[Learning]

I've read that relationships can be very difficult for INTJ's because of the rational approach taken to life in general. It's no wonder that it would be difficult to choose a marriage partner since according to what I've read, INTJ's approach the matter "scientifically"...then there's the whole striving for perfection which I'm sure this area is no exception to. Marriage seems like such a huge decision. I'm just curious for those who are married, how did you go about making that decision? How much was "feeling" involved, and how much was pure logic? Responses are very much appreciated
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Thanks.

If anyone cares to post about possible "committment issues" INTJ's may have, those thoughts would be hepful as well.

[danalaina]

	Originally Posted by Learning To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How much was "feeling" involved, and how much was pure logic?

i tend to choose my men pretty carefully, though it might not be obvious that there's any screening taking place. any man i'd consider for a serious relationship is going to be measured against a standard, and i've been absolutely ruthless about sticking to it.

however, marriage is an utterly romantic notion to me. it's mostly contrary (i believe) to our biology to be totally monogamous, so the idea of binding oneself to another person ostensibly for life is, i think, the ultimate expression of optimism. it may be socially acceptable/mandated, but i can't honestly call it a rational thing. so...while i take great care in screening, once the standard is met satisfactorily, emotion pretty much takes over. without that emotion, it wouldn't really be a marriage, by my definition.

**

i can't say i've noticed any real commitment issues being an INTJ. i tend to act without fear or much hesitation in the realm of relationships...it's been a pet study of mine for so long that i feel educated enough to act with confidence. i'd say that being INTJ has actually aided me in this regard. i learn quickly, and i can remember and apply knowledge. i think that gives us an advantage when it comes to picking a mate that will be well-suited.

for a truly non-social INTJ this might be a little harder, as exposure to people is necessary for this winnowing process. i'm not particularly social these days, but i've had enough brief 'E' periods to get what i need.

the only real relationship issue i've noticed is that i'm very willing to pack it in when i see things aren't working out well and don't believe they will change for the better. i don't arrive at that conclusion quickly or easily, but once there, i don't hesitate to call it quits. some would view this as giving up or perhaps taking too much initiative in a situation where i'm only half responsible. i just see it as being practical...perhaps that really is the major INTJ fault in relationships.

**

as a side note, i'm currently happily married to a very mellow Exxx. this is my second go. i married once in my mid twenties for all the wrong reasons - pleasing parents, social pressures, etc. because of those pressures, i was unknowingly ignoring some very definite warning signs from the guy. it's the one time in my relationship history that i let external factors play that much of a role in my decision-making, and it was an awful mistake.

my instincts about which people are good for me are strong and aren't often wrong...if you've got this same instinct, don't ignore it.

[rwyatt365]

As far as how I approached marriage is concerned, I must say that it was a purely practical decision for me (not completely logical, but very practical). I've been married twice now (divorced once). I married both times because I had been with both of them (at separate times, of course) for a number of years before getting married and it just "made sense" to make it official. Not to mention the economic and social benefits that go along with being married.

I can't say that I had, or have, any romantic notions about marriage. Those women that I have known in the past that I got that tingly, butterfly-in-the-stomach, "OMG I think I'm in love" feeling about never reciprocated, so I never married the "love of my life". My relationships have been more of the "we get along and have a few laughs" variety where the "fireworks" were few and far between. Consequently, reason and practicality were more of a driving factor (occasionally lust was involved) than anything else.

I can only speak for myself as I don’t know any INTJ's IRL. I've never had any "commitment issues" in any relationship that I've had. My only "issue" there was getting started. An introverted nature and natural shyness has always been my greatest hurdle. But once surmounted, I will forge ahead. If the feeling is mutual then I have no problem making a commitment to get together, stay together and offer marriage (if it gets that far).

Like danalaina, if I see things going sour, I also have no problems with saying so and "exiting, stage left". I don’t do that hastily (usually it takes several years to get to that point), and I don’t do it without thinking it through thoroughly. And I don’t shirk my responsibilities if it does come to parting company (my ex-wife got some handsome alimony payments until she re-married, and I still take care of my only natural son), so I'm not a dead-beat.

