[Nikita]

(...hopefully, lol)

I thought that I would try and explain the Enneagram for those of you here who are new to the system/theory/philosophy. It is regarded by Enneagram scholars that the Enneagram represents your core personality and motivations, while the MBTI is your toolset. It should also be mentioned that while MBTI is more generally regarded as a science, the Enneagram has tended to take on religious proportions.

To start...

The Enneagram finds its origins in the Kabbalah’s Tree of Life. There are 10 spheres on the Tree of Life, 9 of which correspond to the 9 Enneagram types. The 10th sphere is reserved for “The Messiah” and operates, I believe, like a culmination of all 9 types, balancing the strengths of each and subject to the weaknesses of none.

It is important to think of the Enneagram as a circle and not a hierarchy. No type is better than any other. The effort to reduce bias is the reason that the Enneagram uses numbers for identifying the types as opposed to words.

The 9 types of the Enneagram are divided into three instinctual centers: the Heart/Emotional Center (2-3-4), the Head/Intellectual Center (5-6-7), and the Gut/Instinctual Center (8-9-1). I will expound on each center separately in a later post.

Here is the symbolic structure of the Enneagram.

• The arrows indicate the directions of integration and disintegration for each type. The arrow moving away from each core type, points to its direction of disintegration. This is where the core type moves to when under stress. The arrow moving toward each core type, comes from the direction of integration. This is where the core type moves to when in relaxed conditions. For example, notice that the arrow moving away from type 9 goes to type 6. Type 9, when under stress, will exhibit characteristics of type 6. The arrow moving towards type 9, however, comes from type 3. Type 9, when in relaxed conditions, will exhibit characteristics of type 3.
  
  
• Also notice that in the circular structure of the Enneagram, each type has two neighboring types. The types on either side of each number represent the two wings associated with that number. Wings can be either balanced or one can be heavy while the other is light. Both wings will influence the core personality type, but the weight of their influence will vary from person to person.

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Some charts to help lay out some preliminary ideas about each type:

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The above charts contain information provided by Jerome P. Wagner, Ph.D., but have been reformatted by me.

By far, the key to distinguishing your core type lies with an understanding and analysis of the key motivations of each type. It is tempting to get lost in personality descriptions or to approach Enneagram typology with an eye to how you want to be, as opposed to how you actually are.

Key Motivations of the Types by Riso & Hudson:

1: Want to be right, to strive higher and improve everything, to be consistent with their ideals, to justify themselves, to be beyond criticism so as not to be condemned by anyone.

2: Want to be loved, to express their feelings for others, to be needed and appreciated, to get others to respond to them, to vindicate their claims about themselves.

3: Want to be affirmed, to distinguish themselves from others, to have attention, to be admired, and to impress others.

4: Want to express themselves and their individuality, to create and surround themselves with beauty, to maintain certain moods and feelings, to withdraw to protect their self-image, to take care of emotional needs before attending to anything else, to attract a "rescuer."

5: Want to possess knowledge, to understand the environment, to have everything figured out as a way of defending the self from threats from the environment.

6: Want to have security, to feel supported by others, to have certitude and reassurance, to test the attitudes of others toward them, to fight against anxiety and insecurity.

7: Want to maintain their freedom and happiness, to avoid missing out on worthwhile experiences, to keep themselves excited and occupied, to avoid and discharge pain.

8: Want to be self-reliant, to prove their strength and resist weakness, to be important in their world, to dominate the environment, and to stay in control of their situation.

9: Want to create harmony in their environment, to avoid conflicts and tension, to preserve things as they are, to resist whatever would upset or disturb them.

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I will try to answer questions you may have regarding the Enneagram, and welcome others with an understanding of it to contribute knowledge and answers. I am not an Enneagram scholar by any means, but I've studied it and have more than a passing interest in it.

As elements of the Enneagram are either questioned of me, or as I think of them, I will post new "lessons" as it were.

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Links to some Enneagram tests:

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(I believe this one tests Enneagram and MBTI concurrently)

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[Eleven]

Question: Why is it that you can't have a wing to a non-neighbouring type? What does it mean if you are most like, say, type 2, and then next most like type 8, rather than 1 or 3?

Edit: or most like 2 and then like 9, may be more likely. I always get 8 and 9 mixed up in the enneagram.

