[intjdude]

MOD EDIT: This was Split From "
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" The conversation is about rushes of attraction, referred to as HEAT by some posters involved (No, I don't know why it's capitalized.)

Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

He gets into your personal space repeatedly, into the Intimate Zone Behaviors inappropriate to social conduct (very intimate) Forgets other people are in the room - does not rein himself in - locked in on you Attempts to establish rapport and get in sync with you Extreme behavior change - peers flabbergasted to note how he is when with you Seems delighted by you and finds you fascinating Thinks he's being sly but is as obvious as they come Blushes, stammers or otherwise becomes flustered in your presence Undresses you with those eyes (usually on the sly, but quite noticeable all the same) Gives off intense HEAT You suddenly feel like a gazelle separated from the herd.

ok. let's start picking on the list and see what is left standing...

"#9 Gives off intense HEAT"

How? presuming that the question is: How do you tell a male INTJ is 'sexually/physically attracted' to you... how does one give off 'HEAT'? what kind of 'HEAT' are we talking about here?

for example: If a male INTJ is surfing porn and physically attracted to a porn star... what kind of 'HEAT' should there be?

Maybe:
-drooling
-ogling
-wet underwear
-an erection
-staring (visually focused on a point in space)

so where is this 'HEAT' exactly?

	Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You're missing the point. We're looking for a male INTJ's list. Still Searching... Hey -think I found a skeleton over there - behind that moss covered stone. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The female's list you posted is too subjective...i don't think any INTJ male or female would use so much subjectivity like 'HEAT'. Does this guy need cooling fins when approaching? what the heck is heat?

[wotsamattaU]

It is perhaps regrettable that my list is too subjective for your tastes, but even more so that you have yet to experience HEAT in a similar situation. I do hope Good Fortune smiles upon you and graces you with it. You will know it when you are in the thick of it.
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[intjdude]

Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

At this point I'm going to defer defining what sort of INTJ List the Op had in mind to her. When/if she decides to post again, I'm certain you will have your answer. It is perhaps regrettable that my list is too subjective for your tastes, but even more so that you have yet to experience HEAT in a similar situation. I do hope Good Fortune smiles upon you and graces you with it. You will know it when you are in the thick of it. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

All i'm saying is that you are using a subjective list to interpret objective behavior. I have modified much of my initial behavior (from young) to rational/objective behavior.

I think i know what you mean by HEAT... but my point is that I will suppress any natural reaction to give off HEAT and you will not be able to use that as a clue (which is why i question your list). You might actually think I am not sexually attracted to you because I don't give off HEAT (which would be the wrong conclusion and thus you shouldn't use that list).

EDIT: Or perhaps I just don't know what you mean by HEAT and perhaps you should define it to make sure we're talking about the same thing

[wotsamattaU]

Originally Posted by intjdude To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think i know what you mean by HEAT... but my point is that I will suppress any natural reaction to give off HEAT and you will not be able to use that as a clue (which is why i question your list). You might actually think I am not sexually attracted to you because I don't give off HEAT (which would be the wrong conclusion and thus you shouldn't use that list). EDIT: Or perhaps I just don't know what you mean by HEAT and perhaps you should define it to make sure we're talking about the same thing

There are many types and levels of HEAT one can experience. I almost wrote that they all boil down to the same thing - 'chemistry' but perhaps not. I will give one instance of such an exception.

This is something which I do not believe everyone experiences, and it does not seem to rely on the chemistry between two people.

Some individuals, perhaps they are in the minority - experience Attraction Rushes.

This is not something you are aware will happen when it strikes. They can be conversing with their person of interest and all of a sudden it's as if a chain reaction occurs from within. I think it's a combination of many things suddenly all falling into an alignment.

They may realize they find you attractive, but have been pushing it down for some time. Then one day while they are quite riveted 'in the moment' comes the realization this person meets your criteria to an alarming extent. They may actually give an involuntary shudder. Everything all of a sudden seems a bit out of control. An adrenalin rush strikes, and it is of a most extreme sort. HEAT is given off by that person when they are experiencing this. If the person they are talking to is a sensitive sort, odds are they experience a bit of this too.

This is like a fireball of HEAT projected outward involuntarily. Of all the types of chemical attraction, this is perhaps one of the most intensely experienced. It can actually leave the individual feeling dizzy, flushed, weak and unsteady. It appears to strike out of the blue.

