[sid4wisdom]

Hi,

Here is something that really intrigued me.

I have a female colleague who is INTx, beautiful, athletic and has an irresistible feminine cultured charm to go along.

Thats the kind of woman men would be falling left, right and center for. Add to it a workplace where men outnumber women 10:1.

What i am curious to understand is the way in which such women would treat their relationships, and if they will ever settle on a man at all.

What is the effect of such a bewildering availability of options.

Comments invited.

[Jgib5328]

Well being a highly desired woman.. (just kidding, I'm a guy)

They probably just try to find men who epitomize the quality that they desire, they have so much demand, that they can afford to do this because they have so many options. Some women might just settle for anything and not think about it. I also know of some highly desired women who never end up with anyone because everyone is too intimidated.

[OrrDavey]

Alright man. If you have that attitude then you already lost. It means that you'd feel insecure if you were with her. You would probably give up more ground with her than with other girls. You'll get all nervous around her. You'll be much less decisive because you will always second guess your actions. Women are intuitive about this and they are not interested a guy who does these things. And most men won't even approach her in the first place. This leads me to my next point.

Most other men think the same way that you do about her. Thus, she doesn't actually have as many options as you would believe. It is not uncommon for ridiculously appealing women to be just as lonely as anyone else.

[Synamon]

An INTx women wouldn't be looking for a smorgasbord of men, she'd just be looking for one who could keep up. And as OrrDavey said, most men would be too intimidated to ever get to know her.

[UN1DENT1F1ED]

	Originally Posted by OrrDavey To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Most other men think the same way that you do about her. Thus, she doesn't actually have as many options as you would believe. It is not uncommon for ridiculously appealing women to be just as lonely as anyone else.

I don't want to say that I'm that woman, although I will say that I've been told as much...but I can tell you that no matter how much I have to "offer" or anything, I am still as lonely as anyone else. EXACTLY. I've had so many guy friends tell me, WAY WAY after the fact that they were too intimidated to talk to me. Intimidated? Even girls tell me that! I guess their hesitancy and such led me to not really see them, or I guess many people, as "options"...

I don't know, that quote just really resonated with me...

[MaJor LeAguE]

Why settle for less than the best of the best?
If relationships are a two way street, I think this is especially true for growth. Which is highly important for NT women. Of course there has to be attraction, but at the same time if he cannot only keep up mentally but also challenge my thoughts to enable mutual growth within ourselves and the relationship then what is the point?
I'd rather stay single than to settle for a relationship that only fills time. (e
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Personally, there are a series of tests that an individual will go through with me without him even knowing it...they have to qualify for which place they have in my life.. When in a relationship, they have already gained my respect...and that is when the best conversation, best sex, and best debating are possible..

[Mozzes]

	Originally Posted by UN1DENT1F1ED To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I don't want to say that I'm that woman, although I will say that I've been told as much..

That must be you in your avatar. How's it going, you hawt wild thang?
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[sid4wisdom]

Originally Posted by OrrDavey To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Alright man. If you have that attitude then you already lost. It means that you'd feel insecure if you were with her. You would probably give up more ground with her than with other girls. You'll get all nervous around her. You'll be much less decisive because you will always second guess your actions. Women are intuitive about this and they are not interested a guy who does these things. And most men won't even approach her in the first place. This leads me to my next point. Most other men think the same way that you do about her. Thus, she doesn't actually have as many options as you would believe. It is not uncommon for ridiculously appealing women to be just as lonely as anyone else.

1. She actually has had and will have plenty of options. She exercises it by expressing interest and is very good at the game. She has tried a few out already
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fact.
2. I can't win this one. Its an economic power imbalance. Even if i can win her over for some time, the effort / attention / money it'll take will not be worth it considering that i'll stay disposable forever ( both of us are 22 btw ). And disposability is a fact which plays a role in how relationships are broken off. I'll grudgingly admit that i've disposed off someone before.
3. I am not even in the game, and in fact , i have no insecurity when i am around her. I know for a fact that i am more competent and smart than her (not by a huge margin though) and this is something she realizes too. It is very obviously clear. However ,that will not be enough since she'll always have suitors who are in positions of greater power or who are richer than me.

