[larkin]

	Originally Posted by eagleseven To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Russia is shoring up its allies. I'll bet said missiles are of the same model recently sold to Iran. You can put little Russian flags on Syria and Iran...US flags on Iraq, Afghanistan, Poland. And Chinese flags on Pakistan, Myanmar, and half of Africa.

I think the Chinese economic influence in a lot of places is an interesting issue. A piece on how that could be better used in Syria:


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(Side note: doubtful we could "put a U.S. flag" on Afghanistan once we don't have troops there, Iraq only marginally more so...we have better allies in both the Middle East and Central Asia. Turkey, Jordan, India to name a few.)

[Paul Siraisi]

Originally Posted by larkin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I was there in 2008. They certainly weren't shy about expressing their opinion, and I certainly don't blame them. Yes, even the Kurds, who not unsurprisingly tend to resent being trotted out as political pawns, and are quite often caught in the middle of the horrific violence. They used to have a generally prosperous country with a leader no one liked, but most had learned to live with. Now they have a shithole. Even the people who were unhappy under Saddam wouldn't have chosen this path, much less had it chosen for them, much less had it chosen for them on the back of "Shock and Awe." But it doesn't require being there to know. How many Iraqi public opinion polls or shoes thrown would it take to get the idea, one wonders?

Talk is cheap. Especially without Saddam.

[Tocsin]

We're quickly approaching a point in the middle east where humanity once again has the chance to demonstrate how stupid it is:

Are we going to expend vast amounts of resources and energy inconclusively fighting over moderate amounts of resources and energy?

[Kearley65]

As long as ex-KGB operatives are in high levels of government in Russia...cough, cough Putin, cough, cough.., Russia is a threat that should not be taken lightly. Remember the spy ring the FBI broke up of Russian spies on US soil, even though they said that they where studying the economic make-up and design of the US. But that still does not mean that they had other objects because you can basically study it from a book and other outlets.

Russians are a proud people that do not take losing lightly and want to prove that they are as good or better than the US. They did nearly cause hell to break lose in Georgia back in 2008 when they invaded and the US sent supplies to Georgia. Russia does not like the US and its NATO allies.

[larkin]

	Originally Posted by Paul Siraisi To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Talk is cheap. Especially without Saddam.

Most of them have to live it, not you, so it's certainly not just talk. And they would have said the same during Saddam after we cut him off in 91.

---------- Post added 06-20-2012 at 10:41 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by Kearley65 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Russians are a proud people that do not take losing lightly and want to prove that they are as good or better than the US. They did nearly cause hell to break lose in Georgia back in 2008 when they invaded and the US sent supplies to Georgia. Russia does not like the US and its NATO allies.

And here, the Russians invaded? Really? The Russians were there. Think what you want of them occupying Ossetia in the first place (or Chechnya, or etc.), but at that time they didn't cause anything, Saakashvili did - with much more than supplies from the U.S. (i.e. the full-throated support of John McCain, with the same advisors Romney has today.)

But that does support the eagleseven's general point - troops in close quarters make bad neighbors, especially if some are incendiary, to put it mildly.

[thod]

Who really cares if there are Russians in South Ossetia or if its Georgians. Nobody has ever heard of this place before. The Russians want it, let them have it. The can take Iraq too and Afghanistan. Then there are all those African hell holes they can have. If they go in, they will spend the next 20 years trying to get out. Let the Russians bankrupt themselves trying to police these places. America should be saying "Go Go Russia, you have the biggest dick of us all" to encourage them.

[Paul Siraisi]

	Originally Posted by larkin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Most of them have to live it, not you, so it's certainly not just talk. And they would have said the same during Saddam after we cut him off in 91.

Woulda coulda.

I'm pretty sure Saddam killed people for saying stuff he didn't want to hear. Now, whatever the real level of hardship relative to before, talk is cheap. Just something to take into account.

[Kearley65]

	Originally Posted by larkin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And here, the Russians invaded? Really? The Russians were there. Think what you want of them occupying Ossetia in the first place (or Chechnya, or etc.), but at that time they didn't cause anything, Saakashvili did - with much more than supplies from the U.S. (i.e. the full-throated support of John McCain, with the same advisors Romney has today.)

This is according to a guy that was from Russia that one of my good friends got to know when he was at the seminary, before he dropped out, and he just told me what his Russian friend thought of his homeland. He was speaking more about how Russia is currently after the Cold War has ended and but he also stated that the people in power, Putin, do not like the US or its allies. He left Russia 10 years ago and he does not the desire to ever go back according to my friend that is, but I know my friend pretty well and he is the kind not to make stuff up for entertainment value. He does have his impersonation down to a science and it will make a deaf person laugh.

