[shiggityjoe]

Hey guys,

So I'm in the middle of crisis-in-major. As is typical, I've way over-analyzed this decision and can't make choice and it's taking over all my time trying to pick the right one....I'm an entrepreneurship major, in the business school, and I picked it because I want to start my own company - but thus far it's been very unfullfilling and entirely commonsense. Others around me are challenged, and I find myself getting B's and C's with no effort because I'm insanely bored...just waiting to get back to my dorm room to get back to self-directed learning.

I find myself programming, working with hobby electronics and robotics, and reading economics books / watching a ton of TED Talks. Guess it's that information hound in me. I've always loved taking things apart to see how they worked, and building things, be them forts/websites/business plans.

Anyway, so I'm pretty annoyed with the standard business major. Creativity and independence are big for me and I cant stand being told exactly how i have to do things (which rules out accounting, and finance). Entrepreneurship major feels like a bunch of fluff, and I have already learned about startups from a dot-com startup I worked at for past year.

Anyway, I'm leaning towards Economics, Poli. Sci, Engineering, or CS. I am having the hardest time deciding....

I'm not a big fan of math, but then again I've never gotten to see it's applications except for in high school physics and stuff (which i loved). I also aced Economics and Poli. Sci in high school, so...yeah.

Anyway, just was hoping to find a fellow INTJ on here who may have dealt with some of the stuff I have in trying to decide the course of the rest of my life/ i.e. picking major.

Oh yeah, one last thing. Since I'm a junior and in the business school, if I go with economics I will be done on time - in another 3 semesters. If I switch to engineering then it will take like 3 or 4 years because of nearly zero cross-compatible courses.

[note to self: stop saying 'anyway']

[Sean O]

	I find myself programming, working with hobby electronics and robotics... ...I've always loved taking things apart to see how they worked, and building things...

Sounds like computer engineering would be perfect for you.

[OrrDavey]

I did economics and thought it was OK. Some of the classes are really easy, a few are pretty hard. Most of the information was actually pretty interesting, though.

And I felt that those classes gave me a good idea of how the world really works. "Follow the money."

[citationneeded]

I can understand the frustration with your position. I started off college in the liberal arts school studying math and philosophy. Heuristically, those were very fulfilling curricula for me. However, I decided to apply as a double degree student to the Business School as well, in part because (and wrongly so, in my opinion) employers want skill ready employees in entry level positions.

The only reason I can tolerate the business school though is because I am studying Management Information Systems, which gives me practical exposure to topics such as database development and systems analysis. It allows for "structured creativity" in making efficient systems. If your school offers a program in either this or Supply Chain Management, it might satisfy your quantitative bent but at the same time use certain courses you already have. If you do decide to explore math, you might like the more practical courses in math (such as prob. and statistics).

[jadefalcon]

It seems like you would fit into CMPET (Penn States fancy word for Computer Programming, I believe) or an Engineering course. Programming can be tedius, but if you are teaching yourself then why not pursue it?

[Thucydides]

As an INTJ, what I like about political science is that I can study real world problems. I'm not likely to solve any of them any time soon, but I can understand the importance of studying war, trade, international law, and so forth. Right now I'm doing a major research project on government bailouts of financial institutions--a timely topic.

You should study something that you like. Especially as an INTJ--you need to find something that can hold your interest for the next few years.

[shiggityjoe]

Originally Posted by Thucydides To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

As an INTJ, what I like about political science is that I can study real world problems. I'm not likely to solve any of them any time soon, but I can understand the importance of studying war, trade, international law, and so forth. Right now I'm doing a major research project on government bailouts of financial institutions--a timely topic. You should study something that you like. Especially as an INTJ--you need to find something that can hold your interest for the next few years.

Yeah, I thought about Political science. I could talk forever about the bailouts. However, I do tend to feel like no matter what your argument is --their are people who refuse to accept it. Feels like it's tough to get tangible results in that field.

I've mulled over programming a bit, but it seems a bit narrow for my liking -as a major anyway. I've been doing html & css for years now ,and started Ruby on Rails in the summer. Been doing some PBASIC lately because it's the default programming lang for the microcontroller I got for my robot experiments (the parallax boe-bot, simple - but good place to start.)

