How To Deal With Society's Niceties?

**floramacivor** · 01-03-2009, 10:59 PM

As an INTJ, I don't think I'm alone in having a problem with the routine of greetings, small talk and goodbyes. I find greetings annoying at times, small talk a waste of time, and good-byes awkward. Yet these are the pleasantries that are expected in order to be accepted in the world. I don't really like talking on the phone in general, but when a call begins, the other person asks, "How are you doing?" and I'm supposed to say, "Fine, and how are you?" as if I'm enjoying this exchange, while I'm actually thinking, "do we really have to go through this mundane routine *every* time we start a conversation? How long does this need to go on? Can't we just get right to the matter at hand?"

My husband thinks it's Very Important that, every time a family member comes home or gets up in the morning, one of these friendly exchanges must take place, and every time anyone leaves the house, goodbyes are said. I try to accomodate him, but the whole thing feels...awkward and annoying. I don't mean to sound callous, and I understand that manners and pleasantries make the world a nicer place, I really do - but I have a hard time playing the part and following through on those things every single time.

So, how does a INTJ deal with these things? Just grin and bear it, and try to pretend that these things aren't as trivial as they feel, or are there ways to minimize the discomfort?

**Nihilum** · 01-03-2009, 11:01 PM

It's not a big deal compared to the other things INTJs face. I really don't mind hellos and goodbyes, I just hate small talk.

**noueux** · 01-03-2009, 11:10 PM

I hate saying hello, particularly over the internet. I feel like it's a waste of time, and I'd rather open up my conversation with something much more interesting.

Goodbyes, I have to say, became a lot more important to me after my family was affected by death and disease. We say Goodbye, and I love you, whenever we leave someplace, or hang up the phone, or whatever, because we're well aware that it could be the last thing we're saying to that person. Having been in the position to say some damn serious goodbyes, I think even the little ritual "byes" hold more meaning for me now.

**amberlinen** · 01-03-2009, 11:43 PM

Those are like eating and sleeping; you don't like it, it's a waste of time, but you have to do it to avoid unnecessary conflicts. I think if I perform those well, they will give other people a nice feeling of being respected, so at least someone can get something out of it.

**Necrosis** · 01-03-2009, 11:47 PM

I understand completely. I usually just leave the room and people have told me before that they think im rude or hate them because I never tell them goodbye. I just don't see the point. When it comes to relationships, I realized I had the problem of saying I love you. Not because I didn't mean it. My g/f would always say it first. I could never be caught dead initiating it. I just don't see the point. If I love you ill show it through actions. It drives me nuts trying to do what other people think it's needed and when I don't do it, they call me cynical. I still haven't figured out a solution.

**maxpot46** · 01-03-2009, 11:53 PM

It's just something you have to get used to. Once you've systematized it (i.e. accumulated enough stock phrases, questions, and responses) it's actually pretty easy. Despite going against our natures and preferences, it's worth building the skill up to at least a functional degree because try as you might, you can't avoid group situations forever and when you're in one, it's better to have them with you than against you, whatever your overall goals might be.

**Vagrant** · 01-04-2009, 01:47 AM

I don't really like talking on the phone in general, but when a call begins, the other person asks, "How are you doing?" and I'm supposed to say, "Fine, and how are you?" as if I'm enjoying this exchange, while I'm actually thinking, "do we really have to go through this mundane routine *every* time we start a conversation? How long does this need to go on? Can't we just get right to the matter at hand?"

I totally know what you mean -- when I was younger, one of my good friends actually had to teach me to do these niceties. I never understood them. Still don't. I just put up with it because it's not too much of a bother for a lot more respect.

**IceDream** · 01-04-2009, 03:32 AM

I hate these social rituals, too, but they are essential if you don't want to unwittingly accrue enemies. I have taught myself to greet everyone in my section by name when I arrive at work. I have to steel myself to do this. As I walk up the stairs to the office, I psyche myself into being pleasant.

Why?

