Atheists: How do you find meaning in death?

**Squirelznflight** · 06-22-2009, 08:26 PM

Seeing the "Atheists: How do you find meaning in life?" thread got me thinking about this. From the view of there being nothing after death--or at least no 'heaven' or 'hell'--how do you think of death? Are you afraid, anxious, or at peace? Do you find the lack of faith in lives besides the current sad, unsettling, or comforting? Those are only my suggestions; clearly other users will have diverse views.

I am an atheist. I lack belief in life after death. When I look at death, I see only the end of existence. When I die, I will simply cease to live and my body will be buried. From there it will decompose and break down into compounds as the natural world sees fit. The atoms of my body will become part of future organisms--bacteria, plants, the cute and fluffy bunnies that will eat those plants, and the people who eat the rabbits until the humans die again. And so it goes.

I like the idea of that immortality quite a bit more than anything in any religion. As Edward and Alfonse discover in Fullmetal Alchemist, "One is all. All is one. We are the world. The world is us." I like this cycle. Its beauty and sense of warmth are so meaningful because they are simple facts that I can know with certainty that will occur even if, by some fluke, there is some kind of God or god or gods after all. Even when this planet's life has ceased to exist, our atoms will float in the cosmos as parts of planets or stars, or as simple, humble journeyors that simply exist.

It is a strange way of looking at it, perhaps, and one that others might find depressing, but it works for me. Where others in fear might summon faith or steel their nerves, I think of this and feel peace.

This is not a thread on debating religion. It is about how you look at death, and how you have looked at death before, and what you think the point of it all is, and why you feel compelled to speculate.

And I'm not closing the floor to religious folks, of course. (As if I could!) Providing your views or your views on our views or your views on our views on your views is by all means welcome if done civilly and in the pursuit of mutual understanding. (That means no overly aggressive saving of souls, ye saints.
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)***

***Note: I am trying and failing to be funny.

What are your views on death?

**xev** · 06-22-2009, 08:55 PM

I guess I just accept the inevitability of death, while maintaining a strong desire to live. I can't say that I've contemplated a oneness with the earthworms that will decompose my body after I'm gone. I have wondered more about what kind of mark or legacy or effect I will leave behind for the rest of humanity.

**Zsych** · 06-22-2009, 08:56 PM

Your suggestion seems to imply a sort of remaining consciousness, a continuation of existence despite the breakdown of your body. If you have no soul, your body stops functioning and your brain stops working, then there is no more you of any kind. The matter that constituted your body is no longer yours, or otherwise identified with you.

I'm not an atheist myself really. But assuming that I thought I was organic machinery. I think I'd just destroy myself, rather than maintain a needless existence, since there would be no real chance of gain. Or I might choose to destroy other systems like myself, which I would find valueless, for what amusement that would provide me... But it would be very iffy, since I would not evaluate my emotions as having any real value in that situation. I find nothing to be impressed by in an ordinary human existence. What I see of people, I am not impressed by. But I have seen strange things in my life, and I think there is more to us than just an existence in the universe that will have no significant long term effect on anything.

I believe that at least part of me is more than just this flesh. However, I don't really expect to retain memories and my current view of things, even if part of my existence continues after this body dies. At the idea of death, I feel loss more with respect to family, and others who care about me, and who I care about, than with respect to myself. I value the people they are, and I think that part of what makes them those people to me, will no longer be, in time.

**Squirelznflight** · 06-22-2009, 09:09 PM

^^^I do not mean to imply that I remain aware of what is happening to my respective atoms. I believe in no second consciousness whatsoever. I just think it's neat that my body goes through biological recycling.

And xev: Yes, that is probably the only part of 'us' that remains after death--the accomplishments we leave behind. It's remarkable to look at how all the little legacies of scientists have added up to culminate in systems of knowledge.

**Night Runner** · 06-22-2009, 09:11 PM

Death has no meaning. It's just another part of the life cycle - nothing more, nothing less. I have always accepted the fact that someday I would die. This ... acceptance made my worldviews slightly fatalistic and set me even further back from my peers. It also makes me regret that I never had a childhood... On the other hand, I view each moment as unique and I try to live in the moment and enjoy every sandwich. As a famous atheist Terry Pratchett once wrote, "You only get one chance, and then you die."

Of course, my life isn't all too glamorous and if they made it into a movie, it would probably be something like "Stranger than fiction" but it's a life. It's mine. It's all mine. And I wouldn't have it any other way.

