[Colette]

Congratulations Americans, for electing a person that I believe the rest of the world sees as your savior (or at least the candidate with the best chance of pulling you out of economic crisis, and the debacle in Iraq).

Congratulations for believing in a newcomer!

Congratulations for getting out there and voting in record numbers!!

Congratulations for not believing the idiotic scuttlebut that's been published about him by those determined to tarnish his good name!!!

This is a thread for the rest of the world (i.e. non-Americans) to post their reaction to yesterday's big news, and to discuss what their hopes are for the new administration, and its impact on those outside America.

#1 on my 'wishlist' for Obama is to endorse entry into a FTA (free trade agreement) with New Zealand. Australia has one, now it's our turn!

[Alexander]

I think it's good for places like Iran in that they'll likely not be invaded.

Other than that, I doubt there will be any real change in US foreign policy.

[Marcus]

Obama winning was the expected outcome. It would have been more interesting to see McCain coming first.

I don't expect much novelty, Obama could be the next Clinton. It's nice to see that the Bush era ended, though.

[metamagnet]

^Agreed, I'm glad we are done (for the time being) will all political dynasties.

[Synamon]

It was a shift away from the right wing religious conservatives and for that I'm grateful.

The US may not be on the same page as the rest of the world, but maybe they are using the same book now.

[enWTFp]

I keep forgetting that you are from NZ, Colette, how nice of you!

Um, first, I don't think the face (and even the party) of the president means thaaaat much, in the US. Officially, seems it matters a lot, but things are changing rapidly. In recent years, this person is mostly the Scarecrow to get all the tomatoes from Internet, and by this - gradually from everyone in the world. It's not even about the personality that much, although W. certainly was not the brightest person. It is an unfair focus of attention, that will magnify any mistake and overlook months and years of good hard work. The president right now is like the goalkeeper in soccer - he gets all the blame, and rarely the full credit for his work. So actually, it seems very logical that the population pushes there someone, who would make the perfect scapegoat, not the perfect leader. The leaders are skilled enough to handle behind the scenes. (right now even ENTJs rarely command on screen)

Second, I really think that the influence of US on the rest of the world has to find its turning point, and at least to be balanced a little bit. I'm not sure this hyper-influence is even good for the US themselves - they need to get their things together inside the country, and get more serious. Remember the Spanish Empire? Full of gold and power, getting lazy and stupid, and losing everything in the end? On the long run, hard work is the only thing that matters, and no tricks and cheating can replace that. You can make your life easy and successful, but you would lack the tough character to fight difficult problems when there is no external help for you.

So, let's hope the US works a little more on their own substance and self-sustainability, i.e. producing their own talents and products, by which also leaves the rest of the world alone. If Obama makes a full mandate, I hope his country getting stronger from the inside and by the next elections not be considered as so fundamentally important for the whole world. I think this notion is just harmful for everybody, USA is just another country, after all.

[NZPixie]

Free-trade agreement would be good, I did hear we had some such proposal. Who knows what the National Party will do to screw up our country though. Scuse me if you are a national supporter. I think Obama will do well and I am glad because I am so sick of old white men. I think he is more balanced and more intelligent. The world is glad.

[hullolife]

I think the world runs on feelings. Policies, intellect and actual substance aside, I think people were just sick of the feeling of fear being sold by McCain and thirsted the feeling of hope, energy and excitement etc that Obama brought to the table. I think this means we'll be riding a good wave of feelings for a while.
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[mind_wander]

The world is viewing it is finally, so we can work together now? Like, you know play nicely with one another. What is mine is yours and what is mine is ours? It's still a difficult path in what's coming ahead? Trust me, its not easy. Tons of bumps are here and there, but he will try to bring confidence to everyone in his administration, as well the people around the world/US.

[Henry]

	Originally Posted by NZPixie To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Free-trade agreement would be good, I did hear we had some such proposal. Who knows what the National Party will do to screw up our country though. Scuse me if you are a national supporter. I think Obama will do well and I am glad because I am so sick of old white men. I think he is more balanced and more intelligent. The world is glad.