Because in the past, I have had colleagues approach me and tell me they were hurt because I hadn't greeted them.

I found that amazing. I wouldn't have the faintest idea who had greeted me in the morning and who had not. It's of no interest to me. Yet, there were these individuals going around their business holding a grudge against me because I hadn't said: "Good morning".

Not long ago, an ENFJ colleague came up to me and said: "IceDream, I just want to apologise. I'm sorry I've been ignoring you. It's just that I was hurt by the feedback you gave me on my paper."

She went on to explain that she hadn't said good morning or good evening to me for a week and that she was feeling guilty about it.

Of course, I hadn't even noticed.

**Brilliance** · 01-04-2009, 04:30 AM

I've become quite use to the standard hello/goodbye type of thing despite my lack of effort into it. I understand the awkward state that seems to arise every time. I find 'small talk' alot more annoying alot of the time, but if I take it in small doses I can get by day to day alright.

How I deal with these things, well.. I'd say I don't really deal with them unforunately, It seems they are just tolerated - For small talk I try to leave the room or area or, yeah.. We are burdened by the way society expects everyone to act.

**vertex** · 01-04-2009, 05:06 AM

i make it a point when i meet someone new to say a simple hello, each time i pass

after 3 times or so, they feel they know you, and strike up a conversation
met loads of interesting people that way

used to hate it, now i really dont mind it

**Jgib5328** · 01-04-2009, 07:06 AM

They're annoying, but necessary. I hate small talk, smiling when I speak, greetings, etc. but it's something that you have to do, because others value it. Of course you don't have to do them, but you won't function well in society and you'll rub people the wrong way.

**Vagrant** · 01-04-2009, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by IceDream
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I hate these social rituals, too, but they are essential if you don't want to unwittingly accrue enemies. I have taught myself to greet everyone in my section by name when I arrive at work. I have to steel myself to do this. As I walk up the stairs to the office, I psyche myself into being pleasant.

Why?

Because in the past, I have had colleagues approach me and tell me they were hurt because I hadn't greeted them.

I found that amazing. I wouldn't have the faintest idea who had greeted me in the morning and who had not. It's of no interest to me. Yet, there were these individuals going around their business holding a grudge against me because I hadn't said: "Good morning".

Not long ago, an ENFJ colleague came up to me and said: "IceDream, I just want to apologise. I'm sorry I've been ignoring you. It's just that I was hurt by the feedback you gave me on my paper."

She went on to explain that she hadn't said good morning or good evening to me for a week and that she was feeling guilty about it.

Of course, I hadn't even noticed.

Wahahhahahahaa.

Yeah, I never even notice if somebody says good morning to me unless I don't know them. To think that somebody could actually be guilty about not saying good morning? Wow.

**blckprljinju** · 01-04-2009, 11:49 AM

things like "how are you?" and "fine, thanks. You?" have become sort of an automatic response for me... even when i'm feeling like crap, i find myself answering, "fine, and you?"... and then thinking, "wait.... I'm not feeling fine... why did I answer that way?"

i never notice when people say things to me because I'm either zoned out or listening to music anyways, so i'm always surprised if someone is upset with me for not saying "hi". however, because i know not everyone is like me, if i do notice someone i know passing by, i will give them some sort of acknowledgment, like a brief smile or a nod...

because we're the minority, we do have to learn some things, like "table etiquette" for a job interview, and whatnot... only if to get us by further in life. i'm willing to use those societal niceties to the best of my abilities if it gets me what i want/need... even if standing zoned out while people are making small talk around me.
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**Zombicide** · 01-04-2009, 12:14 PM

The normal stuff doesn't much bother me anyway, as long as the person isn't some **** with an obsession with these niceties (though they aren't very nice) and actually gets angry if they aren't done traditionally. I remember a guy kept complaining that I wasn't conducting myself with his ridiculous southern etiquette crap, it was annoying, we aren't even in the south, I swear to Satan I hate that guy. Just to see the reaction, I've started going for a change of pace, now when someone asks me how I'm doing, I often say something like terrible in a nonchalant manner as if I were giving the standard "oh, fine and how are you?". As far as greetings and good byes go, they're clearly necessary to an extent, so that you know what's going on when someone's leaving and so that it's not awkward when you encounter them, the ones that bother me are the long needlessly drawn out ones. Under normal circumstances, something along the lines of a simple "hello" or "hey" should suffice and when it comes to good byes "Alright, well, I've got to get going" and what not.

