[drswitchoff]

All we hear are stories about people who lost it all because they didn't have health insurance. My former wife dropped 40k having a suspicious lymph node removed. A buddy of mine owes 35k for a few days in the hospital with gastritis. They both have mortgages and are both now screwed.

On the other hand I have health nut friends going on fifty thinking they played it just right and are ready to get health insurance for the first time. Over the last 20 years they've saved like 150k.

I realize my question only applies to healthy people with reasonably safe lifestyles. That's me. I'm buying a home and now it's like I have to pay as much in health insurance as I was in rent just to protect my home on the off chance that a health problem in the range of hundreds of thousands of dollars comes my way. Like if it was a 50k hospital bill, I would rather take the hit. If it was a 2 million dollar bill I would be screwed even with insurance.

Has anyone have a good analysis?

[eagleseven]

If you're worried about a big hit, like a $500k emergency brain surgery, you should look into high-deductible plans with no upper-limit for benefit. These require you to pay up to a certain limit, after which everything is covered...a general deal for those in good health.

My high-deductible plan from work costs roughly $70/month, and has a $1750 deductible. I pay everything up to $1750 per year, and after that everything is covered by the insurance in full.

So let's say I get hit by a car, and have to spend a month in the hospital recovering, total cost $250k. I'll pay $1750 up front, and my insurance will cover the $248k in full. Any other medical expenses that year are covered in full, until the next year when my deductible resets.

Which means, between my fees and deductible, I know my medical expenses will always be between $840-$2590 each year...and this is all pre-tax money. A small price to pay to avoid a life-ruining medical bill, imo.

[PlungingHornets]

The joke is that (for profit) health insurance will protect you from bankruptcy.

They concluded that 62.1 percent of the bankruptcies were medically related because the individuals either had more than $5,000 (or 10 percent of their pretax income) in medical bills, mortgaged their home to pay for medical bills, or lost significant income due to an illness. On average, medically bankrupt families had $17,943 in out-of-pocket expenses, including $26,971 for those who lacked insurance and $17,749 who had insurance at some point.


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Looks like health insurance made about $9,000 worth of difference.

I would still get the insurance, tho, because the care is probably better and you have more access to doctors. Financially speaking the high deductible plan is the best deal.

[drswitchoff]

	My high-deductible plan from work costs roughly $70/month, and has a $1750 deductible.

I think a plan like that would cost an individual a few hundred dollars, maybe still worth it.

	On average, medically bankrupt families had $17,943 in out-of-pocket expenses, including $26,971 for those who lacked insurance and $17,749 who had insurance at some point.

I think the people in that study were over extended. In 2006, when banks were throwing money around, if you couldn't borrow 30k to pay a medical bill, you were probably already mortgaged to the hilt.

What percentage of people under 45 use their health insurance? My brother is 50 and has paid 250k over 25 years. At what age do people get cancer?

[eagleseven]

	Originally Posted by drswitchoff To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think a plan like that would cost an individual a few hundred dollars, maybe still worth it.

I work in healthcare so it's better than average, and much better than an individual plan, yeah.

	Originally Posted by drswitchoff To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What percentage of people under 45 use their health insurance? My brother is 50 and has paid 250k over 25 years. At what age do people get cancer?

That's why it's insurance. Like with homeowners insurance, your house probably won't burn down, but if it does, you'll be ruined without insurance. I've identified cancer in 25-year-olds, but it's most common after the age of 60.

Health insurance stops functioning as insurance when you know you'll be using it, particularly with the old or chronically ill. At that point, it's an economic clusterf*ck.

[topquark]

The way insurance works is that, on average, people pay in more than they take out. Otherwise the insurance company wouldn't make a profit and so wouldn't bother offering the product.

OTOH, paying "small" (compared to cost of treatment) amounts over many years protects you from having to pay out a huge amount all at once. Most people like that certainty.

