What To Say - Page 2

**JohnDoe** · 09-28-2009, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by larkin
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Good lord. I'm not saying it's not possible for someone to accept a date even if they're not really interested just because they want to a sympathetic ear or a free dinner, but it's exceptionally unlikely, and just a risk everyone doing the asking will have to be willing to take. (I suppose we agree that being direct is the best way to deal with any of these scenarios, either way.) If someone did this to you, I'm sorry, but what a paranoid way to approach someone you think highly enough of to want to date.

You need to not worry about this, but at the same time exceptionally unlikely understates how often this happens.

JohnDoe added to this post, 0 minutes and 38 seconds later...

	Originally Posted by Vagrant To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The gist of what you're saying is good -- but the wording is terrible. I was already thinking of her telling her I like her, but in a one-on-one situation.

Don't do this.

**d3molitionMayne** · 09-28-2009, 11:19 AM

	Originally Posted by Vagrant To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The gist of what you're saying is good -- but the wording is terrible. I was already thinking of her telling her I like her, but in a one-on-one situation.

Well, the idea is that you need to communicate that you see her as more than just a friend and usually that requires some healthy sexual tension. Plus, the other idea is that you communicate this idea as casually as possible. Making a big deal out of it is a really good way to get turned down because the girl isn't ready for the amount of emotional stress the relationship may bring.

I will say that using the exact words I picked out for you, I have never had my advances turned down. Maybe it comes with having the right chemistry in the first place.

Really, the words themselves aren't that important as the vibe between you two. You can say anything you want to, really...

**DevLight** · 09-28-2009, 11:25 AM

Hey Vagrant, I have some ideas in this area as I've asked out girls before. Its a big post but I hope i make some sense.

1) Never actually ask someone "do you like me?". While the person may actually like you, this is rarely the case. It is usually pretty easy to estimate if a person likes you. Girls are easy to pick out. They'll hang out with you lots, they'll talk to you lots, and they'll give you attention. And this conversation (the do you like me convo) can become very very awkward and turn a growing relationship into distant aquaintances. The best relationships are the ones that are done naturally. While sometimes it is nessicary to ask someone "do you like me?", its better off if you dont.

And If your ever asking yourself "does she like me?" then she probably doesnt. Your beyond this stage so thats a good thing!

2) Never ask someone out on a "date". Instead, ask them to hang out with you. The word "date" is a word filled with tension. It sets up expectations that you two may become a couple after this date, furthermore it means that you have to be funny, outgoing, you have to win her over. Its much better to just say "Hey, me and (some of your friends that she knows if possible) are going to shoot pool/dinner, wanna come?" This way, her expectations of you being all romantic and everything are lowered, it makes it less worrysome for her which means more time for her to enjoy you!

3) Like others have pointed out, there are ways to see if she will reciprocate the feelings for you as you have for her. Like "accidentally" bumping into her. You can do this in a funny way too. Like the obvious "OOPS!" making it known that you intentionally ran into her. If she responds with a "Hey!!" and bumps you back, she trusts you and more than likely likes you.

4) If shes being playful with you (even if its just verbally) try being overly judgemental in a very sarcastic way so that its known that your joking. Like "ooo nice job" in a dumb sarcastic voice. Then if she comes back and does it to you, (thats a good thing) act all defensive "HEY!!!" and she'll laugh that she got you to react that way (you can be sure she likes you now)

5) As for date suggestions and how to come off un-needy, you can bring her out with a group of friends somewhere, or a movie date. Whats important here is that your comfortable around her in what your doing.

Movie's are only a good idea if you are confident she likes you. This way you can put your hand on her lap(or around her shoulder) or "make a move" and forward the relationship. (If she likes you she'll find this romantic)

Dinner is almost always a bad idea. I always thought it was a good idea until I went on a few dates where I included dinner. For an INTJ dinner = disaster. Why? Because theres you, the person you like, and small talk. You haven't been friends forever so theres not much to talk about. Unless you two are completely comfortable with one another, dinner will seem awkward. So I wouldn't do dinner until you become a pair ya know?

