[frontier]

Hi there,

I was wondering about it for some time, maybe you could help me a little bit...

In the past I had many "friends"; when I asked them to go out, have a chat or anything, they were fine to accept. I could say they liked me.

But, when I stopped contacting them (for whatever reason, just beeing too busy at work for example) they had no interest in me at all. It looks like my action was needed to keep the friendship alive. Why? Of course, it did not happen to all of them, but a majority...

[jikin]

Simply put: that's just life. People will always come and go. Those who fall away permanently were, more than likely, not true friends to begin with. A better term for them would be "close acquaintance". Aquaintances are nice to hang out with or have conversations with, but don't expect them to hang around if you aren't asking them to.

[Harmony]

Some people get really sensitive and touchy when it comes to communication. It's sad how many people don't stop and think "Oh, maybe he just has a lot going on right now" and instead seem to jump straight to "Well, haven't heard from him in a while he must hate me now."

I have several friends that when I got caught up in life and lost touch, when I tried to reconnect it was like they just had no interest anymore. So I moved on.... Some people just grow apart when they lose touch and it can be hard to recover the friendship.

Sure I'd love to maintain the friendship, but if it just isn't working I move on. Most of my friends now are just as busy as I am, so our get togethers always take weeks to figure out!

[Cygnus]

If I always have to initiate something, eventually I stop. I consider a friendship as a relationship that we reciprocate feelings and actions. If that is not the case, they are not my friend, more an acquaintance.

[frontier]

	Originally Posted by Kymbirleigh To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Some people get really sensitive and touchy when it comes to communication. It's sad how many people don't stop and think "Oh, maybe he just has a lot going on right now" and instead seem to jump straight to "Well, haven't heard from him in a while he must hate me now."

I must admit I had exacty this issue with my female friend, a few years ago. There were a lot of changes in my life, so I was concentrated on them and forgot to communicate (she lived far away from me anyway). When I phoned her after a few months, she was surprisingly saying that she thought I don't like her anymore! She is a nice and good character lady, but after this conversation, for some reason I felt if I want to keep this going, I have to constantly express that I like her. If not, she would go back to her previous thoughts... maybe she does not like herself? For people who don't like themselves it may be hard to accept that someone likes them... possibly?

[Harmony]

Originally Posted by frontier To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I must admit I had exacty this issue with my female friend, a few years ago. There were a lot of changes in my life, so I was concentrated on them and forgot to communicate (she lived far away from me anyway). When I phoned her after a few months, she was surprisingly saying that she thought I don't like her anymore! She is a nice and good character lady, but after this conversation, for some reason I felt if I want to keep this going, I have to constantly express that I like her. If not, she would go back to her previous thoughts... maybe she does not like herself? For people who don't like themselves it may be hard to accept that someone likes them... possibly?

Pretty well nailed that one.... I used to be very similar to this. Over time I grew and stopped hating on myself (at least in a serious way, now I do it jokingly). Once I did that, if someone I hadn't talked to in awhile popped back in my life it was a pleasant surprise and a nice little time to catch up. Up until I reached that point though, if someone contacted me after no communication for a long time, and then I didn't hear from them for a long time after contacting me, it would really stress me out. Sometimes it's best to just let a friendship fall for the sake of the other person.

[coffeeloverfreak]

I've had a lot of friends like this in the past. It took me a while to realise that for some of them, making new friends and acquaintances was so easy, that it just wasn't worth the effort to them to sustain friendship beyond the easy and obvious. They didn't much care who they were surrounded with, as long as they were surrounded with people. So, if I was friends with them back when we worked at a job together, or were in school together, they'd just let the friendship die when they moved on to the next thing, because they never bothered working at friendships.

For me, friends aren't interchangeable. There are a very small number of people in my life who are very important to me. If they move away, or their lives change, I keep making the effort because they're important to me, and I don't replace them so easily with new people. The ones who make the effort in return are the ones who stick. Most of my friends are people who have been in my life for ten, fifteen years, at least.

I've noticed that many of my good friends are also introverts. Maybe we're more likely to see it that way.

[Harmony]

A lot of people have troubled identifying the difference between acquaintances and friends too. Most people I would go out with after work were not people I would classify as my friends...they were acquaintances to me. So when I moved on and we had totally different schedules, there wasn't much need for me to keep in touch with them because I didn't go out with them after work anymore. These were never people that I called up to chat about life or obtain advice from.

