[JustMel]

It's not all about educating the girls though either. I've raised three to 18 and beyond without a pregnancy as well.

A good portion of the kids in foster care that get lost in the shuffle are there because mom and dad lost their job and their place to live and CPS took the kids until they could get back on their feet which is hard to do. It's not all crack babies. I work closely with CPS too and a large portion are there because their parents simply couldn't afford to keep a roof over their heads so families are broken apart.

There are plenty of crack babies but a large portion of the kids entering the foster care system are not infants.

Point in Time. The median age of the children in foster care on September 30, 2006, was 10.2 years.
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Entries. The median age of children entering foster care during FY 2006 was 7.5 years.
Exits. The median age of children exiting foster care during FY 2006 was 9.5 years.
Trends. The median age at entry and exit decreased between FY 2000 and FY 2006. The largest decrease was among the entries (from 8.8 to 7.5 years of age). There was a slightly smaller decrease among the exits (from 10.2 to 9.5 years of age).

[daydreamer]

Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Also, work to improve abstinence education and get some moral education into girls before age 13. Tell them that sex is best reserved for a time when you are prepared to raise children. Encourage girls to pursue activities that keep them busy. I got my girls into sports so they had something to occupy their time between school and studying. I have 3 of four to 18 without a pregnancy. The last one is 14 and seems headed in the same direction.

commendable.

but i think education of boys is just as important.

[Vulcanesse]

Originally Posted by smashy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I'm 33 and still trying to decide if I want children. Some days I'm more "softer" I feel a maternal instinct and I would like to have children of my own, but most of the time I wouldn't because it doesn't make sense to me. I'm terrified of losing my freedom, basically. I love to get out of work and be free to do whatever I feel like it, being exercising, shopping, going out with friends or boyfriend, cleaning the house, have alone or me time, or just be couch potato. I love the freedom of being able to chose based on how I feel on each day. I think I deserve that after so many hours working. And when you have children, that stops. Even if you have a partner/husband, your lives change drastically. You'll no longer have that freedom to do whatever you like because when you leave the responsibility of work, you start another one. And this EVERY SINGLE DAY. Even on weekends you are not free. Of course, you can leave the child with your husband if you want to exercise or whatever, but that means never do things together again with your husband just the two of us. And sometimes I also think that it must be fun to be a mother sometimes and some days, but not every single day! When I go for a run at the park and see all those moms driving the babies around in those baby cars (or whatever the name that has) I just feel so free!!!!! Thank Goodness it's not me! lol I want to work for myself in a near future, and maybe if I'm successful doing that I'll be able to have children, because I'll do my own daily schedule and can do things with my child when others are stuck in the office. In this case I think I would like to have children, but working 9-5 (and the commute) and then have even more responsibilities on my few hours outside the office, no thanks! That's not the type of life I want for me. And, if one day I have children, I don't think I'll ever put them before me and my husband, I think I would continue to make our relationship a priority. Also, I don't feel that being a mother is the purpose of my life. Maybe it can be one more thing in my life, but not the top one. I don't feel the need to have children to make me complete or fill a void like some people do. Yeah, and I admit that it scares me to get pregnant, it scares me the labour and it scares me putting in lots of baby weight. I have a close friend that had a baby 1 year ago and I've been watching her transformation from a glamorous woman with a wonderful body to a fat housekeeper that's always tired and only speaks about the baby. Yaiiickkksss! I think other types only see everything pink regarding having children, but I prefer to see how it really is. smashy added to this post, 11 minutes and 52 seconds later... And by society you mean your mother? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. smashy added to this post, 14 minutes and 53 seconds later... Don't forget that there are lots of women of other types that don't really think deep about things like we do and that accept social conventions very easily. So I believe many of those women don't REALLY want to have babies, they just think they want because it's the "normal" thing for a woman. smashy added to this post, 21 minutes and 40 seconds later... I completely agree. When that friend of mine was pregnant, and she knowing that I don't want to have kids so badly as she and I still don't know if I want, and that I totally understand people that don't want to have children, she told me that people who don't want to have children are selfish because it's our purpose in the world. I answered her that having children of "our own" with so many in this world that are unwanted, unloved and need a family and a mother is much more selfish! She was pis** at the time, but later understood what I mean.

I feel exactly the same as everything you just said.

I'm 28 and people always tell me I'll get the urge "biological clock" thing...but I'm not sure.

I've had the exact same "selfish" conversation as well.

I feel relieved to have read your post....thank you





Vulcanesse added to this post, 36 minutes and 5 seconds later...

