[ENFP is curious]

Originally Posted by Lucid To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Why is it his responsibility to make sure that you aren't offended? I think it's your responsibility to make sure that you don't ask a question to which you don't want to know the answer. It doesn't sound like you didn't want an answer, but it may have come off that way to him at the time. I will say something whether it offends people or not (if they ask... and sometimes even if they don't). I think you have to determine whether he meant it as a warning about what he was abut to say or a reason why he wasn't going to tell you. If his answer is that it was the former then your storming out of the room was jumping to the conclusion that he was just to scared of your reaction to tell you. Which would then give him reason to be wary about telling you things you might not want to hear. Personally, I would take it as a sign that you weren't able to hear negative things without reacting emotionally and flying off the handle. You've probably noticed that you've gotten a variety of responses on this thread and that they're all pretty different from one another. I think your best bet is to ask your INTJ guy this question and see what he says.

mmmm...if he had said 'i do want to date other people, i don't want to be monogamous with you', fine. straight answer. i can't argue with it and wouldn't have been upset. i want what i want. he wants what he wants. either we're on the same page or we're not.

i do think he has a responsibility to be upfront with me, as i've been with him. again, i'm not asking for anything but clarity and i'm not asking questions that will cause him to bear his soul.

[Lucid]

Originally Posted by ENFP is curious To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

mmmm...if he had said 'i do want to date other people, i don't want to be monogamous with you', fine. straight answer. i can't argue with it and wouldn't have been upset. i want what i want. he wants what he wants. either we're on the same page or we're not. i do think he has a responsibility to be upfront with me, as i've been with him. again, i'm not asking for anything but clarity and i'm not asking questions that will cause him to bear his soul.

I agree and didn't mean to make you feel like you should have to defend your reasons for asking him. Maybe I'm confused about what you want to know from him. Can you elaborate a bit? I got that he keeps talking about "emotional 3somes" (which confuses me in itself... 3somes are not emotional experiences in my opinion... or at least they shouldn't be unless you expect someone to get hurt). And that he keeps telling you that he doesn't want to see other people. I guess I'm not sure A. why the two are mutually exclusive (if they are) and B. Why you think that his informing you that you might not like the answer means he wasn't being upfront with you. (provided, of course, that he meant it as a warning prelude to an answer)

[PortInStorm]

Sometimes, although we all seem to like straightforwardness, I just like to speak through my behaviour. It seems like he's not giving you the answers you need to guage where the relationship is, and he's not completely trusting you, your responses etc. So forget all the confusion, and let your absence speak for you, or at least your emotional distance. People do what they have to to get what they want. His behaviour/response to your withdrawal will reveal his true intentions towards you. You perhaps should say first something like "I really like you, I want to be exclusive, but I'm going to give you time to figure things out. Come get me if you decide to be with me alone- I'd welcome it." If he's so reluctant to give you a response, don't pressure him for one. Say your piece then go without bitterness.

Boy, are you right right- the book "He's Just not that into you" was NOT made for the INTJ guy. Greg Behrendt.

[ENFP is curious]

Originally Posted by Lucid To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I agree and didn't mean to make you feel like you should have to defend your reasons for asking him. Maybe I'm confused about what you want to know from him. Can you elaborate a bit? I got that he keeps talking about "emotional 3somes" (which confuses me in itself... 3somes are not emotional experiences in my opinion... or at least they shouldn't be unless you expect someone to get hurt). And that he keeps telling you that he doesn't want to see other people. I guess I'm not sure A. why the two are mutually exclusive (if they are) and B. Why you think that his informing you that you might not like the answer means he wasn't being upfront with you. (provided, of course, that he meant it as a warning prelude to an answer)

hmmmm he wants a 'snuggle 3some'. he's said it's about the affection for him, not raw sex. he's said he's going thru a mid-life crisis and that's why it's on his radar now (he's certainly at that age and his bday is coming up in a few weeks to boot). he knows it'd be complicated in real life and has said it's not worth it. however, he's mentioned it so much that i believe he really wants it. perhaps it's a guy thing - i know most guys would act on a fantasy if it presented itself to them. i've told him that if he wants it to pursue it, then he should but without me in the picture as it's not something i'm interested in.

we'd talked about being exclusive before but i just wasn't convinced he was with me (how can i be when his response was 'i wouldn't mind'). i've since asked him how he sees me - a friend with benefits, something short term or a girlfriend. he answered with 'a girlfriend'. that didn't tell me if i am one of many or just one of one. i wanted to directly ask him the 'seeing others' question so i could know for sure what's going on. to me, hearing 'you'll get mad' isn't direct and it puts the focus on me unnecessarily. he thinks if i think he's seeing others i'd bolt - that's very plausible. especially because he made it clear from the start that he didn't like me seeing others. so what am i do to? say, 'ok go along and do your thing while i sit back and don't see anyone else?'

