[Tocsin]

Sorry "gals," but an observation was made regarding the proverbial "what women really want" on the
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
thread that motivated to start this offshoot:

Originally Posted by thod To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Those who claim we are free floating intellects, male and female alike, are fools. We are hooked to our evolutionary past through our bodies and our brains. The most important factor for us long ago ceased to be predation by animals. We have evolved to fight off those that would take our resources and to take theirs instead. Men have evolved for warfare, not modern warfare but tribal warfare. We bond into warrior bands, we understand the idea of violence again the other, we instinctively want to protect our women. The women have evolved for their role too, they would prefer the certainties of such a world and seek such men out. The taking of women back to your own village either by warfare or by marriage has left its mark on the female mind, allowing them to rapidly integrate. We are not free, we are the product of our past.

I certainly don't claim to know everything about women, which is why I'm asking...

So... is this true?

Do women really harbor secret hopes that the superior local Alpha Male will steal you away from the inferior, girly man nerd that you are presently stuck with, grab you up, haul you off to his den, "have his way' with you, knock you up, and then keep you safe and secure as part of his Alpha Male harem while you breed his numerous genetically superior offspring?

Is being the property of a strong, masculine man "what women really want?"

[Synamon]

	Originally Posted by Tocsin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Is being the property of a strong, masculine man "what women really want?"

Not this woman.

[JustMel]

I'd be more inclined to kick his ass myself if he tried to drag me anywhere or call me his property. it certainly wouldn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy.

I did actually have a guy who thought he could treat me like that. His thought was that all strong women want a man to "bring them down a notch and show them their place". He found his place and it wasn't in my life.

[Latro]

It's been said that women want men like that to father their children, and that women want the "girly men" (which in this society tend to wind up being the providers, since providing for one's family no longer uses physical ability in the vast majority of cases and since the "bad boys" typically slack off on education) to help them raise their children. I don't know how valid that is but I think it's an interesting perspective.

[idioteque]

Originally Posted by Tocsin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Sorry "gals," but an observation was made regarding the proverbial "what women really want" on the To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. thread that motivated to start this offshoot: I certainly don't claim to know everything about women, which is why I'm asking... So... is this true? Do women really harbor secret hopes that the superior local Alpha Male will steal you away from the inferior, girly man nerd that you are presently stuck with, grab you up, haul you off to his den, "have his way' with you, knock you up, and then keep you safe and secure as part of his Alpha Male harem while you breed his numerous genetically superior offspring? Is being the property of a strong, masculine man "what women really want?"

If anyone even considered me their property I'd coldly remind them of their miscalculations and leave them to rot.

[Josephine1012]

Ok, there is a lot more to this. There are certain traits that represent an ideal mate, which include (random order so don't read into that):

Exceptional good-looks
Fantastic Lover
Physical Strength
Emotional Strength
High intelligence
Flexibility of the Mind
Ability to be monagomous
Positive attitude
Strong attachment to their partner (me)
Being able to make good decisions fast
Being able to constantly evolve, to keep me interested

Now realistically, this isn't a real person. This is an idealized concept of what a perfect mate would be to me. I've never met anyone like that, not to mention I'm far from perfect myself. So in general, I'm really happy to be with a person who has most of these qualities to a high enough extent.

Physical strength is on the list -yes, but do I value it over flexibility of mind -absolutely not. Of course if a man can't beat me in arm wrestling, we may have a problem....

[invicta]

LOL, no not true. I seek out men that with whom can have a meaningful relationship.

Narcissistic fantasies on the part of the theory's creator notwithstanding, there are primitive cultures that are actually less warlike, and more egalitarian than our own.

I think that for anyone creating an argument for their own superiority via supposed biodeterminism, such a person would do well to examine their need to do so.

[rara avis]

No, that's pretty dumb. Hyperbolic and simplistic at the same time. Yes, I want what I think of as a masculine man. I want a person whose traits augment and compliment mine. No, I don't want a blowhard, testosterone-marinated idiot who thinks life is a 1980s bodice ripper. I don't want to be around anyone who thinks they should really be able to take me anywhere. Because kneeing people in the balls all the time is exhausting.

Me Tarzan, you Jane is fun once in a while, because for sure, it pushes buttons by exaggerating the gender contrasts. Good times. But in terms of partnering up to build a life, I want to be respected first and foremost as a unique human intellect. There are important aspects there in which I believe gender is incidental.

As a generous warning to those who might consider carting me off to a... village - if I do appear to be integrating well, watch your back and keep the fire extinguisher handy. Because something is very wrong with that picture. I don't think I got that gene.