[Nikita]

	Originally Posted by Eleven To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Question: Why is it that you can't have a wing to a non-neighbouring type? What does it mean if you are most like, say, type 2, and then next most like type 8, rather than 1 or 3? Edit: or most like 2 and then like 9, may be more likely. I always get 8 and 9 mixed up in the enneagram.

Think of yourself as a bird and your core type as your body. By definition, your wings must be on either side of your body. Thus, the wings for your core type must rest on either side of that type. There is another layer to the Enneagram which I will explore later called the Trifix and, similarly, the Tritype. These account for strengths in other types. But I want to get the basics fleshed out before I move into an explanation of the Trifix and Tritype as they are considered advanced topics and could be unduly confusing at this early juncture.

[Eleven]

Does the bird analogy assume that there is some inherent similarity between neighbouring types, comparative to more distant types?

In some instances, I can see that (e.g. 3 and 4, 1 and 9), but in others it's more obscure (e.g. 6 and 7, 8 and 9).

If you'd like me to stop asking questions so you can put more of your information up on the first page, just let me know.

[Nikita]

	Originally Posted by Eleven To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Does the bird analogy assume that there is some inherent similarity between neighbouring types, comparative to more distant types? In some instances, I can see that (e.g. 3 and 4, 1 and 9), but in others it's more obscure (e.g. 6 and 7, 8 and 9). If you'd like me to stop asking questions so you can put more of your information up on the first page, just let me know.

Feel free to ask!

As far as I know, there is no assumption about the wing being inherently similar to the core type. In fact, the wing can either serve as a complement to the core type, or add contradictory elements. The Enneagram is postulated on the premise that no person is a "pure" personality type. That is, your personality is colored by other elements. These elements include the influence of the wing, but also include the directions of integration and disintegration, the variants (sexual, social, and self-preservation), and the types in the trifix and tritype.

[FreeFall]

This is awesome, thank you for that.

Do you know if our Enneagram map onto our Archetypes?

[WaeV]

5 with a 4 wing.


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[Lymitra]

How did the juxtaposition of the types come to be? Is it based on the Tree of Life alone?

And great charts, thank you.
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[Maja]

	Originally Posted by Lymitra To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How did the juxtaposition of the types come to be? Is it based on the Tree of Life alone? And great charts, thank you. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Where is it identified as based on the tree of life? I'm not disagreeing, or using my question to imply some sort of invalidation of the theory, I've just never myself read or heard that. (I actually like the enneagram way of teaching quite a lot.)

[Lymitra]

Maja, I meant to ask why, for example, the 3 is placed before 4 and not 7 or 9 - because I don't personally believe in the validity of wings; it appears to me the types are randomly placed next to one another. Why can there only be 5w4 and 5w6 if 5w9 should more accurately describe someone?

[Maja]

	Originally Posted by Eleven To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Question: Why is it that you can't have a wing to a non-neighbouring type? What does it mean if you are most like, say, type 2, and then next most like type 8, rather than 1 or 3? Edit: or most like 2 and then like 9, may be more likely. I always get 8 and 9 mixed up in the enneagram.

Because what you are most like at a particular moment is not necessarily what you are. And what you are doesn't identify what you should actually be like.

There is a greater reason the wings are "wings" (some people don't think that they are appropriate to use) ... While the adjoining types are different, they share similar motivations. The important part is that your unconscious motivation is inextricably linked to how you present yourself to the world. It's actually more important that your outside appearance, which would be a list of characteristics. You can't have a wing based on characteristics because that's not what's of ultimate importance.

The enneagram first tries to have you understand how a person like you might react in different situations based on how a person like you initially reacts to the outside world. It takes into account how a "low functioning personality" (i.e. a depressed person) might APPEAR to themselves to have natural reactions that aren't natural at all. Before you decide on a type, you have to make sure that you aren't fudging your information because you're acting like another type to compensate for something. In this way it's like the personality sorter, but it goes further than that. The idea isn't to understand your type. The idea is to understand why your natural strengths and weaknesses are as they are, and to then make yourself a complete person based on the understanding of those strengths and weaknesses.

It's not a new idea for spirituality and psychology to cross -- both religion and analysis deal with the human condition, only in different terms, and they are both living, working concepts.