[Antares]

Originally Posted by ENFP is curious To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

you're suggesting i act as/be someone i'm not. i live through my emotions and intuition, which is why in part he's drawn to me. i'm not always right and neither is he, but that's part of being human. he admits he's a very closed person. fwiw i've chosen sales as a career (gratuitous groan inserted) and have a thick skin when it comes to things - i've told him, as long as i understand a situation, i can handle whatever it is. it's when i don't have information when i have a problem - assumption is a bad thing. he knows i want to be in a monogamous relationship and i've told him over and over again that if that's NOT what he wants then we should move on. but he won't do it.

Everyone is different, so I can't ask you to act like someone you're not, but types aren't stone solid. Thinkers feel, and feelers think. Both of you can compromise and think from the others' perspective. Compromise is one of the ways to work out a problem, and I found that it is one of the better ways too. It's always better if you can talk about the problem without having to go away and cool off, isn't it? Neither one function (T/F) is 'right', so wouldn't it be beneficial to be able to use your less prefered function when the problem calls it? I'm not asking to change your F preference, but learn to utilise the T preference too (meaning, yes. sometimes the truths have to be faced). For me, all four preferences are quite balanced and I find it easier adjusting to different people. I can be E if I want to, S if the need arises, didn't really develope Fe yet, but can be very P too.

True, you can handle situations as long as you understand it, but I think your INTJ would like you to understand it without getting too mad at his honesty. Sure, you can get mad, and as you mentioned before, it's a part of being human, but be calm enough to talk about the problem.

[yondyr]

Threesomes are possible and durable, my menage a trois is living proof, but I don't think you're ready for that.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Originally Posted by ENFP is curious To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

well i've been the one to raise the dating others questions, not him. he's expressed the fantasy of what he calls a 'snuggle 3some' a few times but shuts it down as soon as i say no - he says he wouldn't want to do anything i don't want to do. for him, it's about the affection. the other night when we were out i asked him if he wanted to see other people and he gave me a very strong NO. i've given him every 'out' possible but he won't bite - what i can't determine is why. and yes i've read that book. problem is, it's not writtne to read signs from the typical INTJ man.

Oh.....disregard all of the above ...... then......

[JTG]

It sounds like maybe he's embarrassed about it, or he regrets upsetting you. Either way, he seems to have moved on when it comes to the "sharing with other people" issue. Most INTJs (i hope) aren't the type to lie about something like that.

I'm totally the type that won't want do something if my SO doesn't want to, so i can personally believe that he would be genuine about that.

If you've given him many outs that were as guilt-free as possible, then i don't see why he would stay with you unless he just wanted to be with you. It's possible he's just going through a very inwardly turned time for now. I do that too - alternate between semi-outgoing and completely withdrawn, haha...

[ENFP is curious]

here's kind of a typical exchange - i texted and said i've got a VERY important job interview late on thurs, was going to invite him over for dinner that night, oh well. he wrote back and said ok, good luck! i texted again and said, well how about a v-day drink instead? he wrote back and said, company XYZ can be your valentine, LOL, knock 'em dead and get that offer letter!

my assumption is that he doesn't want to see me.

[JTG]

That could go either way. I make jokes like that sometimes and feel like an ass later when i figure out i gave the wrong impression. I guess just give him some space and see if he tries to get in touch with you. If the issue of that text message comes up, just let him know you thought he was expressing disinterest.

[Lucid]

Originally Posted by ENFP is curious To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

hmmmm he wants a 'snuggle 3some'. he's said it's about the affection for him, not raw sex. he's said he's going thru a mid-life crisis and that's why it's on his radar now (he's certainly at that age and his bday is coming up in a few weeks to boot). he knows it'd be complicated in real life and has said it's not worth it. however, he's mentioned it so much that i believe he really wants it. perhaps it's a guy thing - i know most guys would act on a fantasy if it presented itself to them. i've told him that if he wants it to pursue it, then he should but without me in the picture as it's not something i'm interested in. we'd talked about being exclusive before but i just wasn't convinced he was with me (how can i be when his response was 'i wouldn't mind'). i've since asked him how he sees me - a friend with benefits, something short term or a girlfriend. he answered with 'a girlfriend'. that didn't tell me if i am one of many or just one of one. i wanted to directly ask him the 'seeing others' question so i could know for sure what's going on. to me, hearing 'you'll get mad' isn't direct and it puts the focus on me unnecessarily. he thinks if i think he's seeing others i'd bolt - that's very plausible. especially because he made it clear from the start that he didn't like me seeing others. so what am i do to? say, 'ok go along and do your thing while i sit back and don't see anyone else?'