This explains my existing line of thought. I am going to factor in your opinions and reply later. Thanks for the inputs.

[F6M13]

Typical hollywood starlet problem. A lot of actresses have been interviewed and stated that they don't date much because guys just simply don't ask them out, either due to insecurity or the thought of not being able to land a woman like that.

[sid4wisdom]

	Originally Posted by F6M13 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Typical hollywood starlet problem. A lot of actresses have been interviewed and stated that they don't date much because guys just simply don't ask them out, either due to insecurity or the thought of not being able to land a woman like that.

I would find that very hard to believe. It seems to lead to two conclusions. Either these women can't indicate interest to great men coming their way, or that really good men consistently undervalue themselves. Neither sounds like the macro picture to me.

There might be reasons specific to actresses, but i am skeptical of this as being a problem for really attractive women on an average.

I'd rather think that they can have relationships at will.

[BlackOp]

You just have to understand..they have options. Spooky power they have indeed...almost spell-like. I dated someone like this...men literally would stop talking when she entered the room. She told me when she broke up with her boyfriend....like 6 of his friends called her. If you enjoy looking over your shoulder...go for it.

On a side note...I dated a professional model seriously for two years. "The giver" ENFJ. She dumbed down her looks and was very committed and loyal. Depends on the girl I guess.....

[changos]

	Originally Posted by BlackOp To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You just have to understand..they have options. Spooky power they have indeed...almost spell-like. I dated someone like this...men literally would stop talking when she entered the room. She told me when she broke up with her boyfriend....like 6 of his friends called her. If you enjoy looking over your shoulder...go for it.

Wise words.

Women are women, guys are guys. But the consequences of such attraction are not under your control, not even under hers. Its not a fatal thing or a disease, many girls like that complain because guys feel intimidated and only low quality guys approach to them, anyway, being that attractive has consequences... Some guys have no respect and just attack...

	If you enjoy looking over your shoulder...go for it.

I think many guys can overcome this, but hey!, a little rock inside your shoe becomes a problem after walking 5 miles with those shoes on.

[Astra]

	Originally Posted by F6M13 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Typical hollywood starlet problem. A lot of actresses have been interviewed and stated that they don't date much because guys just simply don't ask them out, either due to insecurity or the thought of not being able to land a woman like that.

That type of statement is a good PR strategy for actresses - it deflects attention from their private lives and at the same time makes them look more human ("see, I have the same problems as normal people...").

@sid4wisdom, just because a woman has a lot of men interested in her doesn't mean she feels she has a lot of choice - it's quite possible that 9 out of 10 of them don't interest her at all. She might be the sort of woman who's only interested in the men who aren't interested in her, or on the other hand she might prefer to settle down with someone who isn't any kind of threat to her in terms of attraction (i.e. someone who isn't going to see her as a trophy and therefore isn't at risk of losing interest once the chase is over).

[OrrDavey]

OP:

I don't think you fully understood what I was getting at.

Her options are limited because guys feel insecure around her. Guys who feel insecure are not serious options, even if they do go out or start a relationship or whatever.

Edit: More over, if you are single and are strongly attracted to a girl, you are in the game whether you'd like to admit it or not.

[sid4wisdom]

Originally Posted by Astra To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

That type of statement is a good PR strategy for actresses - it deflects attention from their private lives and at the same time makes them look more human ("see, I have the same problems as normal people..."). @sid4wisdom, just because a woman has a lot of men interested in her doesn't mean she feels she has a lot of choice - it's quite possible that 9 out of 10 of them don't interest her at all. She might be the sort of woman who's only interested in the men who aren't interested in her, or on the other hand she might prefer to settle down with someone who isn't any kind of threat to her in terms of attraction (i.e. someone who isn't going to see her as a trophy and therefore isn't at risk of losing interest once the chase is over).

