INTJ showing affection

**m0nk3y** · 02-04-2008, 10:50 AM

So I'm interested in knowing what the story is from an INTJ's perspective here. My wife is an INTJ and I'm an INTP. I am very easy going about a lot of stuff. It's a total INTP trait but somethings are really getting to me over the years. I know INTJ's are "independent" and all and that they seek "independence" for their mates as well but it gets to the point that I sometimes wonder if I'm even having a relationship anymore? There are essentially two speeds in our relationship. on or off. We are either very passionate and sexual or aloof and removed. Where is the middle ground? I hate to be the guy that would just like a little affection here and there but it seems to be a bit much. I just feel it's important to show some day to day affection and not necessarily sexual affection. Where is the nice note in my briefcase the interested phone call during the day, the nice touch on my back while cooking a meal for us, the warm hug or kiss goodbye in the morning, the words of respect or encouragement? Is this typical stuff for an INTJ female? I mean if she goes out of town on a business trip for a week I might hear from her a total of 4 times. What's that all about? I do a lot for this woman and our life together, all I want is a so show of respect i guess. Why is this so much to ask from an INTJ female?
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**PortInStorm** · 02-04-2008, 11:25 AM

Well, I don't really think it's a personality thing. I love those things you desire- I bring my husband food treats at work, bake him stuff, do his laundry periodically, try to hug him all the time... Have you looked into her family of origin for clues?

**James Revell** · 02-04-2008, 12:52 PM

	Originally Posted by m0nk3y To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I mean if she goes out of town on a business trip for a week I might hear from her a total of 4 times. What's that all about? I do a lot for this woman and our life together, all I want is a so show of respect i guess. Why is this so much to ask from an INTJ female? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Wow, 4 times! That's twice what I do. I'm now required to call once I've arrived safely and by the night before leaving. Since those correspond with discrete events I can usually meet expectations.

Seriously though, you've heard the expression "out of sight, out of mind"? It's (most likely) not that she doesn't care, but that she's focused on getting other things done. It's difficult for INTJ's to provide the kind of encouragement you're talking for even when we're looking right at you.

I thought INTP's were like absent-minded professors so I'd think you'd understand this kind of focus. This need for encouragement sounds more SF-like. Are you initiating similar encouragement to her (notes/calls and touch/hug)?? Don't expect her to act like a standard female.

**quentin** · 02-04-2008, 01:08 PM

Affection within a relationship? That's the definition of a romantic, loving relationship to me. I love touching and doing all these goo-ey little things like baking pies for my loved one. I love to lightly run my fingers over her skin and give little smiles at private jokes between only us two and all those little things that make a relationship worthwhile, worth more than just an animal sexual relationship.

But anyone who isn't my lover? Who dares try and touch me? You had better be a very, very good friend of mine to do so. Physical affection is a serious matter and not to be taken lightly.

**JTG** · 02-04-2008, 01:31 PM

Yeah i think looking at how she is with her family will help you understand more what she's like in your own household. If she's very cold toward her family (i am) then it may just be her familial manner. Some things to help fill in the image for the rest of us:

How long have you two been together/married?
How were things earlier in the relationship?
Is her professional/outside life stressful at all?
Do you suspect her of having somebody else? (It's not an accusation, just a question like the others.)

Those are the biggest factors i could see playing into a lack of attention/affection from your partner. It may be that she has always been "on or off" like you say, but as time has passed it becomes a bigger deal to you. Maybe she used to be more "on" but as time passes the desires and newness run low, so she becomes "off" more of the time.

Maybe she has other worries on her mind, so she's preoccupied with them a good deal of the time. I know if i have a particular challenge or worry that's bothering me, a lot of other stuff (especially in my personal life) tends to get neglected until i've worked it out.

It's a long shot judging from what you say, but it's also possible she has somebody else. If things have changed between you two (other than the level of affection) then i guess this could be a factor. If you are attentive and affectionate, and if she still enjoys the intimacy between you two, then i would say this one's probably not it. As long as i feel loved and that the relationship is sound otherwise, i never really feel the need to stray.

Whatever's causing it, i wouldn't look at the lack of affection as too threatening. That itself is probably more of an effect than a cause. Find what's distracting/detracting from her attentions, and there's your solution.