Well no, obviously you shouldn't be expected to be ok with him seeing other people if you're not comfortable with that arrangement... and doubly so if he has a problem with you seeing other people.

He's told you that he sees you as a girlfriend and (my impression) is that he's also told you that he wants an exclusive relationship with you where both parties are monogamous. Ask yourself what you need to hear from him or what you need him to do to make you feel comfortable and secure in the situation and for you to believe that he means what he says. If you've identified what you think it would take and if you feel that you're not getting it, re-evaluate your situation. Would it help to ask him for it? If not, what are some other options as far as getting that reassurance from him?

With regard to the "snuggle 3some" (which still confuses me... but then snuggle 2somes confuse me too from an intellectual perspective... so maybe I'm not the best person to be taking advice from
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), obviously it is a persistent fantasy for him, which he has thought about (and, it seems, is still thinking about) quite a bit. If it's on his mind a lot, he's probably going to talk about it a lot. However, this doesn't necessarily mean that he sees this as something he wants to try in real life with you (or anyone). In addition, I don't think it means that he would necessarily choose an opportunity to fulfill this fantasy over the opportunity for something more meaningful with you.

Maybe this "snuggle 3some" thing comes from a desire for female affection or attention. (I'm assuming his fantasy involves himself and two girls, since that's the most common variation of the male 3some fantasy.) I remember there was a thread about your INTJ guy's OK Cupid forays where someone said that his behavior there seemed to be about getting attention from females. I thought that was rather perceptive and seemed to be likely. I think the issue is whether that need for female attention is serious or not and how much (if at all) it might affect your relationship.

With regard to the text message you describe, I'd refrain from jumping to the conclusion that he doesn't want to hang out. It seems like that's a possibility, but maybe he's making a joke. Ask him. "Does that mean you don't want to get together for v-day?" would be how I worded it... although, as I've mentioned, I may not be the person to take relationship advice from.

Not that that will stop me from giving it.
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[Meyer]

Originally Posted by ENFP is curious To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

well i've been the one to raise the dating others questions, not him. he's expressed the fantasy of what he calls a 'snuggle 3some' a few times but shuts it down as soon as i say no - he says he wouldn't want to do anything i don't want to do. for him, it's about the affection. the other night when we were out i asked him if he wanted to see other people and he gave me a very strong NO. i've given him every 'out' possible but he won't bite - what i can't determine is why. and yes i've read that book. problem is, it's not writtne to read signs from the typical INTJ man.

He's a guy. of course he wants a threesome. That is true regardless of type. I can guaruntee you this. Yougive him his threesomes a couple of times a year and you will never have to worry about him wanting to see anybody else. Types aside we are all pigs at heart. oink

[JTG]

Threesomes are dangerous to relationships except in a few situations where they work. It's not such a simple thing to "give him his threesomes a couple times a year"

[PortInStorm]

Wow, who needs slavery when you can just give your body away to your boyfriend and his threesome bed buddy? So if you don't, and your boyfriend cheats, it's your fault for not giving in?

And I'm saying this about someone who clearly does not WANT to be in a threesome, not those who have chosen it willingly.

[ENFP is curious]

	Originally Posted by 2ndtimestudent To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Wow, who needs slavery when you can just give your body away to your boyfriend and his threesome bed buddy? So if you don't, and your boyfriend cheats, it's your fault for not giving in? And I'm saying this about someone who clearly does not WANT to be in a threesome, not those who have chosen it willingly.

right- my stance on this is, it's not right for ME. i don't care what others do as long as they're not hurting themselves or others.





ENFP is curious added to this post, 4 minutes and 25 seconds later...

	Originally Posted by Lucid To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	With regard to the text message you describe, I'd refrain from jumping to the conclusion that he doesn't want to hang out. It seems like that's a possibility, but maybe he's making a joke. Ask him. "Does that mean you don't want to get together for v-day?" would be how I worded it... although, as I've mentioned, I may not be the person to take relationship advice from.

we've been doing our usual back and forth texting - no mention of tomorrow being vday. so i broke down this afternoon and said, i'll be done with my stuff by X time tomorrow. let's meet tomorrow at Y time at Z place for a drink?

i mean, i just can't get any more freaking clear than that.

and now the question is, when he KNOWS unclear answers bother me, why isn't he making the effort to answer me? i understand vday isn't everyone's cup of tea but when you're dating someone, to let it go completely without mentioning why, well that's just odd to me.

