[MirrorMirror]

I've read a post in the archives entitled "INTJ Females" and would like to start a new thread around the same topic.

I wanted to know if anyone has had a similar experience living as an INTJ woman. I have difficulty relating and being friends with other women because I find most of their conversation to be frivolous and pointless. I don't really like to make conversation unless there's a reason. I've also found that many people bore me. I've tried to analyze whether this is because I'm arrogant or whatever. Has anyone had a similar experience?

People have thought I'm a lesbian many times throughout my life(I'm not). I just don't feel the need for male attention in order to feel secure about myself. I also am hardly impressed with anyone to the extent that I feel the need to pursue a relationship with them. Why waste my time?

And yes, I have thought many times how much easier it'd be to be a man. It just seems so much simpler. Like men have a brotherhood. I find relationships with women rather difficult with the emotionality and the competition between them. I'm heterosexual so I can't really be friends with men (it would turn into something else and they find me physically attractive[toot, toot]) and I don't really relate to other women that well, so the result is that most of the time I'm in No Man's Land. I've often wished I could be friends with men, but the confines of my sex does not allow this (sigh)...

[Samoan Corleone]

I'm an INTJ male, but I remember a girl in my class at high school who was definitely another INTJ (I never saw her get tested, but it was obvious, considering her mannerisms and such). She was quiet, intelligent, but was frank and bold when she needed to be; pretty harmless overall. For some reason, I'd hear the other girls bitching and backstabbing her behind her back. They said she was stuck up and full of herself. No doubt girls are better at reading other girls than I am, but these assumptions never made sense to me. I also read that old thread back when it was up, so I can see this is a common problem for INTJ females. If you're quiet, people won't know what to make of you so they'll make assumptions.

[Groovywest]

Arghhhhh. I get this all the time. I don't speak unless I have something to say and people make up all kinds of ideas about me because I am just not the blathering on type. It has been a struggle to make small talk. My friends/acquaintances do think I am weird and lesbian. I like men...alot. I just don't get the wholde dating ritual thing. It's like I am so smart in so many areas and so not smart when it comes to men.

[AnnaKatherine]

I normally don't get along with women because they expect me to be into shopping, boy talk, & the like, but I never have an interest in it. I also don't get along with most because I tend to be very blunt instead of telling them what they want to here, so a lot of times I get labeled as bitch. My problem with making friends is I fail at social niceties & "girl code", so unless some one is interesting or starts the conversation with something completely off the wall there tends to be awkward silences which makes people think I'm either stuck up or just weird.

[HmjG]

	Originally Posted by MirrorMirror To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I have difficulty relating and being friends with other women because I find most of their conversation to be frivolous and pointless.

I too can find some women's conversation frivolous and pointless. But, I've also found this true of men. Because I am in law enforcement, ninety percent of the people I work and spend time with are of the male variety, and let me tell you that their conversations can be completely pointless and immersed with a profound amount of testosterone driven bullsh*t. Women will talk makeup, men will talk football. Women will talk babies, men will talk porn. Small talk definitely doesn't discriminate by gender. As a result, I just find myself ignoring such conversation and walking away to find something less boring to do. If this means I got to play by myself, oh well.

	Originally Posted by MirrorMirror To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	People have thought I'm a lesbian many times throughout my life(I'm not). I just don't feel the need for male attention in order to feel secure about myself. I also am hardly impressed with anyone to the extent that I feel the need to pursue a relationship with them. Why waste my time?

While I've never had people imply to my face I was a lesbian, I have had them outright say I was a prudish, cold b*tch. I feel, like you, that this is probably due to how disinclined I am to seek out male attention to prop up my self esteem.

	Originally Posted by MirrorMirror To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And yes, I have thought many times how much easier it'd be to be a man. It just seems so much simpler. Like men have a brotherhood. I find relationships with women rather difficult with the emotionality and the competition between them.)

I've never wanted to be a man, despite how inclined I am to pursue male dominated fields (military, weapons training, mixed martial arts, etc). Though men do have a brotherhood (particularly in the aforementioned fields), their relationships aren't without a fair share of backstabbing, gossiping, competition, and emotionality. I've witnessed it. Men can be incredibly emotional, but rather than crying, they get physical and bloody a lip. They are also incredibly competitive with each other.

	Originally Posted by MirrorMirror To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'm heterosexual so I can't really be friends with men (it would turn into something else and they find me physically attractive[toot, toot]) and I don't really relate to other women that well, so the result is that most of the time I'm in No Man's Land. I've often wished I could be friends with men, but the confines of my sex does not allow this (sigh)...