**Sesquipedalian** · 01-04-2009, 12:45 PM

Here is how you deal with the niceties.

You wait 'till they're asleep, then you sneak up and stab them.

**bluevelvet** · 01-04-2009, 01:11 PM

People cross there legs and arms when I speak to them;not a good sign :-)

Sinequanon · 01-04-2009, 01:16 PM

I think the answer is you just "be nice." It won't kill you to waste a couple of words to appease the people around you every once in a while.
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**Sesshoumaru** · 01-04-2009, 01:28 PM

I try and just go along with it for a bit. The 'hellos' and 'goodbyes' don't bother me too much. Small talk doesn't bother me too much mainly because if anyone tries to engage me in smalltalk there usually ends up being prolonged periods of silence XD

**Chronos** · 01-04-2009, 01:54 PM

I get the point of these rituals - they just don't come naturally to me. Small talk, especially with strangers, is often hard for me. I'm constantly thinking that there has to be a point to all this, some ultimate goal, whereas I realise that for most other people, the banter and niceties are self-contained; i.e. their point is to make feel people feel better, and closer to each other. I, however, just don't seem to need this sort of thing to feel good, or to have a good connection with someone else.

I think Mia Farrow (In Pulp Fiction) said it best:

"That's when you know you've found somebody special. When you can just shut the fuck up for a minute and comfortably enjoy the silence."

I grinned at this when I first saw that film, and now, 15 years down the line, I still find it pretty profound.

**Tyrant Soup** · 01-04-2009, 02:34 PM

One practice that I still find puzzling is when someone says "bless you" when another sneezes. Why are they deserving of a blessing?

**Chronos** · 01-04-2009, 02:37 PM

	Originally Posted by Tyrant Soup To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	One practice that I still find puzzling is when someone says "bless you" when another sneezes. Why are they deserving of a blessing?

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are some possible explanations, although the exact reason will probably remain unknown.

Funnily enough, I always say this when someone sneezes. Perhaps it's just because I find sneezing funny, and like to make it known that I heard the sneeze. :P

On a general level, our languages are full of these 'stock phrases' that are supposed to be said on specific occasions, but don't really mean anything beyond that. Again, I get the point of them, but beyond that - I just find a lot of them unnecessary.

**Sesquipedalian** · 01-04-2009, 03:12 PM

	Originally Posted by Tyrant Soup To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	One practice that I still find puzzling is when someone says "bless you" when another sneezes. Why are they deserving of a blessing?

!!! I was walking back to my car in a Walmart parking lot a couple of days ago. I sneezed loudly and a woman 20 feet away, not looking up at me or changing course at all (she was heading the opposite direction), shouts "Bless you!"

It struck me as really really strange behavior and totally compulsive.

I'm a man of faith and, even so, I find the whole "bless you" thing 1) horribly superficial 2) a phrase for ignorant people, since it originally stemmed from the idea that one's heart stops when he sneezes, or that one's soul momentarily leaves one's body, making it susceptible to demonic attack, during a sneeze.

**scarlet** · 01-04-2009, 03:25 PM

I always believed 'bless you' to originate from the time of the Great Plague, when a sneeze could be the first symptom of the Black Death.

**Ace1337** · 01-04-2009, 03:46 PM

I don't mind saying hello and goodbye, but I do hate small talk. Today my relatives came to visit from another town. There were a lot of them. I entered the room, said: "Hi everyone", shaked hands and didn't know what else to say. I didn't really care how they were because they come once every two years. I knew they were boring sensers who rarely say anything interesting. I sat down near their 6 year old kid and said: "Hi, how are you" with that Fe sound everybody makes around little kids. It felt awkward but I had to act like I cared. They asked me a question to brake the silence because the kid was also shy and didn't answer. I said something and they continued talking. After 10 minutes I left to my room because I was bored to death.