[Jinxu]

wotsamattaU,

maybe what you need is some visual aid to get your point across:

Penelope Cruz in Captain Corelli's Mandolin is a good example of the "HEAT" she is talking about. At least that's what I think. You can tell me if I'm wrong.

Also, you will have to watch the whole movie in order to understand it.

[ENFP]

Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

There are many types and levels of HEAT one can experience. Some individuals, perhaps they are in the minority - experience Attraction Rushes. This is not something you are aware will happen when it strikes. They can be conversing with their person of interest and all of a sudden it's as if a chain reaction occurs from within. I think it's a combination of many things suddenly all falling into an alignment. They may realize they find you attractive, but have been pushing it down for some time. Then one day while they are quite riveted 'in the moment' comes the realization this person meets your criteria to an alarming extent. They may actually give an involuntary shudder. Everything all of a sudden seems a bit out of control. An adrenalin rush strikes, and it is of a most extreme sort. HEAT is given off by that person when they are experiencing this. If the person they are talking to is a sensitive sort, odds are they experience a bit of this too. This is like a fireball of HEAT projected outward involuntarily. Of all the types of chemical attraction, this is perhaps one of the most intensely experienced. It can actually leave the individual feeling dizzy, flushed, weak and unsteady. It appears to strike out of the blue.

WOW, WotsamattaU! You put down exactly how I was struck by lightening with my INTJ crush a year ago. Never experienced anything like it before, didn't know what to do, afraid I was going mad. Out of the blue, I felt so overwhelmed that I had to leave the dancefloor instantly, afraid I would faint or explode if I kept looking into his eyes one second longer or even stayed close to him. It was like an extreme tension and I couldn't endure it. If I hadn't 'fled' I would have made out with him right there - just done anything to release the tension, break the moment, get a grip. (He followed me, concerned and very caring, afraid I was ill. I just said I needed air, that the club had been too crowded. Well, what could I say!?)

I have tried to find some literature on this experience. The closest I got was in a description of the phenomenon of limerence (= an intense and almost obsessive state of infatuation, thriving on hope and uncertainty. Lasts in average 1-3 years!). It was mentioned that people likely remembered the exact moment the limerence 'hit them', they literally felt FALLING in love at once. I wonder if it can be compared to a heroin high - very addictive, it kicks in and changes your brainchemistry into wanting more?

[wotsamattaU]

	Originally Posted by intjdude To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	...my point is that I will suppress any natural reaction to give off HEAT and you will not be able to use that as a clue (which is why i question your list). You might actually think I am not sexually attracted to you because I don't give off HEAT (which would be the wrong conclusion and thus you shouldn't use that list).

This is an excellent point which I forgot to address. It's the suppressing which peculates the entire situation. If you weren't denying it, it would not come out with near the same intensity as it does when it finally surfaces of it's own accord.

	Originally Posted by Jinxu To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	wotsamattaU, maybe what you need is some visual aid to get your point across: Penelope Cruz in Captain Corelli's Mandolin is a good example of the "HEAT" she is talking about. At least that's what I think. You can tell me if I'm wrong. Also, you will have to watch the whole movie in order to understand it.

I haven't seen the movie, but will now place it on my list - thanks for the reference.

Originally Posted by ENFP To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

WOW, WotsamattaU! You put down exactly how I was struck by lightening with my INTJ crush a year ago. I have tried to find some literature on this experience. The closest I got was in a description of the phenomenon of limerence (= an intense and almost obsessive state of infatuation, thriving on hope and uncertainty. Lasts in average 1-3 years!). It was mentioned that people likely remembered the exact moment the limerence 'hit them', they literally felt FALLING in love at once. I wonder if it can be compared to a heroin high - very addictive, it kicks in and changes your brainchemistry into wanting more?

It was so interesting to read of your experience. Up until that point, I had begun wondering if this was something more likely to occur with introverted types due to the suppression/control issue. Like you, I had searched far and wide for information on this and was quite disappointed at how little there is out there discussing it.

re: Limerence - there actually is no time limit to it. It can go on indefinitely if you are in contact with the LO. Even if you stop communicating/seeing one another - if you pick it up a few years down the road it can hit you again as if it never stopped. Tricky stuff that.

The chemicals flooding the brain do hook you into wanting another 'hit' - of that other person, and so a cycle begins. You can find further information by searching for chemical love attraction for a breakdown of the biology behind all of this. That's just the science of it though - there is so much more involved.

