stretches and force to hold notes down. But then that would make a transition to electric easier later on. I have a bottom range Tanglewood acoustic that I got brand new for £145 with a hard case. Bargain!

Another thing if you're going acoustic, is that they often come out sounding 'thick' / 'fuzzy' when you amplify them or apply effects. You might just get muddy sounds trying to play audioslave stuff, for example, and it won't be too impressive. An electro acoustic is slightly better for that, but still not ideal. It's not very typical to distort an acoustic at all really, though might be quite novel, I don't know.

If you have a good computer, something like Cubase is good for recording, and there are loads of downloadable effects processors. If you get a good (professional) sound card, it would even be able to process a few effects in real time. I have an M-Audio Audiophile 2496, which has extremely low latency even with 2 or 3 effects running. It's the reverbs that are computationally expensive though, in term of creating latency.

**HackerX** · 10-04-2009, 04:10 PM

	Originally Posted by alrightgame To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What I meant by this is you can edit the sound on a computer. You don't have to use the original sound, as it can be replaced with another sound. Software isn't too hard to get as I have no morals in the sense of getting the software... sorry, it is just the way it goes with something that can be duplicated so easily.

As they say, you can't polish a turd. Which is to say, a shit pickup or bad playing with leave you with a crap input signal, and there's only so much you can do.

	Originally Posted by alrightgame To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Also, to make things clear, do I need an amplifier if I have the Line6 PocketPod and a set of headphones?

Maybe? the POD acts as a preamp, but it will have a 1/4" jack, so you'll need a converter at least. The amp I listed is basically a POD + A solid state amp combined. I wouldn't get a pocket pod either way, get one of the bigger ones.

	Originally Posted by alrightgame To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	After a little research, a Ibanez S looks like the best beginner series. Which one would you recommend getting used? Nevermind, HackerX listed it.

The S series runs the gauntlet from beginner to pro. The S470 is a popular midlevel model with pros. I mention the S & SA series because their beginner models tend to be better made than the beginner model RG series (which are the most popular ibanez's). Personally, I can't stand the necks on the cheap RG's. I prefer the mahogany bodies of the S's too.

**alrightgame** · 10-04-2009, 04:59 PM

I'll have to go to a store and check these out. I have very short fingers, but my arms are rather long, so I'll need to make sure they fit.

I'll go with the Pocketpod because it is cheaper, and I live in an apartment. If I'm ever playing with people, they will most likely already have the equipment available to jam with, and I don't want to spend too much just in case I do decide I really don't have time to play. I plan on putting 1/2 hour to an hour a day into playing.

I've decided on electric on what you guys have told me, and most likely a low-end Korean made Ibanez so it lasts.

What equipment should I pick up with the guitar (what kind of excess cord, picks, thimbles, tweak tools, and repair kits)?

I actually started out playing the drums and was never able to coordinate my feet into playing, but I did have the timing down in my arms and fingers, so it made me think of the guitar.

If I trained myself to learn on a practice pad, I think I can learn a guitar with crappy sound. I am rarely driven by the sound of the equipment, more of the technique in the playing. I want something that is built to last, is great for beginner's, and is quiet around the neighbors, so all in all, I like the idea of spending another 100-200 more to make sure this happens. I'll go with the POD and an Ibanez/xxx/xxx that will fit my body and not fall apart on me as these meet my criteria.

Thanks for the information guys.

**HackerX** · 10-04-2009, 05:45 PM

	Originally Posted by alrightgame To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'll have to go to a store and check these out. I have very short fingers, but my arms are rather long, so I'll need to make sure they fit.

By all means, you might find that the Ibanez's are horrible for you. However, their thin necks will suit your short fingers.

What you will be able to see is the differences in neck shapes and body shapes etc and get a feel for what suits you. It's surprising, for a new player at least, just how much a difference this can make. An Ibanez neck is hugely different to the thick neck an acoustic would typically come with.