How do you act around little kids you don't know? I am all weird when a baby comes into the house. My ISFJ mother is all over it: "Hi little baby, guchy goo, you are so sweet, YES you are, yes you are" omg I need to vomit. My ESTJ father is a little more rough but he also uses his Fe pretty good, and always thinks of stupid things to say to the kid. But I'm always awkward with babies. It's not like I don't have emotions. My brother was born when I was 14 and I am pretty close to him from the first days. I play with him, teach him stuff, make stupid faces, make him laugh, hug him, but that's because I have known him for 6 years and he is my brother. I can't act like that with a kid who I've seen for the first time today.

**Sesshoumaru** · 01-04-2009, 04:21 PM

I tend to ignore little kids I don't know.

My little cousin occasionally has his friends over same time that I am and basically I tend to just ignore them unless he (My cousin that is) explicitly asks me for something (Which isn't very often because he's learned not to bother me except in matters of video games XD)

01-03-2009, 10:59 PM	#1
floramacivor Member [42%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,714	As an INTJ, I don't think I'm alone in having a problem with the routine of greetings, small talk and goodbyes. I find greetings annoying at times, small talk a waste of time, and good-byes awkward. Yet these are the pleasantries that are expected in order to be accepted in the world. I don't really like talking on the phone in general, but when a call begins, the other person asks, "How are you doing?" and I'm supposed to say, "Fine, and how are you?" as if I'm enjoying this exchange, while I'm actually thinking, "do we really have to go through this mundane routine every time we start a conversation? How long does this need to go on? Can't we just get right to the matter at hand?" My husband thinks it's Very Important that, every time a family member comes home or gets up in the morning, one of these friendly exchanges must take place, and every time anyone leaves the house, goodbyes are said. I try to accomodate him, but the whole thing feels...awkward and annoying. I don't mean to sound callous, and I understand that manners and pleasantries make the world a nicer place, I really do - but I have a hard time playing the part and following through on those things every single time. So, how does a INTJ deal with these things? Just grin and bear it, and try to pretend that these things aren't as trivial as they feel, or are there ways to minimize the discomfort?
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01-03-2009, 11:01 PM	#2
Nihilum Member [17%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 709	It's not a big deal compared to the other things INTJs face. I really don't mind hellos and goodbyes, I just hate small talk.
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01-03-2009, 11:10 PM	#3
noueux Member [05%] MBTI: INTj Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 215	I hate saying hello, particularly over the internet. I feel like it's a waste of time, and I'd rather open up my conversation with something much more interesting. Goodbyes, I have to say, became a lot more important to me after my family was affected by death and disease. We say Goodbye, and I love you, whenever we leave someplace, or hang up the phone, or whatever, because we're well aware that it could be the last thing we're saying to that person. Having been in the position to say some damn serious goodbyes, I think even the little ritual "byes" hold more meaning for me now.
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01-03-2009, 11:43 PM	#4
amberlinen Member [02%] MBTI: INTX Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 117	Those are like eating and sleeping; you don't like it, it's a waste of time, but you have to do it to avoid unnecessary conflicts. I think if I perform those well, they will give other people a nice feeling of being respected, so at least someone can get something out of it.
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01-03-2009, 11:47 PM	#5
Necrosis Core Member [102%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4,113	I understand completely. I usually just leave the room and people have told me before that they think im rude or hate them because I never tell them goodbye. I just don't see the point. When it comes to relationships, I realized I had the problem of saying I love you. Not because I didn't mean it. My g/f would always say it first. I could never be caught dead initiating it. I just don't see the point. If I love you ill show it through actions. It drives me nuts trying to do what other people think it's needed and when I don't do it, they call me cynical. I still haven't figured out a solution.
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01-03-2009, 11:53 PM	#6
maxpot46 Member [07%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 316	It's just something you have to get used to. Once you've systematized it (i.e. accumulated enough stock phrases, questions, and responses) it's actually pretty easy. Despite going against our natures and preferences, it's worth building the skill up to at least a functional degree because try as you might, you can't avoid group situations forever and when you're in one, it's better to have them with you than against you, whatever your overall goals might be.