**m0nk3y** · 02-04-2008, 01:52 PM

We have been together for 8 years now married for 4.5 of those years. She was obviously very affectionate up front as was I. We were both very taken with each other physically and intellectually. Things obviously fade to some degree as time passes but it just seems like I'm putting in the majority of effort at the moment. Yes, I have checked past phone records and emails to see if there is another person in the picture. I've found nothing of the sort that comes even close. She has always been very devote and if there was somebody else I feel the relationship would already be over anyway. It's just this general lack of some interim level of affection that I find very strange. As an INTP it has never bothered me much before. I do know past boyfriends have called her the ice queen at times. But even as a male INTP I need some level of affection beyond just sex and daily conversation. hahahahaha... I sound like a typical feeling focused female here.
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**Solaris** · 02-04-2008, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by m0nk3y
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We have been together for 8 years now married for 4.5 of those years. She was obviously very affectionate up front as was I. We were both very taken with each other physically and intellectually. Things obviously fade to some degree as time passes but it just seems like I'm putting in the majority of effort at the moment. Yes, I have checked past phone records and emails to see if there is another person in the picture. I've found nothing of the sort that comes even close. She has always been very devote and if there was somebody else I feel the relationship would already be over anyway. It's just this general lack of some interim level of affection that I find very strange. As an INTP it has never bothered me much before. I do know past boyfriends have called her the ice queen at times. But even as a male INTP I need some level of affection beyond just sex and daily conversation. hahahahaha... I sound like a typical feeling focused female here.
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Holy crap did you really just say you checked her e-mail and phone records?! What a huge invasion of privacy! Men like that make me want to password protect everything times 10. Did you ever just try saying "Hey, honey, I need more attention" before jumping to crazy paranoid conclusions about other men? Sorry to...not wait, I'm not sorry...but I know I'm coming across as rather angry and probably "shouting" but, wow, I just am really taken aback by that.

And, as is often said, being a T doesn't preclude you from having feelings, so it's quite normal to have them and be concerned about them.

**m0nk3y** · 02-04-2008, 03:43 PM

Yes you heard correctly I checked her email and phone records recently. I'm sorry that offends you but I would have no problem with her doing the same with mine. It's not like I'm extremely proud of it or something. We are all human and sometimes our lives lead us into areas we are not proud of. This particular "travesty" is something I have never done in the past but really have never had reason to do so. And yes I did ask her flat out but nothing stops people from lying from time to time either. If your moral track record stands above mine I'm very happy for you.

**JTG** · 02-04-2008, 03:55 PM

Insecurity is a natural thing, especially when a loved one seems less attentive than usual. In some cases, it may be better to quietly check into it and alleviate one's worry than to ask directly if there's something going on and risk putting your partner on edge. I know i'd probably take it as a big insult if somebody accused me of cheating, but if my partner, without my knowledge, checked and found nothing, who's to say it isn't for the better? I'm generally very honest and open with my partners. If they want to check in on any of my goings on or communications, it's fine with me as long as they don't tip off others that they're doing it.

It has been an issue before with me, on both sides of the relationships. Overall, i'd say there's less trouble caused by quiet inquiry than there is holding in your doubts and letting it affect you in other ways. I've always felt that jealous outbursts make one look foolish, whether they're based on correct assumptions or not.

Since that's not the issue though, my guess is that either the novelty is wearing off, or she's stressed/preoccupied. You'd have to look at her interactions at families' houses or at work to know for sure i guess.

**Solaris** · 02-04-2008, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by m0nk3y
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Yes you heard correctly I checked her email and phone records recently. I'm sorry that offends you but I would have no problem with her doing the same with mine. It's not like I'm extremely proud of it or something. We are all human and sometimes our lives lead us into areas we are not proud of. This particular "travesty" is something I have never done in the past but really have never had reason to do so. And yes I did ask her flat out but nothing stops people from lying from time to time either. If your moral track record stands above mine I'm very happy for you.

Perhaps this is one thing that greatly divides E's from I's. I am very direct with people, and upfront with what I am thinking. If I suspected an SO of cheating, I would watch for a bit, and then just ask. The fact that it would even enter into my mind would be enough to make me want to discuss it with him really.

I have to give you kudos for being open enough to admit here that you did this, and also for appearing to be honest about being ok with her doing the same. Still though, I know I could not tolerate such an invasion of my privacy without some form of prior discussion about mistrust or distrust within the relationship.

**Antares** · 02-04-2008, 09:20 PM

Eck. I can't really give you advice because I can be really fluffy in a romantic relationship. Good luck! :D

Camelopardalis added to this post, 0 minutes and 49 seconds later...