As I am also heterosexual, I find it difficult to be close friends with men. You can be partners and teammates, but rarely close friends (and then only with the married or taken ones that are very faithful to their significant other). My best friends are all women. They are the only ones with which I can open up and have intimate conversation. The single men view such conversations as a come on, and I try to avoid such intimacy with the married and taken men out of respect for their significant other. I usually just wait and find a woman that I relate well to that isn't inclined towards small talk and is secure enough in herself to not view me as "competition", as you aptly put it (i.e. I wait for quality).

[liquidzilla]

I understand this. I've been called a lesbian, I don't get on well with women (most of my main friends are men), small talk, especially with women, is tough and boring.
The lesbian thing I turned into a joke so it's never used seriously anymore (just go along with it in a jokey way then people don't use it in a cruel way). I put up with other women and try my best to talk with them, but I find the only way to make it interesting is to change the subject to something I like. Sadly, it's true that my male friends have at one time or another tried to go out with me, best thing to do is let them know you aren't into relationships if you don't want one early on (one of them was especially persistent though, which was a pain).
I am heterosexual (I'm very sure), and have had relationships before, but I too don't really understand the appeal of trying to get the attention of men and the rituals of relationships bother me (they don't consider that the woman might like time alone or have work she wants to do).

[karenann33]

I've been told I'm cold, intimidating, unapproachable and I'm sure a whole set of other horrible words by other women. This told to me after they got to know me and found out that it was all wrong. I'm actually quite nice and funny once you get to know me.

I've never been accused of being a lesbian because I've always been in some kind of relationship with men and now of course I'm married.

For me it's been easier to make girl friends since I had kids because now I have something to talk about. Talking about what brand of purse or shoes you got makes me cringe. LOL!!

[Archaic Smile]

Yep. I've been slapped with many of the same labels, too. And over the years I've known only a handful of women who actually got me and didn't puzzle over why I wasn't a little more open and emotional and less cautious and blunt.

[jimnorris]

I must confess, mirrormirror, that I have not known any INTJ women. The closest is one of my sisters who is an INFP. I can see, however, why a lot of men and women might be put off a little. If you are like me you probably tend to overwhelm them a little with your intensity. I've had plenty of people think I was perpetually mad when I'm really just intense. As to friends, most of mine are women which actually helps me to stay connected with my emotions as I don't tend to show much at all in that area. I don't let anyone define my relationships but me and my friends. If people have a problem with me having mostly female best friends then tough, they'll get over it. And I don't cross any boundaries. I would never dishonor my female friends by such stupidity. Leave that to another personality type:D There are men who can honor and value your female-ness with all integrity and faith. Sorry to be so chatty....saying good bye now
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[Indubitably]

Who says it has to turn into something else? I maintain very close platonic relationships with many women who find me attractive, and quite a few of them I find attractive myself. There really isn't any trick to it, you just have to make sure that everyone is honest about it; you have to both be able to say, "yeah, sure, I'm human, I have those kind of feelings towards you from time to time, but that isn't the kind of relationship I want with you right now", and let it go. If you aren't honest with yourself, or with your friend, then yes, it can become an issue, but discarding a possible friendship just because there is some unwritten rule that it will get screwed up, is foolish at best. Not to mention that you can't make an omlet without breaking some eggs, some times things will eventually go bad, it happens, but you can't let it keep you from trying. Nothing is permanent, nothing is guaranteed but the fact that the whole damn universe is decaying towards greater entropy, if you live your life avoiding the things that will fall apart, you will miss life altogether.

[karenann33]

	Originally Posted by jimnorris To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I've had plenty of people think I was perpetually mad when I'm really just intense.

I hate this label. I get it even from my kids. Why does everybody think I'm mad when I'm not? It's kind of annoying. Just because I'm quiet without a smile plastered on my face does not mean I'm mad.

[vern]

First, no one, to my knowledge, has believed I am a lesbian.

Second, I really like people and when I am not zoned out in my head, talk to the easily.

Third, I get along wonderfully with men.

My dearest friends are men, and although I do not have many close friends, the few I have are the best and I have had long term relationships with them, twenty years at least. They are my brothers, and they treat me with the same respect and consideration they do to each other.

Were they, or are they attracted to me? Yes, likely but nonetheless we enjoy our friendships and respect each other enough not to press that. I have been through thick and thin with them, I trust them explicitly and they feel the same for me.

I spoke to one of them on the phone last week, he told me at least three times how much he loved me in front of his wife and then I spoke to her...its all good! You have to wade through lots of people to meet the ones who you are supposed to be with.