[mind_wander]

Originally Posted by Lucid To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The best advice I can give you is to say to him: "Ok, this is what I want from this relationship" and explain what you want. Then ask him, "What do you want from this relationship?" or "Where do you see this going?" The most frustrating thing about dating (to me) is being asked these cryptic, trapezoidal questions that have some kind of deeper meaning and trying to figure out what the other person wants from me so that I can just tell him if it's likely to happen or not. It would be much easier if people would just say what's on their minds.

You're right on, these are pretty good straight-up questions. Wished more people would do more of this*sigh.





mind_wander added to this post, 15 minutes and 5 seconds later...

Originally Posted by ENFP is curious To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

here's kind of a typical exchange - i texted and said i've got a VERY important job interview late on thurs, was going to invite him over for dinner that night, oh well. he wrote back and said ok, good luck! i texted again and said, well how about a v-day drink instead? he wrote back and said, company XYZ can be your valentine, LOL, knock 'em dead and get that offer letter! my assumption is that he doesn't want to see me.

Lol, interesting. Maybe this might help you see from another perspective.

ENFP: I've got a VERY important job interview late on thurs, was going to invite him over for dinner that night, oh well.

INTJ: ok, good luck! [Translation: Good Luck with your job interview!]

ENFP: well how about a v-day drink instead?

INTJ: Company XYZ can be your valentine, LOL, knock 'em dead and get that offer letter! [Translation: I can't make it, if I could I would. Maybe one or two of your friends can joined you on V-day. PS. I hope you got accepted from your job.]

Well, I'm not releasing any INTJ secrets or anything. When I first read this, these were going through my head. Just wondering in my mind, how did you missed all of that? No one forced you to be someone else, of course. Some of his comments are just pointing out, V-day is not really for me is there some other alternative way not to make it V-day. Doing other things? I think, this sounds weird, as a question.

Maybe, he's trying to say, "I really don't want to let my F side to swing out of control." But, it does not necessarily means he dislikes you. He might be afraid, once that F comes out, then have no clue how to put that F back into that deep emotional hole of his. Once it comes out, don't look back!

[ENFP is curious]

Originally Posted by mind_wander To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Well, I'm not releasing any INTJ secrets or anything. When I first read this, these were going through my head. Just wondering in my mind, how did you missed all of that? No one forced you to be someone else, of course. Some of his comments are just pointing out, V-day is not really for me is there some other alternative way not to make it V-day. Doing other things? I think, this sounds weird, as a question. Maybe, he's trying to say, "I really don't want to let my F side to swing out of control." But, it does not necessarily means he dislikes you. He might be afraid, once that F comes out, then have no clue how to put that F back into that deep emotional hole of his. Once it comes out, don't look back!

i understand where you're coming from. all i'm asking him is to meet me for our favorite drink at our favorite spot, nothing different from what we've done almost weekly for the past 8 months or so as our friendship evolved - i'm not looking for some uber romantic evening where there will be lots of warm fuzziness floating about. if he hadn't mentioned it to me weeks ago (as in, i need to make a trip to ABC store for vday!) then i wouldn't be thinking about this as much as i am.

again, it boils down to this for me - i ask a direct question with the intent of getting a direct answer. i've told him this is what i need. i'm not getting it. i don't understand why. perhaps it's time for me to move on.

[Agile]

Originally Posted by ENFP is curious To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

recently my intj and i were having a convo. i asked a very direct question and the response was, 'you'll get mad' instead of a yes or no...his focus is on whether or not i'll get upset and walk out again instead of accepting that maybe there is something else he can be doing about it...i told him i know what (and whom) i'm faced with...i don't get why the focus is on me getting upset instead of what he can try to do to minimize me getting upset. i told him when i am not totally clear on something i'll ask questions rather than work off of assumptions, that's what led me to ask him in the first place. and really, what i wanted to know...is a normal question to ask someone one has been dating for a few months.

Wow. This sounds like me talking. How many people actually put themselves in the 'objective observer' position, and then even make comparisons to actual norms...you sound like the NTJ to me, lol. Not that I know this stuff very well, but the typelogic intj description talks about how INTJ...

	Originally Posted by INTJ on typelogic.com
	Perhaps the most fundamental problem, however, is that INTJs really want people to make sense. :-) This sometimes results in a peculiar naivete', paralleling that of many Fs -- only instead of expecting inexhaustible affection and empathy from a romantic relationship, the INTJ will expect inexhaustible reasonability and directness.