Originally Posted by Solaris
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Perhaps this is one thing that greatly divides E's from I's. I am very direct with people, and upfront with what I am thinking. If I suspected an SO of cheating, I would watch for a bit, and then just ask. The fact that it would even enter into my mind would be enough to make me want to discuss it with him really.

I have to give you kudos for being open enough to admit here that you did this, and also for appearing to be honest about being ok with her doing the same. Still though, I know I could not tolerate such an invasion of my privacy without some form of prior discussion about mistrust or distrust within the relationship.

I'm brutally honest... And people don't like that... lol.

**spiritdetectivegirl** · 02-05-2008, 12:12 AM

I hide my brutalness, more or less because I know my friend would'nt be able to take it. She's so sensitive. Same thing with my mother, and I don't want to show her how I really am all the time because my fat-her is a INTJ, and I hate acting like either of my parents, I want to be my own self. There's that famous INTJ indepent side showing.

The only time I'm myself is when I'm alone, or with other guy-friends. And about the question presented I have done that before, to hide myself at any rate.

**vaguely dissatisfied** · 02-05-2008, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by m0nk3y
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So I'm interested in knowing what the story is from an INTJ's perspective here. My wife is an INTJ and I'm an INTP. I am very easy going about a lot of stuff. It's a total INTP trait but somethings are really getting to me over the years. I know INTJ's are "independent" and all and that they seek "independence" for their mates as well but it gets to the point that I sometimes wonder if I'm even having a relationship anymore? There are essentially two speeds in our relationship. on or off. We are either very passionate and sexual or aloof and removed. Where is the middle ground? I hate to be the guy that would just like a little affection here and there but it seems to be a bit much. I just feel it's important to show some day to day affection and not necessarily sexual affection. Where is the nice note in my briefcase the interested phone call during the day, the nice touch on my back while cooking a meal for us, the warm hug or kiss goodbye in the morning, the words of respect or encouragement? Is this typical stuff for an INTJ female? I mean if she goes out of town on a business trip for a week I might hear from her a total of 4 times. What's that all about? I do a lot for this woman and our life together, all I want is a so show of respect i guess. Why is this so much to ask from an INTJ female?
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Your wife sounds almost exactly like me! I can't tell you how good it is to hear that I am not alone in the universe!

I would love to give you some insight into how my mind works, but first I must ask a question of you that has frustrated me for my entire life.

I realize that there are what are considered to be normal behaviours out there in society and I also realize that we all, to some degree, must try to conform to these societal norms in order to maintain a relatively peaceful coexistance. Having said that..........I have always been upset by what other people expect of me. It always seems that no matter how hard I try to do things the way that others think I should do them........it's never good enough. I will tell you that I have tried extremely hard over the years to do things the way that others do them. It is exhausting and frustrating and it leaves me feeling unacceptable almost all the time.

My question is this..............Who within a partnership gets to dictate how each partner should behave? I mean.......why does one partner need to change to suite the other partner's needs or desires because that partner thinks it's normal or reasonable?

**m0nk3y** · 02-05-2008, 11:00 AM

Well in my opinion a relationship is a subjective endeavor. I have always struggled myself with holding my relationships up to what I perceive to be an "objective" ideal. It truth this "objectivity" is just my subjective ideal. So to me a relationship is about establishing and communicating the subjective ideals of the two people and setting out to fulfill them if you care and respect the other person. It will not always be met but just the trying alone seems valuable to both parties.

**PortInStorm** · 02-05-2008, 11:09 AM

I guess it's a case of wanting to put effort into the relationship. I don't think a person is really changing themselves by a few hugs and a note or two, especially since it means a great deal to a person they claim to love. Is it unreasonable to ask such small things to please someone you love, especially in response to effort your spouse puts in?

**Uytuun** · 02-05-2008, 11:10 AM


	Where is the nice note in my briefcase the interested phone call during the day, the nice touch on my back while cooking a meal for us, the warm hug or kiss goodbye in the morning, the words of respect or encouragement? Is this typical stuff for an INTJ female? I mean if she goes out of town on a business trip for a week I might hear from her a total of 4 times. What's that all about?

Well...I have to admit that while reading that, I was thinking: "so?" and "it seems like he wants her to behave like some sort of female/romantic ideal".

Note in briefcase is something I don't see myself doing constantly after 8 years of being together. I love to surprise my loved ones with little notes, but it has to be original and shouldn't become a routine or something that is expected of me because it's "normal" female behaviour.

