[Mountain Lion]

Most of us are judges here, probably. Well, what makes you think your assessments of other people are accurate? You really think that person ENFP or ISTJ? You do?
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Even if you are aware of
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
? Still confident in yourself? Anyone ever heard of a debilitating condition called arrogance
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[coffeeloverfreak]

You're misinterpreting the J in MBTI. Judging doesn't mean the same as judgmental. It just means that you tend to extrovert your judging function (T or F) over your perceiving function (N or S). In the case of an INTJ, we would introvert intuition and extrovert thinking. An INTP would introvert thinking and extrovert intuition.

As for fundamental attribution, I don't think most people here are suggesting that a person's personality type is the cause of everything they see or do in life. Rather, personality can help explain people to a degree. But we're all much more complex than a set of 4 letters; I think most people understand that.

[DeadSpace]

Originally Posted by Mountain Lion To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Most of us are judges here, probably. Well, what makes you think your assessments of other people are accurate? You really think that person ENFP or ISTJ? You do? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Even if you are aware of To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ? Still confident in yourself? Anyone ever heard of a debilitating condition called arrogance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

That theory is pretty much common sense, dealing with any scenerio sim you have to look at everything for reliable results. There is no one true way to cover all the bases...kinda obvious. Also obvious is you cannot let personal motivations interfere with rational thought. That creates a flawed result, useless. An approach from multiple viewpoints is always best, everything known/observed/deduced factored in and weighted. Something else i also believe is common sense...or should be. Philosophies tend to be flawed because they are inflexible and cannot adapt, or be adapted to every situtation. Flexible, adaptive approach works best in dealing with people.
And quite confident in myself, i don't follow a philosophy to guide my thinking. I use the what works approach...JIT for the mind
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[Mountain Lion]

	Originally Posted by coffeeloverfreak To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You're misinterpreting the J in MBTI. Judging doesn't mean the same as judgmental.

I did not claim the opposite
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
You are misinterpreting my post!
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.






Mountain Lion added to this post, 3 minutes and 3 seconds later...

	Originally Posted by DeadSpace To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That theory is pretty much common sense,

Everything is common sense after you hear about it. Interestingly, research has shown that common sense derrived from experimnetal research
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
is not that common
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
And attribution error is fundamental! Which means even if you aware of it, there is still a big change that you will make it. Again, that's what research shows
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[DeadSpace]

	Originally Posted by Mountain Lion To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Everything is common sense after you hear about it. Interestingly, researched has shown that common sense is not that common To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. And attribution error is fundamental! Which means even if you aware of it, there is still a big change that you will make it. Again, that's what research shows.

Heh, while common sense is uncommon, the attribute error is easy enough to avoid. Fundamental maybe to the people researching it, or to their test subjects. It would be accurate if everyone did it, without fail. They cannot test everyone on the planet, and not everyone muddles their own personal views into an assessment.
They made the very attribute error they refer to, incomplete information and assuming that their research, thought patterns, and personal experiences related to everyone....very egotistical of them.

[Mountain Lion]

haha... experimental research does have some credibility in this world
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
But if you are correct and trained psychologists have reached a wrong conclussion, then, in this particular instance, we are all much better off. So, hopefully, you are right
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[Paul V]

A) I don't put too much faith in research. I tend to distrust everything and everyone.

B) I will continue to judge people the way I want to, for the following reason: If I were to be left in an unknown room alone in the dark, I would rather have a flashlight that provided red light than not having anything at all. While illuminating the room with red light might lead me to make a critical mistake while navigating around, the chances for that to happen without the flashlight would increase exponentially. In conclusion, I would rather have a classification system, even a biased one, than having none at all.

C) Just for the sake of irony, I'd like to point out that you are being judgmental yourself, when you judge us for judging others.

[Mountain Lion]

	I don't put too much faith in research. I tend to distrust everything and everyone.

That's unfortunate that you distrust everyone and everything
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
However, you should be able to critically assess research findings and decide whether they have credibility or not, right? You can also try to replicate the research if you are interested in the subject (and that's exactly what happens in academic research, people replicate and confirm findings for a research conclussion to be accepted as credible in academic community).

I will continue to judge people the way I want to, for the following reason: If I were to be left in an unknown room alone in the dark, I would rather have a flashlight that provided red light than not having anything at all. While illuminating the room with red light might lead me to make a critical mistake while navigating around, the chances for that to happen without the flashlight would increase exponentially. In conclusion, I would rather have a classification system, even a biased one, than having none at all.

That works, in terms of pure survival strategy, but it also prevents you from trusting people
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

	Just for the sake of irony, I'd like to point out that you are being judgmental yourself, when you judge us for judging others.