The enneagram works on precepts not unlike many religious philosophies that teach wholeness of being. While "personality" can be argued to be made up of however-so-many facts of environment or truths of science, this is not the ultimate point of the knowledge. The ultimate point is that "personality" is still a reflection of an ultimately false identity we use in order to communicate with the outside world. With that understanding, the real benefit in studying manifested personality is not to understand what it says about who we are as individuals, but who we could be as members of a greater consciousness (whatever environment that "consciousness" represents). Going further, this expects that consciousness is not defined by an individual's life or biological state of being. It's the difference between the scientific definition of "a mind" and conceptual definition of "idea". That an "idea" cannot come to life in a vacuum, and that by understanding this idea of personality and coming to a place where you can make an impact on the "greater consciousness" of ideas, you realize yourself as a complete person within that greater consciousness. I suppose at this point, psychologists would call this "realization of the self" and religious doctrine would call it something else.

The enneagram takes the concept of personality sorting further, in that it attempts to discuss the negative space that the MBTI and systems like it don't lay out quite as easily. In this way, it is more of an appropriate teaching tool. Whether the wording behind one "type" or the other differs from another system's isn't the point, since the grander idea is to be able to maneuver through life without getting "lost".

Edit: That's still not a great explanation of what you both were asking. That motivation links them is true, but there are different motivations. One sort is based on how you act, and the other is based on why. For example, 5, 6, and 7 have different needs, so act out in different ways, but all act from the "head".

[EDIT: I originally mistyped 4,5, 6, but it was a typo! Sorry for any confusion]

[True Rune]

So I scored 5, then 6, then 9, then 1. Would it be 5 with a wing of 9w1 or 5w6?

[Lymitra]

	There is a greater reason the wings are "wings" (some people don't think that they are appropriate to use) ... While the adjoining types are different, they share similar motivations.

Can you explain what the greater reason is?

If the adjacent types are grouped together based on similar motivations, then I can see how the types in each of the three triads relate to each other. What causes the triads to be placed to each other in the order that they are then?

The enneagram first tries to have you understand how a person like you might react in different situations based on how a person like you initially reacts to the outside world. It takes into account how a "low functioning personality" (i.e. a depressed person) might APPEAR to themselves to have natural reactions that aren't natural at all. Before you decide on a type, you have to make sure that you aren't fudging your information because you're acting like another type to compensate for something. In this way it's like the personality sorter, but it goes further than that.

If you have been low-functioning all of your life, how can you tell if it's the way you are or if you're really another type?

	The ultimate point is that "personality" is still a reflection of an ultimately false identity we use in order to communicate with the outside world.

I disagree because if something is not an inherent part of ourselves, then we would not be able to even fake it. I believe that if we are using a "false" identity at any point, then that faking is a part of our real identity.

	The enneagram takes the concept of personality sorting further, in that it attempts to discuss the negative space that the MBTI and systems like it don't lay out quite as easily.

The MBTI touches on how an unhealthy individual might behave through the eight cognitive processes.

[Maja]

	Originally Posted by Lymitra To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Can you explain what the greater reason is? If the adjacent types are grouped together based on similar motivations, then I can see how the types in each of the three triads relate to each other. What causes the triads to be placed to each other in the order that they are then?

[That they are sorted by motivation] and how they balance with the directions of integration/disintegration.

	If you have been low-functioning all of your life, how can you tell if it's the way you are or if you're really another type?

You study the whole. [EDIT: Let me give a better answer. The main developers and teachers of the system right now suggest not only taking a large test, but then a refining test, then to study the whole with the knowledge that you "appeared to be" connected to a certain home base, but without making judgment yet. Much like people say you hate what is most like you, they suggest paying closer attention to the observations that make you feel the worst, and taking these into account, rather than focusing on the words and expressions to which the ego is already connected.]

	I disagree because if something is not an inherent part of ourselves, then we would not be able to even fake it. I believe that if we are using a "false" identity at any point, then that faking is a part of our real identity.

It's the same thing. It doesn't mean that one thing is not inherently a part of you but that it all is. Both our real self (inner self) and our false self (outer self) are part of our whole self.

	The MBTI touches on how an unhealthy individual might behave through the eight cognitive processes.

That's true, but it's harder for some people to read one method than the other. That's why I was saying "quite as easily." I guess I could have added "for some people." While the MBTI touches on unhealthy reasoning, it doesn't use it as an active part of the process of sorting or realization of self. A lot of people don't seem to take it into account at all, in fact. (I'm not saying people's choice not to pay attention to that part somehow means the creators don't clarify.) I've never taken an online enneagram test so I don't know what depth one of those would be asking for, but generally, the enneagram is supposed to be a complete study where you see your balance within the whole.