[Santana28]

Originally Posted by rwyatt365 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

As far as how I approached marriage is concerned, I must say that it was a purely practical decision for me (not completely logical, but very practical). I've been married twice now (divorced once). I married both times because I had been with both of them (at separate times, of course) for a number of years before getting married and it just "made sense" to make it official. Not to mention the economic and social benefits that go along with being married. [/COLOR]

ditto.

basically, from a financial standpoint we were both struggling and i suggested that we get married in order to share the burden. i wanted a quiet elopement, and i had him agree with me that if things didnt work out that we would just quietly get a divorce and go our seperate ways.

of course, it didnt work out that way. haha...all the logic in the world goes to hell when you're dealing with an irrational person.

now i'm pretty much trapped in a marriage that is essentially in name only. i dont have the financial means to get out on my own at the moment, or afford a divorce lawyer... and he refuses to even consider the word, despite the fact that we haze *zero* relationship other than living arrangements and joint bank accounts. I've learned my lesson for sure!

NEVER compromise on your beliefs!

[Pkz]

If two people truly love oneanother, why would they require something so arbitrary such as marriage to bind them together? I mean, if they do really need marriage to truly be together, then they shouldn't be together in the first place.

[PortInStorm]

For me marriage came from very deep feeling, but I was pretty careful about investigating his potential for "Husband-hood" ie. how he did/did not meet certain criteria. I specifically looked for qualities that would be good for the long haul, not for "fireworks". When my husband came along I found that he didn't have any really debilitating problems (drug problems, major family issues, money misuse etc), and that he was fun to be with. Then when he put himself out to care for me in small ways, that was it.

I decided on marriage because I wanted to be "one" with another person, and make a commitment (and it came in handy to keep me in this relationship during the hard times. If I had left because there was no "piece of paper" as you say, to make it difficult to leave, I would have regretted it. I wouldn't be enjoying what I have now. It protects me from my own tendency towards running away from problems). I'm not sure I believe in feeling as one anymore. But I am very grateful for the companionship- I think that that's the only thing that lasts, as feelings fluctuate.

[1OFMANY]

First off, love is an action shown to another, not a state of "feeling/being".

Second, anyone who says you don't need to be married to prove your devotion is lying or a commitment pussy.

That is all :P

[Danisty]

	Originally Posted by Pkz To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If two people truly love oneanother, why would they require something so arbitrary such as marriage to bind them together? I mean, if they do really need marriage to truly be together, then they shouldn't be together in the first place.

The marriage license, in a legal sense, is basically a conglomeration of a lot of practical laws that two people who are committed might find useful. I can understand your point of two people not needing marriage if they are committed to each other, but your point that getting married proves they aren't committed doesn't really make any sense.

[AnandaMeansBliss]

Yea I am going to have to agree with Danistry on both points. Perhaps you could tell us why someone who says you don't need to be married is lying or a commitment pussy?

[Learning]

	Originally Posted by danalaina To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	however, marriage is an utterly romantic notion to me. i without that emotion, it wouldn't really be a marriage, by my definition. my instincts about which people are good for me are strong and aren't often wrong...if you've got this same instinct, don't ignore it.

I agree about marriage being romantic. (I guess committment & being chosen is romantic?)

Yes, feelings & emotions are part of being human, and I value them, too. (I'm sure we all think passion is pretty great, right?)

Can you describe what your "gut" feelings are like?

[karen]

The decision was pretty easy for me. I really didn't care about whether or not my husband and I were married, but I knew it mattered to him. In fact, we were married within two months of our first date, he figured that since we were in love why beat around the bush? I figured 'eh, if it doesn't work out there is always divorce'. It has worked out though, so its no big deal. When I need time to myself, I just say I'm doing housework and he leaves me alone, afraid of being assigned a job.

[Pkz]

	Originally Posted by Danisty To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The marriage license, in a legal sense, is basically a conglomeration of a lot of practical laws that two people who are committed might find useful. I can understand your point of two people not needing marriage if they are committed to each other, but your point that getting married proves they aren't committed doesn't really make any sense.