You have to use your intj confidence, it attracts people, and have a positive attitude. I can handle group situation's but they are draining, one on one I am the best, you can learn a lot about someone on a walk and even if their, (the men's) intention's are motivated by their sexual side, you can easily turn that another direction...many if not most men are decent and to connect you have to look past all the stereotypes and find the human inside. People are many things but they are far from boring...

[RedIrish]

I have more men friends that women. It's not necessarily that their conversational topics bore me, as I think I bore them. I have a hard time finding common ground.

It does hurt however when one you thought was a friend tells you to your face that she thinks you are arrogant, cold, and uncaring.

... come to think of it, perhaps I'll go hang out and watch football and drink beer, at least I know where I stand...

[hutbug]

I liked HmjG's post a lot, I've always suspected that men's talk is just as superficial and women's. Of course, superficial is a perception - I really enjoy talking about anything from astronomy to my favorite TV shows, so I have no business labeling anyone else's areas of interest!
I have a problem with the amount of emotional energy required to be a part of a group of women. I seem to tire easily in groups of people, but especially women because they seem more intensely tuned into each other than men. There is definitely a 'girl code' of some sort, and somehow I don't quite measure up. So I never really feel 'good enough'. I'm in the quandary of wanting to be liked and accepted, but not wanting to put out the effort required. It seems like what I would have to do is smile incessantly and memorize every factoid about every one of their lives and hug and gush a lot. It tires me out just thinking about it!!

[Musing]

I too don't think I've ever been called a lesbian but yes to the cold, uncaring, bitch, mean, intimidating, intense, blah, blah, blah. Unless, of course, I can do something they need. Then at least the gossip doesn't get back to me right away. This is worse with women but doesn't exclude men. Especially men who can't get me fawning over them with pathetic attempts.

I can mimic pretty damn well so if I really need to get something done, I'll play the stupid game for as long as I need to.

I just spent a day with another INTJ female and that was such a nice change of pace. Will be doing that more often.

[Brittle]

This is what I love (and miss) so much about this forum - there are so many rich and diverse topics of conversation which I just couldn't talk to most other people about. It seems if it's not celebrities, babies, or sport, most people just aren't that interested.

So as an INTJ chick, yes, it's been difficult to connect with other women in general - something I was only just talking to my SO about the other day. Having been in my "new" town for 2 years now, I can't say I've really made any real friends. Most of the women I've met my age are all having babies or have young children and it seems to consume them. It's also something I really struggle with - I'm really not into kids!

In general, I've always connected much better with men (although I certainly agree with HmjG's comments about the lack of depth to some of their conversations too... I remember being at a BBQ where I had to leave the group of women who were all talking about childbirth and placentas and things that I really didn't need to hear about - so I headed over to chat with the guys, thinking it couldn't get worse, and turns out they were all engaged in coversations about pretty much the same part of a woman's anatomy, only this involved things going in, rather than coming out..!!! Needless to say I gave up and went home!). Anyhoo, I think being able to hit it off with the guys has always caused a bit of jealousy with the other women, which hasn't helped.

As far as the lesbian thing, well I had one stalking me for a couple of years - does that count? Funny thing is, while half the stories painted me a lesbian, the other half painted me as a rampant slut!! For someone who really doesn't connect with a lot of people, seems I don't do so bad after all
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And if I had a dollar for everytime I was called a snob, I'd be wearing some spanky new shoes (yes! I love shoes... to wear, not as a topic of conversation!). Apparently numerous people have passed me in the street and said "HI" but I've been so immersed in my own thoughts that I've simply not noticed them.

I guess I'm lucky I have a handful of people who truly do understand me and also enjoy in-depth conversations about obscure topics. They really do help keep me sane!

[elsdfr]

I may or may not know someone who might have been watching... Americas Next Top Model, this person happens to think the girl with lots of curly read hair may be... an INTJ female, her name is Nicole. Apparently this can be guessed from the first episode.

[Tough Love]

Its so weird reading these posts. I am so sexist against my own sex. I know its irrational and stupid, but i cant help but remember the hurt and pain of growing up and feeling like im nothing because of the way other girls made me feel. I went to an all girl school and due to my serious nature and good marks, i feel i was very misunderstood. There were incidences as a child, such as where the whole class was invited to a birthday party, and i was told in no uncertain terms that i wasnt wanted there, or the time my sunday school class bought me a ''present'' ( a tampon in wrapping paper, i was about 8). Both times i broke down in tears and started yelling 'I hate you, i hate you'.
I swear i wouldve taken a thousand beatings over the bitchy bullying of girls.
These experiences i believe ruined my trust and 'sisterhood' with women. I find i can relate to men alot better than women. That doesnt mean i can relate to a man, as a man, but i find they are alot more upfront and honest about what their feelings towards you are.