Lately I been leaning towards Mech. Engineering or some kind of specialized major for Robotics. Nice merging of programming/electrical/mechanical, plus I'm a bit geek so I've read/seen robots in sci-fis and whatnot my whole life and always been fascinated with them--then again, isn't everyone.... Just unsure if it's a passing fad that I'll be bored of in a semester or if it's something real.

Thanks for the input thus far guys. Kinda suprised to see INTJ's in every field, guess I had us stereotyped
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.

[IgnoranceIsKind]

Perhaps you could try thinking about the big picture - what can you picture yourself doing in the near future? Programming, to me at least, is a hobby that I love tremendously, but I cannot see myself doing it for a living. What is your real motivation? There must be a clear distinction between what is your passion and what is your hobby. When you can figure this out, and I believe no one else can do it for you, then you won't have any problems.

Your predicament is just like that of an average INTJ, because we start to like anything that is intellectually challenging. But take heart don't worry! I believe if you actually put aside time everything and start to evaluate your interests, you'll come down to a solution eventually.

[jyoti]

I totally empathize! I think I've considered almost every career path known to man; from home construction to FBI Behavioral Science division to acting to web page design to creative writing to astrological chart casting to family psychological counseling to writing musical soundtracks for movies a la James Horner and Alan Silvestri. And that was all BEFORE I had turned 18 and entered college.

I ended up changing my major 7 times, because I just couldn't decide what to do with the rest of my life. I once majored in Theater, Business, Economics, Computer Science, Psychology, History, and Biology before finally deciding on becoming a natural health practitioner. Then it came down to: which type of healthcare practitioner did I want to be? I considered herbalist, acupuncturist, naturopath, and osteopathy before finally deciding on chiropractic neurology. LOL.

Why all the decisions? I struggled because I started out making decisions based on too much logic and pragmatism rather than balancing that with intuition and feeling. It was only when I stumbled upon the warm fuzzies inside generated by the act of helping others and knowing I had helped them that my true path was revealed to me. It had been chosen for me already, it's just that I had to find it and evolve enough such that I was prepared to commit to it.

What was wrong with the other career paths? Well, all of them were interesting and they fed my need for variety and adventure and my aversion to the mundane, but none of them hit a special spot. While they were close to the mark, they somehow always missed part of it. Ever the perfectionist and always wanting more out of life, I never settled until I felt that void close the first time I gave someone health advice that produced a dramatic change and they came to me later, clearly improved, and thanked me for it.

So that's my story--the Cliff Notes version, anyway. Maybe something similar is true for you? Maybe warmer fuzzies somehow is what you're seeking? Maybe not. But hopefully my story helps someone
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~Jyoti

[Hatsumomo1]

Originally Posted by shiggityjoe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Hey guys, So I'm in the middle of crisis-in-major. As is typical, I've way over-analyzed this decision and can't make choice and it's taking over all my time trying to pick the right one....I'm an entrepreneurship major, in the business school, and I picked it because I want to start my own company - but thus far it's been very unfullfilling and entirely commonsense. Others around me are challenged, and I find myself getting B's and C's with no effort because I'm insanely bored...just waiting to get back to my dorm room to get back to self-directed learning. I find myself programming, working with hobby electronics and robotics, and reading economics books / watching a ton of TED Talks. Guess it's that information hound in me. I've always loved taking things apart to see how they worked, and building things, be them forts/websites/business plans. Anyway, so I'm pretty annoyed with the standard business major. Creativity and independence are big for me and I cant stand being told exactly how i have to do things (which rules out accounting, and finance). Entrepreneurship major feels like a bunch of fluff, and I have already learned about startups from a dot-com startup I worked at for past year. Anyway, I'm leaning towards Economics, Poli. Sci, Engineering, or CS. I am having the hardest time deciding.... I'm not a big fan of math, but then again I've never gotten to see it's applications except for in high school physics and stuff (which i loved). I also aced Economics and Poli. Sci in high school, so...yeah. Anyway, just was hoping to find a fellow INTJ on here who may have dealt with some of the stuff I have in trying to decide the course of the rest of my life/ i.e. picking major. Oh yeah, one last thing. Since I'm a junior and in the business school, if I go with economics I will be done on time - in another 3 semesters. If I switch to engineering then it will take like 3 or 4 years because of nearly zero cross-compatible courses. [note to self: stop saying 'anyway']

I was in the same boat.