Everyone's got ways they like information to be laid out. I don't personally think these two methods disagree, they just come at the same ideas from different angles, similar to the idea of different disciplines discussing the human condition with different language. They're talking about the same things, just in different ways, and with slightly different philosophical flourishes here and there. I guess another way of putting it is that some people like geometry, some like art, and some dance in and out of both.





Maja added to this post, 4 minutes and 54 seconds later...

omg ...

I am going to STFU now because I am usurping Nikita's thread. LOL! I'm sorry, Nikita!

I'm going to bed. <(-_-; ) hehe





Maja added to this post, 51 minutes and 8 seconds later...

	Originally Posted by Lymitra To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Can you explain what the greater reason is? What causes the triads to be placed to each other in the order that they are then?

Argh I can't sleep - I feel so stupid. Forgive me for piping up again and hit me with a sock of wrongness if necessary.

There are two other things I should have mentioned above.

One is that while two adjoining numbers might represent the same obsession, the circle and the triangles (actually, okay, one pattern is represented by a hexad, not a triangle, but it's like a happy triangle) both are figures accounting for a person not being of a static state, laying out an interrelated map of "likely mode of direction," even toward another obsession. So while the "inner pattern" might represent a natural mode of integration or disintegration, and are also balanced by themselves, the circle represents a linear modal relationship. This, for example, might mean than even if I'm a 5, and 5 describes a place ruled by the head, my wing can technically still be a 4, since the way 4 expresses "thinking with the heart" is likely to be close to how a 5 might express the same ideas. That why some people don't use the wing idea, since they feel it implies some sort of completeness when there actually isn't any yet, and just imbalances the whole picture prematurely. I'm sure other people have other ideas about why or why not they should be used, but that's one, in any case.

The other part is the mysticism of how the universe and nature of the human condition are related...

If the alphabet were code for the human condition, and I appeared as J, I would be related to I and K because I was J in the alphabet, in which A is related to B, and B to C, and C to D, and so on. S is inextricably related to X also because they are part of the alphabet, but not in the same way as S is to T. However, S cannot be S outside of the alphabet, since without the alphabet's context, S ceases to exist. As well, the "alphabet" cannot be understood simply as "alphabet", because A, B, C, D, and so on all mean something that adds to the identity of the alphabet. If it was called alphabet but made up of blocks, it might still be called "alphabet," but it would be a different thing. So this would be the same idea, only attached to primes. (Using 1 through 9) I don't know how much Nikita wanted to talk about that so I'm jetting for real now. I'll be excited to talk about this later, though. Ahh... Now I can sleep. I probably just sounded really stupid, but at least I have finished my thought for the evening...





Maja added to this post, 601 minutes and 24 seconds later...

	Originally Posted by Maja To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Where is it identified as based on the tree of life? I'm not disagreeing, or using my question to imply some sort of invalidation of the theory, I've just never myself read or heard that. (I actually like the enneagram way of teaching quite a lot.)

Okay, apparently I took a density pill last night and I know to what she's referring, but I have to disagree.

It's a little misleading to imply (and I kinda did it too) that this is based on any certain mystic idea. What we are talking about is a system more or less created by a psychologist in the 70s, then expanded and refined by a Jesuit seminarian with a social psychology background, as well as many others who continue to help with observations. The majority of the information we are given is based on direct observation of people, not any religious mysticism. To say so is the same as saying physics is mysticism.

It's worth it to see where ideas first came from, and to understand how they inform modern study of our world, but that's only ever part of the story. The Enneagram today is a system informed by ideas that are at the foundation of western philosophical thought, as well as ideas that founded what have now become the study we call psychology. There are also ideas informing the whole that arose out of religious teachings, mostly from our prophetic religions. (Of course, all these studies are related at some point in our histories anyway.) It's not that any of these "self-knowledge" systems, books, or essays we have today are informed by different ideas, it's that they all go at them from different angles and in some cases, ask audiences to aim for something slightly different.

It's correct then, to say that the Tree of Life concept informed the growing concept of what is the Enneagram, but like any humanistic study, the process is supposed to be regarded as a study. The Enneagram of 1899 would not be the Enneagram of 1952. The form taught in 1974 would not be the same as the one taught in 1989. This actually makes it more reliable than some dusty skin dug out of the earth in Anatolia. It's reflecting the observations made from studying many people through a number of perspectives, all with differing backgrounds and beliefs. Keeping the study going makes the system able to reflect the state of things as they are in the present. Pretty much any contemporary theory is going to be like this, whether it be a religious doctrine, a social science, or even a hard science.