[Cocoa]

I often like to dissapear when I am busy. I do worry that I give off the appearance like I dont like the people anymore. That is not true for me, but that is the impression that I give off. Usually people have to ask me to go out cause I just forget to.

About falling away friends... I wish they didn't. Psychically I miss the good ol' days back a few hundred years when everyone lived in the same village and maintained their friendships for life.

[JustMel]

My granny always called these people "fly by night" friends.

[Prunesquallor]

Pleads guilty on this.
I rarely initiate contact, because I'm too wrapped up in my little world - my books and my computer and my books and books. Most of my friends need to have patience and understand I can disappear for months.
It's not a good quality, I'm sure. I've just not yet needed to change it.

[Acmeaviator]

	Pleads guilty on this. I rarely initiate contact, because I'm too wrapped up in my little world - my books and my computer and my books and books. Most of my friends need to have patience and understand I can disappear for months. It's not a good quality, I'm sure. I've just not yet needed to change it.

+1 -- with the additional thought that I know I don't need to change it. While many people today feel that there are too few connections between people I feel there are far too many. People you just meet feel free to talk on and on about the most private of issues, and assume that you really care. Coworkers assume that since you share a workplace you are automatically buddies. Family members freak out if you have not commented on the pics the put on facebook 30 seconds ago.

I have one primary realtime connection - my wife. I have a good friend who understands that my seclusion is just a part of who I am and is cool with it. My secondary social connections are with my guild members (WoW), and outside of that occasional lunches with a group of coworkers. All of them could disappear tomorrow without any impact except my wife.

[Caedus]

Originally Posted by Acmeaviator To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

+1 -- with the additional thought that I know I don't need to change it. While many people today feel that there are too few connections between people I feel there are far too many. People you just meet feel free to talk on and on about the most private of issues, and assume that you really care. Coworkers assume that since you share a workplace you are automatically buddies. Family members freak out if you have not commented on the pics the put on facebook 30 seconds ago. I have one primary realtime connection - my wife. I have a good friend who understands that my seclusion is just a part of who I am and is cool with it. My secondary social connections are with my guild members (WoW), and outside of that occasional lunches with a group of coworkers. All of them could disappear tomorrow without any impact except my wife.

Thank you. I always used to think it was bad of me to classify people like that, but its nice to read someone else does that as well. For me I would have to say my immediate family would fit that criteria, however I still keep them at an arms length. I do not trust anyone to establish that kind of a connection with.
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[Ava]

One of my former 'best friends' was like that. It took me years to really notice it, but eventually I did notice that around 80% of the time it was always me initiating conversations with her, coming up with plans for us to do things together, going to hang out with her at her place because for some reason she never wanted to come to mine, and so on. And in the other 20% of cases where she did initiate something, more than half the time the first thing out of her mouth was, "oh, I was supposed to hang out with my boyfriend but he's away this weekend so I figured I'd call you".

Eventually I just lost patience with it and figured if she actually derived any sort of value from my company, she'd initiate things with me if it'd been a while since she'd seen me or talked to me. I waited six months until I decided the friendship was over and I've sworn to myself that I won't let anything like that happen again. It's supposed to be an equal relationship, and if the vast majority of the burden of maintaining contact falls to me I can only assume that's because the other person doesn't actually want to maintain contact.

[frontier]

"Glad" to see I'm not the only one...

	Originally Posted by Ava To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	"oh, I was supposed to hang out with my boyfriend but he's away this weekend so I figured I'd call you".

It sounds like she treats you as some sort of a last resort entertainer, good for you that you've realised and left her.

[alphawolf]

Originally Posted by frontier To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

In the past I had many "friends"; when I asked them to go out, have a chat or anything, they were fine to accept. I could say they liked me. But, when I stopped contacting them (for whatever reason, just beeing too busy at work for example) they had no interest in me at all. It looks like my action was needed to keep the friendship alive. Why? Of course, it did not happen to all of them, but a majority...

Our fathers and siblings will die, our friends and lovers will leave us, we will be “schooled by pain” and then, against the odds, we will continue.

