[AgentofGaming]

Is the traffic jam too common an occurrence in North America?


To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Long commutes may be ruining our health, but time and convenience keep us behind the wheel

Traffic congestion is making us sick. Once the symbol of almighty freedom, the typical car ride has become the antithesis of the easy rider dream: packed like lemmings into shiny metal boxes, to borrow a line from the Police, sitting powerless and hemmed in by thousands of similarly disgruntled lemmings with rising blood pressures. Numerous studies show long commutes, and car commuting in particular, can be harmful to your health, both mental and physical. Drivers suffer from higher blood pressure, anxiety, lack of sleep, back pain and joint stiffness. And then there's the loss of time that steals from family and social hours, and the ability to do something better than to sit in traffic. Yet despite ill health, genuine concerns about climate change and the impotent rage spawned by traffic jam hell, Canadians remain resolutely tied to their vehicles--on average, 82 per cent still use them as their main means of conveyance to work (although public-transit usage is higher for those living in urban centres), a number that hasn't changed for at least 17 years....

This article examines what happens when our society loves our cars too much and the consequences of it despite the possible damage to physical and mental health by being in traffic jams. Clearly at least where I live it is a situation that will not improve, due to lack of incentive to ride mass transit, increasing population and urban sprawl. Heavy traffic it is a modern problem and usually without a solution in most places.

[mmw]

Most people tend to ignore one issue concerning environmental/social issues...overpopulation. We continue to allow the worlds population to grow at an exponential rate while ignoring what Thomas Malthus observed in the 18th-19th centuries. This hellish congestion you speak of is one of many symptoms.

[Causa Mortis]

In the UK, they're charging people for being on the road at peak times in very high traffic areas. I think it goes as high as ~$20 for being on the road during rush hour in downtown London. Guess what? A lot of people find they'd rather keep their 20 bucks and take an extra 15 minutes to ride the subway, and traffic is not a problem anymore.

Traffic is a problem of the tragedy of the commons. If you apply the notion that prices are used to distribute scarce resources, then you remove the commons problem.

I'm not saying I agree with it or think it should be implemented here, but its an approach that merits consideration.

[fatkattykat]

I live in a large city where people are dependent on their cars, plus the mass transit system does not go out into major suburban areas. The commute where I live is one of the most hellish in the country. I definitely agree with the OP's comments about traffic having an effect mentally. I find driving in congested areas incredibly stressful.

[Vagrant]

	Originally Posted by mmw To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Most people tend to ignore one issue concerning environmental/social issues...overpopulation. We continue to allow the worlds population to grow at an exponential rate while ignoring what Thomas Malthus observed in the 18th-19th centuries. This hellish congestion you speak of is one of many symptoms.

There's not much you can do to prevent overpopulation. It's a statistical certainty for any population not headed to extinction. Plus, good luck putting limitations on Africa's population growth -- Europe and North America are pretty much good with our population in terms of overpopulation. Ironically, the civilized nations driving these cars are not growing in population.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I do not yet own a car, but I often wish I won't eventually need one -- It's much more relaxing to longboard/bike everywhere, even if it is physically straining, it's not mentally straining. It's actually mentally pleasurable.

[brdmadgrl82]

I live in Chicago and I need a car (I only get 15miles/gal). It took me 2.5hrs to get to school one day. If I was to take trains from my house and walk 5 blocks it would have been a disaster take just as long but more stress for me because I need my car to get from one place to another. There are public trans options but it doesn't work for everyone.

I wish I could ride my bike like I did in Europe but here I do not see a choice. It is all about time! Rushing to get to work, rushing to get to school, run errands, and so on...the life is more fast paced in some parts of the US than in many other countries. American's work alot more hours per year than many Europeans...I was shocked when I moved here, quality of life is very different...stress is much higher but I feel there are more opportunities to succeed if you really want to!

[themuzicman]

I think it's funny when people point to large cities as examples of overpopulation, as though the whole world is like that.

In my home metro area, we have "traffic issues" revolving around having to sit in traffic for a whole 2 minutes, and maybe having to slow to 40MPH for another minute or two. It's horrible. *ahem* This is only a problem in large cities. Which, at least for the liberal, appears to be all that exists.

People put up with this because the large cities are where the high paying jobs are. People are willing to trade some wear an tear for a bigger paycheck.

This has nothing to do with overpopulation or with "how people love their cars." It's about money. If you want to solve this particular problem, create more office parks further out in the 'burbs, and stop allowing 100 story office buildings. Yeah, things will spread out more, and you'll need more roads, but you wont' have a million people all trying to get into a 8 square mile area every morning.