I was thinking about this topic earlier today. Three times I have experienced this.
Once as the Recipient, once Simultaneously Mutually, and once as the Fall-ee. These are the sorts of experiences one will never forget as they are incredibly intense and leave you quite shaken to the core.

Perhaps this should be split into a new thread. I would love to hear and discuss other people's first hand accounts with this.

[intjdude]

Originally Posted by ENFP To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

WOW, WotsamattaU! You put down exactly how I was struck by lightening with my INTJ crush a year ago. Never experienced anything like it before, didn't know what to do, afraid I was going mad. Out of the blue, I felt so overwhelmed that I had to leave the dancefloor instantly, afraid I would faint or explode if I kept looking into his eyes one second longer or even stayed close to him. It was like an extreme tension and I couldn't endure it. If I hadn't 'fled' I would have made out with him right there - just done anything to release the tension, break the moment, get a grip. (He followed me, concerned and very caring, afraid I was ill. I just said I needed air, that the club had been too crowded. Well, what could I say!?) I have tried to find some literature on this experience. The closest I got was in a description of the phenomenon of limerence (= an intense and almost obsessive state of infatuation, thriving on hope and uncertainty. Lasts in average 1-3 years!). It was mentioned that people likely remembered the exact moment the limerence 'hit them', they literally felt FALLING in love at once. I wonder if it can be compared to a heroin high - very addictive, it kicks in and changes your brainchemistry into wanting more?

So this guy in your story could tell something was up but could he tell that it was HEAT? I'm wondering if any observer would be able to differentiate HEAT from 'needing air'.

[wotsamattaU]

The person who is spontaneously combusting gives off intense heat. This is something the recipient definitely feels - at least in all three of my instances.

[ENFP]

	Originally Posted by intjdude To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So this guy in your story could tell something was up but could he tell that it was HEAT? I'm wondering if any observer would be able to differentiate HEAT from 'needing air'.

He was coming very strong on to me that night, both before and after the club, so he has picked up on some signals. I had to turn him down, though obviously tempted. He knows this, but we haven't talked about the special moment.

I'm not sure what he made of it all. I don't think I would dare to conclude from such a situation that I'd just witnessed somebody falling hard and instantaneously in love with me.
Even I, who experienced it from the inside, only slowly admitted the importance of the incident to myself and tried for very long to ignore it as some stupid anomali. But couldn't deny it eventually. And mutual attraction seems to persist long distance to this day.

Actually, I think the direct cause of the sudden igniting of my limerent heat was his intense stare, where HIS 'heat' (or whatever it was) kinda knocked me out. Somebody here described the INTJ-stare as "you feel like a deer that's been singled out from the group". Ouch, yes!

Hey - don't you INTJs have some "reverse stare", that can make the limerence go away and allow me to get back to normal?
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[Rohsiph]

This is in reply to the stuff about "heat," that recently was suggested:

	Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Perhaps this should be split into a new thread. I would love to hear and discuss other people's first hand accounts with this.

just for the record . . . ahem.

I wonder, I've read enough to get the gist about limerance, and the experience of 'falling' as buried feelings coming to the fore reminds me of a specific feeling I sometimes get.

Except, after the first time it happened I've always made a point of trying as hard as possible to immerse myself into the experience.

Basically, a numbness comes over me--especially my face. It becomes difficult to move my mouth, to speak, as it's almost like my jaw locks up. I become ultra-aware of my surroundings and my current position. The last few times it happened I started talking about it, how weird it felt . . . I asked if it was noticable, especially if anything about my face changed, and was told nothing seemed out of the ordinary.

I've yet to come across anyone describing a similar feeling, this stuff about "heat" is probably the closest but I never have felt myself literally warm up when it has happened.

I've never noticed the person who would trigger this feeling react to it. The last few times it happened while we were getting into really deep, personal philosophical stuff . . . once a discussion of aesthetics in our own artwork, and once literally discussing personal cosmologies.

It's uncanny . . . it's entirely out of place, and seems to come without reason. Nothing ever changes afterwards either. I've taken it for granted it's just another one of my quirks, so it's interesting to hear about something even slightly similar that has been tracked. It hits me, and I feel engaged like my mind and body are challenging each other, my body for whatever reason trying to shut down.

Hmm . . .