Originally Posted by curiousgeorge01 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I don't get why people would want to adopt over having their own children. If I had a choice, it would def be my own kids. First off, I don't know under what circumstances the other child was born under. Second, it's a different kind of connection as a part of me isn't in the child. Thirdly, it doesn't matter if there are tons of kids in this world that don't have families, they're not YOUR children. They were the mistake of someone else, why should you bear the burden?

As an adopted person, I must disagree with you whole heartedly. It is not DNA, but experience that creates the bond between parent and child.

Imagine if you had an adopted child (b/c you thought you couldn't have kids or something), then 15 years later, it turned out that you also had a biological kid (around the same time) that you didn't know about. Would you love the bio kid more than the one you had just spent 15 years growing with and shaping?

I think it's simply lack of experience that lead people to think DNA is more important.

[curiousgeorge01]

Originally Posted by Vulcanesse To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

As an adopted person, I must disagree with you whole heartedly. It is not DNA, but experience that creates the bond between parent and child. Imagine if you had an adopted child (b/c you thought you couldn't have kids or something), then 15 years later, it turned out that you also had a biological kid (around the same time) that you didn't know about. Would you love the bio kid more than the one you had just spent 15 years growing with and shaping? I think it's simply lack of experience that lead people to think DNA is more important.

My viewpoint comes more from evolutionary biology. I am not saying that people don't want to adopt children but that the vast majority of people hold the opinion that if it's not their children it's not their problem. It's been well documented in the science that people are more attached to their 'own kind' so the closer they are in DNA as well as relationship to their offspring the more likely they are to help them mature into adults. I guess a simple example would be if a man could only save one child, his own or his nephew who were in a burning house, it is much more likely he would choose his own even if he raised both because he instinctually knows it's his own child, not necessarily because he loves the other child any less. Why do you think that black subway savior was so praised when he saved a white man who fell into the subway tracks? He left his children on the side, jumped in and covered the man knowing a train was coming on to him; biologically, this does not make sense.

I'm just trying to stress a point on the reality of it all. I don't think adopting is a bad thing, it's a good thing that people are willing to open their homes to a child that is not theirs. Unfortunately, because of biology, most people won't.

[daydreamer]

adoption works out differently for different people, even when the child is adopted young. i'm adopted, and having experienced never being related to anyone in my life, it is not something i look forward to with my own children.

[icelandicriot]

I honestly did not want children. For various reasons. One is that i'm selfish and I know this. I like having my own schedule, the ability to go some place on a whim. I like my routine.....and apparently children mess that up. I also work very hard for my body and well, the whole pregnancy thing really messes up that too.

I can now see myself having a child in the future, but not without tons of planning (though as a rational person, all of the planning in the world cannot prepare one for a child).

Also, the whole pregnancy thing really freaks my shit out, to be honest. And there is no way i'm pushing that thing out of me, it's going to be cut out for sure.

The adoption option is very tempting. Not only because my body would be saved from the process of childbearing but because there are many children/babies who need families. However, it is also very important for me to make sure my genes live on as i'm the only offspring of my parents.

[daydreamer]

Originally Posted by icelandicriot To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I honestly did not want children. For various reasons. One is that i'm selfish and I know this. I like having my own schedule, the ability to go some place on a whim. I like my routine.....and apparently children mess that up. I also work very hard for my body and well, the whole pregnancy thing really messes up that too. I can now see myself having a child in the future, but not without tons of planning (though as a rational person, all of the planning in the world cannot prepare one for a child). Also, the whole pregnancy thing really freaks my shit out, to be honest. And there is no way i'm pushing that thing out of me, it's going to be cut out for sure. The adoption option is very tempting. Not only because my body would be saved from the process of childbearing but because there are many children/babies who need families. However, it is also very important for me to make sure my genes live on as i'm the only offspring of my parents.

i wouldn't consider kids until i felt prepared either. dunno your age but if you're a planner you might consider having your eggs taken and frozen. they are better quality when you are young and the process of extracting is more straightforward then. once frozen, the storage fees really are reasonable. you can then have them thawed and fertilized on demand, allowing for you to plan your pregnancy, or, if being pregnant is still such an issue to you at that point and you still want your own kid, you can have someone surrogate your baby for you.

[themuzicman]

	Originally Posted by daydreamer To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	commendable. but i think education of boys is just as important.

It is, but boys don't have the direct consequences of sex that girls face. I do think that teaching boys that treating women with honor and respect, understanding the risks that women face as a result of sex, and refraining from engaging in sex with them until an appropriate time is something we can challenge them with. But boy aren't the ones what will be carrying the child, and I wouldn't expect as great a level of success.