Interested phonecall during the day...I hate the phone and I hate pointless phonecalls with a passion. Calling just to hear how someone is doing is something I don't generally do if everything seems fine with the person in question. If they need support or sound sad or were grumpy etc. or if I feel like surprising them or on special occasions* then yes, maybe, but it's not my chosen form of communication and work is work. I wouldn't appreciate daily phonecalls at work. When I'm at work, I focus on work (at least when I'm not in love - which I assume you aren't anymore after 8 years). Besides, I assume that you guys live together and thus spend quite some time together every day. What's the point of calling during the day on a regular basis?

*Note that these actions are focussed on the other person. INTJ women (at least moi) don't *need* men to the extent most other women do. They deal with things on their own and only very rarely require support(ive phonecalls). When we do and you're there for us, though, that means the world to us. Sometimes it simply doesn't occur to us that the other person requires more. If you need more, tell us. But don't expect us to turn into ESFJs.

Touch on the back, hug and kiss...I love those little romantic gestures and they come natural to me when I'm with someone I'm in love with, but I don't know if they would still be that frequent after 8 years...

Words of respect and encouragement...if you need a lot of this, then INTJ is not the way to go. I will definitely tell someone when I think they've done a good job, but I won't fuss about it for half an hour. I will also flat out tell them when I admire an aspect of their personality or just generally be grateful when they've done something for me etc. or even just for being there for me. I will be supportive, but I won't tell you "Baby, you can do it, you're so great, you're such an awesome guy, wow, I admire you so much *hug* *hug* *kiss* *kiss* *stroke ego* *stroke ego*". No, it will be more something like "I'm convinced that you can do this. You're prepared, you're intrinsically qualified and you're enthousiastic. They would make a great choice in choosing you. *hug* Good luck."

It's quality over quantity in this area. Many people prefer the first variant, I prefer the second. Of course, when people are clearly beyond reason (e.g. heartbroken) I'll try my best to provide just hugs and a listening ear and go from what I call "problem-solving/rational support" to "sympathy support". The INTJ style remains, of course. We just care/support/comfort in our own way.

Calling 4 times a week when she's away...sounds like a satisfactory number of phonecalls to me...I suppose that a business trip isn't that exciting and she doesn't really feel like she has anything new to talk to you about. She's focussed on work and it's like...a week, not 6 years or anything. You'll talk when she gets back. I think calling when arriving and before leaving is normal and all the rest should be because she *feels* like talking to you (because she misses you or she wants to talk about work or what's happened to her...), not because of certain pre-set expectations on your part. And when she doesn't feel like talking to you for 3 days, that doesn't mean that she no longer loves you...

You've got to be careful with all these expectations and routiny stuff, I hated the feeling that I was supposed to text message my ex-boyfriend every day. He complained that I didn't do more spontaneous sweet things, I asked him for more space constantly. After a while I didn't feel like myself anymore in the relationship, which was part of why I broke it off. With regard to INTJ women, keep in mind that when you set us free, we'll come back on our own, but when you try to trap us, we'll run away as fast as we can.

Also, you don't strike me as INTP...and the things you require remind me of my ESFJ mother.

[EDIT] I have to correct myself here after reading


	hahahahaha... I sound like a typical feeling focused female here

and remembering that that is the effect I had on my ex (INTJ)...you don't don't strike me as an INTP any longer.
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But the ESFJ thing still stands. [/EDIT]

Also, respect is tricky with INTJs. For me there are different levels of respect. Full respect (sometimes bordering on admiration) is not acquired easily. If you've been together for 8 years, I suspect that she respects you on one of the higher levels. You should really specifiy your interpretation of the term "respect", though.


	My question is this..............Who within a partnership gets to dictate how each partner should behave? I mean.......why does one partner need to change to suite the other partner's needs or desires because that partner thinks it's normal or reasonable?

Good question, I think that you should try to find some middle ground. I'm not opposed to trying some more feelery behaviours, but I expect the other person to appreciate and respect my inner INTJ core.

Alright, so this from an INTJ female perspective...hope it's helpful.

**vaguely dissatisfied** · 02-05-2008, 11:34 AM

So...........I think the message I'm recieving is that each person within the relationship needs to bend a little to meet the needs of the other and that each person should try to understand and accept the other for who they are and how they feel regardless of societal norms?

vaguely dissatisfied added to this post, 7 minutes and 5 seconds later...

	Originally Posted by 2ndtimestudent To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I guess it's a case of wanting to put effort into the relationship. I don't think a person is really changing themselves by a few hugs and a note or two, especially since it means a great deal to a person they claim to love. Is it unreasonable to ask such small things to please someone you love, especially in response to effort your spouse puts in?