[brdmadgrl82]

Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

People put up with this because the large cities are where the high paying jobs are. People are willing to trade some wear an tear for a bigger paycheck. This has nothing to do with overpopulation or with "how people love their cars." It's about money. If you want to solve this particular problem, create more office parks further out in the 'burbs, and stop allowing 100 story office buildings. Yeah, things will spread out more, and you'll need more roads, but you wont' have a million people all trying to get into a 8 square mile area every morning.

I agree that it has to do with jobs...not always about high paying jobs...in the current times people are happy with ANY job and it it always difficult to find something closer to home. I do know there are some companies that higher local...I think more places should hire local there would be less traffic and instead of getting home at 6:30/7pm I would get home quicker and have a better quality of life with more time to enjoy
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
....or for study. Thanks for sharing your opinion.

[IrishGuy]

Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

This has nothing to do with overpopulation or with "how people love their cars." It's about money. If you want to solve this particular problem, create more office parks further out in the 'burbs, and stop allowing 100 story office buildings. Yeah, things will spread out more, and you'll need more roads, but you wont' have a million people all trying to get into a 8 square mile area every morning.

As someone who lives in a city just like this I can attest that there is still tons of traffic. It regularly takes me 30 minutes to get to a location 8 miles away during off hours. The problem with the suburbia/business park model is that the infrastructure moves a huge volume of cars efficiently, but fails to get any single car from point A to point B very efficiently.

Also, in order to see a large reduction in commute times, one would have to live in the suburb closest to the business park where their job was at. This is not always practical as housing costs/availability and job changes often result in people having to travel from one suburb to another to get to their job, eliminating the benefit of having a business park in the suburb.

As for the same model based on other forms of transportation; I doubt that that would be an economical solution.

[themuzicman]

I think it would be better to have some intelligence surrounding proportioning commercial and residential. It's not that you must have a house near where you work, but rather that if you keep a proportional amount of housing relative to a given commercial park, people will tend to live closer to work and use local roads. This isn't an absolute, but rather a tendency.

[IrishGuy]

	Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think it would be better to have some intelligence surrounding proportioning commercial and residential. It's not that you must have a house near where you work, but rather that if you keep a proportional amount of housing relative to a given commercial park, people will tend to live closer to work and use local roads. This isn't an absolute, but rather a tendency.

I think your idea works in theory but not in practice. This idea assumes that people will buy housing according to how close it is to their work, when in practice I think most people have the tendency to choose their housing based on whether or not the house fits their tastes, is in a good neighborhood with good schools, isn't too expensive, and finally proximity to work. People have to balance the cost of the house with the cost of commuting. Houses closer to people's jobs tend to cost a lot more due to high demand. This results in people having to move from one suburb to another. I think this would negate any benefit of housing/business apportionment. I think this would just end up contributing to urban sprawl.

[RBM]

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
is one effort to rethink some of this:

is the exciting new fast growing trend in creating vibrant, livable communities. Also known as Transit Oriented Design, or TOD, it is the creation of compact, walkable communities centered around high quality train systems. This makes it possible to live a higher quality life without complete dependence on a car for mobility and survival. transit oriented development is a major solution to the serious and growing problems of peak oil and global warming by creating dense, walkable communities connected to a train line that greatly reduce the need for driving and the burning of fossil fuels.

FACTORS DRIVING THE TREND TOWARD TOD -Rapidly growing, mind-numbing traffic congestion nation-wide -Growing distaste for suburbia and fry-pit strip development -Growing desire for quality urban lifestyle -Growing desire for more walkable lifestyles away from traffic -Changes in family structures: more singles, empty-nesters, etc -Growing national support for Smart Growth -New focus of Federal policy "Traffic congestion has increased so much in virtually every metropolitan area that two-hour commutes now are routine. Attempts to alleviate the problem by constructing more highways almost always have led to more sprawl and, eventually, more congestion." -Jim Miara

[Stratego]

As a long time communter, I have personal experience to share on this topic, something that has truly been the bane of my existence for the past three years. I can't begin to tell you how much I loathe my communte and what it has done to my sanity, health and personal time.

My commute typically takes about 40 minutes both ways--and it is not because the distance is so great (26 miles) but because my work schedule for three days of the week is the typical 9-5 that every schlub in Northeast Ohio seems to be stuck with, and I inevitably run into the same traffic jams in the same spots that cause traffic to slow to a crawl, on a good day; a meditative trickle on the bad days; and a total stop on the worst days.