A guitar with a floating bridge will be harder to restring, especially for a newbie. Keep that in mind.

	Originally Posted by alrightgame To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'll go with the Pocketpod because it is cheaper, and I live in an apartment. If I'm ever playing with people, they will most likely already have the equipment available to jam with, and I don't want to spend too much just in case I do decide I really don't have time to play. I plan on putting 1/2 hour to an hour a day into playing.

See if the store will demo them for you, and compare the features a bit. I just feel that the pocket pod will be limited by what you can chain together as opposed to the POD.

Out of interest, the big amp in my picture is basically one of these:

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- which is behringer's competitor to the POD matched to an amp.

	Originally Posted by alrightgame To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What equipment should I pick up with the guitar (what kind of excess cord, picks, thimbles, tweak tools, and repair kits)?

A short lead (1.8metres is probably the shortest and all you'll need).
Grab a whole bunch of different sized picks, you're going to need to learn what you like best. Don't get smooth ones, get ones with grip for your fingers, like dunlop nylons etc. Dunlop make good picks, so grab a bunch from their range. the Tortex ones are popular, and I like their heavy Jazz/Stubby ones.
If the POD doesn't have a built in tuner (the v-amp did, not sure if the pocket pod does) then you should grab a korg tuner:
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A new set of strings (9-46 would be my pick) and some lemon oil for when you need to restring, but you don't need that right away.

If you buy from a shop, get the bastards to restring it with new strings as part of the deal.

Shouldn't need anything else to begin with, maybe a stand to put it on
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	Originally Posted by alrightgame To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I want something that is built to last, is great for beginner's, and is quiet around the neighbors.

Most of the time I don't even bother to turn my amp on, I just play my electrics "dry".

**MartinH** · 10-04-2009, 06:10 PM

	Originally Posted by alrightgame To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Also, to make things clear, do I need an amplifier if I have the Line6 PocketPod and a set of headphones?

Nope, you can play it straight into headphones - that's parts of what it's for - portable effects unit for practicing on your own (even has a belt clip).

MartinH added to this post, 13 minutes and 9 seconds later...

As for equipment, what HackerX said really - shortest cord you can for guitar to PocketPod, a stand.

I went for simple with my second guitar (an Ibanez RGR08LTD) - fixed bridge, single active pickup, no trem, tone knob or anything - I figure I should learn to play it well before adding complications.

Personally I really like the thin neck on the Ibanez, but like HX says, try some. Also if you're aiming for Tom-like sound you may want slightly heavier strings (mine came with 10-52, and they're fine for me). I do play a few RATM tracks with it, in a slowly improving sort of way...

Again what HX says, try lots of picks - I settled on a 0.8, my daughter uses a smooth 1.1 and son uses two - a 1.0 for picking and an 0.5 for strumming. When he discovered the 0.5 for strumming it was a huge difference.

PocketPods with displays do have a tuner built in, so you won't need one (the shop might throw one in). A full POD would be way better than a PocketPod, and more compatible with software too (it can hold Line 6 plugin licenses, etc.), but it's also way more expensive. I have a GuitarPort and software which does much the same thing, but I hardly use it (I just want a nicer sounding amp head...)

I'd still go for a cheap battery powered amp, but that's because I don't like wearing headphones for a long time - I don't find it comfortable, and my wife creeps up on me.

**Conservationist** · 10-04-2009, 07:26 PM

	Originally Posted by alrightgame To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What is the best beginner guitar to learn on for under 200 dollars?

You are looking for an electric; you need to buy used. I recommend Ibanez.

I would get a small amp like a pignose for about $50 and use that to practice. If you don't blast it, it's not a big sound problem.

**HackerX** · 10-04-2009, 08:56 PM

	Originally Posted by MartinH To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Again what HX says, try lots of picks - I settled on a 0.8, my daughter uses a smooth 1.1 and son uses two - a 1.0 for picking and an 0.5 for strumming. When he discovered the 0.5 for strumming it was a huge difference.