Tocsin, I'd say it's really more of a question of what kind of girl you want. Because Thod can probably find a female to mate with, using his frame of reference. There are lots of people in the world who function mainly according to an unrefined, base nature. And lots of women who are tickled pink to be written off according to gender and hormones. And I wish him joy of them, I'm sure they'll have great dinner conversation.

[jazziejazzay]

Originally Posted by Tocsin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Sorry "gals," but an observation was made regarding the proverbial "what women really want" on the To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. thread that motivated to start this offshoot: I certainly don't claim to know everything about women, which is why I'm asking... So... is this true? Do women really harbor secret hopes that the superior local Alpha Male will steal you away from the inferior, girly man nerd that you are presently stuck with, grab you up, haul you off to his den, "have his way' with you, knock you up, and then keep you safe and secure as part of his Alpha Male harem while you breed his numerous genetically superior offspring? Is being the property of a strong, masculine man "what women really want?"

Hmm.. okay.. From the way you put it... I want no man who behaves as you mentioned. What you describe doesn't seem like a masculine, strong man at all. But a forever emotionally and mentally stunted man who could never satisfy my needs or wants.

To start with; there would be alot of women involved in the statement " what women really want." Each of these women are different. Different needs. Different wants. So, saying what women want isn't really fair unless you hear the voice of every woman. And it's hard to say what people want in general because, as it's well known, what people want and what people need seem to go in the opposite direction. And sometimes what people want changes... and so on and so on. You see the problem?

Perhaps you meant to ask what women of this forum as individuals really want? That's what I see in this question.

[greenblob]

I would think the ideal is somewhere between those two extremes.

But, as a somewhat feminine and submissive and sometimes emotionally needy person - basically your anti-alpha male - what you described is one of my greatest fears--both that someone who is more masculine than I am would do such a thing and that it would result in a happier relationship.

[JohnDoe]

	Originally Posted by Tocsin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Is being the property of a strong, masculine man "what women really want?"

I've been told to my face by multiple women that they liked me because I have a tendency to automatically play the leader and they wanted someone to lead them around. I pretty much lost respect for these people immediately. I don't find excessively submissive women attractive at all. But are there women who want their SO to play the leader? Definitely.

[Sequoia]

Originally Posted by Tocsin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Sorry "gals," but an observation was made regarding the proverbial "what women really want" on the To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. thread that motivated to start this offshoot: I certainly don't claim to know everything about women, which is why I'm asking...   Originally Posted by thod To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Those who claim we are free floating intellects, male and female alike, are fools. We are hooked to our evolutionary past through our bodies and our brains. The most important factor for us long ago ceased to be predation by animals. We have evolved to fight off those that would take our resources and to take theirs instead. Men have evolved for warfare, not modern warfare but tribal warfare. We bond into warrior bands, we understand the idea of violence again the other, we instinctively want to protect our women. The women have evolved for their role too, they would prefer the certainties of such a world and seek such men out. The taking of women back to your own village either by warfare or by marriage has left its mark on the female mind, allowing them to rapidly integrate. We are not free, we are the product of our past. So... is this true? Do women really harbor secret hopes that the superior local Alpha Male will steal you away from the inferior, girly man nerd that you are presently stuck with, grab you up, haul you off to his den, "have his way' with you, knock you up, and then keep you safe and secure as part of his Alpha Male harem while you breed his numerous genetically superior offspring? Is being the property of a strong, masculine man "what women really want?"

I've seen this theory before. They actually taught this ridiculous view in various social science classes when I was in college. It speaks loudly to the cultural bias of our present society.

To me, such an individual portrayed is a nightmare. If I found myself in such a situation, I would do everything in my power to escape. There are many parts of the world where women are forced to be property like that. I am eternally grateful I do not live in one of them.

[Linwenilid]

	Is being the property of a strong, masculine man "what women really want?"

Rationally, objectively, that's ridiculous to ask to INTJ females. A lifetime of being an object and belonging to a testosterone-ridden brute? No thanks.

But, and I'm just wondering about this, childbearing and property issues aside, aren't independent, strong, sexually liberated women of whatever type always seeking to get the attention of the best possible specimen, the alpha male? Sure, that's just fun, but I haven't seen these women "predating" the beta males, the ones apparently more capable of a stable and emotionally mature relationship. And if I extrapolate even more from some "marriage&kids are a *chore* women mustn't be forced to undertake" statements I've seen/heard, these women go through their lives in fun-loving mode and don't really stop to consider a long term relationship. I'm not saying this is either good or bad, I'm wondering if that behaviour has something to do with the ancient evolutionary need to "belong" to the alpha male, played as the outdated fantasy it is nowadays.

