[Thinker]

Originally Posted by Perf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Sure, that would be ideal, but how many times does an INTJ get tabbed for that job? I know from experience that the best scenario for me is one where the company is in crisis and needs innovative solutions. Considering this, the best thing to happen for me may well be an economic downturn. The other side is that everybody comes to me already anyways and subverts my boss (an ISTJ), so life isn't too bad.

Perf
I guess that I learned pretty early on that I wasn't a political animal at work - and I also learned that being good at what you do is not enough to get promoted in a large organisation - you need to beat your chest every time you do something well - you need to be friendly and social with supervisors. Visibility was far more important than a high level of competence.......I would suggest that we INTJ's are not very good at being visible.

I might add that when I started work unemployment here was over 12% - and I had a friend who was a Phd graduate and the only job he could get was running a photocopier in a copy room - so competition for jobs was fairly intense.

I decided that I would be better off (with a degree) in a smaller organisation - where I could be noticed more easily and where I might find a mentor. I didn't ever find a mentor - but my strategy did work.

[Perf]

Originally Posted by Thinker To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Perf I guess that I learned pretty early on that I wasn't a political animal at work - and I also learned that being good at what you do is not enough to get promoted in a large organisation - you need to beat your chest every time you do something well - you need to be friendly and social with supervisors. Visibility was far more important than a high level of competence.......I would suggest that we INTJ's are not very good at being visible. I might add that when I started work unemployment here was over 12% - and I had a friend who was a Phd graduate and the only job he could get was running a photocopier in a copy room - so competition for jobs was fairly intense. I decided that I would be better off (with a degree) in a smaller organisation - where I could be noticed more easily and where I might find a mentor. I didn't ever find a mentor - but my strategy did work.

Thanks Thinker. I guess I view my role, and maybe my goal, as being a mentor. In addition, I don't mind being second in command and making people above me look good, so long as I believe in what they're doing. I get real satisfaction from watching people above and below me grow from interaction with me and if they use the tools I have showed them and found it to be successful. I have no use for overt recognition, nor any competitive desire to be at the top of my profession.

[Thinker]

Perf
I agree with absolutely everything you said. It is very rewarding to watch people and the organisation grow though your efforts. I enjoy the role of mentor.

Also...I should have mentioned in my first post, my original motivation was more of a drive not to be at the bottom - than to actually be at the top of an organisation. I was also not motivated by being at the top of my profession - more of a motivation just to be the best I could.

I did reach CEO when the timing was right - I was a "reluctant" CEO. Leading, and being in the "limelight" is not natural to me. - it can really sap my energy levels. But it enabled me to continue to grow and learn a whole lot of new skills - I was also becoming stale in a "technical" role. So I was able to re-define myself - something I think INTJ's need from time to time to stop becoming stale.

[Frodis]

	In my limited experience in 4 jobs, the lazy bastards get fired, and the best get promoted...

That's funny, in my experience, the lazy bastards get promoted and the best get to do the grunt work (or are so dissatisfied that they leave to find something better). Seriously. If you are too proficient at your current job, expect to be in it forever. If you suck, you'll soon be an assistant director of something. Hell sometimes they even CREATE cushy new upper-level positions to shunt the lazy bastards an inept hacks into.

Perhaps I'm generalizing a bit, but this seems to be a common pattern in several of my former workplaces.

[Nomadofthehills]

In one case, I quit to show the company how useless they were without me. I was rehired with a 25% pay increase. :D

/brag

[Perf]

Originally Posted by Thinker To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Perf I agree with absolutely everything you said. It is very rewarding to watch people and the organisation grow though your efforts. I enjoy the role of mentor. Also...I should have mentioned in my first post, my original motivation was more of a drive not to be at the bottom - than to actually be at the top of an organisation. I was also not motivated by being at the top of my profession - more of a motivation just to be the best I could. I did reach CEO when the timing was right - I was a "reluctant" CEO. Leading, and being in the "limelight" is not natural to me. - it can really sap my energy levels. But it enabled me to continue to grow and learn a whole lot of new skills - I was also becoming stale in a "technical" role. So I was able to re-define myself - something I think INTJ's need from time to time to stop becoming stale.

Sounds good. I'm in the embryonic stages of that process now, just to see if I really want to stay where I am.

[LaoTzu]

I've been in that situation and figured out that you can't adjust your work to reflect what the others are doing....(or maybe it just didn't work for me)

They expect it from you after a while. Really the only thing I think of for you to do is sit with the management, and tell them exactly how you feel about it. Say that you want to be compensated fairly, and that you will give them time to rectify the situation. They may or may not go for it (probably not) but you will have confronted the problem fairly from both sides.

And when you find another job, you will realize the benefit of good negotiating skills when you agree on a higher than average starting salary
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[Robertwb70]

Originally Posted by Frodis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

That's funny, in my experience, the lazy bastards get promoted and the best get to do the grunt work (or are so dissatisfied that they leave to find something better). Seriously. If you are too proficient at your current job, expect to be in it forever. If you suck, you'll soon be an assistant director of something. Hell sometimes they even CREATE cushy new upper-level positions to shunt the lazy bastards an inept hacks into. Perhaps I'm generalizing a bit, but this seems to be a common pattern in several of my former workplaces.

I saw a similar trend when I was in the Army, we called it the " F%$k up, Move up" promotion system.

I've also had jobs where I saw others get promoted or recognized above/ before/ more than I was because they "showed improvement" while I had apparently not. Needless to say if they had improved 200% they would still not be at the level of performance I was at all along. It was like telling an Olympic caliber marathoner he's cut from the team because he hasn't shown improvement and replacing him with a guy that has just broken the 10 minute mile barrier...