Yeah, everyone's different here.

I use a 0.63 for strumming, and also at various times am likely to be comfortable with a .88 or a 1mm sharpie, and 2mm & 3mm big stubbies are my favourites for lead stuff.

The RGR's are a nice guitar, I agree with getting a fixed bridge
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My other guitar is a RG321MH, looks like:

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To be honest, it's not as well made as the SA160, but it looks sexy and the neck is awesome. And the body is damn amazing to touch and lean against, compared to the usual clear coats most guitars have. Has a totally different neck on it compared to the floating RG3xx's

**daydreamer** · 10-04-2009, 10:13 PM

this is exactly like my baby. oh the 80s....

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**alrightgame** · 10-04-2009, 10:48 PM

How does a packaged deal
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this sound (granted, I'll still need to try before I buy, but it seems like an excellent little package)?

**HackerX** · 10-04-2009, 10:57 PM

Like I said, I can't stand the GRG's, the necks on them just don't suit me. And they are the low end of things. When it comes to comparing the different companies packages, the Ibanez ones win hands down (without a doubt, the squire, LTD and epiphone versions aren't much better than glorified firewood), but they don't compare to stepping up a couple of price points and getting something better.

**Conservationist** · 10-05-2009, 08:51 AM

Most package deals are ripoffs.

After all, they're bigger moneymakers for the company than selling the parts separately.

Ponder, ponder.

**themuzicman** · 10-05-2009, 09:13 AM

A fairly good local musician once describe a beginner guitar as a "beginning of the end" guitar. He suggested getting a better grade used guitar (referb from a guitar store), and forget the effects until you've mastered the basics. I got mine (can't for the life of me remember what it was... it is white and electric) for $120 (it was 6 or 7 years old, but in great shape), and best of all it tends to stay in tune (I guess this is the major issue with beginner guitars). I used headphones through my self-study program, and then someone bought me some effects for Christmas.

**MartinH** · 10-05-2009, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by HackerX
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The RGR's are a nice guitar, I agree with getting a fixed bridge
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My other guitar is a RG321MH,

To be honest, it's not as well made as the SA160, but it looks sexy and the neck is awesome. And the body is damn amazing to touch and lean against, compared to the usual clear coats most guitars have. Has a totally different neck on it compared to the floating RG3xx's

Sweet - the RG321 is what mine's based on:

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Fixed bridge, single SD active pickup, reversed head (i.e. some left handed heads left over after last season) and blacks tuners, etc. With black strings
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I haven't tried the GRGs in person, but they *are* cheap. My original Squier strat I found to be pretty good, although it needed tuning all the damn time, especially if you touch the trem.

The package seems OK, but not if you didn't actually want an amp...
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Daydreamer - that's a pretty baby...