I was a psychology major until last year. I switched to biology. And yeah, now I do have to stay in college a lot longer than I would before. I probably would've been graduating this year if I had remained a psych major, but I'm glad I did the switch.

Before I made the big switch I asked myself "Am I really enjoying this subject at all?" The answer was yes, but only certain areas of it. The classes were dull because it felt like I was learning the same thing over and over again, with a few different details here and there. It also didn't help that I'm pretty skeptical of a lot of areas in psychology in general, especially the usefulness of anti-psychotics, and I really didn't want to be a part of that for the rest of my life.

So now I made psych my minor. I guess you should ask yourself if you would be satisfied with running your own business for the rest of your life. If not, I'd say make it a minor, then it wouldn't be a total waste of money.

[Sliderule]

	I find myself programming, working with hobby electronics and robotics

Oh common how is robots a hard choice at all? Dude robots!

(You'll pick up the math just fine, especially if you have to!)

[ManthaJay]

If you decide engineering is where you want to go, don't let the extra 4-5 years stop you. I changed my major from sociology to materials science and engineering one semester away from graduating. I was too broke to spend 4-5 years taking core and the materials science classes so I dedicated myself and finished everything in 2.5 years.

As of now...I'm finishing up my PhD. If you decide engineering is what would really satisfy you (which given the number of INTJ professors in my department is a distinct possibility) then go for it and don't look back.

[Franklin71]

	Originally Posted by OrrDavey To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I did economics and thought it was OK. Some of the classes are really easy, a few are pretty hard. Most of the information was actually pretty interesting, though. And I felt that those classes gave me a good idea of how the world really works. "Follow the money."

The real lesson economics has for how the world works is "incentives matter."

[goofychick]

As another INTJ who changed majors each semester, my advice is just pick the field you enjoy learning about the most. Definitely money can be a factor if you can't afford to stay in school for another 3-4 years. I've had 3 successful career fields since college, including a stint as a college prof, so I think it's most important to just have a degree. Most undergraduate fields are very vague and can translate into limitless possibilities. If you are thinking of pursuing graduate school, then definitely give some thought into what classes you might need at the undergrad level. I ended up majoring in English with a minor in general business - mostly taking marketing and communications classes. If I had wanted to pursue an MBA, I would have needed to pick up an economics class and another accounting class to have the basics most graduate programs required at the time.

They didn't have an entrepreneurship major when I was in college, but I've had several friends who have started businesses over the years and had success. One majored in physical education and now runs a successful graphic design business. Another majored in engineering, then went on to start a construction business then sold that and purchased a cabinet manufacturing business. A third majored in criminal justice and after a decade in that field, started her own interior design business.

I guess the morale of my story here is that your degree doesn't always have a darn thing to do with your profession. Yes, college should prepare you for the "real world" but college should also be a time to expand your mind and have a good time doing so. And in our world today, hardly anyone has the same job, same career for their entire lives. I think the average number of careers is now 5 before retiring?

[shiggityjoe]

I'm currently eyeballing the BioElectrical Engineering curriculum. The only difference between BioE and regular Electrical is three Biology courses. Like any enigma, I'm very interested in how the body works as well. SO I'm looking at fields like Robotic assisted surgery, imaging and all that. Wet wire stuff (like one day putting a harddrive in your head) is one crazy awesome part of BioE.

My favorite reason for choosing BioE is that it will be great preparation for a wide-array of sciences and especially electronics. Dean Kamen is one of my role models and I hope to be able to innovate and create like he does, on things as meaningful as he does.

I agree that college is meant to be enjoyed, but I'm kind of past that. I partied alot in high school and first year of college. Completely sick of socializing, lol. Seriously though, when I'm at parties lately - the whole time I'm waiting to leave so I can be productive. Even when I'm with friends I find myself wishing I could re-claim the night and startover and instead accomplish something.

I'm not worried about the cost of college, I'm getting loans and stuff, so I'll pay for it later but in the meantime I'm not even concerned about it. "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance"

[AnotherNormal]

Get your Bx in economics, that way you have the Bx in the bag.

[hullolife]

This is my exact dilemma.... I'm trying to believe the older and wiser when they say "Your major doesn't mean shit."

[Tyrant Soup]

When I was in uni, I changed from Physics to Mech Engineering because of the job potentials. However, after working a few years, I taught myself programming and electronics. That's the field I'm in now.