I would appreciate it if you would indicate a particular phrase or paragraph that makes you feel that I am judging judgmental people? If you are referring to this

	Anyone ever heard of a debilitating condition called arrogance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

That's not judgment and was intended as a rhetorical device to stimulate people's interest in the subject
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[Paul V]

Originally Posted by Mountain Lion To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

That's unfortunate that you distrust everyone and everything To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. However, you should be able to critically assess research findings and decide whether they have credibility or not, right? You can also try to replicate the research if you are interested in the subject (and that's exactly what happens in academic research, people replicate and confirm findings for a research conclussion to be accepted as credible in academic community).

I tend to be a rather unfortunate person.

Yes, I tend to verify for myself whatever I find, or, if I'm unable to verify it, I tend to compare it to similar reliable information and decide whether I will consider it false until proven otherwise or consider it "alledgedly true" (true but not set in stone).

	Originally Posted by Mountain Lion To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That works, in terms of pure survival strategy, but it also prevents you from trusting people To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I fail to see the problem with that.

	Originally Posted by Mountain Lion To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I would appreciate it if you would indicate a particular phrase or paragraph that makes you feel that I am judging judgmental people? If you are referring to this That's not judgment and was intended as a rhetorical device to stimulate people's interest on the subject To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yes, I was refering to that, and the condescending attitude of this post:

Everything is common sense after you hear about it. Interestingly, research has shown that common sense derrived from experimnetal research To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. is not that common To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. And attribution error is fundamental! Which means even if you aware of it, there is still a big change that you will make it. Again, that's what research shows To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Even if that was intended to be a joke, I'd still find it... how would I put it...? condescending. That's an example I would use on a child. But that's purely a matter of personal interpretation, so I won't argue any further.

Also, you say "rhethorical device", I hear "clever taunt".

[Alpha Prime]

	Originally Posted by Paul V To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Also, you say "rhethorical device", I hear "clever taunt".

I agree. In fact, I find the introductory post condescending as well.

You do seem to have problem with judgemental people.

[Colette]

	Originally Posted by Alpha Prime To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I agree. In fact, I find the introductory post condescending as well. You do seem to have problem with judgemental people.

Yeah; dripping with condescension
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


However do you consider yourself judgmental? In what ways, do you think?

I try to avoid judgmentalism as it conflicts with some of my ethical beliefs and precepts; however I find myself unwittingly displaying judgmental tendencies and attitudes when it comes to the following areas: (i) parenting issues and (ii) attitude to work/achievement. In other respects I largely seem to succeed in steering clear of it, and in accepting others' differences, and different thinking and approach, without passing judgment on it, or needing to tell the person what I think they should be thinking or doing.

[Mountain Lion]

I judge myself to be critical, not condescending!
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

	Also, you say "rhetorical device", I hear "clever taunt".

A taunt it might be, but it's not a judgment
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

	I fail to see the problem with that.

Trust allows one to establish friendships and romantic relationships with other people. Surviving without trust means missing out on some of the most enjoyable aspects of human existence. Trusting other people may not be safe, but it's more fun - life on the edge, you never know who will stab you in the back
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Plus, there is always a chance that none is really interested in cutting your throat after all
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

	I tend to be a rather unfortunate person.

That could be rectified by adopting an optimistic view on life. For instance, the only way to know whether you can trust someone or not is by trusting them. Giving everyone benefit of the doubt, forgiving them their weaknesses and giving them a second chance over and over again as they fail requires emotional courage, strength and hope - all the characteristics that define an optimist. It's tough and entails extra risk, but the rewards can be enormous. And if your lifespan shortens as a consequence (though, research shows that the opposite is true) at least you lived like a human being and not an animal preoccupied solely with survival, neglecting one' capacity to love, to dream and to turn those dreams into a reality
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[Paul V]

	Originally Posted by Mountain Lion To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I judge myself to be critical, not condescending! To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

You've just proven your first post is right with that very statement.

	Originally Posted by Mountain Lion To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	A taunt it might be, but it's not a judgment To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It's a rhethorical question, which is to be understood as a statement, which is a judgment.

Originally Posted by Mountain Lion To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Trust allows one to establish friendships and romantic relationships with other people. Surviving without trust means missing out on some of the most enjoyable aspects of human existence. Trusting other people may not be safe, but it's more fun - life on the edge, you never know who will stab you in the back To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Plus, there is always a chance that none is really interested in cutting your throat after all To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I do not like living life on the edge. That is not a suitable definition of "fun" in my book. And I can't trust people's judgment of my value to them, to determine whether I'm worthy or not to have my throat cut.