I never said marriage prooves non-commitment, I'd absolutely get married myself, but for practical purposes only, and thats the only real reason I see to get married. My statement was more targeted towards the feeling/relationship part of marriage and not directed towards the practical parts.

[Wapiti]

Originally Posted by Learning To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I've read that relationships can be very difficult for INTJ's because of the rational approach taken to life in general. It's no wonder that it would be difficult to choose a marriage partner since according to what I've read, INTJ's approach the matter "scientifically"...then there's the whole striving for perfection which I'm sure this area is no exception to. Marriage seems like such a huge decision. I'm just curious for those who are married, how did you go about making that decision? How much was "feeling" involved, and how much was pure logic? Responses are very much appreciated To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Thanks. If anyone cares to post about possible "committment issues" INTJ's may have, those thoughts would be hepful as well.

I've been married for over 13 years now. I sure wish I could remember what I was thinking back then. The decision must have been made largely on feeling - in some ways if the present me was standing next to myself back then, I'd probably kick my own ass, but thats looking backwards from here. Don't take me wrong, my marriage isn't a complete hell. I believe it is and has been a good learning experience and will definitely continue to be but sometimes I wish I would have thought a little more above the belt. I can definitely say that today I am a better person for it and glad, almost proud I've stuck with it. I have definitely learned (albeit the hard way.) It is and has been worth it. The hardest part for me has been me not knowing how desperately I need my space, my time away - this has been the hardest part of the relationship so far.

As far as commitment, I have no issues myself. Once I made my decision to marry, I've stuck by that decision. Wavered in that decision very little.

	Originally Posted by Santana28 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	now i'm pretty much trapped in a marriage that is essentially in name only. i dont have the financial means to get out on my own at the moment, or afford a divorce lawyer... and he refuses to even consider the word, despite the fact that we haze *zero* relationship other than living arrangements and joint bank accounts. I've learned my lesson for sure!

Now that sucks, what more can I say.

	Originally Posted by Santana28 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	NEVER compromise on your beliefs!

I agree completely.

[Colette]

	Originally Posted by whyme1234 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I've been married for over 13 years now. I sure wish I could remember what I was thinking back then. The decision must have been made largely on feeling - in some ways if the present me was standing next to myself back then, I'd probably kick my own ass, but thats looking backwards from here.

Yeah that was pretty much me, too. My marriage decision happened a long time ago, when I was a lot younger and more naive, and I have no idea if I'd have made even a vaguely similar decision about the person, based on what I know and who I am today. My decision was also influenced by factors extraneous to the relationship, so in a sense I suppose that 'muddied the waters'.

However I think I can say that even as a strong INTJ I never treated the process in a purely 'rational' sense, to the extent of regarding it like a shopping expedition for a new car (doing my research, ticking the boxes, assessing suitability, etc). It was based on attraction and emotion - my desire simply to 'be' with the other person, and more importantly, not to be without them. In hindsight I don't see this as a particularly helpful basis on which to make such a critical and life-changing decision, but there you go; what is done is done, and I can never take the decision back, or its consequences for me now.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Originally Posted by Learning To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I've read that relationships can be very difficult for INTJ's because of the rational approach taken to life in general. It's no wonder that it would be difficult to choose a marriage partner since according to what I've read, INTJ's approach the matter "scientifically"...then there's the whole striving for perfection which I'm sure this area is no exception to. Marriage seems like such a huge decision. I'm just curious for those who are married, how did you go about making that decision? How much was "feeling" involved, and how much was pure logic? Responses are very much appreciated To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Thanks. If anyone cares to post about possible "committment issues" INTJ's may have, those thoughts would be hepful as well.

I'll refer you to the thread '
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'.

[PortInStorm]

I think what this thread assumes is that people don't change after you've married them, and that the relationships' downfall was due to a faulty decision process, or that we're just no good at relationships, or that our partners are the 'wrong' type. Change may just be where most of the trouble comes in. I know I changed a huge amount when I went back to school around year 4 of our marriage, and I used to think that as long as you were pretty involved in each others' doings, that you wouldn't 'grow apart', ie change from what your partner married you for. But now I have no idea how to prevent that. Sometimes it's a positive change though...