[ENFP]

Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It was so interesting to read of your experience. Up until that point, I had begun wondering if this was something more likely to occur with introverted types due to the suppression/control issue. Like you, I had searched far and wide for information on this and was quite disappointed at how little there is out there discussing it. re: Limerence - there actually is no time limit to it. It can go on indefinitely if you are in contact with the LO. Even if you stop communicating/seeing one another - if you pick it up a few years down the road it can hit you again as if it never stopped. Tricky stuff that. The chemicals flooding the brain do hook you into wanting another 'hit' - of that other person, and so a cycle begins. You can find further information by searching for chemical love attraction for a breakdown of the biology behind all of this. That's just the science of it though - there is so much more involved. I was thinking about this topic earlier today. Three times I have experienced this. Once as the Recipient, once Simultaneously Mutually, and once as the Fall-ee. These are the sorts of experiences one will never forget as they are incredibly intense and leave you quite shaken to the core. Perhaps this should be split into a new thread. I would love to hear and discuss other people's first hand accounts with this.

Hi Wot, what an excellent idea to make a new thread on Limererence / Attraction Rushes / Moments of Heat. Would also be interesting to see if it is more likely to happen to some types (or between some types)?

I haven't thought of the aspect of suppression / control or whether introverts have more issues with this than others. As I wrote in a previous post, becoming fully conscious about the feelings of that moment was not easy to me, I kind of suppressed it or pushed it to the back of my mind. And as ENFP I am supposed to be extravert intuitive, but with introvert feeling, Fi.

[Jinxu]

	Originally Posted by ENFP To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Moments of Heat

I get it now, you're defining "Heat" as the set of physical reactions that people make when they are sexually turned on.

[ENFP]

	Originally Posted by Jinxu To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I get it now, you're defining "Heat" as the set of physical reactions that people make when they are sexually turned on.

Eh... no.

[wotsamattaU]

	Originally Posted by ENFP To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	He was coming very strong on to me that night, both before and after the club, so he has picked up on some signals. I had to turn him down, though obviously tempted. He knows this, but we haven't talked about the special moment.

Interesting...was he being consistently strong or waffling that evening in his attentions?

In the case where I experienced this mutually - with an INTJ - he was in Hunter mode. What occurred within me though is difficult to put into words exactly.

I would compare it to a circuit breaker.

You begin neutral. (power outage)
During conversation you begin to experience stirrings (flip one circuit back on)
He said something which I had a very strong reaction to = strong sense of familiarity (throw several switches on)
I began to feel frightened for the very first time = beginning to sense this is larger than the two of us (extreme tension)
Realization strikes - we have an extreme compatibility (trip all circuits back on in quick succession) Inner shudder with this realization

Circuits now all On - Feeling very electrically charged - Hot - Heart pounding - Palms damp - breathing irregular - Feel entirely exposed, naked - room seems positively sweltering like a jungle - all three people in room comment on how unbearably hot it's become - I am dizzy upon standing - the INTJ falters upon standing and is flushed.

The INTJ and I were sitting closely to one another, and for lack of a better phrase it was experienced as some sort of energetic feedback between us in a loop. Afterward, I felt so connected to him - in thought, emotion and spirit. We became so in sync it was as if we had always known one another.

Originally Posted by ENFP To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I'm not sure what he made of it all. I don't think I would dare to conclude from such a situation that I'd just witnessed somebody falling hard and instantaneously in love with me. Even I, who experienced it from the inside, only slowly admitted the importance of the incident to myself and tried for very long to ignore it as some stupid anomali. But couldn't deny it eventually. And mutual attraction seems to persist long distance to this day.

Did you never get together?

	Originally Posted by ENFP To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Actually, I think the direct cause of the sudden igniting of my limerent heat was his intense stare, where HIS 'heat' (or whatever it was) kinda knocked me out. Somebody here described the INTJ-stare as "you feel like a deer that's been singled out from the group". Ouch, yes!

In my case I feel like I have a lion pinning me to the wall.

	Originally Posted by ENFP To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Hey - don't you INTJs have some "reverse stare", that can make the limerence go away and allow me to get back to normal? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yes, it's the "INTJ Freeze Out". That would be when they withdraw and feign indifference.

Originally Posted by Rohsiph To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Basically, a numbness comes over me--especially my face. It becomes difficult to move my mouth, to speak, as it's almost like my jaw locks up. I become ultra-aware of my surroundings and my current position. The last few times it happened I started talking about it, how weird it felt . . . I asked if it was noticable, especially if anything about my face changed, and was told nothing seemed out of the ordinary.