My personal favourite idea: Going out with some of your friends (shooting pool, dinner), invite her along then later on in the night break off with just her. This has worked wonders in the past because it allows for a few things

1) How the night will go largely depends on the first 10-15 minutes. If your out to dinner with her and conversation lasts 2 minutes, your in for a LONG night. But if you have 3 other friends with you conversation will almost always never end. You can talk with your buddies and crack jokes and she'll probably laugh too. This sets the mood for the night, and thats very important.

2) After establishing a good mood, you can break off with her and go do something. You'll both be in talkative moods (thanks to your friends) & be in a good mood. This is where you can make your move. You can start to compliment her, if its cold outside lend her your arm or jacket etc!

And dont worry if you mess up. I've done so many dumb things its holarious. GOOD LUCK!

**Ekagra** · 09-28-2009, 11:49 AM

Take her out to dinner & kiss her.

**Vagrant** · 09-29-2009, 05:22 PM

Hey INTJf, I have another question...

So she seems comfortable with my touching her... doesn't seem to bother her at all, and she's tried it back too.
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My problem is now... how do I move to that kiss portion? Or how do I go about asking her to be my girlfriend?
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Or whether we're dating?

Haaaaaalp

**Latro** · 09-29-2009, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by Vagrant
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Hey INTJf, I have another question...

So she seems comfortable with my touching her... doesn't seem to bother her at all, and she's tried it back too.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My problem is now... how do I move to that kiss portion? Or how do I go about asking her to be my girlfriend?
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Or whether we're dating?

Haaaaaalp

Those last two I would not suggest actually doing pretty much ever. The first one...it's cliche as crap, but you find the right moment and just do it.

As usual, metric ton of salt etc.

**mrStevens** · 09-29-2009, 06:04 PM

You look into her eyes.

She looks into yours.

You lean closer.

She leans closer.

You close your eyes.

She closes hers.

Your lips meet! Fireworks explode above you!

Then sex happens....

At least that's what they show in the movies. HTH.

larkin · 09-29-2009, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by Vagrant
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Hey INTJf, I have another question...

So she seems comfortable with my touching her... doesn't seem to bother her at all, and she's tried it back too.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My problem is now... how do I move to that kiss portion? Or how do I go about asking her to be my girlfriend?
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Or whether we're dating?

Haaaaaalp

Leap of faith. I know that's not helpful, but nothing's worse than when the person's inching closer...and closer...and, err, still not kissing you. I say this having been both the one about to be kissed, and the one trying to kiss. Invite her back to your place. Make some sort of terrible move, cheesier than you think you could possibly tolerate. If she likes you she won't care.

**mrStevens** · 09-29-2009, 06:47 PM

	Originally Posted by larkin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Leap of faith. I know that's not helpful, but nothing's worse than when the person's inching closer...and closer...and, err, still not kissing you. I say this having been both the one about to be kissed, and the one trying to kiss. Invite her back to your place. Make some sort of terrible move, cheesier than you think you could possibly tolerate. If she likes you she won't care.

+1

I've made some cheesy, awkward, doofus looking moves in my day. As long as the girl isn't some superficial bimbo you will be surprised at what won't scare her away. You should hear some of the stories my wife likes to tell our friends and family.

**Vagrant** · 09-29-2009, 06:54 PM

	Originally Posted by larkin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Leap of faith. I know that's not helpful, but nothing's worse than when the person's inching closer...and closer...and, err, still not kissing you. I say this having been both the one about to be kissed, and the one trying to kiss. Invite her back to your place. Make some sort of terrible move, cheesier than you think you could possibly tolerate. If she likes you she won't care.

Well, what kind of cheesy move?

larkin · 09-29-2009, 06:59 PM

Well, isn't this embarrassing. (for me, to cop to my terrible moves - and worse yet, share them as somehow good advice?) But okay. At your place, offer her a drink. When you hand them the drink, stand reasonably close. Take a sip, put your drink down. Put their drink down.