I think that any request may be absolutely doable or too much to ask. This completely depends on the particular relationship and what each individual is willing and comfortable doing. In other words, within one relationship it may be nothing at all to ask for a few notes and a few extra hugs and in another it may be more than the individual is willing to do. This could be because they feel they are already doing as much hugging and note giving as they can, or they may feel that there is not enough giving from the other person in ways that they want to be given to, or they may feel that they are being asked to pretend affection etc.

**m0nk3y** · 02-05-2008, 12:03 PM

	Originally Posted by Uytuun
	Also, you don't strike me as INTP...and the things you require remind me of my ESFJ mother.

Yeah I'm an INTP through and through. I believe dating any INTJ will make any personality type seem like an SF. It can be like dealing with a robot ice queen at times. I have been called a robot myself but I'm still human and need a basic show of affection from the woman I respect and love. It's funny because many people outside of our relationship think we are both icy and distant. That doesn't mean I'm not somewhat softer on the inside.
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**vaguely dissatisfied** · 02-05-2008, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by m0nk3y
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Also, you don't strike me as INTP...and the things you require remind me of my ESFJ mother.

Yeah I'm an INTP through and through. I believe dating any INTJ will make any personality type seem like an SF. It can be like dealing with a robot ice queen at times. I have been called a robot myself but I'm still human and need a basic show of affection from the woman I respect and love. It's funny because many people outside of our relationship think we are both icy and distant. That doesn't mean I'm not somewhat softer on the inside.
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It sounds like you are very accepting of yourself (INTP) and not very accepting of your partner (INTJ).

**robin.** · 02-05-2008, 12:22 PM

I've never been in a relationship, so take this for what it's worth:

As a female INTJ, I could totally see myself behaving like your SO. I'm not a touchy-feely person, I hatehatehate having to call people to keep tabs on them or let them know where I am, I can go for a few days without having to call, I probably wouldn't do the whole note thing except for a birthday or a special day etc...It's just not how I express my affection for other people. That doesn't mean it's not there, it's just that I guess it's not being expressed in a way that people of your personality type want to receive it.

I can tell you what NOT to do though...don't start expressing your love to her in the same way you want her to give it back to you. If she doesn't hug you all the time, it's probably because she's treating you the same way she'd like to be treated, and part of that is not being hugged all the time. If you do that, she might feel like you are smothering her, and this would only make her withdraw more. Try finding out how she likes being shown affection the best, and do that to her. Perhaps in this situation she'll be more open to suggestions of how you need to be shown love.

**m0nk3y** · 02-05-2008, 01:33 PM

It's very helpful to get an INTJ perspective here. It seems I have not been very good at expressing the idea that I don't normally need a big show of affection. I've always been very hands off and casual. As an INTP I often have a hard time sensing other peoples feelings and so I give others a HUGE amount of leeway here. It's paradoxical that I have been taken to the state I'm in now. For some reason I am having more of a need right now to see some clearly affectionate gestures. It stems in part from the fact that she has confronted me on my need to be more empathetic and work on my sensing feeling skills with her. Her dad is an ISFJ and was overly motherly to her growing up. This seems to be a need she has now. She wants to feel more connected through my showing a deeper empathetic understanding for her with little self-centered focus on myself. As an INTP I come across as very self centered and detached at times. She as an INTJ is also horrible in this area though and it seems to be what I'm asking of her right now also. I think on some level both of our deficiencies in being empathetic are surfacing as a problem in some form or another in regards to the other person here.

**Uytuun** · 02-05-2008, 02:14 PM


	So...........I think the message I'm recieving is that each person within the relationship needs to bend a little to meet the needs of the other and that each person should try to understand and accept the other for who they are and how they feel regardless of societal norms?

If this is in response to my loooong epistle, then yes, basically, that's how I feel. It's interesting that you mention the societal norms. I've always felt like the traditional relationship pattern (dating, living together, getting married, buying a house, getting a kid etc.) is very limited. I think every couple has to figure out their own way of living their relationship with respect for the needs of both people involved. For unconventional types such as us, I think a lot of stress can be avoided when you realise you don't have to be part of the relationship rat-race (highly teleological) and can just shape your own relationship together with your partner. It's like a work in progress then, a paper you get to do the research for and think about, but never actually have to finish writing and hand in. And yes, that's a positive thing, at least to me.
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Besides, papers that aren't handed in yet can be smoothed out and corrected and polished and all, or put away for a while and then resumed.