Very unlikely that "most" people the woman likes fall in the category of people who don't express interest. If that is the case - and i doubt it - there is a shortage of options.
To be acquired as a trophy is a threat at the other end of the spectrum for these women. I never thought about that aspect. They might want to avoid advances from trophy collectors.
Quite importantly, i don't think any of us can has been able to figure out a common denominator for these women and their behavior. Maybe there isn't any.

[blatant]

as one....

honestly, the attention is a pain the ass and i'd rather be left alone sometimes (it gets creepy if he's your TA!). i'm only attracted to pretty boys (money doesn't mean much to me right now) and they're rather small in #'s, so i get frustrated. i also can't have close male friends, but every girl has that problem, i think.

Oh- it does make me into kind of a dick. i got more and more creative with rejections as time went on if the guy was creepy (normal ones i was nice to). and.... i like teasing guys b/c they let me get away with it.

I'm in uni right now, and while men that i am attracted to also like me...well, i like men just as good-looking as me. the issue with that is that attractive men are players so often, so i know that i need to be careful. plus, we're both used to the opposite gender making the first move, so we both end up eyeing each other a whole lot, going "do not know if want..."

and no, i have no desire to change the type of men that i am attracted to. it runs in the family, mom was also smart + good-looking and said that she only liked physically desirable men.

guy 'friends' also are willing to lend you videogames and advice, even if they know that nothing will happen between you and them. nice, but the tension is still there, so i try to avoid it.

oh, and some girls dont like me. :D but i like girls a lot so they usually mellow out towards me after a while.

[sid4wisdom]

	Originally Posted by OrrDavey To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	OP: I don't think you fully understood what I was getting at. Her options are limited because guys feel insecure around her. Guys who feel insecure are not serious options, even if they do go out or start a relationship or whatever. Edit: More over, if you are single and are strongly attracted to a girl, you are in the game whether you'd like to admit it or not.

I don't understand how you define insecurity.

I know for a fact that she is not on the same page as far as certain key points go, like spending. I am also pretty sure she will look for someone with greater economic wherewithal in the long run (mind you i am not in poverty by any means
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).

So my future simulation framework clearly predicts that this can't work out.

I don't know if that translates to insecurity.

I know that i am in the game if i am attracted, but i tend to take a longer term view of things.

I appreciate your single minded devotion to winning the game however. The skill of attracting another to me will be handy if it makes sense longer term.

[OrrDavey]

	I am also pretty sure she will look for someone with greater economic wherewithal in the long run (mind you i am not in poverty by any means ).

Is that just a big assumption you made? Do you even really makes her tick? Of course you don't.

There is a lady at my work who is ridiculously successful and good looking. Her husband is this really strange guy that is kind of a hippie, but not really. I don't even know how to describe him, but I wouldn't have imagined it at all unless I actually saw the match in person. They have kids together and they appear very happy.

It does not make sense to simultaneously call a woman highly desired and then have picked out a bunch of deal breaking problems. I think you are generating excuses to not approach her in the first place, which does translate to insecurity. From the sound of it, the money thing is one of your insecurities.

	I appreciate your single minded devotion to winning the game however.

Single minded devotion? It is more like a very casual hobby that I've had for a while now. Honestly, most of the stuff is common sense that our parents just failed to teach us.

[rara avis]

Originally Posted by Astra To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

@sid4wisdom, just because a woman has a lot of men interested in her doesn't mean she feels she has a lot of choice - it's quite possible that 9 out of 10 of them don't interest her at all. She might be the sort of woman who's only interested in the men who aren't interested in her, or on the other hand she might prefer to settle down with someone who isn't any kind of threat to her in terms of attraction (i.e. someone who isn't going to see her as a trophy and therefore isn't at risk of losing interest once the chase is over).