God, it's worse writing it than it is doing it. But it works. They get it, you get it, everyone's on the same page.

**Vagrant** · 09-29-2009, 07:00 PM

	Originally Posted by larkin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Well, isn't this embarrassing. At your place, offer her a drink. When you hand them the drink, stand reasonably close. Take a sip, put your drink down. Put their drink down. God, it's worse writing it than it is doing it. But it works. They get it, you get it, everyone's on the same page.

XD

Next step -- getting her to my place. Neither of us has a car. >.>

**SeaCzar** · 09-29-2009, 07:26 PM

Vagrant,

From what I have read, this really sounds like you are in, and is a total no-brainer. Next time you touch and touch back, pull her in and give her a good snog. You'll blow both of your minds at the same time. I'd bet on it.

**PLC** · 09-29-2009, 08:06 PM

Ok I ain't all that great in that kind of stuff but I don't think you have to directly kiss her to seal the deal. If you're in a position where you have a chance to wrap your arms around her without it being awkward or something similar. I think it would have a much better effect than a rushed kiss. You'll know right there if she's interested or not, and If she is, it won't be long before the kiss comes anyway.

I haven't dated in forever so take it with a grain of salt haha.

**GreenBulldog** · 09-29-2009, 10:47 PM

	Originally Posted by mrStevens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	+1 I've made some cheesy, awkward, doofus looking moves in my day. As long as the girl isn't some superficial bimbo you will be surprised at what won't scare her away. You should hear some of the stories my wife likes to tell our friends and family.

+2

Dude, you think way too much. Let your dick take over instead of your head.

You realize that the only thing preventing you from getting her is yourself?

So what if you made an awkward move? The worst thing that could happen is you not trying. If you get rejected, you got a straight answer and she'll probably respect you for having the balls to try.

It's win-win...Until your brain gets in the way.

**Vagrant** · 10-01-2009, 07:23 PM

Hey INTJf, an update here:

*sigh* Bad news.

So instead of being an INTP, to me it's now clear she's an ESFX. I guess her initial wariness and talk about different cultures fooled me in the beginning. Oh well, guess another one to add to the "friends" heap.

I don't mean this in a derogatory way. I just find S-types boring, ESF's particularly so.

**mrStevens** · 10-01-2009, 07:37 PM

LOL! Hmmm. This MBTI relationship filter is a new concept for me. Good to find out now I guess??

**PLC** · 10-01-2009, 07:49 PM

What happened if you don't mind telling us?

Storm · 10-01-2009, 07:53 PM

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This doesn't make sense. If you liked before, how do you not like her now? So what, her letters are different, she's the same person.

**Vagrant** · 10-01-2009, 07:54 PM

	Originally Posted by PLC To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What happened if you don't mind telling us?

Well, I don't want to reveal too many personal details lest I incriminate her.

But, as it went past the initial stage of "stranger" to friend/acquaintance, she would talk more and more about her friends and memories, mostly mundane things about them (at first I thought they were interesting because she's foreign). Then today I happened to observe her partake in the most INANE MSN conversation with a friend and it really just struck me that I was interested in who I thought she was -- not who she is.


	This doesn't make sense. If you liked before, how do you not like her now? So what, her letters are different, she's the same person.

Perception change. I perceived her mistakenly in the past for something she was not.

Storm · 10-01-2009, 08:10 PM

Type theory isn't as simple as that. Just because she likes to talk about her friends when first getting to know you and just because she engaged in a silly instant message conversation doesn't make her an ESFx.

You have to know someone really well to be able to guess their type, because type isn't apparent from outward actions, it's why people do what they do.

Don't worry about type when getting to know someone.

**Vagrant** · 10-01-2009, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by Storm
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Type theory isn't as simple as that. Just because she likes to talk about her friends when first getting to know you and just because she engaged in a silly instant message conversation doesn't make her an ESFx.