[Nikita]

	Originally Posted by FreeFall To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Do you know if our Enneagram map onto our Archetypes?

I have seen what I believe to be archetypes assigned to each Enneagram type's instinctual variants as well as each type itself and each wing set. For the following list, the number represents the Enneagram type, "sp" indicates the self-preservation variant, "sx" indicates the sexual/intimate variant, and "so" indicates the social variant:

1: The Reformer
1w9: The Idealist
1w2: The Advocate
sp1: The Pioneer
sx1: The Evangelist
so1: The Social Registrar

2: The Helper
2w1: The Servant
2w3: The Host/Hostess
sp2: The Nurturer
sx2: The Lover
so2: The Ambassador

3: The Motivator
3w2: The Star
3w4: The Professional
sp3: The Company Man/Woman
sx3: The Movie Star
so3: The Politician

4: The Romantic, The Individualist
4w3: The Aristocrat
4w5: The Bohemian
sp4: The Creative Individualist
sx4: The Drama Queen/King
so4: The Critical Commentator

5: The Thinker, The Investigator
5w4: The Iconoclast
5w6: The Problem Solver
sp5: The Castle Defender
sx5: The Secret Agent
so5: The Professor

6: The Skeptic, The Loyalist
6w5: The Defender
6w7: The Buddy
sp6: The Family Loyalist
sx6: The Warrior
so6: The Social Guardian

7: The Enthusiast
7w6: The Entertainer
7w8: The Realist
sp7: The Gourmand
sx7: The Salesman/woman
so7: The Utopian Visionary

8: The Leader
8w7: The Maverick
8w9: The Bear
sp8: The Survivalist
sx8: The Dictator
so8: The Group/Gang Leader

9: The Peacemaker
9w8: The Comfort Seeker
9w1: The Dreamer
sp9: The Collector
sx9: The Seeker
so9: The Community Benefactor

	Originally Posted by Lymitra To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How did the juxtaposition of the types come to be? Is it based on the Tree of Life alone?

I'm working on this. I need more time to devote to this question than I have at the moment, but I didn't want you to think I was ignoring it!

	Originally Posted by True Rune To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So I scored 5, then 6, then 9, then 1. Would it be 5 with a wing of 9w1 or 5w6?

Your core type would either be 5 or 9. Depending on which type you consider your core type, you would either be a 5w6 OR a 9w1. The "w" stands for "wing". The wing has to be one of the numbers immediately adjacent to the core type. Thus, a 5 could only have a wing of 4 or 6, and a 9 could only have a wing of 8 or 1.

	Originally Posted by WaeV To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	5 with a 4 wing. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Originally Posted by http://theenneagram.blogspot.com/2007/09/type-5.html

5w4 - Seeking Knowledge and Identity To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. The difference between the 4 wing and the 6 wing in Fives is like the difference between Art and Science. 4 wing brings an abstract, intuitive cast of thought, as though the Five were thinking in geometric shapes instead of words or realistic images. May be talented artistically and inhabit moods like Fours do. Combine intellectual and emotional imagination. Enjoy the realm of philosophy and beautiful constructs of thought. The marriage of mental perspective and aesthetics is the best of life for them. When more defensive may seem a little ghostly, have a whisper in their voice. Fluctuate between impersonal withdrawal and bursts of friendly caring. Can get floaty and abstract. Act like they're inside a bubble, sometimes with an air of implicit superiority. Cliché of the "absentminded professor" applies especially to Fives with this wing. Environmentally sensitive and subject at times to total overwhelm. Touchy about criticism. Can be slow to recover from traumatic events. Melancholy isolation and bleak existential depression are possible pitfalls.

	Originally Posted by Lymitra To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Maja, I meant to ask why, for example, the 3 is placed before 4 and not 7 or 9 - because I don't personally believe in the validity of wings; it appears to me the types are randomly placed next to one another. Why can there only be 5w4 and 5w6 if 5w9 should more accurately describe someone?

There is an advanced Enneagram theory called the Trifix and a similar one called the Tritype that address your concern. I will add a section on them soon. I just need time to compile it.

[Shorgenfunkel]

Can you have a variant and a wing?

For example, sx5w4? I'm thinking that might be my type, I know I'm already a 5w4, and a quiz somewhere said that I had the sexual variant.