I agree, just because they are options doesn't make them more palatable. From my perspective, having that many "options" would not necessarily increase your odds of finding a match by much... you might have the opportunity to review more people, but could that advantage get cancelled out by jadedness? Dating's freaking exhausting.

Anyway. I think for me it would still be a needle in a haystack proposition.

I think it's not really any easier to work through the search, when the haystack keeps throwing itself at you instead of you picking your way through it.

[sid4wisdom]

Originally Posted by OrrDavey To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Is that just a big assumption you made? Do you even really makes her tick? Of course you don't. There is a lady at my work who is ridiculously successful and good looking. Her husband is this really strange guy that is kind of a hippie, but not really. I don't even know how to describe him, but I wouldn't have imagined it at all unless I actually saw the match in person. They have kids together and they appear very happy. It does not make sense to simultaneously call a woman highly desired and then have picked out a bunch of deal breaking problems. I think you are generating excuses to not approach her in the first place, which does translate to insecurity. From the sound of it, the money thing is one of your insecurities. Single minded devotion? It is more like a very casual hobby that I've had for a while now. Honestly, most of the stuff is common sense that our parents just failed to teach us.

I think you are missing the distinction between what can get things sparking and what can keep things going. Maybe the money is not a dealbreaker upfront, but in my understanding, the likelyhood of it proving to be a bone is pretty high at a later point. I have good reasons for believing that.

I think money is the only deal breaker for me here. I am pretty sure i'd have given it a shot if i were 5-10x richer.

I don't for once believe that i cannot start off an attraction and romance here. She has been dropping hints all along. However, i am looking for evidence that it can work out well in the longer run, and i don't end up as one of the also-rans.

However, the replies on these threads indicate that what will tick with this woman in the long run is very particular to her and little can be inferred from generalities.

[BlackOp]

Originally Posted by rara avis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I agree, just because they are options doesn't make them more palatable. From my perspective, having that many "options" would not necessarily increase your odds of finding a match by much... you might have the opportunity to review more people, but could that advantage get cancelled out by jadedness? Dating's freaking exhausting. Anyway. I think for me it would still be a needle in a haystack proposition. I think it's not really any easier to work through the search, when the haystack keeps throwing itself at you instead of you picking your way through it.

This works both ways..the girls (who work) at a friends bar wont even talk to me. I have no sexual interest in them and they know it. I had one say "what a waste" to my face.
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f@cking sensors.......If they only knew the train wreck we would be together.

[rara avis]

	Originally Posted by BlackOp To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	This works both ways..the girls (who work) at a friends bar wont even talk to me. I have no sexual interest in them and they know it. I had one say "what a waste" to my face. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. f@cking sensors.......

It's a puzzling, annoying thing sometimes, looking at someone who is very physically attractive and realizing, I really could just walk over there and get that right now... but knowing you won't, because availability + physicality = jack.

It does seem like a waste, sometimes...

[BlackOp]

	Originally Posted by rara avis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It's a puzzling, annoying thing sometimes, looking at someone who is very physically attractive and realizing, I really could just walk over there and get that right now... but knowing you won't, because availability + physicality = jack. It does seem like a waste, sometimes...

Yes...nothing is free. If I slept with one of those girls...shit would get messy. I can see that coming a mile away.

[Nikita]

	Originally Posted by BlackOp To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yes...nothing is free. If I slept with one of those girls...shit would get messy. I can see that coming a mile away.

Yeah, the reality is that reality tends to get in the way. Everyone comes with some form of baggage. Every devastatingly beautiful person is someone's "ex" for a reason.

[thod]

I have known such women that are single. Men are afraid to ask them out. The men know that they are not worthy of such a specimen and so avoid rejection by not asking. Many also see them as high maintenance and they are unable or unwilling to provide this. One of the odd things is that most of these women don't see themselves as perfect. Like all women they will be unhappy with some of their features and obsess about them, assuming this is the reason men don't hit on them.