You have to know someone really well to be able to guess their type, because type isn't apparent from outward actions, it's why people do what they do.

Don't worry about type when getting to know someone.

It isn't type that bothers me -- she keeps talking about mundane things. Simply stating type is the quick and dirty way of saying it.

**JohnDoe** · 10-02-2009, 02:16 AM

	Originally Posted by Storm To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You have to know someone really well to be able to guess their type, because type isn't apparent from outward actions, it's why people do what they do.

Agree to disagree?

**PLC** · 10-02-2009, 08:25 PM

I know the feeling. Sometimes you'll put someone on a pedestal only to realize they aren't all what you've made them up to be.

Loves makes you blind they say.

**Billy Cox** · 10-02-2009, 08:57 PM

...and it's always best to make that discovery ASAP! Too bad it doesn't usually happen that way...

09-28-2009, 11:25 AM	#28
DevLight New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 12	Hey Vagrant, I have some ideas in this area as I've asked out girls before. Its a big post but I hope i make some sense. 1) Never actually ask someone "do you like me?". While the person may actually like you, this is rarely the case. It is usually pretty easy to estimate if a person likes you. Girls are easy to pick out. They'll hang out with you lots, they'll talk to you lots, and they'll give you attention. And this conversation (the do you like me convo) can become very very awkward and turn a growing relationship into distant aquaintances. The best relationships are the ones that are done naturally. While sometimes it is nessicary to ask someone "do you like me?", its better off if you dont. And If your ever asking yourself "does she like me?" then she probably doesnt. Your beyond this stage so thats a good thing! 2) Never ask someone out on a "date". Instead, ask them to hang out with you. The word "date" is a word filled with tension. It sets up expectations that you two may become a couple after this date, furthermore it means that you have to be funny, outgoing, you have to win her over. Its much better to just say "Hey, me and (some of your friends that she knows if possible) are going to shoot pool/dinner, wanna come?" This way, her expectations of you being all romantic and everything are lowered, it makes it less worrysome for her which means more time for her to enjoy you! 3) Like others have pointed out, there are ways to see if she will reciprocate the feelings for you as you have for her. Like "accidentally" bumping into her. You can do this in a funny way too. Like the obvious "OOPS!" making it known that you intentionally ran into her. If she responds with a "Hey!!" and bumps you back, she trusts you and more than likely likes you. 4) If shes being playful with you (even if its just verbally) try being overly judgemental in a very sarcastic way so that its known that your joking. Like "ooo nice job" in a dumb sarcastic voice. Then if she comes back and does it to you, (thats a good thing) act all defensive "HEY!!!" and she'll laugh that she got you to react that way (you can be sure she likes you now) 5) As for date suggestions and how to come off un-needy, you can bring her out with a group of friends somewhere, or a movie date. Whats important here is that your comfortable around her in what your doing. Movie's are only a good idea if you are confident she likes you. This way you can put your hand on her lap(or around her shoulder) or "make a move" and forward the relationship. (If she likes you she'll find this romantic) Dinner is almost always a bad idea. I always thought it was a good idea until I went on a few dates where I included dinner. For an INTJ dinner = disaster. Why? Because theres you, the person you like, and small talk. You haven't been friends forever so theres not much to talk about. Unless you two are completely comfortable with one another, dinner will seem awkward. So I wouldn't do dinner until you become a pair ya know? My personal favourite idea: Going out with some of your friends (shooting pool, dinner), invite her along then later on in the night break off with just her. This has worked wonders in the past because it allows for a few things 1) How the night will go largely depends on the first 10-15 minutes. If your out to dinner with her and conversation lasts 2 minutes, your in for a LONG night. But if you have 3 other friends with you conversation will almost always never end. You can talk with your buddies and crack jokes and she'll probably laugh too. This sets the mood for the night, and thats very important. 2) After establishing a good mood, you can break off with her and go do something. You'll both be in talkative moods (thanks to your friends) & be in a good mood. This is where you can make your move. You can start to compliment her, if its cold outside lend her your arm or jacket etc! And dont worry if you mess up. I've done so many dumb things its holarious. GOOD LUCK!
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09-28-2009, 11:49 AM	#29
Ekagra Member [04%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 195	Take her out to dinner & kiss her.