Or can there only be one or the other?

[Nikita]

	Originally Posted by Shorgenfunkel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Can you have a variant and a wing? For example, sx5w4? I'm thinking that might be my type, I know I'm already a 5w4, and a quiz somewhere said that I had the sexual variant. Or can there only be one or the other?

Most definitely. You always have both.

A personal theory of mine is that your wing also has its own variant. For example, my type is 8w7 sx. I believe that while my overall variant is sx, my 8 has a sexual variant, while my 7 has a social variant. So, this might look like sx8w7so.

[Shorgenfunkel]

Ah. Just typed myself as sx5w4sp. Fits perfectly.

[Maja]

It might be worth it to order these concepts in the writer's own way with their own words. There are so many different questions the system asks you to consider it's difficult to treat it like a questionnaire that attaches to a chart of facts. It's more of a workshop technique.

If you are interested at all, it's worth it to pick up Riso and Hudson's Wisdom of the Enneagram. (The title and cover are questionably cheesy, but don't let it scare you off.) If you're interested in the observations they've gathered, then this book is an alternative to exploring the ideas via a group. There are other books, but this one is intended to be most like a workbook, and is more up to date.

The aim, in their words, is to “stop the automatic reactions of the personality by bringing awareness to it.”

The book also briefly gives the history of the earlier Enneagram versions under Ivanovich Gurdjieff, Oscar Ichazo, and Claudio Naranjo. Although more information on these men can be found elsewhere, the fundamental versions of the material aren't directly relevant here.

Since the figure itself is just an expression of concepts and techniques and doesn't really exist, it's not important once you see what they're trying to diagram. It's just a way to organize a large number of observations on common tendencies so they can be communicated in a more orderly fashion.

This is still my favorite book or information source of its type. I find it to be very open and pleasant to use as a thought starter, when I generally find self help books and personality books of debatable use.

----------------------------------------------------------------

The chapters give information in descending order. They cover how each idea came about, how it matters to the whole, how it effects each other area, and offers suggestions on how to make each piece of information meaningful to you, either in figuring out where to place yourself, or how to start work.

They lay out the work in three stages:

I. Contemplation of basic psychological patterns (types and groups).
II. Contemplation of refinement in personal variation (characteristics).
III. Contemplation of personal transformation (techniques for realization).

Each stage outlines its own supporting information and considerations.

The first chapters, those dealing with the basic psychological patterns, include the ideas of:

1. The Triadic Self

a. Ego presentation
b. Hornevian Groups
c. Harmonic Groups

Following the above order, the below notes are the writer's words along with very brief summations of their topics as they laid them out. (This is solely meant to make some of the author's own structural reasoning easily available to thread readers.)


---------------------------------------------


Triadic Self:
“The Triads are important for transformational work because they specify where our chief imbalance lies. The Triads represent the three main clusters of issues and defenses of the ego self, and they reveal the principal ways in which we contract our awareness and limit ourselves.”

The 9 basic “types” describe areas along a continuum. The continuum supports itself with further relationships creating interior points. These interior points are expressed as the Triadic Self and its related reactions.

The larger concept of "the Triadic Self" describes 3 components of psyche. This is based on the idea that an individual's inborn temperament, along with the effects and expressions of nurture, will always cause a greater reliance on one of the three. In Enneagram theory, this idea is expressed by the three triad figures of “instinctual” types, “feeling” types, and “thinking” types.

The reactions, the way people commonly express of one of the Triad's “main themes,” are separated by ego presentation, the Hornavian groups, and the Harmonic groups.

Ego Presentation:
"When we lose contact with our Essence, the personality attempts to "fill in" by providing a false sense of autonomy. To give us this false sense of autonomy, the personality creates what psychology calls ego boundaries."

The placement along the continuum indicates direction of ego presentation (I.E.: The main reaction caused by each of the the concerns has a tendency to be expressed in 1 of 3 major ways; by either focusing the ego inward, both inward and outward, or outward.)

Three points along the continuum are sorts of anchor points: 6, 3, and 9. (The points on the equilateral.) These indicate areas where the area's given concern is most apparent, and the ego is most defensive. These types focus their energy into creating ego boundaries facing both outside and inside. On either side of these areas, the ego is focused either outward or inward. (So within each Triad figure, which can't be considered directionally ordered because they are in a circle, an order of ego direction prevails (ex: 8-9-1), snapping them to a direction (that of the triangle) based on how the same concerns cause the type to respond slightly differently.