[daydreamer]

Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It is, but boys don't have the direct consequences of sex that girls face. I do think that teaching boys that treating women with honor and respect, understanding the risks that women face as a result of sex, and refraining from engaging in sex with them until an appropriate time is something we can challenge them with. But boy aren't the ones what will be carrying the child, and I wouldn't expect as great a level of success.

i must be missing the obvious - why wouldnt you expect as great a level of success?

[icelandicriot]

Daydreamer,
I have actually considered that, right now it would really be a financial issue of that process. As i'm finishing up my undergrad then grad school and fiance is in grad school, money isn't exactly something we have a surplus of :0)

We certainly do want to have children but want to be as prepared as possible emotionally, mentally, financially, etc.

Thanks for the input!

[Vulcanesse]

	Originally Posted by curiousgeorge01 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	My viewpoint comes more from evolutionary biology. I am not saying that people don't want to adopt children but that the vast majority of people hold the opinion that if it's not their children it's not their problem.

I think it's totally awesome if people want to have their own children. That's a personal choice everyone has to make.

But I think that statement is a sad truth about our society.

I'm also skeptical when I hear evolutionary biology as a justification. Back in the "cave man" times, the only way humans survived was by working together in their "tribes" (or whatever). Some cultures practiced infanticide when the child to adult ratio was too high. So people were apparently willing to kill their own biological children for the better of the community.

[EmilyEvenstar]

I love children! They're pretty fun
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Anyway, I most certainly want children and raise them well.
I think the reason why most of the posters here don't want children is because maybe they weren't raised in a household where they weren't accepted, being only 1% of he population and all. All of these things just come out subconsciously, I guess.

[papkan]

I'm simply afraid that I will skrew up my kids if I ever had any. On the other hand after looking at this
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I realised that our cultures are in danger of dying out. No offence intended towards anyone with this video, like I say I'm concerned about the preservation of all ethinticities.

[LadyInHeels]

Originally Posted by smashy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I'm terrified of losing my freedom, basically. I love to get out of work and be free to do whatever I feel like it, being exercising, shopping, going out with friends or boyfriend, cleaning the house, have alone or me time, or just be couch potato. I love the freedom of being able to chose based on how I feel on each day. I think I deserve that after so many hours working. And when you have children, that stops. Even if you have a partner/husband, your lives change drastically. You'll no longer have that freedom to do whatever you like because when you leave the responsibility of work, you start another one. And this EVERY SINGLE DAY. Even on weekends you are not free.

Preach it! This is exactly how I feel- it's encouraging to hear you standing firm in your beliefs even against opposition. I hope that when I reach 33, I will still have my freedom as well.

[NZPixie]

I have to agree about the screwed up kids out there. But they can be helped. In some cases, if they are helped young enough. I have to say that I could not do it if they were no relation to me, which is selfish, but if they were related I would in a hearbeat.

My partner has a little girl who has had a rough start in life (with her druggy mother, rights of fathers are not good here). She lives with her paternal grandmother (his mother) now, and has for nearly three years. She is four years old, and does have some difficult behaviour. I love that little girl as if she was my own and I consider her to be my own child. She does not live with us because we are in no financial situation to have a child and my partner is not at all mature enough. I also am too selfish to give up my life, and want to get rich before I have my own biological children. I will provide for her for her whole life though, and she is likely to live with us by the time she is 9 or 10.

I also am the oldest of 6 full biological sibilings. I moved out when I was 16. I do not consider my childhood to have been bad and I do not resent it. I did spend as much time away from home as possible from about the age of 14 though, and I learned not to resopond to my own name while reading. And I spent alot of time babysitting. I still feel like the 3rd parent. I love my siblings very much and probably have more invested in them than just big-sisterlyness. We share a strong bond.

I feel that this upbringing has given me strong skills to be a good parent in the future. I find children to be some of the most predictable organisims in the world! People who find them unpredictable clearly do not know or understand children. When I was a teenager I did not want children at all, but I do want children in the future now. Sometimes I want them alot sooner, but my logical mind declares that children may not be born until such a time as finances dictate they will not keep us poor forever. That is likely to be somewhere between the ages of 27 and 30.

I think that people who can provide a good, stable upbringing, good values and a sound education should be having babies. These are a minority in the world, stupid people, druggies, adicts, and the general dregs of society are breeding at a rate much faster than the smart, rich, educated people. Just because there are heaps of people (too many) in the world doesn't mean people who will raise the next generation of smart, educated people should stop having children. Mother nature will take care of the over-population. I tend to believe that those who are financially well off, smart and well educated will come off better from a decimation of the population if that is at all possible.

[123456789]

I find it very difficult to find and keep friends. It is so much easier to grow your own.

There's nothing more enjoyable than having fun with your children and watching them develop into happy problem-solvers.