I have experienced something very similar but it has been a long time ago now. It was almost like a face paralysis....extreme self-consciousness combined with attention to minutia. It's another sort of sensory overload, as I experienced it.

	Originally Posted by Rohsiph To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I've never noticed the person who would trigger this feeling react to it. The last few times it happened while we were getting into really deep, personal philosophical stuff . . . once a discussion of aesthetics in our own artwork, and once literally discussing personal cosmologies.

I'm curious here if you were aware of anything triggering this in you - in my situation I was recognizing this person met all of my criteria. Was this your sense? Has it always been with the same person?

Originally Posted by Rohsiph To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It's uncanny . . . it's entirely out of place, and seems to come without reason. Nothing ever changes afterwards either. I've taken it for granted it's just another one of my quirks, so it's interesting to hear about something even slightly similar that has been tracked. It hits me, and I feel engaged like my mind and body are challenging each other, my body for whatever reason trying to shut down.

What do you mean nothing changes afterwards - do you mean the relationship? When this occurs, do you have the sense that something exceptional is going on?

	Originally Posted by Jinxu To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I get it now, you're defining "Heat" as the set of physical reactions that people make when they are sexually turned on.

This is different than a sexual attraction, at least in my case. It was experienced as a meshing of two individuals...some sort of uncanny inner harmony. I was not reacting to him as a sexual partner. The harmony was so extreme, it seemed as if I was sitting beside the male expression of myself, my mirror. It remains to this day the most extreme experience of my life.

[Samoan Corleone]

When I was a little boy I used to experience massive heat. Not so much now in my late teens, because I've changed my way of thinking, and stuff.

[wotsamattaU]

What would prompt it in you, or were you too young to really recall?

[Samoan Corleone]

It was, like, having my crush(es) in close proximity. I'd just heat up and blush and the only thing I'd be able to think would be "What'a I do? What'a I do?" I think I'd have a stupid looking smile all over my face too. When I reached my teens the anxiety went away.

[wotsamattaU]

I was just going to ask if you'd turn red (now I see you put blush) because I could imagine such.

So it was an extreme tension and anxiety also. I can picture that.

I don't know that I could have altered what I experienced. There was no crush leading up to it. It was a sudden realization that hit me like a ton of bricks. I did not see it coming.

[ENFP]

Ah, this is where the heat-thread has gone :-) Great!

Sexual attraction has happened to me often and though there are strong similarities in the reactions of the body, lust is identifyable to me as limited to a certain range of tension, caused by some sexy situation, act or look. It's also easier to choose whether or not to act on, since you maintain your normal sense of self, free will, walls of protection etc., - you are just attracted and aroused. It does not shake you to the core, forcing its way through normally efficient walls of selfprotection and it does not sweep everything about yourself and the other person into it. After my / our moment of Attraction Rush I must face that I was somehow altered profoundly. It was a defining moment in my life with real consequences. One of which is being on this forum actually (*waves hand* thank you for being here everybody! *waves hand again*). I only discovered MBTI because I was googling around to seek ways to understand this baffling new man in my emotional life. And the INTJ-descriptions made very much sense. Now, one year after the moment, I am close to decide on some major changes in my life in order to see him again and find out what's real and what's a trick of the mind. We live on different continents (!), so my growing urge to act on the experience is definitely not like giving in to convenience or something you'd do just to get casual sexual gratification.

I hope to hear more experiences, also from INTJs, since many claim to experience falling in love, but somehow in a different way from the standard-romance manuscript.

WotsamattaU, I'll return with answers to you questions later! I'm really impressed by how well you describe 'the moment'. I had not thought about whether realisation of an uncanny level of compatibility was a part of it. But now I will ;-)

ENFP added to this post, 700 minutes and 30 seconds later...

	Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Interesting...was he being consistently strong or waffling that evening in his attentions?

He was very consistent in his attention - other people noticed as well. (English is not my mothertongue, can you explain what 'waffling' means?). Afraid of reading too much into things, I was rather slow / willfully naïve (an old tool of protection, not really happy about it). But well before the intense moment of 'heat' at the club, I knew he was definitely coming on to me. I was flattered, interested and liked him, but I kept

One thing I noticed as unusual, and this made me doubt my interpretation a bit, was that he did not touch me in any way when a casual opportunity offered itself. This was one of the things that only made sense after reading about the INTJ-type.