10-03-2009, 07:45 PM	#1
alrightgame Member [20%] MBTI: IXTJ Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 801	What is the best beginner guitar to learn on for under 200 dollars? I am looking for a guitar that is quiet around the neighbors. I heard a regular acoustic guitar is the recommended beginning guitar, but I prefer rock style music and effects driven guitar sounds like Tom Morello's work. Is it possible to get a guitar with digital I/O so earphones can be used without the use of amplifiers or extra equipment? Yes, I am a novice to sound equipment, so I will need to have an explanation if I cannot do this.
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10-03-2009, 08:14 PM	#2
reb Core Member [257%] MBTI: XNTJ Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 10,280	if you want to do heavy stuff like i'm hearing on morello's website right now, then nearly any electric with enough effects can be made to do this. under $200 puts you in a pretty tough spot; i fyou buy something used for this price, you have to know how to evaluate its condition in order to not get shafted. i once ordered one of the fender squier telecasters. i think it was $179; but that leaves you zip for effects. if you go electric, you want a straight neck-to get this, you got to have a good tension rod setup. the frets have got to be decently dressed and set; you have to have a small tuner like my korg to adjust intonation (you are going to be your own guitar tech if your funds are limited). do you have a music store near you that you can go try guitars? my advice would be to go from store to store, to pawn shop to pawn shop for 6 months before you buy your first guitar. every person you talk to is going to have an opinion. the only one that matters is yours...and yo uhave to have information to develop an informed opinion. 'guitar player' magazine has had some 'under $500 tests' of solidbody electrics. i can look those up and tell you what they showed, and you can try to ebay one for under $200 (but get a 5 day right of return). you would need some kind of an interface, like one of the amps that plugs into the jack on the guitar and then into ear buds or headphones to hear what you're doing until you can afford an amp. when you talk that digital i/o, i think you just went into high territory, although you might find a travel guitar that does exactly that... To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. twice your price, though. maybe ebay (again?). the guitar player staff routinely make me slobber about the old guitars they find on ebay. perhaps the first thing is the 'guitar player repair guide'. this will give you access to lots of info about guitars, electronics, what breaks, what not to mess with: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. if you had the guide, a steel ruler from hobby lobby art department, a $20 tuner (korg or other), you could evaluate all the meaningful 'playing factors'; if you are doing this in a shop, you can use one of their amps to see if the thing has decent tone and the switches and pickups work, or if they scratch and puke out. you might have $60 in 'test equipment', and another $60 in gasoline before you found 'your baby', but it'd be a better baby than not knowing if what you're looking at is solid to start with. i guess that's my best advice...read the 'guitar player repair guide', get some basic tools, and then go shop flea markets, pawns (miltary bases have great pawn shops surrounding them) and maybe ebay if you want to put up with that. that, and hanging out in music stores and on forums will give you a head ful of stuff to think about. the squiers would not be a bad place to start, but a lot of the entry level stuff has 'not great electronics'; not great necks...but some great players have started on lousy guitars, for true.
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10-03-2009, 10:46 PM	#3
daydreamer Veteran Member [66%] MBTI: xntx Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,644	my pick: a used ibanez. the strings are close to the neck, easier for learning. and rosewood frets are very forgiving. plenty left for an amp/speaker/tuner/mixer whatever you want, and pedals. here's an example: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. the pickups vary, but the price is about the same.
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10-04-2009, 03:39 AM	#6
tp6626 Core Member [108%] MBTI: iNTj Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,338	I was pretty impressed with the sound & playability of a yamaha pacifica, for the price they retail at. I still use one now, as my electric. They have a good range of colours too. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Getting into Morello / RATM style effects could be pretty expensive, at least relative to your $200 budget. The guitar would take up most of that. I wouldn't recommend getting a dirt cheap guitar, as it'll sound bad, possible be harder to play, won't feel as nice, and will look cheap / tacky. All that will add up to putting you off wanting to play. A cheap amp, on the other hand, might be worth considering. Either 10 or 15 watts should do, with a headphone socket, separate volume and gain control at minimum. If you do come by some extra cash, you may even be able to skip getting an amp if you're only interested in starting with headphones. Line6 do a product called a POD amp-modeller that has always impressed me (though I've never owned one myself). In fact, I they bought out a cheaper pocket one that looks pretty good: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. You could use that on its own with guitar and headphones, or hook it up to the line input of a hifi system for use with speakers, or into your PC for recording. Plenty of options with it. So, my recommendation: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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10-04-2009, 05:42 AM	#7