[Homini Lupus]

I had some comparable experiences but my conclusions were somewhat different. I came to understand that most people understand friendships in terms of gorups, like tribes, individual friendship being the exception, often having also a tribal dimension and being less important than tribal loyalty. While there is at least one of those "tribes" I can consider myself being part of, my individualism makes my loyalty more questionable than usual and I still see people inside as individuals some of whom have little in common with me.
Interacting with friends from an individual point of view tough is less common and most people expect others to call just as they expect the tribal leadership to make the communication flow.
Age can also be an issue because differences relatively unimportant during teenage years can grow into relevant differences during the twenties.

And about being considered odd, I know people around me does it, and I find it as natural as the day forming into the night; most people can go on about their lives without even caring about the existance of a different points of view, sticking to their group of fellow minded people and dehumanizing the others. That's one of the reasons I tend to prefer dealing with "odd" people: being the minority they are more likely to accept diversity as part of life.

[llBradll]

I feel that I've always been the one to initiate most of my friendships(if you would call them that), and generally it has been up to me to keep them going. It's always felt like I've put more into things than others and almost never got as much back.

However when I think about it, that might be a nice thing. Ideally some socialisation for one day a week would sustain me quite well. Other than that I would rather have me time.





llBradll added to this post, 0 minutes and 57 seconds later...

It seems that the people who are willing to go half-way are rare.

[Zhen]

at the end of the day everybody is too busy to keep more than a handful of friends long term. I find if you feel you are making all the effort stop making it and see if the person makes effort, if not, they probably don't value you as much as you value them amongst all your friends (take into account how actually busy the person is as well)...if they don't make any effort, maybe it is a good idea to go find better friends and stop investing all your time in something where you give and get nothing back.

[Cocoa]

Originally Posted by Ava To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

One of my former 'best friends' was like that. It took me years to really notice it, but eventually I did notice that around 80% of the time it was always me initiating conversations with her, coming up with plans for us to do things together, going to hang out with her at her place because for some reason she never wanted to come to mine, and so on. And in the other 20% of cases where she did initiate something, more than half the time the first thing out of her mouth was, "oh, I was supposed to hang out with my boyfriend but he's away this weekend so I figured I'd call you". Eventually I just lost patience with it and figured if she actually derived any sort of value from my company, she'd initiate things with me if it'd been a while since she'd seen me or talked to me. I waited six months until I decided the friendship was over and I've sworn to myself that I won't let anything like that happen again. It's supposed to be an equal relationship, and if the vast majority of the burden of maintaining contact falls to me I can only assume that's because the other person doesn't actually want to maintain contact.

ugh... I hate women like this! But there are far too many! They get a man and dump all their female friends because she just "has to be" with Steven 24/7 and has "no time". Grrr. I get so annoyed. I dump them myself. It's pathetic how they crawl back when their relationship ends tho. Not that I will tolerate such crawl backs, but they happen.

[Indubitably]

They were acquaintances, not friends. I think this is one of the defining features of a friendship, a friend is someone you are close to because of whom they are, an acquaintance is someone you are close to merely because the circumstances of life have brought you together. A true friend is not someone that needs to be maintained, your relationship is is not based on the momentary circumstances of life, they are your friend because at some fundamental level they complement who you are.

If someone is a real friend you will be able to pack up and move across the country for twenty years and then be thick as thieves the moment you run into them again.





Indubitably added to this post, 14 minutes and 13 seconds later...

	Originally Posted by Ava To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I did notice that around 80% of the time it was always me initiating conversations with her, coming up with plans for us to do things together, going to hang out with her at her place because for some reason she never wanted to come to mine, and so on.

I would be very careful about this kind of thinking, its very important in a friendship that you be able to do this kind of thing with no expectation of it be reciprocated, that it is something you do because you want to, and that you can stop doing it without it affecting the depth of your connection (or the other person holding it against you for that matter). Otherwise your "friendship" degenerates into a contract, you are no longer a friend, you are a client purchasing attention with plans and conversations. A friend should never expect you to do something "for" them, but if you do decide to, and it is not done with genuine generosity, it can only serve to undermine your relationship.

[Prunesquallor]

Originally Posted by Indubitably To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I would be very careful about this kind of thinking, its very important in a friendship that you be able to do this kind of thing with no expectation of it be reciprocated, that it is something you do because you want to, and that you can stop doing it without it affecting the depth of your connection (or the other person holding it against you for that matter). Otherwise your "friendship" degenerates into a contract, you are no longer a friend, you are a client purchasing attention with plans and conversations. A friend should never expect you to do something "for" them, but if you do decide to, and it is not done with genuine generosity, it can only serve to undermine your relationship.