Did you never get together?
No. But I've told him that I wanted to, had I not been in a committed relationship. 9 months later I interrogated him once more on his interest in me. After a great - albeit platonic - visit to my country, I became paranoid whether he 'played me' because nothing was like anything I had experienced before.
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). But that was before I knew about MBTI and INTJness.
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He made this description of 'what is going on between us': "We admire each other, enjoy each other's company and find each other sexy. But there is nothing we can do about that." Very INTJ, no nonsense.
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He asked a minut later if he was being crass, which was sweet, but once more confused me.

[wotsamattaU]

	Originally Posted by ENFP To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	After my / our moment of Attraction Rush I must face that I was somehow altered profoundly. It was a defining moment in my life with real consequences.

Exactly - I agree with this 100%. You also described the differences between sexual attraction and this experience quite perfectly.

Originally Posted by ENFP To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

He was very consistent in his attention - other people noticed as well. (English is not my mothertongue, can you explain what 'waffling' means?). Afraid of reading too much into things, I was rather slow / willfully naïve (an old tool of protection, not really happy about it). But well before the intense moment of 'heat' at the club, I knew he was definitely coming on to me. I was flattered, interested and liked him, but I kept

Wait - you didn't finish your sentence - how can you leave us all hanging?
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I meant waffling as in to vacillate: To swing indecisively from one course of action or opinion to another. So in this case asking, were you subjected to periods of intense interest followed by feigned indifference. The Hot/Cold treatment.

Originally Posted by ENFP To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Did you never get together? No. But I've told him that I wanted to, had I not been in a committed relationship. 9 months later I interrogated him once more on his interest in me. After a great - albeit platonic - visit to my country, I became paranoid whether he 'played me' because nothing was like anything I had experienced before. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ).

What do you mean by this last sentence? When he visited he treated you differently than before?

	Originally Posted by ENFP To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	He made this description of 'what is going on between us': "We admire each other, enjoy each other's company and find each other sexy. But there is nothing we can do about that." Very INTJ, no nonsense. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. He asked a minut later if he was being crass, which was sweet, but once more confused me.

Probably wondered if he had stated things too bluntly. I think it's wonderful you two have discussed this openly. Had to smile at his summary - as that too was our situation.

It is interesting to hear how others experience this.

The very first time it happened to me, I was the recipient. It was at a house party thrown by a woman I worked with, one of those where they try to sell you items for your house - all work women in attendance. The party was breaking up, and she had gone to get my coat. When she returned, her son had come down from his room - and WOWIEEEEE - I got hit with what felt like a wall of heat. I couldn't even look at the guy, he was sending me some serious energy.

We were introduced and said little more than Hello. As I spoke to his mother, I could feel this guy's heat/presence all over me. It made me self conscious buttoning my winter coat and tucking in my scarf. I felt him all the way back to my car and this sensation stayed with me for some time. It had me shaken by it's sheer intensity. I had never experienced that before and was confused on how my appearance could pull such a reaction from someone who didn't know a single thing about me.

The following day at work, his mother sought me out and came right out with it - 'My son is incredibly taken with you, you know. He kept asking me all about you. I told him you're married. Thing is, HE's engaged to be married himself! His choice of fiance' is a disaster; my husband and I can't stand her. She's all wrong for him. After last night, I question why he would go through with it. We can't reason with him though, he will go through with it. It's not like him though to react to someone like he did with you.'

I told her had I not been married, I would have accepted his date offer (so rattled was I by this extreme attention - it did shake me up quite a bit).

As the weeks went past, she would let me know he continued to ask about me. She said really, all he does is normally stay up in his room - she's surprised he comes down and says anything to them at all, let alone this. So from that I assumed he was a bit of a solitary individual, and for whatever reason I triggered a very strong response in him.

I put this Attraction Rush in a different category, because I don't understand - there was next to nil conversation between us. He did overhear me conversing with his mother and others. How much can someone tell about another with such limited data? It seems a stretch to think a person could react so strongly over someone met basically in passing. I know what it feels like to have someone interested in you sexually, but this took the cake. It makes me wonder if through his limited observation I met more than a little of his criteria, be it subconsciously or not.