[Urshulgi]

Originally Posted by Kearley65 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

This is according to a guy that was from Russia that one of my good friends got to know when he was at the seminary, before he dropped out, and he just told me what his Russian friend thought of his homeland. He was speaking more about how Russia is currently after the Cold War has ended and but he also stated that the people in power, Putin, do not like the US or its allies. He left Russia 10 years ago and he does not the desire to ever go back according to my friend that is, but I know my friend pretty well and he is the kind not to make stuff up for entertainment value. He does have his impersonation down to a science and it will make a deaf person laugh.

I'm an American living in Russia. It's my opinion that Russia isn't looking for a real war right now, and neither is the U.S. Putin and his supporters blame the U.S. for a lot of things in the same way that Europe blames the U.S. for a lot of things. We're the most visible target, and blaming an external actor to distract from domestic failures is a tried and true political tactic.

The U.S. has no real interests in Syria. If anything, we should be aligned with Russia on this, because the overthrow of the Assad government would probably end up with a fragmented state where radical islamists would have much freer operating capacity. Russia has already gotten burned once in Libya, where their oil and gas companies are likely to lose lucrative contracts.

The only reason the U.S. government cares about Syria is because Israel cares about Syria, and that's hardly a legitimate reason to sacrifice our relationship with Russia.

[zibber]

	Originally Posted by Tocsin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	We're quickly approaching a point in the middle east where humanity once again has the chance to demonstrate how stupid it is: Are we going to expend vast amounts of resources and energy inconclusively fighting over moderate amounts of resources and energy?

The Military Industrial Complex is anything but stupid. People get morbidly rich from it.

It's really not about saving the world. It really is just about money.

[Megalomania]

	Originally Posted by Urshulgi To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The only reason the U.S. government cares about Syria is because Israel cares about Syria, and that's hardly a legitimate reason to sacrifice our [shitty] relationship with Russia.

	Originally Posted by zibber To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It's really not about saving the world. It really is just about money.

If we had enough money, we could like, save the world with it.

[Kearley65]

	Originally Posted by Urshulgi To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'm an American living in Russia. It's my opinion that Russia isn't looking for a real war right now, and neither is the U.S. Putin and his supporters blame the U.S. for a lot of things in the same way that Europe blames the U.S. for a lot of things. We're the most visible target, and blaming an external actor to distract from domestic failures is a tried and true political tactic.

Then I will take your word from it. The Russian my friend knows is probably just thinking of the way Russia used to be. From what I remember, he has not been there for over ten years so things have most likely changed. And since you currently live there, I guessing you have a more understandable idea of what the attitude is like over there. I do understand that a lot of people blame the U.S. for things, when I was in Australia back in 2008 the people there also blamed some of the worlds problems on the U.S. and I guess the U.S. bring it on themselves.

I still have to say that I do not see the U.S and the Russians working together to solve a problem. Putin is still Ex-KGB and in my eyes can never really be trusted all that much.

[VF1J]

	Originally Posted by Kearley65 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	As long as ex-KGB operatives are in high levels of government in Russia...cough, cough Putin, cough, cough.., Russia is a threat that should not be taken lightly.

From their point of view, NATO and the US are huge threats too... So what?

[Kearley65]

Exactly and of course it has to do with relativity of what side you are on. Do you expect long term enemies to become friendly all of the sudden. Only if it meant both parties would profit by becoming friends. The last time I checked, the only Russians profiting big are the ones in the NHL and the Mob. (That's a joke of course). Yes the Cold War is over but what about the hostility between the two sides. Is it over? Just because the Cold War is over does not always mean the two side will now coexist in harmony with one another.

[Urshulgi]

Russia is at a tipping point really. They want to work against the West from a military influence perspective, but they have to balance this out with the very real threat of China slowly assimilating vast tracts of territory in Eastern Russia, along with the resources out there. The Chinese in Eastern Russia are breeding in a way they aren't allowed to in China. If at some point in the future they gain enough people to start some uprising there, the Chinese government could use it as an excuse to annex.

Putin is a bastard, but even he knows the long-term threat to Russia is China.

[Tocsin]

	Originally Posted by zibber To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The Military Industrial Complex is anything but stupid. People get morbidly rich from it. It's really not about saving the world. It really is just about money.

Making a profit while destroying the only planet we have to live on... you can't get any more stupid than that.