I agree with those who say your degree won't necessarily bind you for life. However, my suggestion would be to pick an degree with job potential to start. It's easier to "find" yourself when you're bathing in $$$.

[Deliberator]

Well, the engineering might pay off a great deal, especially if you're looking for something challenging that will open up a lot of opportunities for you in the fields that interest you.

Also... engineers make goooooooood money.

[deinotes]

Originally Posted by shiggityjoe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Hey guys, So I'm in the middle of crisis-in-major. As is typical, I've way over-analyzed this decision and can't make choice and it's taking over all my time trying to pick the right one....I'm an entrepreneurship major, in the business school, and I picked it because I want to start my own company - but thus far it's been very unfullfilling and entirely commonsense. Others around me are challenged, and I find myself getting B's and C's with no effort because I'm insanely bored...just waiting to get back to my dorm room to get back to self-directed learning. I find myself programming, working with hobby electronics and robotics, and reading economics books / watching a ton of TED Talks. Guess it's that information hound in me. I've always loved taking things apart to see how they worked, and building things, be them forts/websites/business plans. Anyway, so I'm pretty annoyed with the standard business major. Creativity and independence are big for me and I cant stand being told exactly how i have to do things (which rules out accounting, and finance). Entrepreneurship major feels like a bunch of fluff, and I have already learned about startups from a dot-com startup I worked at for past year. Anyway, I'm leaning towards Economics, Poli. Sci, Engineering, or CS. I am having the hardest time deciding.... I'm not a big fan of math, but then again I've never gotten to see it's applications except for in high school physics and stuff (which i loved). I also aced Economics and Poli. Sci in high school, so...yeah. Anyway, just was hoping to find a fellow INTJ on here who may have dealt with some of the stuff I have in trying to decide the course of the rest of my life/ i.e. picking major. Oh yeah, one last thing. Since I'm a junior and in the business school, if I go with economics I will be done on time - in another 3 semesters. If I switch to engineering then it will take like 3 or 4 years because of nearly zero cross-compatible courses. [note to self: stop saying 'anyway']

I have just finished electric engineering and it's great you have both hardware and software and you can find out what you like best.
Also a benefit with engineering is that you really learn a trade wich is highly valid and ecenomics can you also learn later on or in your freetime
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.

[noobvsnoob]

Originally Posted by shiggityjoe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Hey guys, So I'm in the middle of crisis-in-major. As is typical, I've way over-analyzed this decision and can't make choice and it's taking over all my time trying to pick the right one....I'm an entrepreneurship major, in the business school, and I picked it because I want to start my own company - but thus far it's been very unfullfilling and entirely commonsense. Others around me are challenged, and I find myself getting B's and C's with no effort because I'm insanely bored...just waiting to get back to my dorm room to get back to self-directed learning. I find myself programming, working with hobby electronics and robotics, and reading economics books / watching a ton of TED Talks. Guess it's that information hound in me. I've always loved taking things apart to see how they worked, and building things, be them forts/websites/business plans. Anyway, so I'm pretty annoyed with the standard business major. Creativity and independence are big for me and I cant stand being told exactly how i have to do things (which rules out accounting, and finance). Entrepreneurship major feels like a bunch of fluff, and I have already learned about startups from a dot-com startup I worked at for past year. Anyway, I'm leaning towards Economics, Poli. Sci, Engineering, or CS. I am having the hardest time deciding.... I'm not a big fan of math, but then again I've never gotten to see it's applications except for in high school physics and stuff (which i loved). I also aced Economics and Poli. Sci in high school, so...yeah. Anyway, just was hoping to find a fellow INTJ on here who may have dealt with some of the stuff I have in trying to decide the course of the rest of my life/ i.e. picking major. Oh yeah, one last thing. Since I'm a junior and in the business school, if I go with economics I will be done on time - in another 3 semesters. If I switch to engineering then it will take like 3 or 4 years because of nearly zero cross-compatible courses. [note to self: stop saying 'anyway']

I find myself programming, working with hobby electronics and robotics, and reading economics books / watching a ton of TED Talks. Guess it's that information hound in me. I've always loved taking things apart to see how they worked, and building things, be them forts/websites/business plans.

Looks like you're an engineering person. Computer Engineering to be more exact
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.

That aside, are you sure you want to substitute 3 semesters for 3 or 4 years?