-1 Racism
-1 Obama's rhetoric more protectionist than most US candidates

[zibber]

	Originally Posted by hullolife To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think this means we'll be riding a good wave of feelings for a while. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I fear that this elation will be a kind of blinding opium.

	Originally Posted by hullolife To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think the world runs on feelings.

No, actions.

[PortInStorm]

A word of caution on wishing for a free trade deal with the States.... as a citizen of one of their longest free trade partners (Americans this is no reflection on you, but your leaders), I can say that they'll chew you up and spit you out. Free trade is declaring open season on yourselves, for them to use and abuse you as they wish, and you won't have any power to stop them once you sign. That document hasn't stopped them from putting tariffs on our lumber going to them, but they've used it to
- wantonly waste massive amounts of our fresh water to process oil (we can't even make them use grey water like we make our Canadian companies use),
- to destroy the wetlands in Alberta,
- to block us from reducing production of the oil,
- to block us from charging them more than we charge our own citizens,
- and soon, to force us to export our water.
I repeat, we have no power to stop them (except the water issue, if we act quickly and decisively) because of the Free Trade Deal.

I heard Obama wants to renegotiate NAFTA- that's part of the reason I wanted him in. I sincerely hope he does.

Other than that, I'm thrilled he's African American, frankly. Maybe that's racist, but that's a big part of it- that it's making history, that it's helping in a miniscule way to make up for mistakes of the past. Again, that's all emotional, but that's the way I feel.

[Henry]

Originally Posted by PortInStorm To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

A word of caution on wishing for a free trade deal with the States.... as a citizen of one of their longest free trade partners (Americans this is no reflection on you, but your leaders), I can say that they'll chew you up and spit you out. Free trade is declaring open season on yourselves, for them to use and abuse you as they wish, and you won't have any power to stop them once you sign. That document hasn't stopped them from putting tariffs on our lumber going to them, but they've used it to - wantonly waste massive amounts of our fresh water to process oil (we can't even make them use grey water like we make our Canadian companies use), - to destroy the wetlands in Alberta, - to block us from reducing production of the oil, - to block us from charging them more than we charge our own citizens, - and soon, to force us to export our water. I repeat, we have no power to stop them (except the water issue, if we act quickly and decisively) because of the Free Trade Deal. I heard Obama wants to renegotiate NAFTA- that's part of the reason I wanted him in. I sincerely hope he does.

Bollox. Learn to actually support your arguments with data. When data directly contradicts something you feel, your opinion is inaccurate.

Regarding environmental concerns, QQ. Canada's second largest trading partner is China, once you stop trade with them I'll be glad to listen to environmental concerns.


Exports:
$431.1 billion f.o.b. (2007 est.)
Exports - partners:
US 79.3%, UK 2.8%, China 2.1% (2007)

Imports:
$386.4 billion f.o.b. (2007 est.)
Imports - partners:
Definition Field Listing
US 54.4%, China 9.4%, Mexico 4.2% (2007)

Running a large trade surplus with the US is apparently "chewing you up and spitting you out" eh?

	Other than that, I'm thrilled he's African American, frankly. Maybe that's racist, but that's a big part of it- that it's making history, that it's helping in a miniscule way to make up for mistakes of the past. Again, that's all emotional, but that's the way I feel.

I would focus on your own country instead of telling me how we should handle racial divides in the country. We're on it, but its a very tricky problem and people from the outside who know little/nothing about the complexities of US race relations should not be commenting on them, as its a highly delicate matter and egotistical people who shout "I AM RIGHT, YOU ARE SUBHUMANE IF YOU DISAGREE" do not help the situation.

And I can assure you that the recent increase in race-consciousness associated with Mr. Obama's election is not a positive event, as race-consciousness is the heart of today's racism in every place except the deep south.

[hullolife]

	Originally Posted by zibber To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I fear that this elation will be a kind of blinding opium. No, actions.

NEVER!! Feelings are the fuel by which actions burrrrrn! (at least for the mass populace...american mob...american idol fans... >.< lol)

[muguly]

He he, she said scuttlebut. I think he means a new chance for America to regain allies and trust in the world view. It means people won't see America and think about G.W. and his Texas strut.