[ENFP]

Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Exactly - I agree with this 100%. You also described the differences between sexual attraction and this experience quite perfectly. Wait - you didn't finish your sentence - how can you leave us all hanging? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. I meant waffling as in to vacillate: To swing indecisively from one course of action or opinion to another. So in this case asking, were you subjected to periods of intense interest followed by feigned indifference. The Hot/Cold treatment. What do you mean by this last sentence? When he visited he treated you differently than before? The very first time it happened to me, I was the recipient. It was at a house party thrown by a woman I worked with, one of those where they try to sell you items for your house - all work women in attendance. The party was breaking up, and she had gone to get my coat. When she returned, her son had come down from his room - and WOWIEEEEE - I got hit with what felt like a wall of heat. I couldn't even look at the guy, he was sending me some serious energy. We were introduced and said little more than Hello. As I spoke to his mother, I could feel this guy's heat/presence all over me. It made me self conscious buttoning my winter coat and tucking in my scarf. I felt him all the way back to my car and this sensation stayed with me for some time. It had me shaken by it's sheer intensity. I had never experienced that before and was confused on how my appearance could pull such a reaction from someone who didn't know a single thing about me. The following day at work, his mother sought me out and came right out with it - 'My son is incredibly taken with you, you know. He kept asking me all about you. I told him you're married. Thing is, HE's engaged to be married himself! His choice of fiance' is a disaster; my husband and I can't stand her. She's all wrong for him. After last night, I question why he would go through with it. We can't reason with him though, he will go through with it. It's not like him though to react to someone like he did with you.' I told her had I not been married, I would have accepted his date offer (so rattled was I by this extreme attention - it did shake me up quite a bit). As the weeks went past, she would let me know he continued to ask about me. She said really, all he does is normally stay up in his room - she's surprised he comes down and says anything to them at all, let alone this. So from that I assumed he was a bit of a solitary individual, and for whatever reason I triggered a very strong response in him. I put this Attraction Rush in a different category, because I don't understand - there was next to nil conversation between us. He did overhear me conversing with his mother and others. How much can someone tell about another with such limited data? It seems a stretch to think a person could react so strongly over someone met basically in passing. I know what it feels like to have someone interested in you sexually, but this took the cake. It makes me wonder if through his limited observation I met more than a little of his criteria, be it subconsciously or not.

To cut sentence:
Sorry, my editing mistake. I was going to say, that I kept it light. For what I knew, he could be the average conference hunter your mom always warned you against, looking for an anonymous lay before flying back home and forgetting all about you. As evening progressed though, he didn't seem to be such a man. In your terms of compatibility, he exposed sides of himself that made my powerswitches turn 'on' one by one. I think I was afraid of the potential pull because my emotions can be strong and fuck me up. I started an inner dialogue reminding myself that no matter how attractive he was, the whole idea of something beyond the triviality of a conferenceflirt was impossible.

Rationalizing at this point consists of internally putting myself down and him up: such an attractive, independent man of the world wouldn't consider something more serious with a woman 4 years his senior with kids. And living on different continents makes it doomed anyway whatever feelings are... etc. etc. Thus, enjoy his company, be realistic, keep it light.
This was my state of mind when the moment of unbearable intensity hit me and I fell hard.

To waffling:
No, I didn't get the hot/cold treatment. Would have resented that. Only the hot
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To different treatment?:
No not at all, except that it was clear that we shouldn't get physically involved, so in that respect he was not 'hunting'. What I mean is that after his visit I tried to make sense of the previous 8-9 months and I tried all kinds of "models" on him to find a interpretation that was consistent with his behavior, my experience and the cold facts, not wishful thinking or the ENFP tendency to think the best, keep doubt open and disregard evidence to the contrary. We had the intense hourlong chats, then the long silences, only me initiating contact and during the visit he told me about his two new lovers, bi- and polyamory style. And still, he was there, from across the world, just to have lunch with me. So, I tried to run the whole process through "he is just not that into you"-model and then trying the 'Systems' of the player / pick-up artist community, "he is playing you in order to have a warm bed in every city"-model. I was desperate to understand and the whole thing looked like nothing I knew. I asked him, he told me he was not playing me. I believed him. Then I found MBTI and reading the INTJ-profile a lot became clearer!

Probably wondered if he had stated things too bluntly. I think it's wonderful you two have discussed this openly. Had to smile at his summary - as that too was our situation.