	It seems I have not been very good at expressing the idea that I don't normally need a big show of affection.

Yeah, but I think we get the picture.

Looks like you two have some talking to do. Look on the bright side: you can do so in a rational, connected manner.
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**vaguely dissatisfied** · 02-05-2008, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by m0nk3y
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It's very helpful to get an INTJ perspective here. It seems I have not been very good at expressing the idea that I don't normally need a big show of affection. I've always been very hands off and casual. As an INTP I often have a hard time sensing other peoples feelings and so I give others a HUGE amount of leeway here. It's paradoxical that I have been taken to the state I'm in now. For some reason I am having more of a need right now to see some clearly affectionate gestures. It stems in part from the fact that she has confronted me on my need to be more empathetic and work on my sensing feeling skills with her. Her dad is an ISFJ and was overly motherly to her growing up. This seems to be a need she has now. She wants to feel more connected through my showing a deeper empathetic understanding for her with little self-centered focus on myself. As an INTP I come across as very self centered and detached at times. She as an INTJ is also horrible in this area though and it seems to be what I'm asking of her right now also. I think on some level both of our deficiencies in being empathetic are surfacing as a problem in some form or another in regards to the other person here.

Am I understanding that your partner wants you to read her mind (empathic ability)? If this is what you mean, then I would say that this is not a reasonable request. Even though you are both intuitive by nature it is really impossible to know what someone is thinking or feeling most of the time.

May I also ask why your partner's request for you to "be more empathetic and work on your sensing feeling skills with her" has triggered the need in you to "see some clearly affectionate gestures?"

**m0nk3y** · 02-05-2008, 05:21 PM

It's triggered a lot of things. In the past I've felt very stable in our relationship. Recently she has really become concerned about embarking on having children until we sort out some issues in our relationship. For her this empathy issue is a concern. I feel this is because of the way she was raised. Her father is an ISFJ and was very doting. He really spoiled her in this area. She strongly feels that this is an area I need to put heavy work into. Not that I need to become like her father but as an INTP I'm under developed in many of these skills. This has thrown the relationship into much more unstable territory now. This makes me need reassurance that we are progressing correctly. This stuff was really less of an issue in the past for me. I've always need some level of reassurance from her but it was always much lower as i've always been confident and self assured. She as an INTJ finds this smothering and it's everything I can do to back off. I can get very OCD and pushy about things that stress me out. So, I've had to just give her space.

**vaguely dissatisfied** · 02-05-2008, 05:36 PM

Well.........I think that the request to read her mind is an unreasonable one and undoable. I don't believe that it is because you are underdeveloped in the skill. Relationships are built on good communication and letting the other person know your needs by using your words. A parent often must learn to 'read' a child because a child does not know why they feel the way they do and often cannot articulate their feelings even if they do know.

But an adult within a relationship should be expected to examine their feelings and needs and discuss them openly and honestly with their partner. The onus is not on their partner to 'figure them out' it is on them to gently help their partner to understand them.