[Jinxu]

Originally Posted by Latro To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It's been said that women want men like that to father their children, and that women want the "girly men" (which in this society tend to wind up being the providers, since providing for one's family no longer uses physical ability in the vast majority of cases and since the "bad boys" typically slack off on education) to help them raise their children. I don't know how valid that is but I think it's an interesting perspective.

It's called the Sexy Son Hypothesis:


To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

	The sexy son hypothesis has been suggested as the origin of some aspects of human sexual behavior. In particular, it has been shown that human females are more attracted to traditionally masculine men ("cads") during the most fertile times of their menstrual cycles, and more attracted to relatively feminine men ("dads") during the remainder of the cycle.

[thod]

Whoa! Quoting me from a threat on testosterone effect into a new thread isn't fair. If you wanted to raise the subject of differences in mate selection by gender then do it yourself instead of seeking to direct any angry respondents towards me.

I maintain that such differences do exist, men value youth and looks and care very little for the wealth or status of prospective females. There is ample evidence to back up the idea such differences exist. Now if you wanted to start a discussion about whether social roles reflect underlying evolutionary roles, and those of our ancestors, that is different debate.

[Josephine1012]

	Originally Posted by thod To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I maintain that such differences do exist, men value youth and looks and care very little for the wealth or status of prospective females. There is ample evidence to back up the idea such differences exist. Now if you wanted to start a discussion about whether social roles reflect underlying evolutionary roles, and those of our ancestors, that is different debate.

I think this statement is equally fair to the other statement regarding women wanting only a masculine guy aka. alpha-male. The statement in it's own right isn't at all untrue. It's a matter of what other things you may want. So I bet you anything if you could make an insta mate and give them every quality you want AND sprinkle in some youthful looks no man would ever say no thank you to that addition.

Similarly, with the statment regarding females wanting a physically strong and decisive man, no woman would turn that down if it came in the right package.

I think depending on a person this may or may not be the most important thing to them. I think stating it in this context is obscuring the point that to some these superficial things aren't most important in comparison.

[thod]

There are numerous oddities about female sexual behaviour.

I recall 10% of children have different fathers to who they think. The female simply selects who she thinks will be the best carer, or if married, tells the husband that its his. Although she is assured the child is hers, the man can never be sure. Since the effort of raising another man's genes is so prohibitive, like a cuckoo, it is not surprising he should be more careful about her promiscuity then she is off his.

There is much to said for the phrase "familiarity breeds contempt" when it comes to women choosing their mates. Women rarely find those they were raised with attractive. By contrast the visiting circus hand is more likely to find her a willing mate. So why do women find new males so much more attractive? The answer is down to better babies. The males around her are likely to carry similar genes, the stranger from afar different. Such mixing produces more resilient offspring, any defect in her is less likely to be matched in him. This is a phenomena know as
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
The girls don't know why they do it and will often deny they do. But it easy enough to observe, just ask that circus hand.

[JustMel]

Originally Posted by thod To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

There are numerous oddities about female sexual behaviour. I recall 10% of children have different fathers to who they think. The female simply selects who she thinks will be the best carer, or if married, tells the husband that its his. Although she is assured the child is hers, the man can never be sure. Since the effort of raising another man's genes is so prohibitive, like a cuckoo, it is not surprising he should be more careful about her promiscuity then she is off his. There is much to said for the phrase "familiarity breeds contempt" when it comes to women choosing their mates. Women rarely find those they were raised with attractive. By contrast the visiting circus hand is more likely to find her a willing mate. So why do women find new males so much more attractive? The answer is down to better babies. The males around her are likely to carry similar genes, the stranger from afar different. Such mixing produces more resilient offspring, any defect in her is less likely to be matched in him. This is a phenomena know as To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. The girls don't know why they do it and will often deny they do. But it easy enough to observe, just ask that circus hand.

This actually makes sense. I've seen the pattern at work but never thought anything about "why".

[WratSpa]

Not this woman either...no thank you.

[speedsuit721]

Not me. The big, manly men are usually dumb as stumps. I've always fallen for nerds. Skinny, glasses-wearing, comic book-loving, Star Trek-watching nerds. Granted, the one I'm dating now doesn't wear glasses, but he is skinny and loves Star Trek. And I think he's ridiculously hot.

Of course, I think INTJ women aren't a very good representative lot. What are we, .005% of all MBTI types? We tend to value intellectualism a lot more than the average person, let alone the average female. So, you know, whatever roasts your toast.

[rahdam]

Originally Posted by Josephine1012 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think this statement is equally fair to the other statement regarding women wanting only a masculine guy aka. alpha-male. The statement in it's own right isn't at all untrue. It's a matter of what other things you may want. So I bet you anything if you could make an insta mate and give them every quality you want AND sprinkle in some youthful looks no man would ever say no thank you to that addition. Similarly, with the statment regarding females wanting a physically strong and decisive man, no woman would turn that down if it came in the right package. I think depending on a person this may or may not be the most important thing to them. I think stating it in this context is obscuring the point that to some these superficial things aren't most important in comparison.