Really?! Amazing! Do you still have this connection? How old are you if I may ask? (I'm 41, INTJ 37)


To your experience with this guy's 'heat':
Wow, wasn't it almost scary to be the object of this? I can't help feel that it must be due to a too strong imagination on his part, falling for an image he had built (cold feet before marriage?) and just fitting you into it. He couldn't really have fallen for YOU since he didn't know you and you had had no chance to show yourself. Then it's basically a relation he has to himself, using others as merely 'props' to play out his inner drama. I know I have been prone to do that in the past, I don't like it and now I have a strong need for real interaction with real not-me people.
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I still have to figure out how to do quote and answer in a readable way (thanks Rudy for tidying up quotes in my last post!)

[rain]

Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The chemicals flooding the brain do hook you into wanting another 'hit' - of that other person, and so a cycle begins. You can find further information by searching for chemical love attraction for a breakdown of the biology behind all of this. That's just the science of it though - there is so much more involved. I was thinking about this topic earlier today. Three times I have experienced this. Once as the Recipient, once Simultaneously Mutually, and once as the Fall-ee. These are the sorts of experiences one will never forget as they are incredibly intense and leave you quite shaken to the core. Perhaps this should be split into a new thread. I would love to hear and discuss other people's first hand accounts with this.

I've experienced this a few times, separated by several years. I think in part it is a combination of aspects- physical & biological coupled with an acute awareness of the other person's thinking/emoting senses. I think this happens when you meet your opposite personality type- in Jungian terms, your shadow.

Originally Posted by ENFP To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To cut sentence: To your experience with this guy's 'heat': Wow, wasn't it almost scary to be the object of this? I can't help feel that it must be due to a too strong imagination on his part, falling for an image he had built (cold feet before marriage?) and just fitting you into it. He couldn't really have fallen for YOU since he didn't know you and you had had no chance to show yourself. Then it's basically a relation he has to himself, using others as merely 'props' to play out his inner drama. I know I have been prone to do that in the past, I don't like it and now I have a strong need for real interaction with real not-me people. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

In part, that's probably true, and a good rationalization, although I've been on both sides of the situation, and I can tell you that there's something a priori about those kinds of experiences. If we were to sum up our knowledge of another intimately, it would be an immediate kind of knowledge that we already know before our minds make sense of the experience in a linear way.

I like how Plato describes it "we have already lived this life before and now experiencing it" except in this case, the memory refers to something we haven't yet experienced, if that makes sense.

If time resembles a rhizomic pattern and not a linear line, then depending on the what-ifs of the situation, perhaps we possess that a priori knowledge of that entire spectrum of experience, and the specific point of meeting represents a catalyst to another event. I tend to go with my intuition about these things, and I know specific moments are more significant than others- and whether I attach meaning to them seems entirely subjective, but in reality, perhaps that is the junction in which one experience expanded into another.

It's not that we don't "know" people, we do know people through our collective experience, it's a matter of getting into the habit of mundane experiences that filter through our perception. I can say that I knew X quite intimately, in that I knew from the beginning what his hopes, dreams, wishes, desires, ambitions, loves were without him having to verbalize necessarily what they were, but that ultimately I did not know X's habits and particular quirks. And I can also say that I thought I knew Z quite intimately because we had spent so much time together and grown up together, but in the end realized that I didn't really know him at all, because there was so much I didn't know about the inner workings of his mind, and he became someone I felt I never really knew, because I didn't "get" him.

Attraction rushes/ heat probably indicates cohesive compatibility- but like anything else filtered through our rational thought processes, it's about timing and practicality and experiencing it through our perception of linear time.

[Jinxu]

	Originally Posted by Jinxu To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I get it now, you're defining "Heat" as the set of physical reactions that people make when they are sexually turned on.

Let me rephrase my original comment as I can see how it can be misleading. I didn't mean sexually turned on. I meant to say it's the physical reactions you get when you are see or are near someone you find attractive or someone you have a strong secret crush on. The descriptions: heart beating faster, temperature rising, anxiety, and blushing points all describe this physical reaction. I don't know the official term for it but I think the best visual example of this it is Edward Cullen's character in Twilight when he first saw Bella. Even though I think he is a little creepy.
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You can literally see him having a hard time being near her. I think that's funny.
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[rain]

	Originally Posted by Jinxu To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You can literally see him having a hard time being near her. I think that's funny. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I had a conversation with a uni professor about this, and he told me that in those cases of animal attraction, they was the hardest to act upon, due to an overwhelming sense of the rational fighting with sexual instincts. Therefore, coming to the conclusion that people rather act upon with those without that push-pull instinct. I don't know how accurate that statement is, but I found it interesting.