Originally Posted by Mountain Lion To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

That could be rectified by adopting an optimistic view on life. For instance, the only way to know whether you can trust someone or not is by trusting them. Giving everyone benefit of the doubt, forgiving them their weaknesses and giving them a second chance over and over again as they fail requires emotional courage, strength and hope - all the characteristics that define an optimist. It's tough and entails extra risk, but the rewards can be enormous. And if your lifespan shortens as a consequence (though, research shows that the opposite is true) at least you lived like a human being and not an animal preoccupied solely with survival, neglecting one' capacity to love, to dream and to turn those dreams into a reality To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I'm not sure if my point of view is optimistic or not. I'm always the first to say "Well, look at the bright side...", because I'm determined to extract something positive, even if it's tiny, from misfortune.

I have never experienced all those 'rewards' you claim to come with trust. Until I don't see any solid evidence of that, I'm not trusting anyone (and this is not an exaggeration, I really do mean anyone).

[Mountain Lion]

Haha... oh, well, I tried. Time to go to bed
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Hey, I hope you will get the chance to see that evidence sooner rather than later. But, i guess, the ultimate question you should ask yourself is whether you are happy living your life the way it is right now or whether you would like to make some changes. And as you keep asking yourself that for the duration of your entire life, you might decide at some point that it's a time to face the not so bright side of life and accept its challenge with a smile and anticipation
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[OneBadMother]

Eh, I think there has to be a balance. You shouldn't live your whole life in fear of the outside, nor should you jump off a cliff just for the experience. I would still err on the side of the former. Sure, trust builds relationships etc. etc., but caution makes for a better chance of survival. :P

[Nomad]

I figure other people just do what they do. I do what I do. In the end, I usually wind up more respected, and I find that in conflict, I usually win. My friends are intensely loyal, and I've pretty much stymied my opponents attempts to get in my way.Whether their choice is inherent or situational is of limited relevance, I deal with the facts of that choice. As others have said, people are too complicated to put into neat little boxes. In determining whether their actions/choices are inherent or situational is next to impossible. You can't know everything there is to know about a person, because people don't know or understand themselves completely. Therefore, you can't make an accurate assessment based on this research.

I know several psychologists, psychiatrists and sociologists.Mostly they describe their profession as voodoo. Not to say what they do is not valuable, but it's sort of like wandering around in the dark with a red flashlight.

And by the way, I found the tone of your post condescending as well.

-Nomad

[Mountain Lion]

	Therefore, you can't make an accurate assessment based on this research.

Quality research methods allow to make assessment that are either accurate or very close to being accurate while dealing with the obstacles you've mentioned.

	I know several psychologists, psychiatrists and sociologists. Mostly they describe their profession as voodoo. Not to say what they do is not valuable, but it's sort of like wandering around in the dark with a red flashlight.

Perhaps, they describe their profession as voodoo because they specialize in the subject of voodoo
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I'll make statement to the contrary and will say that the psychologists, psychiatrists and socioligists I know have a profound respect for their colleagues and the people who've contributed to their professions and would never claim that what they do is voodoo.

	And by the way, I found the tone of your post condescending as well.

Thank you for your feedback
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[Nomad]

So, Freud had it dialed, and all his theories panned out? They can be panned out in research if you follow his premise.

People are far more complicated than this research allows for. It is therefore incomplete. To assume total knowledge of an individual, and then extrapolate it out to the rest of humanity, and call it good, strike me as arrogant and judgmental. The best scientific minds in the nineteenth century assumed aboriginal populations were savages, with little chance of redemption, if at all.

My friends in this profession understand the limitations of research into their fields. Sociologists do understand that their perceptions of other cultures are filtered thought the lens of their own, and recognize it's unavoidable, and that conclusion are incomplete, and very good guesses at best. Do you really know one of these professionals who thinks that he knows all there is to know about human beings? That such a thing is possible?

-Nomad

[Paul V]

Originally Posted by Mountain Lion To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Haha... oh, well, I tried. Time to go to bed To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Hey, I hope you will get the chance to see that evidence sooner rather than later. But, i guess, the ultimate question you should ask yourself is whether you are happy living your life the way it is right now or whether you would like to make some changes. And as you keep asking yourself that for the duration of your entire life, you might decide at some point that it's a time to face the not so bright side of life and accept its challenge with a smile and anticipation To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Let me put it this way: "I'd rather survive by myself than die with others."

I'm not entirely happy with the way my life is at the moment (I would like to live alone, for example), but I'm constantly working towards my goals. And the main goal I have is survival.

But you're right, you tried. And for what it's worth, I agree with Nomad.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.