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01-04-2009, 03:32 AM	#8
IceDream Member [03%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 156	I hate these social rituals, too, but they are essential if you don't want to unwittingly accrue enemies. I have taught myself to greet everyone in my section by name when I arrive at work. I have to steel myself to do this. As I walk up the stairs to the office, I psyche myself into being pleasant. Why? Because in the past, I have had colleagues approach me and tell me they were hurt because I hadn't greeted them. I found that amazing. I wouldn't have the faintest idea who had greeted me in the morning and who had not. It's of no interest to me. Yet, there were these individuals going around their business holding a grudge against me because I hadn't said: "Good morning". Not long ago, an ENFJ colleague came up to me and said: "IceDream, I just want to apologise. I'm sorry I've been ignoring you. It's just that I was hurt by the feedback you gave me on my paper." She went on to explain that she hadn't said good morning or good evening to me for a week and that she was feeling guilty about it. Of course, I hadn't even noticed.
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01-04-2009, 04:30 AM	#9
Brilliance Member [04%] MBTI: INTj Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 170	I've become quite use to the standard hello/goodbye type of thing despite my lack of effort into it. I understand the awkward state that seems to arise every time. I find 'small talk' alot more annoying alot of the time, but if I take it in small doses I can get by day to day alright. How I deal with these things, well.. I'd say I don't really deal with them unforunately, It seems they are just tolerated - For small talk I try to leave the room or area or, yeah.. We are burdened by the way society expects everyone to act.
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01-04-2009, 05:06 AM	#10
vertex Member [10%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 410	i make it a point when i meet someone new to say a simple hello, each time i pass after 3 times or so, they feel they know you, and strike up a conversation met loads of interesting people that way used to hate it, now i really dont mind it
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01-04-2009, 07:06 AM	#11
Jgib5328 Member [47%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,896	They're annoying, but necessary. I hate small talk, smiling when I speak, greetings, etc. but it's something that you have to do, because others value it. Of course you don't have to do them, but you won't function well in society and you'll rub people the wrong way.
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01-04-2009, 11:49 AM	#13
blckprljinju Member [08%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 330	things like "how are you?" and "fine, thanks. You?" have become sort of an automatic response for me... even when i'm feeling like crap, i find myself answering, "fine, and you?"... and then thinking, "wait.... I'm not feeling fine... why did I answer that way?" i never notice when people say things to me because I'm either zoned out or listening to music anyways, so i'm always surprised if someone is upset with me for not saying "hi". however, because i know not everyone is like me, if i do notice someone i know passing by, i will give them some sort of acknowledgment, like a brief smile or a nod... because we're the minority, we do have to learn some things, like "table etiquette" for a job interview, and whatnot... only if to get us by further in life. i'm willing to use those societal niceties to the best of my abilities if it gets me what i want/need... even if standing zoned out while people are making small talk around me. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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01-04-2009, 12:14 PM	#14
Zombicide Core Member [105%] MBTI: INTj Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,222	The normal stuff doesn't much bother me anyway, as long as the person isn't some ** with an obsession with these niceties (though they aren't very nice) and actually gets angry if they aren't done traditionally. I remember a guy kept complaining that I wasn't conducting myself with his ridiculous southern etiquette crap, it was annoying, we aren't even in the south, I swear to Satan I hate that guy. Just to see the reaction, I've started going for a change of pace, now when someone asks me how I'm doing, I often say something like terrible in a nonchalant manner as if I were giving the standard "oh, fine and how are you?". As far as greetings and good byes go, they're clearly necessary to an extent, so that you know what's going on when someone's leaving and so that it's not** awkward when you encounter them, the ones that bother me are the long needlessly drawn out ones. Under normal circumstances, something along the lines of a simple "hello" or "hey" should suffice and when it comes to good byes "Alright, well, I've got to get going" and what not.