[Homini Lupus]

I think it was the most advisable outcome, even if this doesn't necessarily mean everything will go as it should.

It means ending the Bush era. I can just hope this won't just be putting another face on the same policies (I think G. W. Bush started his presidency stating that the US were not going to pursue an arrogant foreign policy). A young, liberal leadership doesn't necessarily mean a more peaceful way (by example Kennedy built his campaign on a non existing missile gap, increased military budget and sent special forces in Vietnam)

About presidential power (or lack of it) I think much will depend upon his style of leadership and his personal relations with the heads of the other offices. The amount of power a president holds can change a lot from presidency to presidency.

His plans about economy are not very clear since he talked both about lower taxes and more governal action. He's likely to close more the economy of the US. This may not benefit US partners on the short term, but on the long term a more stable US economy means better business for Europe and the other US partners.

About US engagements I hope the president will enjoy better, more frank communication with military leadership and intelligence community; an intelligence community wich is ordered to "find" the proofs the president needs is not working proficiently.

About foreign policy a new face opens new possibilities, particularly important with Russia and Iran. The former by my point of view is particularly important, the more unlikely is hostility with Russia the more likely I won't have to fight a pointless war; Iran too may be more interested in more peaceful relation, at least if it can override its religious hate propaganda.

The racial question I see it as the less predictable. I think most people will get used to it and go on with their ideas on the matter, but it could get quite a problem if his presidency proves unsatisfactory.

To sum up my point of view, I think Obama represents change and will bring (some, probably less than expected) change to a country wich needs it. Given that, it is too early to say if that change will be for better.

[PortInStorm]

Originally Posted by Henry To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bollox. Learn to actually support your arguments with data. When data directly contradicts something you feel, your opinion is inaccurate. Regarding environmental concerns, QQ. Canada's second largest trading partner is China, once you stop trade with them I'll be glad to listen to environmental concerns. Exports: $431.1 billion f.o.b. (2007 est.) Exports - partners: US 79.3%, UK 2.8%, China 2.1% (2007) Imports: $386.4 billion f.o.b. (2007 est.) Imports - partners: Definition Field Listing US 54.4%, China 9.4%, Mexico 4.2% (2007) Running a large trade surplus with the US is apparently "chewing you up and spitting you out" eh? I would focus on your own country instead of telling me how we should handle racial divides in the country. We're on it, but its a very tricky problem and people from the outside who know little/nothing about the complexities of US race relations should not be commenting on them, as its a highly delicate matter and egotistical people who shout "I AM RIGHT, YOU ARE SUBHUMANE IF YOU DISAGREE" do not help the situation. And I can assure you that the recent increase in race-consciousness associated with Mr. Obama's election is not a positive event, as race-consciousness is the heart of today's racism in every place except the deep south.

Ah Henry. You're always so angry.

First, I see nothing in your answers refuting the fact that American-owned companies are doing serious environmental damage to our country (which is the chewing up and spitting out/using us bit I was referring to), or that the U.S. still places tariffs on our wood going in- a dispute that tied up international courts for years. Yes, when I have the time I'll get you your hard facts, but for now, if you don't believe it, I don't care. You're not Canadian and can't do anything to stop it anyhow. I wasn't talking to you at all, I was inviting those in Australia and New Zealand to take a closer look at the implication that Free Trade would have on their country, not yours.

Second, I never told you how to "handle racial divides" in your country, I never once said, nor did I imply, that it was only your country that made mistakes in the past. Frankly, I could care less about the complexities of race relations in your country, never claimed to either know anything about it or be the least bit interested in it. I was speaking globally actually- that having him be a leader of an influential country like the States was a big event for the world.


Third, Without the massive chip on your shoulder or blinding anger, maybe you would've noticed that I said "maybe that's racist" as in contributing to the problem as you've suggested. Again, don't care. I said that was how I felt, and if I have to put up with your vitrolic diatribes, you'll just have to put up with my racism or put me on your "ignore" list. In fact, I'd prefer it that way, but either way....