True dat.
I leave most plans to my generally more extraverted friends because they like that and they're good at it. I go out of my way to make time with them and get things organised once plans are made, and I contribute other things, but if you're too stuck on the 'we have to call equally' then it can be a bit silly. Like 'friends give each other gifts = mine are nicer = she doesn't like me = she is a bad friend.' People do bring different things to friendships and have different needs for companionship, which means there usually will be a disparity in specific things; a disparity over all is the real problem. Yes, if they never bother at all that's questionable - but maybe they never need to, since you always call right when they're thinking of it...or a bit before. If it bothers you, bring it up, but some 'test' isn't always the best solution. They may think because you suddenly stopped calling that you are mad and don't want to talk to you, and be mad that you won't explain why you're mad but just give them the silent treatment, instead of that its 'their turn' to call. All sorts of misunderstandings can occur with that sort of thing. Speech. It's a good thing.

[Ava]

I would be very careful about this kind of thinking, its very important in a friendship that you be able to do this kind of thing with no expectation of it be reciprocated, that it is something you do because you want to, and that you can stop doing it without it affecting the depth of your connection (or the other person holding it against you for that matter). Otherwise your "friendship" degenerates into a contract, you are no longer a friend, you are a client purchasing attention with plans and conversations. A friend should never expect you to do something "for" them, but if you do decide to, and it is not done with genuine generosity, it can only serve to undermine your relationship.

The thing I 'expect' to be reciprocated is some level of interest in maintaining contact with me. If we don't ever talk unless I go out of my way to contact you, and we don't ever see each other unless I go out of my way to make plans for it, how is that a friendship? I understand that when I see that behavior from someone who I've just met or who is only an acquaintance that it's a sign they probably don't actually like me and just haven't figured out a polite way to get rid of me, so how am I supposed to interpret it coming from someone who's supposed to be a friend?

I'm not talking about being all in a huff about oh, I called her last time and now it's her turn to call me and I absolutely won't call her first because it's not my turn - my grandmother and her sister did that and hadn't spoken for like 30 years at the time of my grandmother's death. I never got to meet the sister. I'm talking about a situation where I feel like maintaining the friendship has been left entirely in my responsibility, and if I stop working at it it'll dissolve because the other person will put forth absolutely no effort... which just makes me think that they didn't care about the friendship that much to begin with. Which I'm pretty sure was the case with this particular friend - she'd already made it clear that she thought boyfriends were of absolutely monumental importance in comparison to friends, and she told a mutual acquaintance that she thought all the issues I had with problems in our friendship came not from her own actions but from the fact that I was terribly jealous of the fact that she had a boyfriend and I didn't. I'm really not sure the whole situation even had any sort of impact on her life, but I'll never know.

[Cygnus]

I would be very careful about this kind of thinking, its very important in a friendship that you be able to do this kind of thing with no expectation of it be reciprocated, that it is something you do because you want to, and that you can stop doing it without it affecting the depth of your connection (or the other person holding it against you for that matter). Otherwise your "friendship" degenerates into a contract, you are no longer a friend, you are a client purchasing attention with plans and conversations. A friend should never expect you to do something "for" them, but if you do decide to, and it is not done with genuine generosity, it can only serve to undermine your relationship.

It is a matter of judgement, people will have a tolerance and may not keep a score card, but suddenly realize they do most of the giving in a relationship and simply tire of it. It is not a forethought, rather a hindsight. An event usually triggers the entire thought (perhaps betrayed trust or lack of helpfulness when needed) and the relationship get re-evaluted and a score card assessed.

[ProxyMe]

Originally Posted by coffeeloverfreak To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I've had a lot of friends like this in the past. It took me a while to realise that for some of them, making new friends and acquaintances was so easy, that it just wasn't worth the effort to them to sustain friendship beyond the easy and obvious. They didn't much care who they were surrounded with, as long as they were surrounded with people. So, if I was friends with them back when we worked at a job together, or were in school together, they'd just let the friendship die when they moved on to the next thing, because they never bothered working at friendships.

Yes, exactly. This seems to be a common issue I've encountered when dealing with extroverts. What takes a great deal of effort and personal investment from me... initiating contact, attempting to be sociable, etc, was taken for granted because it was disposable to others.