**Zsych** · 06-22-2009, 09:14 PM

You should be more aware of the countless great minds, whose achievements have not lasted. What achievements you have can easily vanish. One major war (for example), and enough data destroyed, could fairly screw things over and eliminate any real contribution you had.

(I'm going to stop myself from going more negative than that)

I personally don't assign much value to emotions. Just because something feels good, doesn't actually give it any real meaning. I think taking drugs is a decent example of this point. You may feel that things are awesome, but really, nothing significant has changed beyond your mental state.

**Squirelznflight** · 06-22-2009, 09:21 PM

^That's almost funny, in a morbid kind of way... I do realize that information can be lost quicker than you can say "Launch the nukes", and that's precisely why I spoke of what has survived. I'm surprised we didn't all regress to the Stone Age halfway into this recorded history. I suppose the trick is making the information breed like rabbits and infest the world like cockroaches so it has the greatest chance of survival and provides the most benefit for whatever time it is around.

**Synchronicity** · 06-22-2009, 09:28 PM

I believe oblivion follows death. That is, the cessation of all thought and being. To vanish, leaving behind only an empty shell of a body.

I find the thought comforting. Were I a believing man I would be frightened of heaven and hell in equal measure. Not because of what I might find there, but because it will never end. What do you imagine heaven as being like? It doesn't really matter, because all you can do is pray that whatever you'll be doing there, you can enjoy it for a hundred billion years, because after that much time you will still be no closer to the end of your stay there than when you started.

It seems logical that if we do not know existence before we are born, we won't know existence after we are dead.

**Wired** · 06-22-2009, 10:59 PM

As far as I'm concerned, it is what it is. Then again, I'm either a very weak atheist or a very strong agnostic. In short, I'm not that concerned with what happens after death.

If I have to think about it, I believe that I simply will cease to be. It makes much more sense (to me) to spend my mental energy thinking about what I'm doing while I'm alive.

Odd that I've never really fretted much over post-life reality.

**skycloud86** · 06-23-2009, 04:04 AM

Personally, I don't think much about what happens after death. If there is an afterlife, we'll find out when we die. If there isn't, it's not like we're going to notice.

**rhane** · 06-23-2009, 07:22 AM

	Originally Posted by skycloud86 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Personally, I don't think much about what happens after death. If there is an afterlife, we'll find out when we die. If there isn't, it's not like we're going to notice.

I agree. I'm not necessarily an atheist but I'm not sure thinking about death is going to help me out in my daily life.

**Kris** · 06-23-2009, 07:41 AM

The only meaning in death for me is simply the end of my existence. I tend to not dwell on it too much, as personally I find it to be a bleak outlook. However, this has actually encouraged me to take control of my own happiness and enjoyment of life in recent times for fear of squandering what precious time I have. I really don't care for the legacy I leave behind since I will not exist and hence obviously can have no perception of it whatsoever.

**Jennifer** · 06-23-2009, 11:24 AM

	Originally Posted by Squirelznflight To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	This is not a thread on debating religion. It is about how you look at death, and how you have looked at death before, and what you think the point of it all is, and why you feel compelled to speculate. [/SIZE] What are your views on death?

Death is nothingness so there's nothing to look at.

**Alex** · 06-23-2009, 12:40 PM

Since I'm philosophically closest to what you would call an absurdist, I sort of view death as fair dues in exchange for life. Everything about our existence is, more or less, silly. I think it's a great thing that every human being attempts to derive or create meaning to his own life (which is why I can't really understand nihilism), but on the whole - our existence, our evolution, our arbitrary means of organization and taxonomy - it's all almost comical. There's no inherent, absolute meaning to all of it, but hey - I'm glad as hell I got to be here. I'm going to make the most of it. I'm going to try to live as long as I can (provided that life is still comfortable and enjoyable - as soon as I'm unable to hold my waste or remember my own child's name, please kill me).

But, death is simply another funny detail of an already funny universe. We could just as easily have evolved to sustain our lives for 200, 300 years - perhaps a millennium. The fact that we're typically only going to last somewhere between 65 - 100 years of age is so very random. But I've accepted that it is what it is, there's no fighting it. Every man owes a death.

So rather than kick and scream, or try to "cheat" (by fantasizing that life continues after death), I treat it like a person who wins a luxury vacation. He wasn't expecting it, he didn't necessarily do anything to deserve it, but he was glad he had it, and he accepts when it's over.

**Prunesquallor** · 06-23-2009, 01:12 PM

There is no meaning. Nor is there need for creating any.

**Cicatrix** · 06-23-2009, 01:50 PM

Thought I would post a quote from an Australian figure Phillip Adams. Although an athiest, one of his favorite subjects is religion. The third paragraph very nicely sums up my feelings on death.