[Librorum]

I think it will be a return to competent government and rational foreign policy. Both were poisoned by ideology (not to mention profiteering) under Bush/Cheney. I'm not expecting world peace and an end to poverty, but he will make strides and hopefully help change the culture down there. McCain's main supporters are dying out, minorities will soon be the majority, and in time I hope evangelicals will be discredited (edit: theologically). Things are looking pretty positive right now from north of the border.

[Colette]

	Originally Posted by Henry To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	-1 Racism -1 Obama's rhetoric more protectionist than most US candidates

Yep, that's very true. We were more likely to get an FTA under McCain than Obama. But that's not the be all and end all...I'm hoping Obama can be persuaded to end the ridiculous protection racket your country is plagued with.

[Shoeless]

I'm absolutely pleased with the outcome, but I'm also not blind to the immense expectations on Obama. This is where the fairytale ends. People who have always been writing him off will want to see him fail. They will be dying to say the all too familiar "I told you so".

Obama has promised much, whether he will deliver what he promises is another matter entirely. One of the most prominent things that struck me in his acceptance speech was when he said "We may not get there in one year or even in one term". Obviously I would like to think that he's just being honest, but my cynical side says that he's already making excuses for when he doesn't live up to his promises.

After inspiring record turnouts of voters, breaking through racial barriers (granted I've never bought this argument that color has anything to do with capabilities, but most people don't think that way) and becoming the first African-American president of America, I just don't want to see him fail. If he fails, he is not only letting himself down. Everyone who has placed their hopes on him will be crestfallen as well and some will probably stop believing altogether.

But here, from a corner of the globe where most people can't be bothered with the US presidential election, I wish Obama all the best. If Obama fails as badly as Bush, then my INTJ side will kick in and I'll get a forged birth certificate certifying I was born in America and run for president since nobody else can do the damn job
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[Chrysalis]

So the US is not going to bomb Iran? So what, let's bomb Pakistan instead!

Yes we can. Just do it. Think big. Think different.

What kind of political concept is that? Nothing more than shallow phrases or just single words like "change" and "hope". Running the country is much more demanding than clever advertising. Let's call it the Obama delusion because something that looks too good to be true is usually not true. The majority of his supporters are sheeps and idiotic fools who fail to realize that he is just a vanity driven politician and not the savior of humankind.

Considering his lack of experience and expertise he is ironically quite similar to Dubya. Most of his decision will be yes/no decision presented by experts and advisors in the same style as in the former administration. John McCain or Hillary Clinton would have been better suited for the job.

And in regards of war and peace: Do you remember any american administration who never participated in a military conflict?

[enWTFp]

Hey, I have GREAT friends from Iran, among the best people I've ever known!


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Bomb the Moon, damn it.

	Originally Posted by John F Kennedy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Basically 1/3 voted for Obama, 1/3 for McCain, and 1/3 stayed home. Where's the "Obamamania" everyone's talking about?

Very good point.

I'd say they got him figured out. He doesn't have the skills to stop an artificially created 'Obamamania' impression. Although, I'm sure he doesn't believe in it, but he doesn't see it as part of his job to manage it. So, the media inflates this balloon more and more, to raise it higher and higher, making it ever more annoying and vulnerable. Push him high enough to get all the potential energy to be pulled down to the ground immediately on the first wrong step. Plus, with so much wrong attention, he lives in a lie already, even if he doesn't care about his image.

These games are old as time, and so boring to watch.

[John F Kennedy]

What I don't understand is, why is everyone in the media etc. making it seem like Americans voted overwhelmingly for Obama? He got barely over half the popular vote and only about 65 percent turned up to vote at all. Basically 1/3 voted for Obama, 1/3 for McCain, and 1/3 stayed home. Where's the "Obamamania" everyone's talking about?

[hullolife]

Oh the media... I don't watch the stuff.

[JonD]

Here in Canada, our media overwhelmingly supported Obama, despite any restraint for the sake of fair and objective journalism. They seemed to neglect the times he talked about renegotiating NAFTA, a very important trade contract for Canada, and they neglected his proposal to shift troops from Iraq to Afghanistan. After all, if the States want more troops in Afghanistan, we will probably send more too.