Mozzes Veteran Member [50%] MBTI: xxxx Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,008	I'm going to defend the purchase of a cheap Squier for a couple of reasons. The first is because you can buy it in these "starter packs" for about $200 if you look around. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. The Squier strat isn't the best guitar but it's a great value for the price especially since those starter packs come with a tuner (not great but it gets the job done) and practice amp. The amps are pretty solid though and a good practice amp alone can run over $100. I would warn against a large initial investment (and $500+ dollars for a decent Strat, Les Paul, Ibanez S-series or similar guitar plus equipment may be a very large investment considering he wants a $200 budget). I've given bass lessons and my observation is that very few people who set out to learn how to play actually persist in that goal. Usually, once a person learns that it takes consistent practice to learn how to play a musical instrument they quit either because they lack the personal discipline to they decide they don't have the time in their life for it. So, my suggestion to the OP is buy cheap and within your budget and once you decide guitar playing is a hobby you're going to keep then sell your cheap Squier or Dean or whatever you get and put it towards the purchase of a decent mid-range guitar. I'd also suggest worrying about effects equipment after developing a set of basic playing skills. Also, decent effects pedals will run more than $150.
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10-04-2009, 07:21 AM	#8
reb Core Member [257%] MBTI: XNTJ Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 10,280	here's some basic stuff: 1. if you are not driven to play internally, you will never get really good. 2. technology does not make music-examples (last one i liked best): To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. wish i could find billy gibbons with his cigar box guitar-knock yer socks off-here he lays on the technology and distortion. underneath it is 'magic fingers' and a brain wired into music. how he keeps from getting his goddam beard caught in the strings, i don't know... To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. 3. google les paul. he's the father of modern recording and electric guitar, possibly with leo fender. if you know history, you have inspiration; if you have inspiration, you have music, but you have to have 'clarity' to get it out. just for a mind twister, Emmett Chapman was featured in the most recent issue of 'guitar player'. i found this blackleing: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by reb; 10-04-2009 at 08:43 AM.
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10-04-2009, 01:20 PM	#9
alrightgame Member [20%] MBTI: IXTJ Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 801	Thanks tp6626, I found your information the most useful. As far as effect driven guitar work, I guess I won't be able to start out with that kind of stuff since I'll be learning to play first and foremost. My interests lie in psychedelic and effects, especially that of Tom Morello in Audioslave, old Gilmour ( To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. [I love when he starts playing here], To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. [a lot of rage influence in this song], To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ). Also, the item you listed seems very useful, as it can make a bad guitar sound good when messing around with it on the computer. At the same time, I can't help but feel that maybe I should go acoustic at first then save money up for a decent electric, since eventually I am going to run into the problem of the thing falling apart, and acoustic seems cheaper to upkeep and it is a bit easier to buy them used (easier to determine if it is good shape or not). Can acoustic guitar roots be applied to electric and vice versa? Can anyone point me in the direction of a good do-it-yourself lessons start out guide as well? I'm obviously going to need to learn terms here. Edit: That box guitar is pretty cool too R.
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10-04-2009, 01:55 PM	#11
MartinH Member [22%] MBTI: ENFP Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 904	When you mention the computer - are you aiming to record onto it? You'll need software, etc. there too. Electrics don't generally fall apart, they're pretty simple devices - my son found it much easier to play when he moved from acoustic to electric. I have the PocketPod pictured above, and it's pretty cool, it has lots of effects. There's a smaller cheaper one now too, without any display - I'd have a look at both and see what you like. For starter amps, I wouldn't rule out battery powered ones - my daughter has the Orange Micro Crush, and for tone and volume considering it's battery powered, it's awesome. Heavy too, and has a tuner built it. I started with a Squier Strat, and I'm on my second guitar, an Ibanez RG, whcih I'd definitely recommend for learning on, so I'm going with all the people above who said "used Ibanez"... Ibanez RG or GRG To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Line6 PocketPod To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Orange Micro Crush To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. And you're done!