I guess I am missing out on jumping up and down to repetitive electronic percussion noises while bubbles fall from the ceiling but there should be plenty of time to do that when I am a senile old person.

[Acextreme]

Nah, I am probably more interested in the process than the product in the case of children.
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Ok, jokes aside, yes and no. First, being a responsible person, I don't want to do things with no plans for the future. I see so many families broke up because they lack financial and family planning (i.e. not financially stable and then having kids which adds more burden financially). I want to provide my family (i.e. wife and kids) with the best in life, so they do not have to entangle themselves with secular worries and have more time to develop themselves healthily. Hence, rationally, right now is not optimal and there is more that I need to accomplish in my life so that I have the capability to create that worry-free and stable and warm family I so desire for.

Secondly, raising kids is no simple matter. You need to have the finance and you need to have the capability to raise a family. I want to be the best dad and provide my family with the best but that's an ideal that would be hard to achieve, hence I do "fear" to have kids though I think I have the capability to resolve problems as it appears. Still, the burden of responsibility is large and I don't want to go into it without proper planning for contingencies; because that's just an irresponsible act towards the kids (i.e. bringing them into the world and let them suffer - that's cruelty).

Third, I want to enjoy more of my blissful marriage first - enjoying life with just the two of us first without having kids in the picture and "destroying" the honeymoon period; afterall, once the kids comes into the picture, time management would be harder and the lovey dovey time would get shorter and interrupted.

Fourth, I know what I lack - expressing emotions. Hence, this would be a problem when raising kids. I might be too strict a father and too autonomous in my dealings with kids that I might appear bordering towards a lack of love, care and concern for them though that's not really true. This I will have to learn when the time comes. Even though I am technically an "uncle" now, whenever I see my young 2-year old nieces and nephews, I don't know how to react and play with them. Kids and INTJs just don't click...
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But having said all that, I do want to have kids; I think the world would do better with more intelligent people so it's my duty to ensure the supply of intellects.
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But more importantly, I need a partner that can complement me in the skills that I lack for raising the ideal family I want, such as expressing love to the kids and taking care of the emotional side of things.

[plushbug]

I knew by the time I hit puberty at age 11, that I loathed babies, and wanted no part of having children with exactly the same ferocity that I would want no part of being on the receiving end of slavery or a hostage-taking--ie., anyone trying to put me there would either die trying, or have to kill me, to escape that fate. As I recall saying at the time, I wouldn't have children for much the same reasons that I wouldn't commit a crime that would land me a 30 year jail sentence.

Forty years later, I feel exactly the same way about it!
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No regrets, and no question in my mind that it was the proper course for me.

[Takeru]

Children? SURE! Well not now but when I am done with what I want to do and settle down. Other than that, no. It is a burden to fall in love with someone. It is a burden to have children at this age. It is a burden when you haven't even finish your studies yet.

It terrifies me that people have kids when they hit 16-18... I mean the child. I mean I have no problem if people want to but... not for me... not going to be doing that until I am sound.

[Hadugh]

No thank you to children; they infuriate me.

[themuzicman]

	Originally Posted by daydreamer To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	i must be missing the obvious - why wouldnt you expect as great a level of success?

Because boys don't have a great a potential for life changing consequences.

[escapist11]

No children please! Not any of my own at least.
There are too many children who don't have families and I think I'm going to adopt instead. I'd like to adopt them once the pass the diaper phase and are somewhat old enough to begin to take care of themselves.

Besides, I'm kind of a small person and I cannot image myself passing a baby. I don't want a c-section scar either.

I'll just adopt. Give those kids who don't have homes a home.

[curiousgeorge01]

I love kids...not so sure I want my own though. I like playing with other people's kids, I find them adorable. But if I have my own, that means I have to see them grow up
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.

[JustMel]

	Originally Posted by curiousgeorge01 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I love kids...not so sure I want my own though. I like playing with other people's kids, I find them adorable. But if I have my own, that means I have to see them grow up To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. .

Stephen insists that someone should be able to invent a "little girl helmet" that he can put on the kids when they're little so they won't grow up. I keep telling him it's a pipe dream but he doesn't listen.

[Takeru]

Originally Posted by escapist11 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

No children please! Not any of my own at least. There are too many children who don't have families and I think I'm going to adopt instead. I'd like to adopt them once the pass the diaper phase and are somewhat old enough to begin to take care of themselves. Besides, I'm kind of a small person and I cannot image myself passing a baby. I don't want a c-section scar either. I'll just adopt. Give those kids who don't have homes a home.

Adopting sounds kind of nice too. It sort of sounds fun to help the little ones in shelters.