(I have two evenings a week, typically 1-9pm, but even some evening commutes home can be a bitch if there's a football game or something going on downtown).

I've witnessed (after the fact, most of the time, in the form of mangled wrecks) an average of 6 accidents a year, two confirmed deaths this year alone (twice I've seen paramedics loading a body wrapped in white sheet into a ambulance) and can't help but notice how many roadside memorials keep popping up along the side of the highway.

If that isn't depressing enough, people are idiots. They will switch lanes without popping on the turn signal, or hit their brakes and suddenly slow for no discernable reason, causing everyone to slam on their brakes in turn and nearly hit one another. Some are chatting on their cellphone and swerve when not paying attention, or cross four lanes at top speed so as not to miss their exit.

Then you have compulsive tailgaters that must follow directly behind you, about 6 feet behind you, when traffic is traveling 60 mph or more, which is the very height of stupidity because if you have to stop suddenly you and the person in front of you are toast. And there's always the chance that someone will stop suddenly (see next paragraph). I've had people stalk me like a psycho when it comes to tailgating, and I have to admit that I've been just as stupid by deliberately slowing down to the absolute minimum (45) to drive them nuts and make them pull ahead of me. Morons.

I've had metal, wood, dirt, tree limbs, furniture, and garbage fly at my windshield that have come loose from the back of a truck transporting them (so I never get behind a commercial truck of any kind anymore). I've seen whitetail deer and other animals pulverized by oncoming traffic, and people deliberately running through puddles to "splash" pedestrians stranded and waiting for help in the emergency lanes.

I never have any time for anything else during the week because I get home so late. And even if I have time to go out somewhere, I don't want to because I hate being in my car. I used to love to drive, and now I hate it. I try to use the time I'm stuck in traffic for good things; listen to an audiobook, learn japanese, plot out my ideas for novels, and that helps, but it doesn't take away the massive suck that is a 40 minute communte (both ways) to work.

[Warrior]

I live in a decent sized mid-western city where the average commute time is a little under 20 minutes. I couldn't use public transportation for health reasons with any regularity anyway, but the issue I would have is that it takes a LOT longer than 20 minutes to get anywhere using public transportation and when you get off, you are usually still a 20 minute walk from wherever you need to be. I know this isn't typical everywhere, but I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all model for what we should ahve for public transportation.

[SeaCzar]

There are more registered vehicles in the United States than there are licenced individuals to drive them. A lot of people I know have an extra car for convenience, just in case their vehicle is in the shop or otherwise unavailable. I am guilty of this myself.

I have less than a 10 minute commute, so I am really spoiled. And Stratego is right about a lot of people not knowing how to drive. If they cleared the roads of those who should not be on them, the traffic problems would be solved.

[AgentofGaming]

Although bad drivers are annoying, I don't think that necessarily causes traffic problems on a regular basis. There is a certain capacity for cars on the road, and I mean at a red light a section between two intersections can only hold so many cars.

Other things I always wonder are how we could use energy so atrociously accelerating and decelerating all the time and emitting carbon dioxide while we wait in traffic jams or why all cars usually have one person in them. To me it's all glaring inefficiency.

Most cities were not planned and had a lack of foresight, not all things are in central locations, which makes mass transit difficult. In the unplanned case the flexibility a car has is just too convenient... like say when you have to haul a desktop home or go somewhere the transit line doesn't service well.

[IrishGuy]

Originally Posted by AgentofGaming To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Although bad drivers are annoying, I don't think that necessarily causes traffic problems on a regular basis. There is a certain capacity for cars on the road, and I mean at a red light a section between two intersections can only hold so many cars. Other things I always wonder are how we could use energy so atrociously accelerating and decelerating all the time and emitting carbon dioxide while we wait in traffic jams or why all cars usually have one person in them. To me it's all glaring inefficiency. Most cities were not planned and had a lack of foresight, not all things are in central locations, which makes mass transit difficult. In the unplanned case the flexibility a car has is just too convenient... like say when you have to haul a desktop home or go somewhere the transit line doesn't service well.

I think you're right that bad drivers cannot create that much traffic on city streets but I think it is a different story on highways where traffic is only impeded by traffic (ignoring construction etc). Here when a driver swerves between lanes and drives aggressively other drivers must slow down or take defensive action. I think this creates a traffic domino effect. Thus a few poor drivers can cause a lot of traffic.

Yes, I agree that the way we transport ourselves is horrendously inefficient. Especially since a conventional combustion engine can only operate at a maximum efficiency of about 40% due to the laws of physics.