02-04-2008, 10:50 AM	#1
m0nk3y New Member [01%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 14	So I'm interested in knowing what the story is from an INTJ's perspective here. My wife is an INTJ and I'm an INTP. I am very easy going about a lot of stuff. It's a total INTP trait but somethings are really getting to me over the years. I know INTJ's are "independent" and all and that they seek "independence" for their mates as well but it gets to the point that I sometimes wonder if I'm even having a relationship anymore? There are essentially two speeds in our relationship. on or off. We are either very passionate and sexual or aloof and removed. Where is the middle ground? I hate to be the guy that would just like a little affection here and there but it seems to be a bit much. I just feel it's important to show some day to day affection and not necessarily sexual affection. Where is the nice note in my briefcase the interested phone call during the day, the nice touch on my back while cooking a meal for us, the warm hug or kiss goodbye in the morning, the words of respect or encouragement? Is this typical stuff for an INTJ female? I mean if she goes out of town on a business trip for a week I might hear from her a total of 4 times. What's that all about? I do a lot for this woman and our life together, all I want is a so show of respect i guess. Why is this so much to ask from an INTJ female? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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02-04-2008, 11:25 AM	#2
PortInStorm Veteran Member [74%] MBTI: INfJ Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,963	Well, I don't really think it's a personality thing. I love those things you desire- I bring my husband food treats at work, bake him stuff, do his laundry periodically, try to hug him all the time... Have you looked into her family of origin for clues?
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02-04-2008, 01:08 PM	#4
quentin Member [06%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 242	Affection within a relationship? That's the definition of a romantic, loving relationship to me. I love touching and doing all these goo-ey little things like baking pies for my loved one. I love to lightly run my fingers over her skin and give little smiles at private jokes between only us two and all those little things that make a relationship worthwhile, worth more than just an animal sexual relationship. But anyone who isn't my lover? Who dares try and touch me? You had better be a very, very good friend of mine to do so. Physical affection is a serious matter and not to be taken lightly.
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02-04-2008, 01:31 PM	#5
JTG Core Member [246%] MBTI: INFJ Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 9,844	Yeah i think looking at how she is with her family will help you understand more what she's like in your own household. If she's very cold toward her family (i am) then it may just be her familial manner. Some things to help fill in the image for the rest of us: How long have you two been together/married? How were things earlier in the relationship? Is her professional/outside life stressful at all? Do you suspect her of having somebody else? (It's not an accusation, just a question like the others.) Those are the biggest factors i could see playing into a lack of attention/affection from your partner. It may be that she has always been "on or off" like you say, but as time has passed it becomes a bigger deal to you. Maybe she used to be more "on" but as time passes the desires and newness run low, so she becomes "off" more of the time. Maybe she has other worries on her mind, so she's preoccupied with them a good deal of the time. I know if i have a particular challenge or worry that's bothering me, a lot of other stuff (especially in my personal life) tends to get neglected until i've worked it out. It's a long shot judging from what you say, but it's also possible she has somebody else. If things have changed between you two (other than the level of affection) then i guess this could be a factor. If you are attentive and affectionate, and if she still enjoys the intimacy between you two, then i would say this one's probably not it. As long as i feel loved and that the relationship is sound otherwise, i never really feel the need to stray. Whatever's causing it, i wouldn't look at the lack of affection as too threatening. That itself is probably more of an effect than a cause. Find what's distracting/detracting from her attentions, and there's your solution.
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02-04-2008, 01:52 PM	#6
m0nk3y New Member [01%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 14	We have been together for 8 years now married for 4.5 of those years. She was obviously very affectionate up front as was I. We were both very taken with each other physically and intellectually. Things obviously fade to some degree as time passes but it just seems like I'm putting in the majority of effort at the moment. Yes, I have checked past phone records and emails to see if there is another person in the picture. I've found nothing of the sort that comes even close. She has always been very devote and if there was somebody else I feel the relationship would already be over anyway. It's just this general lack of some interim level of affection that I find very strange. As an INTP it has never bothered me much before. I do know past boyfriends have called her the ice queen at times. But even as a male INTP I need some level of affection beyond just sex and daily conversation. hahahahaha... I sound like a typical feeling focused female here. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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02-04-2008, 03:43 PM	#8
m0nk3y New Member [01%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 14	Yes you heard correctly I checked her email and phone records recently. I'm sorry that offends you but I would have no problem with her doing the same with mine. It's not like I'm extremely proud of it or something. We are all human and sometimes our lives lead us into areas we are not proud of. This particular "travesty" is something I have never done in the past but really have never had reason to do so. And yes I did ask her flat out but nothing stops people from lying from time to time either. If your moral track record stands above mine I'm very happy for you.
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02-04-2008, 03:55 PM	#9
JTG Core Member [246%] MBTI: INFJ Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 9,844	Insecurity is a natural thing, especially when a loved one seems less attentive than usual. In some cases, it may be better to quietly check into it and alleviate one's worry than to ask directly if there's something going on and risk putting your partner on edge. I know i'd probably take it as a big insult if somebody accused me of cheating, but if my partner, without my knowledge, checked and found nothing, who's to say it isn't for the better? I'm generally very honest and open with my partners. If they want to check in on any of my goings on or communications, it's fine with me as long as they don't tip off others that they're doing it. It has been an issue before with me, on both sides of the relationships. Overall, i'd say there's less trouble caused by quiet inquiry than there is holding in your doubts and letting it affect you in other ways. I've always felt that jealous outbursts make one look foolish, whether they're based on correct assumptions or not. Since that's not the issue though, my guess is that either the novelty is wearing off, or she's stressed/preoccupied. You'd have to look at her interactions at families' houses or at work to know for sure i guess.