[Learning]

	Originally Posted by karen To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	In fact, we were married within two months of our first date, he figured that since we were in love why beat around the bush?

Do you mind if I ask how long it's been? (Just to see if the responses differ for those who've been married for shorter/longer periods of time.)

Originally Posted by Colette To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My decision was also influenced by factors extraneous to the relationship, so in a sense I suppose that 'muddied the waters'. It was based on attraction and emotion - my desire simply to 'be' with the other person, and more importantly, not to be without them. In hindsight I don't see this as a particularly helpful basis on which to make such a critical and life-changing decision, but there you go; what is done is done, and I can never take the decision back, or its consequences for me now.

That's what gets me...because emotions vary so much, but at the same time people don't seem to be able to feel loved without them. Are you able to revisit those emotions, and if so does that help renew the relationship at times?

Originally Posted by 2ndtimestudent To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think what this thread assumes is that people don't change after you've married them, and that the relationships' downfall was due to a faulty decision process, or that we're just no good at relationships, or that our partners are the 'wrong' type. Change may just be where most of the trouble comes in. I know I changed a huge amount when I went back to school around year 4 of our marriage, and I used to think that as long as you were pretty involved in each others' doings, that you wouldn't 'grow apart', ie change from what your partner married you for. But now I have no idea how to prevent that. Sometimes it's a positive change though...

So, basically expect change...and be flexible? Sounds challenging, but also like you said it can be "a positive change".

[PortInStorm]

	Originally Posted by Learning To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So, basically expect change...and be flexible? Sounds challenging, but also like you said it can be "a positive change".

Yep- It also has the benefit of added hope- if the person you or your partner aren't everything you wanted, know that it can happen. It is challenging, but it also circumvents the endless "I've lived with him/her for 6,7,8 years to get to know everything about him/her before I feel comfortable making a commitment". Everything you need to know about the [I]foundation[I] of a person's personality can be seen in much less time than that, and knowing the finer details is of little use because you never know how those details will change in the future (due to circumstances beyond control, etc.).

[Wapiti]

	Originally Posted by 2ndtimestudent To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Change may just be where most of the trouble comes in.

I think that change is a big part of it as well. I know that I am not the same person I use to be.

	Originally Posted by Learning To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Are you able to revisit those emotions, and if so does that help renew the relationship at times?

I was just thinking that earlier today. For me it does help to try to revisit those emotions. I get a new sense of hope when I think that over 13 years ago I felt that this person was worth spending the rest of my life with.

[Colette]

	Originally Posted by whyme1234 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I was just thinking that earlier today. For me it does help to try to revisit those emotions. I get a new sense of hope when I think that over 13 years ago I felt that this person was worth spending the rest of my life with.

Haha - I'm not sure this poster realizes I am now divorced! So in a word, no, I do not revisit those emotions now
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[Wapiti]

	Originally Posted by Colette To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Haha - I'm not sure this poster realizes I am now divorced! So in a word, no, I do not revisit those emotions now To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

You may revisit those emotions but it definitely doesn't renew the relationship for you. Probably more of a what the hell was I thinking kind of thing.

[JTG]

Yes! I like to get to know somebody before dating them, and i've found that most girls have already moved on or gotten bored with me by the time i'm ready to make that step.

[Colette]

	Originally Posted by whyme1234 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Probably more of a what the hell was I thinking kind of thing.

Yeah, I find myself having that thought somewhat frequently in life. Should I be worried?
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[RoqueBear]

Maybe someday I'll get married in Canada....

I do believe in love, I've felt it before. I've always been better in relationships myself. If I found someone to take that step with, who wanted to share responsibility the way I wanted to, then I would.

[Wapiti]

	Originally Posted by Colette To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yeah, I find myself having that thought somewhat frequently in life. Should I be worried? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I hope it's nothing to worry about cause I have those thoughts on a daily basis.