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10-04-2009, 04:06 PM	#13
tp6626 Core Member [108%] MBTI: iNTj Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,338	You don't need an amp to use that pocket pod, nope. However, if you did go the acoustic route, you wouldn't be able to use the pod unless the acoustic is hooked up to it in some way. Two options there: 1. Buy a standard acoustic guitar, and an acoustic pickup. 2. Buy an electro-acoustic guitar. Now, if you're aiming to play acoustic first, that probably is sligtly more difficult, for the reasons hackerX already stated. The fingerboards are often larger too, requiring more stretches and force to hold notes down. But then that would make a transition to electric easier later on. I have a bottom range Tanglewood acoustic that I got brand new for £145 with a hard case. Bargain! Another thing if you're going acoustic, is that they often come out sounding 'thick' / 'fuzzy' when you amplify them or apply effects. You might just get muddy sounds trying to play audioslave stuff, for example, and it won't be too impressive. An electro acoustic is slightly better for that, but still not ideal. It's not very typical to distort an acoustic at all really, though might be quite novel, I don't know. If you have a good computer, something like Cubase is good for recording, and there are loads of downloadable effects processors. If you get a good (professional) sound card, it would even be able to process a few effects in real time. I have an M-Audio Audiophile 2496, which has extremely low latency even with 2 or 3 effects running. It's the reverbs that are computationally expensive though, in term of creating latency.
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10-04-2009, 04:59 PM	#15
alrightgame Member [20%] MBTI: IXTJ Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 801	I'll have to go to a store and check these out. I have very short fingers, but my arms are rather long, so I'll need to make sure they fit. I'll go with the Pocketpod because it is cheaper, and I live in an apartment. If I'm ever playing with people, they will most likely already have the equipment available to jam with, and I don't want to spend too much just in case I do decide I really don't have time to play. I plan on putting 1/2 hour to an hour a day into playing. I've decided on electric on what you guys have told me, and most likely a low-end Korean made Ibanez so it lasts. What equipment should I pick up with the guitar (what kind of excess cord, picks, thimbles, tweak tools, and repair kits)? I actually started out playing the drums and was never able to coordinate my feet into playing, but I did have the timing down in my arms and fingers, so it made me think of the guitar. If I trained myself to learn on a practice pad, I think I can learn a guitar with crappy sound. I am rarely driven by the sound of the equipment, more of the technique in the playing. I want something that is built to last, is great for beginner's, and is quiet around the neighbors, so all in all, I like the idea of spending another 100-200 more to make sure this happens. I'll go with the POD and an Ibanez/xxx/xxx that will fit my body and not fall apart on me as these meet my criteria. Thanks for the information guys.
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10-04-2009, 10:13 PM	#20
daydreamer Veteran Member [66%] MBTI: xntx Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,644	this is exactly like my baby. oh the 80s.... To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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10-04-2009, 10:48 PM	#21
alrightgame Member [20%] MBTI: IXTJ Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 801	How does a packaged deal To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. this sound (granted, I'll still need to try before I buy, but it seems like an excellent little package)?
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10-04-2009, 10:57 PM	#22
HackerX Core Member [166%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 6,668	Like I said, I can't stand the GRG's, the necks on them just don't suit me. And they are the low end of things. When it comes to comparing the different companies packages, the Ibanez ones win hands down (without a doubt, the squire, LTD and epiphone versions aren't much better than glorified firewood), but they don't compare to stepping up a couple of price points and getting something better.
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10-05-2009, 08:51 AM	#23
Conservationist Member [06%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 252	Most package deals are ripoffs. After all, they're bigger moneymakers for the company than selling the parts separately. Ponder, ponder.
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10-05-2009, 09:13 AM	#24
themuzicman Core Member [284%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,387	A fairly good local musician once describe a beginner guitar as a "beginning of the end" guitar. He suggested getting a better grade used guitar (referb from a guitar store), and forget the effects until you've mastered the basics. I got mine (can't for the life of me remember what it was... it is white and electric) for $120 (it was 6 or 7 years old, but in great shape), and best of all it tends to stay in tune (I guess this is the major issue with beginner guitars). I used headphones through my self-study program, and then someone bought me some effects for Christmas.
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