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01-04-2009, 12:45 PM	#15
Sesquipedalian Member [18%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 725	Here is how you deal with the niceties. You wait 'till they're asleep, then you sneak up and stab them.
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01-04-2009, 01:11 PM	#16
bluevelvet New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 61	People cross there legs and arms when I speak to them;not a good sign :-)
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01-04-2009, 01:16 PM	#17
Sinequanon Veteran Member [96%] MBTI: INFJ Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,879	I think the answer is you just "be nice." It won't kill you to waste a couple of words to appease the people around you every once in a while. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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01-04-2009, 01:28 PM	#18
Sesshoumaru Member [06%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 247	I try and just go along with it for a bit. The 'hellos' and 'goodbyes' don't bother me too much. Small talk doesn't bother me too much mainly because if anyone tries to engage me in smalltalk there usually ends up being prolonged periods of silence XD
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01-04-2009, 01:54 PM	#19
Chronos Member [08%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 327	I get the point of these rituals - they just don't come naturally to me. Small talk, especially with strangers, is often hard for me. I'm constantly thinking that there has to be a point to all this, some ultimate goal, whereas I realise that for most other people, the banter and niceties are self-contained; i.e. their point is to make feel people feel better, and closer to each other. I, however, just don't seem to need this sort of thing to feel good, or to have a good connection with someone else. I think Mia Farrow (In Pulp Fiction) said it best: "That's when you know you've found somebody special. When you can just shut the fuck up for a minute and comfortably enjoy the silence." I grinned at this when I first saw that film, and now, 15 years down the line, I still find it pretty profound.
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01-04-2009, 02:34 PM	#20
Tyrant Soup Member [40%] MBTI: intj Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,608	One practice that I still find puzzling is when someone says "bless you" when another sneezes. Why are they deserving of a blessing?
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01-04-2009, 03:25 PM	#23
scarlet New Member [01%] MBTI: intj Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 22	I always believed 'bless you' to originate from the time of the Great Plague, when a sneeze could be the first symptom of the Black Death.
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01-04-2009, 03:46 PM	#24
Ace1337 Member [10%] MBTI: ENTJ Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 402	I don't mind saying hello and goodbye, but I do hate small talk. Today my relatives came to visit from another town. There were a lot of them. I entered the room, said: "Hi everyone", shaked hands and didn't know what else to say. I didn't really care how they were because they come once every two years. I knew they were boring sensers who rarely say anything interesting. I sat down near their 6 year old kid and said: "Hi, how are you" with that Fe sound everybody makes around little kids. It felt awkward but I had to act like I cared. They asked me a question to brake the silence because the kid was also shy and didn't answer. I said something and they continued talking. After 10 minutes I left to my room because I was bored to death. How do you act around little kids you don't know? I am all weird when a baby comes into the house. My ISFJ mother is all over it: "Hi little baby, guchy goo, you are so sweet, YES you are, yes you are" omg I need to vomit. My ESTJ father is a little more rough but he also uses his Fe pretty good, and always thinks of stupid things to say to the kid. But I'm always awkward with babies. It's not like I don't have emotions. My brother was born when I was 14 and I am pretty close to him from the first days. I play with him, teach him stuff, make stupid faces, make him laugh, hug him, but that's because I have known him for 6 years and he is my brother. I can't act like that with a kid who I've seen for the first time today.
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01-04-2009, 04:21 PM	#25
Sesshoumaru Member [06%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 247	I tend to ignore little kids I don't know. My little cousin occasionally has his friends over same time that I am and basically I tend to just ignore them unless he (My cousin that is) explicitly asks me for something (Which isn't very often because he's learned not to bother me except in matters of video games XD)
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