Originally Posted by Phillip Adams

The great problem in discovering that you don’t believe in god is you feel an intense, an all-pervasive sense of loneliness.

And when I found that I didn’t need to believe in him, I still felt a great sense of desolation and a high degree of fear.

I’ve always understood the religious impulse, the great overwhelming fear of death, of annihilation which is a part of most of it, and a desperate need to find a meaning in a universe which really doesn’t have one.

If you want to know what happens after, think about what happened before; infinite, infinite nothingness. We’ve all been dead. We live briefly, we go back to the same state. Why can’t people see it’s as simple as that?

**MrDoom** · 06-23-2009, 03:16 PM

It'll happen.

**Moriarty** · 06-23-2009, 04:44 PM

	Originally Posted by Synchronicity To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It seems logical that if we do not know existence before we are born, we won't know existence after we are dead.

This is my thought as well. I think being dead will be just like not being born. At any rate, we'll either find out or we won't!
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**azelismia** · 06-23-2009, 08:41 PM

why should there be a meaning to it? I expect nothingness. the only thing I fear of death is pain or suffering in dying. after that i expect it's just going to be nothing.

**Airius** · 06-23-2009, 08:49 PM

I've been all over the board with my religious beliefs, however in all these years I've never truly been able to hold onto a strong belief of an afterlife. Albeit it is a comforting thought, it doesn't make much sense to me. God or no God; I believe that I'll fall into a dream-like state and travel into oblivion from there on.

**Dil** · 06-23-2009, 09:51 PM

"For the philosopher, death is really the one compensation for the calamity of birth" - Seneca

**Professor Bard** · 06-23-2009, 11:38 PM

I echo many of the comments here, in spirit at least.

As (what the world would call an atheist), I cannot find meaning in death. I can only find meaning in life.

Death makes life sweeter (but only if you can ignore the perpetual acidic tang of fear).

**zibber** · 06-23-2009, 11:52 PM

Meaning in death, meaning in death, meaning in death..

Sorry, none.

	Originally Posted by Squirelznflight To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The atoms of my body will become part of future organisms--bacteria, plants, the cute and fluffy bunnies that will eat those plants, and the people who eat the rabbits until the humans die again. And so it goes. I like the idea of that immortality quite a bit more than anything in any religion.

That's nice, but how is that of relevance to dead, nonexistent you? Must there be some story like this to ease the anxiety of living, forward-looking, death-fearing you at this moment? Does what happen "after death" (
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) change anything about this moment? Should it? (Hint: there is no "it".)

**dofe** · 06-24-2009, 12:16 AM

	Originally Posted by azelismia To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	why should there be a meaning to it? I expect nothingness. the only thing I fear of death is pain or suffering in dying. after that i expect it's just going to be nothing.

That's my take as well. I'm more worried about the physical suffering before death than of death itself.

**Alex** · 06-24-2009, 05:22 AM

I think what I fear most is "missing" everyone. I know that's kind of silly, since once I'm actually dead, I won't miss anything - but if I'm in a situation where I know death is imminent (i.e., on my deathbed), my worst fears will probably be 1) watching the handful of people I know who would grieve over my impending death suffer and 2) the thought that I will never see them again, even if I'll have no actual knowledge of their absence in death.

Heh. Kind of chokes me up just writing about it.