Hornevian Grouping:
“The Hornevian Groups indicate the social style of each type and also how each type tries to get its primary needs met (as indicated by its Triadic Center). Bringing awareness to the ways in which we unconsciously pursue our desires can help us disengage from powerful identifications and wake up.”

Where the Triads themselves can be understood to express major concerns, and the placement within the triads express direction of ego presentation, the “Hornevian Groups tell us the strategy each type employs to get its needs met.”

These 3 groupings of 3 are cross Triadic and about an automatic sense of self -- not necessarily the same as ulterior motivation.

9,5, and 4 share a “Withdrawn” style.
8,7, and 3 an “Assertive" style.
1, 2, and 6 generally use a “Complacent" style.

[Aside: Online sorters like “Personal DNA” seem to use the same idea.]


Harmonic Patterns:
“The Harmonic Groups are useful for transformational work because they indicate how each person copes when they do not get what they want (as indicated by the Triad they are in).Thus they reveal the fundamental way that our personality defends against loss and disappointment.”

They call these groups historically the most likely to misidentify themselves as each other, because they commonly employ similar outlooks. Since an “outlook” is easy to identify the self with, an individual might have trouble knowing themselves enough to see any further underlying concerns once they admit to themselves that they know they are likely to use certain patterns.

These groupings go back around the circle and sort areas of expression into those types likely to employ similar coping mechanisms by either:

1. Trying to keep a positive outlook at all times. (9-2-7)
2. Employing mechanisms based on a feeling of competence. (1-3-5)
3. Rebelling, reacting, and defending. (4-6-8)


Since it sounded like Nikita was preparing an outline of the dynamic, secondary stucture I won't go any further. That's the stage that includes the ideas like wings, instinctual variants, levels of development, and disintegration/integration. The third step deals with your personal practice.

[Superunknown]

I recently took the Enneagram test, and I scored equal and highest on both Type 4 (the artist, the individualist) and Type 5 (the thinker, the investigator). So, does that mean that I would be categorized as a "Five with a dominant Four wing"? Or what exactly would I be categorized as? I'm quite confused by this test, but I have faith someone here will be able to explain it.

[Godzilla]

Because 4's are on the wings of 5's I think you can switch between them depending on the situation. Most likely you're a 5, but can act like a 4 or 6 and when your stressed a 7 and relaxed a 8.
But you might just want to try taking it again, I think I look this test like four times and kept getting 7 even though I'm a 5, but I was always stressed out I guess.

[Maja]

	Originally Posted by Superunknown To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I recently took the Enneagram test, and I scored equal and highest on both Type 4 (the artist, the individualist) and Type 5 (the thinker, the investigator). So, does that mean that I would be categorized as a "Five with a dominant Four wing"? Or what exactly would I be categorized as? I'm quite confused by this test, but I have faith someone here will be able to explain it.

You could be a 4, 5, or even something else. (BTW: Having 4 as your second score and 5 your first doesn't necessarily mean in and of itself you would automatically be a 5w4. It could very well be that you are, but your wing isn't necessarily your second highest score. I was really confused why so many people were giving types as two un-neighboring numbers and why it seemed to throw so many people for a loop, but it never occurred to me that's this is what people were doing. So no. It doesn't work that way. Your wing is not necessarily a second score on a test....for anyone who is wondering.)

You might be able to decide by going through some of the (really exhaustive) articles at:


To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


This is the home site of the teachers who publish the ongoing texts. A lot of their published work is there to read for free.

Godzilla brings up a good point. The various types we score high on can help pin down actual "home" type. Use them rather than letting the range confuse you. For example, if you score high on related "types" then look to see how they interact, you might realize you've essentially drawn a circle around a single type you might not have initially considered likeliest. Numbers and opinions of the moment aren't infallible. It depends on the context, so it's more useful to think of the scores as guides.

I am a 5 with a dominant 4 wing. (Having a wing is different than being of that type.)