I wish we had more roundabouts here. Once people learn to use them they tend to increase traffic efficiency dramatically on smaller streets (1-3 lanes on each side).

[AgentofGaming]

Originally Posted by IrishGuy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think you're right that bad drivers cannot create that much traffic on city streets but I think it is a different story on highways where traffic is only impeded by traffic (ignoring construction etc). Here when a driver swerves between lanes and drives aggressively other drivers must slow down or take defensive action. I think this creates a traffic domino effect. Thus a few poor drivers can cause a lot of traffic.

I haven't been on the highway enough to see people drive that aggressively, though when someone in front merges it certainly slows the whole lane down.

Sometimes I see artificial traffic jams, like on roads where two drivers on two lanes decide to drive 10km under the speed limit or when a stretch of road has intersections too close to each other and aren't synchronized. I often also wonder what the rationale is behind bus stops that are a 1 minute walk away from each other.

Roundabouts seem odd for North America, wouldn't one need to merge every time they entered one?

[mofo]

I read this article a long time ago and it startled me. Something to compound the issue:


To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


There's also a 'real' paper written on the topic for those who need some proof:


To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[IrishGuy]

Originally Posted by AgentofGaming To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I haven't been on the highway enough to see people drive that aggressively, though when someone in front merges it certainly slows the whole lane down. Sometimes I see artificial traffic jams, like on roads where two drivers on two lanes decide to drive 10km under the speed limit or when a stretch of road has intersections too close to each other and aren't synchronized. I often also wonder what the rationale is behind bus stops that are a 1 minute walk away from each other. Roundabouts seem odd for North America, wouldn't one need to merge every time they entered one?

Yes, you have to yield to traffic, but the difference is that you do not have to stop. You only slow down. Traditional traffic lights require that someone be stopped at all times. Also, left hand turns add to the amount of time that it takes to move a car through the intersection (more time=more cars accumulate=more traffic). The basic principle of a roundabout is to keep everyone in all directions moving constantly. Obviously, they can be limited as the bigger the roundabout gets the less efficient it gets (people changing lanes etc, sheer size of the roundabout) and if there is so much traffic that everyone has to stop anyways.

As for the bus stops, I know what you mean. More stops just takes more time.

In response to Mofo: I have also seen studies like these ones. It's definitely a health concern. I'm not sure how to reduce it aside from putting fewer tires to the road and possibly fines on those who drive hazardously.

[pip]

The biggest single factor causing overcrowded roads is lack of other options.
Public transport is almost entirely worthless and VASTLY overpriced for the limited (and sometimes even non-existant) service provided.

Personally, I would prefer not to have a car at all because it's a pain in the behind having to jump through all the silly hoops owning one entails.
It's just that the hoops presented by other transport options are more of a hassle.

My commute:
Approx 20 mi
Walking takes roughly 4-5 hours. (done it once and it's never happening again
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
)
Cycling takes about 90 mins - if I didn't have to work at the end of it and then cycle uphill all the way at the end of the day I might consider it *if* I had a bike...
Bus takes a bit over 90 mins with one change, but is frequently late and sometimes doesn't run at all.
Train takes roughly an hour not including the 2 mile walk at either end or the waiting for connecting services (that frequently miss each other), which can push the total time well over 3 hours.
The car takes half an hour.

Private vehicles are a combination of convenience, speed and reliability which any other options as yet can't even touch.
If only it were not the case.

[DewFuel]

Originally Posted by IrishGuy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think you're right that bad drivers cannot create that much traffic on city streets but I think it is a different story on highways where traffic is only impeded by traffic (ignoring construction etc). Here when a driver swerves between lanes and drives aggressively other drivers must slow down or take defensive action. I think this creates a traffic domino effect. Thus a few poor drivers can cause a lot of traffic. Yes, I agree that the way we transport ourselves is horrendously inefficient. Especially since a conventional combustion engine can only operate at a maximum efficiency of about 40% due to the laws of physics. I wish we had more roundabouts here. Once people learn to use them they tend to increase traffic efficiency dramatically on smaller streets (1-3 lanes on each side).

Yeah, nothing much you can do with city / suburban traffic, but highway traffic is entirely people driving too aggressively. A few bad drivers can cause a huge congestion (and there are many more than a few bad drivers), and on the converse, a few good drivers can reduce the jam quite a bit. Patience is a virtue I suppose.


To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


thats an interesting link that delves into the topic. I tried it out for a few months when I was driving to and from Chicago, and it works wonders.