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02-05-2008, 12:12 AM	#12
spiritdetectivegirl Member [08%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 352	I hide my brutalness, more or less because I know my friend would'nt be able to take it. She's so sensitive. Same thing with my mother, and I don't want to show her how I really am all the time because my fat-her is a INTJ, and I hate acting like either of my parents, I want to be my own self. There's that famous INTJ indepent side showing. The only time I'm myself is when I'm alone, or with other guy-friends. And about the question presented I have done that before, to hide myself at any rate.
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02-05-2008, 11:00 AM	#14
m0nk3y New Member [01%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 14	Well in my opinion a relationship is a subjective endeavor. I have always struggled myself with holding my relationships up to what I perceive to be an "objective" ideal. It truth this "objectivity" is just my subjective ideal. So to me a relationship is about establishing and communicating the subjective ideals of the two people and setting out to fulfill them if you care and respect the other person. It will not always be met but just the trying alone seems valuable to both parties.
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02-05-2008, 11:09 AM	#15
PortInStorm Veteran Member [74%] MBTI: INfJ Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,963	I guess it's a case of wanting to put effort into the relationship. I don't think a person is really changing themselves by a few hugs and a note or two, especially since it means a great deal to a person they claim to love. Is it unreasonable to ask such small things to please someone you love, especially in response to effort your spouse puts in?
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02-05-2008, 12:22 PM	#20
robin. Member [02%] MBTI: IxTJ Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 106	I've never been in a relationship, so take this for what it's worth: As a female INTJ, I could totally see myself behaving like your SO. I'm not a touchy-feely person, I hatehatehate having to call people to keep tabs on them or let them know where I am, I can go for a few days without having to call, I probably wouldn't do the whole note thing except for a birthday or a special day etc...It's just not how I express my affection for other people. That doesn't mean it's not there, it's just that I guess it's not being expressed in a way that people of your personality type want to receive it. I can tell you what NOT to do though...don't start expressing your love to her in the same way you want her to give it back to you. If she doesn't hug you all the time, it's probably because she's treating you the same way she'd like to be treated, and part of that is not being hugged all the time. If you do that, she might feel like you are smothering her, and this would only make her withdraw more. Try finding out how she likes being shown affection the best, and do that to her. Perhaps in this situation she'll be more open to suggestions of how you need to be shown love.
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02-05-2008, 01:33 PM	#21
m0nk3y New Member [01%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 14	It's very helpful to get an INTJ perspective here. It seems I have not been very good at expressing the idea that I don't normally need a big show of affection. I've always been very hands off and casual. As an INTP I often have a hard time sensing other peoples feelings and so I give others a HUGE amount of leeway here. It's paradoxical that I have been taken to the state I'm in now. For some reason I am having more of a need right now to see some clearly affectionate gestures. It stems in part from the fact that she has confronted me on my need to be more empathetic and work on my sensing feeling skills with her. Her dad is an ISFJ and was overly motherly to her growing up. This seems to be a need she has now. She wants to feel more connected through my showing a deeper empathetic understanding for her with little self-centered focus on myself. As an INTP I come across as very self centered and detached at times. She as an INTJ is also horrible in this area though and it seems to be what I'm asking of her right now also. I think on some level both of our deficiencies in being empathetic are surfacing as a problem in some form or another in regards to the other person here.
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02-05-2008, 05:21 PM	#24
m0nk3y New Member [01%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 14	It's triggered a lot of things. In the past I've felt very stable in our relationship. Recently she has really become concerned about embarking on having children until we sort out some issues in our relationship. For her this empathy issue is a concern. I feel this is because of the way she was raised. Her father is an ISFJ and was very doting. He really spoiled her in this area. She strongly feels that this is an area I need to put heavy work into. Not that I need to become like her father but as an INTP I'm under developed in many of these skills. This has thrown the relationship into much more unstable territory now. This makes me need reassurance that we are progressing correctly. This stuff was really less of an issue in the past for me. I've always need some level of reassurance from her but it was always much lower as i've always been confident and self assured. She as an INTJ finds this smothering and it's everything I can do to back off. I can get very OCD and pushy about things that stress me out. So, I've had to just give her space.
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02-05-2008, 05:36 PM	#25
vaguely dissatisfied Member [38%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,540	Well.........I think that the request to read her mind is an unreasonable one and undoable. I don't believe that it is because you are underdeveloped in the skill. Relationships are built on good communication and letting the other person know your needs by using your words. A parent often must learn to 'read' a child because a child does not know why they feel the way they do and often cannot articulate their feelings even if they do know. But an adult within a relationship should be expected to examine their feelings and needs and discuss them openly and honestly with their partner. The onus is not on their partner to 'figure them out' it is on them to gently help their partner to understand them.
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