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09-29-2009, 05:22 PM	#30
Vagrant Core Member [155%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 6,225	Hey INTJf, I have another question... So she seems comfortable with my touching her... doesn't seem to bother her at all, and she's tried it back too. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. My problem is now... how do I move to that kiss portion? Or how do I go about asking her to be my girlfriend? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Or whether we're dating? Haaaaaalp
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09-29-2009, 06:04 PM	#32
mrStevens Member [35%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,425	You look into her eyes. She looks into yours. You lean closer. She leans closer. You close your eyes. She closes hers. Your lips meet! Fireworks explode above you! Then sex happens.... At least that's what they show in the movies. HTH.
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09-29-2009, 06:59 PM	#36
larkin Core Member [144%] MBTI: ENxP Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 5,782	Well, isn't this embarrassing. (for me, to cop to my terrible moves - and worse yet, share them as somehow good advice?) But okay. At your place, offer her a drink. When you hand them the drink, stand reasonably close. Take a sip, put your drink down. Put their drink down. God, it's worse writing it than it is doing it. But it works. They get it, you get it, everyone's on the same page.
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09-29-2009, 07:26 PM	#38
SeaCzar Veteran Member [66%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,668	Vagrant, From what I have read, this really sounds like you are in, and is a total no-brainer. Next time you touch and touch back, pull her in and give her a good snog. You'll blow both of your minds at the same time. I'd bet on it. Last edited by Storm; 10-01-2009 at 07:52 PM. Reason: Removed signature
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09-29-2009, 08:06 PM	#39
PLC Member [02%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 111	Ok I ain't all that great in that kind of stuff but I don't think you have to directly kiss her to seal the deal. If you're in a position where you have a chance to wrap your arms around her without it being awkward or something similar. I think it would have a much better effect than a rushed kiss. You'll know right there if she's interested or not, and If she is, it won't be long before the kiss comes anyway. I haven't dated in forever so take it with a grain of salt haha.
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10-01-2009, 07:23 PM	#41
Vagrant Core Member [155%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 6,225	Hey INTJf, an update here: sigh Bad news. So instead of being an INTP, to me it's now clear she's an ESFX. I guess her initial wariness and talk about different cultures fooled me in the beginning. Oh well, guess another one to add to the "friends" heap. I don't mean this in a derogatory way. I just find S-types boring, ESF's particularly so.
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10-01-2009, 07:37 PM	#42
mrStevens Member [35%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,425	LOL! Hmmm. This MBTI relationship filter is a new concept for me. Good to find out now I guess??
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10-01-2009, 07:49 PM	#43
PLC Member [02%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 111	What happened if you don't mind telling us?
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10-01-2009, 07:53 PM	#44
Storm Administrator MBTI: xxxx Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 14,681	To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. This doesn't make sense. If you liked before, how do you not like her now? So what, her letters are different, she's the same person.
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10-01-2009, 08:10 PM	#46
Storm Administrator MBTI: xxxx Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 14,681	Type theory isn't as simple as that. Just because she likes to talk about her friends when first getting to know you and just because she engaged in a silly instant message conversation doesn't make her an ESFx. You have to know someone really well to be able to guess their type, because type isn't apparent from outward actions, it's why people do what they do. Don't worry about type when getting to know someone.
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10-02-2009, 08:25 PM	#49
PLC Member [02%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 111	I know the feeling. Sometimes you'll put someone on a pedestal only to realize they aren't all what you've made them up to be. Loves makes you blind they say.
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10-02-2009, 08:57 PM	#50
Billy Cox Member [05%] MBTI: IXTJ Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 226	...and it's always best to make that discovery ASAP! Too bad it doesn't usually happen that way...
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