06-22-2009, 08:26 PM	#1
Squirelznflight Member [08%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 346	Seeing the "Atheists: How do you find meaning in life?" thread got me thinking about this. From the view of there being nothing after death--or at least no 'heaven' or 'hell'--how do you think of death? Are you afraid, anxious, or at peace? Do you find the lack of faith in lives besides the current sad, unsettling, or comforting? Those are only my suggestions; clearly other users will have diverse views. I am an atheist. I lack belief in life after death. When I look at death, I see only the end of existence. When I die, I will simply cease to live and my body will be buried. From there it will decompose and break down into compounds as the natural world sees fit. The atoms of my body will become part of future organisms--bacteria, plants, the cute and fluffy bunnies that will eat those plants, and the people who eat the rabbits until the humans die again. And so it goes. I like the idea of that immortality quite a bit more than anything in any religion. As Edward and Alfonse discover in Fullmetal Alchemist, "One is all. All is one. We are the world. The world is us." I like this cycle. Its beauty and sense of warmth are so meaningful because they are simple facts that I can know with certainty that will occur even if, by some fluke, there is some kind of God or god or gods after all. Even when this planet's life has ceased to exist, our atoms will float in the cosmos as parts of planets or stars, or as simple, humble journeyors that simply exist. It is a strange way of looking at it, perhaps, and one that others might find depressing, but it works for me. Where others in fear might summon faith or steel their nerves, I think of this and feel peace. This is not a thread on debating religion. It is about how you look at death, and how you have looked at death before, and what you think the point of it all is, and why you feel compelled to speculate. And I'm not closing the floor to religious folks, of course. (As if I could!) Providing your views or your views on our views or your views on our views on your views is by all means welcome if done civilly and in the pursuit of mutual understanding. (That means no overly aggressive saving of souls, ye saints. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. )* *Note: I am trying and failing to be funny. What are your views on death?
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06-22-2009, 08:55 PM	#2
xev New Member [01%] MBTI: intj Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 73	I guess I just accept the inevitability of death, while maintaining a strong desire to live. I can't say that I've contemplated a oneness with the earthworms that will decompose my body after I'm gone. I have wondered more about what kind of mark or legacy or effect I will leave behind for the rest of humanity.
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06-22-2009, 08:56 PM	#3
Zsych Core Member [309%] MBTI: XNTX Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 12,366	Your suggestion seems to imply a sort of remaining consciousness, a continuation of existence despite the breakdown of your body. If you have no soul, your body stops functioning and your brain stops working, then there is no more you of any kind. The matter that constituted your body is no longer yours, or otherwise identified with you. I'm not an atheist myself really. But assuming that I thought I was organic machinery. I think I'd just destroy myself, rather than maintain a needless existence, since there would be no real chance of gain. Or I might choose to destroy other systems like myself, which I would find valueless, for what amusement that would provide me... But it would be very iffy, since I would not evaluate my emotions as having any real value in that situation. I find nothing to be impressed by in an ordinary human existence. What I see of people, I am not impressed by. But I have seen strange things in my life, and I think there is more to us than just an existence in the universe that will have no significant long term effect on anything. I believe that at least part of me is more than just this flesh. However, I don't really expect to retain memories and my current view of things, even if part of my existence continues after this body dies. At the idea of death, I feel loss more with respect to family, and others who care about me, and who I care about, than with respect to myself. I value the people they are, and I think that part of what makes them those people to me, will no longer be, in time.
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06-22-2009, 09:09 PM	#4
Squirelznflight Member [08%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 346	^^^I do not mean to imply that I remain aware of what is happening to my respective atoms. I believe in no second consciousness whatsoever. I just think it's neat that my body goes through biological recycling. And xev: Yes, that is probably the only part of 'us' that remains after death--the accomplishments we leave behind. It's remarkable to look at how all the little legacies of scientists have added up to culminate in systems of knowledge.
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06-22-2009, 09:11 PM	#5
Night Runner Core Member [148%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,931	Death has no meaning. It's just another part of the life cycle - nothing more, nothing less. I have always accepted the fact that someday I would die. This ... acceptance made my worldviews slightly fatalistic and set me even further back from my peers. It also makes me regret that I never had a childhood... On the other hand, I view each moment as unique and I try to live in the moment and enjoy every sandwich. As a famous atheist Terry Pratchett once wrote, "You only get one chance, and then you die." Of course, my life isn't all too glamorous and if they made it into a movie, it would probably be something like "Stranger than fiction" but it's a life. It's mine. It's all mine. And I wouldn't have it any other way.
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06-22-2009, 09:14 PM	#6
Zsych Core Member [309%] MBTI: XNTX Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 12,366	You should be more aware of the countless great minds, whose achievements have not lasted. What achievements you have can easily vanish. One major war (for example), and enough data destroyed, could fairly screw things over and eliminate any real contribution you had. (I'm going to stop myself from going more negative than that) I personally don't assign much value to emotions. Just because something feels good, doesn't actually give it any real meaning. I think taking drugs is a decent example of this point. You may feel that things are awesome, but really, nothing significant has changed beyond your mental state.
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06-22-2009, 09:21 PM	#7