This is a great post, but introduces a slippery slope; where do you decide to settle, given the qualities that you want and the different combinations of those qualities you find throughout life. Myself, I'd rather die alone that settle for something less than what I want. And don't construe "what I want" as a laundry list, because it's not. It's simply how the person incorporates her different qualities into the whole that determines if they are indeed what I want. And likewise, from their perspective.

[Oleander]

I would think that a modern-day alpha male could rise above his most primal needs. That is the absolute alpha male in my opinion. The other type is on par with my neighbor's unfixed male Rottweiler.

A modern-day alpha male should be influential enough to have me come to him. What I want is an emotionally, mentally, physically and socially strong human being with whom to share my life and have children. He doesn't need to be perfect but he should have it in mind to be the best that he can be, but also know when to be humble enough to accept fault within himself. I want someone to reflect the person that I strive daily to become. I don't believe in modern-day gender-specific roles, though I understand the influence a person's makeup may have on their lifestyle and I do not go along with the defacing of a role a man or a woman feels more comfortable in. However, it cannot impede on my own lifestyle. Flexibility is key.

[greenblob]

Originally Posted by Oleander To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I would think that a modern-day alpha male could rise above his most primal needs. That is the absolute alpha male in my opinion. The other type is on par with my neighbor's unfixed male Rottweiler. A modern-day alpha male should be influential enough to have me come to him. What I want is an emotionally, mentally, physically and socially strong human being with whom to share my life and have children. He doesn't need to be perfect but he should have it in mind to be the best that he can be, but also know when to be humble enough to accept fault within himself. I want someone to reflect the person that I strive daily to become. I don't believe in modern-day gender-specific roles, though I understand the influence a person's makeup may have on their lifestyle and I do not go along with the defacing of a role a man or a woman feels more comfortable in. However, it cannot impede on my own lifestyle. Flexibility is key.

Exactly! The term "alpha male" has acquired so many negative connotations because people are jealous of alpha males and because many so-called alpha males are only pretending. An alpha male is essentially someone with leadership qualities. Who doesn't find that attractive?

[blatant]

	Do women really harbor secret hopes that the superior local Alpha Male will steal you away from the inferior, girly man nerd that you are presently stuck with, grab you up, haul you off to his den, "have his way' with you, knock you up, and then keep you safe and secure as part of his Alpha Male harem while you breed his numerous genetically superior offspring?

...No. XD Dear GOD, no.

1. I'm quite possessive. If I'm yours, then you damned better be mine and no one else's, unless we're both doing the poly thing.

2. Local superior alpha male? I've actually preferred men who looked radically different from me (e.g.: different ethic origins and physical features)

3. The inferior girly man isn't a bad guy. I'd just never hit that. Why? Well, would you ever want a relationship with someone you felt was inferior to you? There you go!
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


4. What does safe and secure mean? As in locked up and can't go anywhere? That's boring and repressive.

However, I will say that it would be very nice to be pursued by Mr. Adonis with his millions of dollars (Mr. Big from sex and the city, anyone?)

It's unlikely though!

[Josephine1012]

Originally Posted by rahdam To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

This is a great post, but introduces a slippery slope; where do you decide to settle, given the qualities that you want and the different combinations of those qualities you find throughout life. Myself, I'd rather die alone that settle for something less than what I want. And don't construe "what I want" as a laundry list, because it's not. It's simply how the person incorporates her different qualities into the whole that determines if they are indeed what I want. And likewise, from their perspective.

That's the tricky part, I don't settle. I only do (ahem, pun intended) what makes me happy. I can't go against myself... But for me it isn't fully a laundry list (someone may have it all and for some mysterious reason I still won't find them attractive), there are things I like in general (from previous experience/common sense) which I had listed (That was really just to make a point that a person who is attractive may have various definable positive qualities), but a great personality goes along way. I couldn't be with someone I didn't find attractive or had to talk myself into liking. I either like someone or I don't (that part is binary), but if you add a few superficial attractiveness qualities to someone I already like that's a bonus.

So with the example of strength, it's a nice to have quality. I would never be attracted to someone based solely on that, but if I already like them and they are physically strong/highly attractive it's a plus.

Think of it this way, you may like a girl quite a bit. She could be awesome in every way, you think she is physically beautiful but say she could lose a few pounds to be closer to your physical ideal. You may like her despite that flaw but if she does get a little trimmer, all the better, right?