[Ceres]

I find it boring sitting in a group of women who are talking about shopping and boys.
I rarely engage in these conversations, simply sitting on the sidelines thinking about topics that interest me. I can see how people would perceive me as being a snob in these situations, as I generally give blunt, emotionless answers to any questions about these superficial topics.

On topics that interest me I actually become quite extroverted. I really enjoy talking to people about my favourite tv shows, my family, and my studies. But I rarely get to this point with females, and when I achieve it with males they assume that I am interested in dating them.

[vern]

There seems to be, for the most part, a consensus as to how we are and how we interact or more appropriately do not interact with the rest of the population. So are we misogynists? Although we cannot be by definition but honestly I believe that I am at times, when I meet a man who is I understand them a lot better than I understand most women. Even though I know it is not right that is how I feel during and after interactions with women, sometimes, with the rare few it is all I can do not to punch them in the mouth to stop their bitchy, game playing, yapping crap.

Maybe I should go start one of those internet dating profiles, heterosexual....no wait they probably don't use that word, female straight, misogynist, alpha male, sarcastic and cold ready to rock your world baby, between projects and books that is. Do you think I would get any interest, hope not, I can't stand dating!

[schwartzie]

It gets better in grad school and otj in a white collar job. Grown up women do not sit around talking about shopping. We talk about the design elements of the shopping center we are building. Or in which court we will file the lawsuit against the architect. Or where to take the IPO to. All in all, it gets lots better; you will be surrounded by women more like yourself, and the only hard part is to find one another, stop competing and build cooperative, trusting relationships despite a competitive environment.

haha Vern is funny... (*pats bench next to her -- come sit by me*)

There have been lots of threads on how to find compatible sexual partners. I wonder where intj women go to find friends. Personally, my closest women friends over time have all been bright xNxxs. (same typology as male friends/lovers...)

surely its not at the shoe shops...
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[Tough Love]

	Originally Posted by Ceres To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	On topics that interest me I actually become quite extroverted. I really enjoy talking to people about my favourite tv shows, my family, and my studies. But I rarely get to this point with females, and when I achieve it with males they assume that I am interested in dating them.

Thats the problem, it isnt that women dont have these conversations, just that there is so much bullshit to sift through before.

[Zhen]

lol, my Life issue to a T...and let me tell you I have REALLY TRIED to study, understand and relate to women...

apart from the lack of common interests and behaviours we INTJ females have with the average woman, I noticed most women typically tend to not like confident females...at the end of the day I think it's only those(most) that lack self esteem who have a problem with us. I found certain types of women are much easier than others but by and large men have always been much more natural and so much less of an EFFORT for me personally, but then again I would also describe myself as very much a tomboy my whole life. Men definitely make better friends esp for loyalty and lack of bitchy element...until you get to a certain age and then it starts to get complicated :P I totally understand when you say "NO MAN'S LAND" :P oh well at least that makes a few of us...we should start a club
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Originally Posted by MirrorMirror To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I've read a post in the archives entitled "INTJ Females" and would like to start a new thread around the same topic. I wanted to know if anyone has had a similar experience living as an INTJ woman. I have difficulty relating and being friends with other women because I find most of their conversation to be frivolous and pointless. I don't really like to make conversation unless there's a reason. I've also found that many people bore me. I've tried to analyze whether this is because I'm arrogant or whatever. Has anyone had a similar experience? People have thought I'm a lesbian many times throughout my life(I'm not). I just don't feel the need for male attention in order to feel secure about myself. I also am hardly impressed with anyone to the extent that I feel the need to pursue a relationship with them. Why waste my time? And yes, I have thought many times how much easier it'd be to be a man. It just seems so much simpler. Like men have a brotherhood. I find relationships with women rather difficult with the emotionality and the competition between them. I'm heterosexual so I can't really be friends with men (it would turn into something else and they find me physically attractive[toot, toot]) and I don't really relate to other women that well, so the result is that most of the time I'm in No Man's Land. I've often wished I could be friends with men, but the confines of my sex does not allow this (sigh)...

[schwartzie]

so... do any of us have xntx sisters? (sibs) ... and care to describe those relationships?
mine is an isfj and we aren't as close as we would like to be.... there is a big gulf of preference to reach over....

[SelfMadeBum]

I have two ENFJ girlfriends and we get along like sisters. When they go off on their hair-clothes-facebook-boys babble, I simply tune out. They understand.