A good indicator of why I'm not a 4 are these below examples:

I once was depressed after a family tragedy, surrounded by a group of people equally depressed. I went to see a therapist who was apparently taking me as his last appointment (he was quitting). I was trying to ask him what the best way to recognize depressed actions were and how I should overcome them in myself and my family members. I understood that it was a temporary condition and I wouldn't necessarily be able to tell when anyone was acting irrationally while we were in this state (as is the nature of depression). His "advice" was that I was not my emotions and feelings weren't real. This pissed me off. OF COURSE I knew that. That wasn't what I was asking. I was in a group situation surrounded by depressed people and knowing that I was in control, not my emotions, I chose to seek out his so called "expert" advice on dealing with this touchy situation. The more he kept repeating himself the more frustrated I got with him. I clammed up. Withdrew. I finally found myself fighting to hold back tears. He took this as a sign that he was right all along! I was furious.

For years I thought the man had simply been incompetent but I don't think so any longer. He simply misconstrued who I was. If I had been a 4 type person, the idea that my self and my emotions were different things would have been a life shattering bombshell! Instead, for a 5 type person, the concept of existing without your thoughts is scary. You are protected for whatever reason by your thought-noise, and to stop it feels like stopping yourself.

Although I'm an artist, which people associate with 4 and not 5, it's not the expression but the patterns behind the expression that mean something. The two people would paint totally different things.

A 4 would paint themselves, their child, their lover, their pain, their face, their joy, their lives. Then take their autobiography on the road so their story could "touch others" (while actually hiding in the background until the show is over).

A 5 is more likely to paint something like a sheep standing upside down on a tree. Then laugh about it while getting insistently frothy and asking, "No, seriously, what does it really mean?"

Both would be intensely emotional experiences for the painter. That this is true is also a good tip why someone reasoning, "I think a lot, so I must be a 5!" might not be a 5 at all.

Post Script: I don't much like the idea of pairing types with profession examples, saying one is more scientific than another, or artistic than another, etc... These surface readings alone can lead people to misjudgments about how complicated the human character actually can be and why. I often say I'm a 5 with both wings because of my individual propensity for certain issues and attitudes. This helps me look at my actions and hopefully alter them for the better. If I believed someone who told me, "Oh, you can't do XXX thing. Scientific minded people do that, and you're so artsy, right?" I would be doing myself a disservice.

[Merle]

I've done the enneagram a few times and it interests me a lot... but I'm still unsure of my type. I just did it again and my results were, in order, :5,9,6,8,1 etc
So it put me as a 5w6...I've got that result before, more often than anything else, however, I'm not entirely convinced that is what I am-- I feel like 9 fits me more...

On this go, and every other time, my result for 4 is either the lowest or very near the bottom... you said earlier that you have both wings just one more than the other... so the really low 4 result backs up my feeling that I'm a 9; does that sound a plausible idea?

Edit: Yeah, I think I may be an sx9w8sp

[Maja]

Originally Posted by Merle To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I've done the enneagram a few times and it interests me a lot... but I'm still unsure of my type. I just did it again and my results were, in order, :5,9,6,8,1 etc So it put me as a 5w6...I've got that result before, more often than anything else, however, I'm not entirely convinced that is what I am-- I feel like 9 fits me more... On this go, and every other time, my result for 4 is either the lowest or very near the bottom... you said earlier that you have both wings just one more than the other... so the really low 4 result backs up my feeling that I'm a 9; does that sound a plausible idea? Edit: Yeah, I think I may be an sx9w8sp

Yeah... My mom is a 9 (she typed herself). 9 and 5 look similar in a lot of respects but are quite different. 9s are said to mistype themselves as 5s very often, and to often have a harder time typing themselves at all. In my mom's case this was definitely true. It was also for one of the same reasons they state -- that close introspection for her is uncomfortable because the possibility of confrontation creates anxiety.

5s, 4s and 9s all share a withdrawn style (the Hornevian grouping) so this is a possible reason why 5 or 4 might show up for you at all. The fact that you made high marks on 9, 8, and 1 together would make me suspect you were a 9 before a 5, regardless of whether 5 was your highest score. You had the right idea to go with your gut and back that up with the information about the surrounding psyches.

Good luck with your study. I know that for my mom, who had already used the MBTI, the Enneagram was a very different experience. I think this had to do with how the system, even from day one, forces you to question your behavior and that of other people, which was not natural for her.

[JohnDoe]

	Originally Posted by Nikita To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Most definitely. You always have both. A personal theory of mine is that your wing also has its own variant. For example, my type is 8w7 sx. I believe that while my overall variant is sx, my 8 has a sexual variant, while my 7 has a social variant. So, this might look like sx8w7so.

I apparently am an 8w7 except I scored sx for both my wing and variant. What is this supposed to mean (variant on the wing)?