Squirelznflight Member [08%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 346	^That's almost funny, in a morbid kind of way... I do realize that information can be lost quicker than you can say "Launch the nukes", and that's precisely why I spoke of what has survived. I'm surprised we didn't all regress to the Stone Age halfway into this recorded history. I suppose the trick is making the information breed like rabbits and infest the world like cockroaches so it has the greatest chance of survival and provides the most benefit for whatever time it is around.
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06-22-2009, 09:28 PM	#8
Synchronicity Core Member [366%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 14,657	I believe oblivion follows death. That is, the cessation of all thought and being. To vanish, leaving behind only an empty shell of a body. I find the thought comforting. Were I a believing man I would be frightened of heaven and hell in equal measure. Not because of what I might find there, but because it will never end. What do you imagine heaven as being like? It doesn't really matter, because all you can do is pray that whatever you'll be doing there, you can enjoy it for a hundred billion years, because after that much time you will still be no closer to the end of your stay there than when you started. It seems logical that if we do not know existence before we are born, we won't know existence after we are dead.
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06-22-2009, 10:59 PM	#9
Wired Member [05%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 217	As far as I'm concerned, it is what it is. Then again, I'm either a very weak atheist or a very strong agnostic. In short, I'm not that concerned with what happens after death. If I have to think about it, I believe that I simply will cease to be. It makes much more sense (to me) to spend my mental energy thinking about what I'm doing while I'm alive. Odd that I've never really fretted much over post-life reality.
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06-23-2009, 04:04 AM	#10
skycloud86 Member [07%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 287	Personally, I don't think much about what happens after death. If there is an afterlife, we'll find out when we die. If there isn't, it's not like we're going to notice.
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06-23-2009, 07:41 AM	#12
Kris Member [27%] MBTI: ENTP Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,116	The only meaning in death for me is simply the end of my existence. I tend to not dwell on it too much, as personally I find it to be a bleak outlook. However, this has actually encouraged me to take control of my own happiness and enjoyment of life in recent times for fear of squandering what precious time I have. I really don't care for the legacy I leave behind since I will not exist and hence obviously can have no perception of it whatsoever.
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06-23-2009, 12:40 PM	#14
Alex Member [05%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 229	Since I'm philosophically closest to what you would call an absurdist, I sort of view death as fair dues in exchange for life. Everything about our existence is, more or less, silly. I think it's a great thing that every human being attempts to derive or create meaning to his own life (which is why I can't really understand nihilism), but on the whole - our existence, our evolution, our arbitrary means of organization and taxonomy - it's all almost comical. There's no inherent, absolute meaning to all of it, but hey - I'm glad as hell I got to be here. I'm going to make the most of it. I'm going to try to live as long as I can (provided that life is still comfortable and enjoyable - as soon as I'm unable to hold my waste or remember my own child's name, please kill me). But, death is simply another funny detail of an already funny universe. We could just as easily have evolved to sustain our lives for 200, 300 years - perhaps a millennium. The fact that we're typically only going to last somewhere between 65 - 100 years of age is so very random. But I've accepted that it is what it is, there's no fighting it. Every man owes a death. So rather than kick and scream, or try to "cheat" (by fantasizing that life continues after death), I treat it like a person who wins a luxury vacation. He wasn't expecting it, he didn't necessarily do anything to deserve it, but he was glad he had it, and he accepts when it's over.
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06-23-2009, 01:12 PM	#15
Prunesquallor Veteran Member [66%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,647	There is no meaning. Nor is there need for creating any.
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06-23-2009, 03:16 PM	#17
MrDoom Member [18%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 743	It'll happen.
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06-23-2009, 08:41 PM	#19
azelismia Core Member [166%] MBTI: INTj Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 6,657	why should there be a meaning to it? I expect nothingness. the only thing I fear of death is pain or suffering in dying. after that i expect it's just going to be nothing.
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06-23-2009, 08:49 PM	#20
Airius Member [17%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 684	I've been all over the board with my religious beliefs, however in all these years I've never truly been able to hold onto a strong belief of an afterlife. Albeit it is a comforting thought, it doesn't make much sense to me. God or no God; I believe that I'll fall into a dream-like state and travel into oblivion from there on.
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06-23-2009, 09:51 PM	#21
Dil Member [02%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 112	"For the philosopher, death is really the one compensation for the calamity of birth" - Seneca
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06-23-2009, 11:38 PM	#22
Professor Bard New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 22	I echo many of the comments here, in spirit at least. As (what the world would call an atheist), I cannot find meaning in death. I can only find meaning in life. Death makes life sweeter (but only if you can ignore the perpetual acidic tang of fear).
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06-24-2009, 05:22 AM	#25
Alex Member [05%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 229	I think what I fear most is "missing" everyone. I know that's kind of silly, since once I'm actually dead, I won't miss anything - but if I'm in a situation where I know death is imminent (i.e., on my deathbed), my worst fears will probably be 1) watching the handful of people I know who would grieve over my impending death suffer and 2) the thought that I will never see them again, even if I'll have no actual knowledge of their absence in death. Heh. Kind of chokes me up just writing about it.
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