This is just my opinion, but if you're concerned about transfer credits then you might want to consider Industrial Engineering; some people call it Business Engineering. You might want to check with your advisor about this major and I think you would not lose as many credits as you would if you switch to EE / Com E / CS.

[orly]

	Originally Posted by shiggityjoe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Hey guys, Anyway, I'm leaning towards Economics, Poli. Sci, Engineering, or CS. I am having the hardest time deciding.... I'm not a big fan of math, but then again I've never gotten to see it's applications except for in high school physics and stuff (which i loved). I also aced Economics and Poli. Sci in high school, so...yeah.

I majored in Economics. At my school, this entailed a lot of problem solving with calculus and analyzing the related graphs. So if you are comfortable with it, you would see its application to maximize profits, minimize costs, evaluate inefficiences, etc. Most of the theories are most easily explained / understood mathematically.

[NoahAddle]

In my case, I started off with chemical engineering as my major. By my junior year, I discovered that I didn´t really care for what I was studying. But because I didn´t want to feel like I would be losing time, I put up with the ChemE classes and started taking Philosophy classes on the side. I ended up graduating in 5 years instead of 4, but with Bx´s in both subjects.

Once I graduated, I ended up taking a job as a ChemE as the entry level market for Philosophy majors is non existent as far as I could tell. The money was good, but I didn´t really find too much satisfaction in my work. I put up with it for 2 years, before deciding to make a change. I just completed my first semester working towards an MBA and specializing in Supply Chain Management. My gut feeling is that this has been a good change for me.

So I guess what I´m saying is that if you are willing to put up with stuff you don´t love for awhile, it can still lead to good places down the line. It is not always possible to get to where you want to go by taking a direct route, especially if you are not completely sure where you want to go in the first place.

But looking back, even though there were times when I was very unhappy with where I was in my life, I am very glad to be able to say now that I have a background in engineering. If worse comes to worse, I can always lean on it to land a job that pays the bills. The additional degree in philosophy also allows me stand out in the market place and made admissions into MBA programs pretty painless.

Reading over what I just wrote, I am not sure what the real moral of my story is. I can´t say I regret the path I chose, but it certainly wasn´t the easiest one or the one that always brought a lot of happiness into my life. Probably best to just take my story as a data point of what might happen in your life if you go down a certain path.

Good luck making a decision. I hope it all works out for the best for you.

[shiggityjoe]

I've switched to bioelectrical. Really looking forward to it. Thanks for everyones input.

[jonkun227]

Just found this forum and this exact thread by a google search for "intj degree". shiggityjoe, while I can't relate at all to your username, your entire initial post sounded like it could have been written by me. I even find myself removing a half-dozen "anyway"s from every email and forum post I write.

I've been studying business and have likewise been extremely frustrated by the offerings. I started in business school while already a business owner. My first business management class skipped the chapter on small businesses, which was the only reason I signed up. So I read the chapter on my own and found that I hadn't learned anything. It wasn't until I got into personality type that I understood what was lacking in my business: a non-INTJ. I let the ball drop on so many details while pursuing newer, bigger picture issues. That revelation convinced me to close the business. (Might sound illogical without more backstory, but trust me, it made sense.)

Now, over a year later, I'm still trying to figure out what to do. I've investigated numerous schools for their business management programs trying to find one that impresses me. Half of them list "retail store manager" as what you can aspire to after graduating. Way to sell me!


ANYWAY (I promise that's the only one I'm going to keep in this post), I wanted to write to let you know what I discovered that I think you will LOVE: PMBA. Personal MBA. personalmba_com (The system says I have to have a post count of two in order to post a link. I promise I'm not spamming.)

It's a reading list put together by a guy named Joshua Kaufman, after he was challenged to do so by Seth Godin. (I'm assuming you know who Seth Godin is. If not, find out.) The list is FANTASTIC. I've read about a dozen of the books on the list so far and I find myself never wanting to go to college again, because I've learned several orders of magnitude more from each book than I ever learned from the assigned reading in college.

Start with the manifesto: personalmba_com/manifesto/

Then the list of books: personalmba_com/best-business-books/

Oh, and read the entire Theory of Constraints series by Eli Goldratt. You'll get through them in a week and his systems can be applied to any area of life, not just business management.

Okay, one more: Leadership and Self-Deception. It's not on the reading list yet, but it needs to be.

Glad I found this site. My wife is laughing at me because I told her I found my home.