Incidentally, you've pointed out the big inefficiency in the US healthcare model. In a nationalized system, people pay tax and their money goes towards providing healthcare. In the US, the money paid in is split between healthcare provision and the profits of the insurance companies. Money is leaking out of the system into the pockets of those who own the insurance companies.

[AlfredSchnittke]

Idk how the hell you are supposed to deal with just regular medical expenses.

I had to see a gastroenterologist today just for a diagnostic and antibiotic prescription...cost $275.

It's like...basically you have to be constantly sick for insurance to be worth it.

It'd be nice if it could protect you from those few small $300 visit hits you might need to make only once or twice a year.

Especially since you pay that much anyway.

I guess selling low-deductible insurance wouldn't make them any money though hah

$25 a month, covers anything $1,000 and under.

In a perfect world I guess

[thod]

Grow some balls. When its your time to die, its your time. Why impoverish yourself trying to stave off the inevitable. Better to live like a man and go out early than endure a long life life of servitude.

[Necrosis]

Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Idk how the hell you are supposed to deal with just regular medical expenses. I had to see a gastroenterologist today just for a diagnostic and antibiotic prescription...cost $275. It's like...basically you have to be constantly sick for insurance to be worth it. It'd be nice if it could protect you from those few small $300 visit hits you might need to make only once or twice a year. Especially since you pay that much anyway. I guess selling low-deductible insurance wouldn't make them any money though hah $25 a month, covers anything $1,000 and under. In a perfect world I guess

That's why they have different types of medical insurance. There are client choice plans which have low deductibles and sometimes no co-pay. These are for people who are rarely sick. One of the plans my company offers, will pay everything up to $5000, after which you are responsible for 85% of everything after. The yearly cost is less than 1000$. For anyone in good health that rarely goes to the doctor, this is a great choice for them.

[drswitchoff]

In my case, there's no need for help with visits and prescriptions. It seems very unlikely that I will have anything more than the flu for the next 5 years, like 1:10,000. I think that's the cancer ratio for young people.

But in the mean time, if I have a mole removed on my own dime, skin cancer will never be covered because it'd be a pre-existing condition. There is a point at which a guy will benefit from having insurance. I want to be the outlier that beats the house. I have a good family history and I don't need help with little stuff. I want to wait until the day before my prostate starts acting up to get insurance. I just don't know when that is likely to be. Well... with the prostate example, I do have some idea. But I want to see the numbers. For example one out of X number of males ages Y to Z with low risk factors file claims over 10,000 dollars. And how many of those claims get paid?

[Dangime]

Why not just do it at 40 when you're supposed to start getting cancer screenings anyway? If you get cancer before 40, chances are its the aggressive sort that's going to finish you off anyway. Much of it has to do with family history so you know what to look for. What killed your grandparents? or their parents? Your various aunts and uncles?

Unfortunantly for me, it seems like most of my male family members put themselves into the grave with the bottle or overwork, so I don't have much to go on except to one day get colon cancer screenings.

[Autumnleaf]

Some people just don't pay medical bills.

Other people don't own a home since if you aint got nuthin you aint got nuthin to loose.

I think the best way to go is to get affordable health coverage if you can.

You can do everything 'right' with diet and exercise and lifestyle choices and still get crap like lung cancer. Life isn't always fair, so enjoy yourself and try to mitigate risk where you can.

[Terennnash]

Dealing with the billing end of hospital stays, i strongly recommend some kind of insurance.
All it takes is one car accident to rack up 10's of thousands in medical bills, and most auto policies pay $5,000 max for medical, assuming you dont sue the insco.

Granted your risk of a hospital worth car accident is fairly minor, its still not worth the risk. And no, i dont say this as some kind of industry insider trying to get another sucker hooked. I do help people exploit the system as much as possible, via gifting knowledge they would not other wise have.

For instance, the hospitals i work for, if your income is less than double the federally mandated poverty line, you can have your entire bill written off to charity. this hospital wants to do it for tax purposes, and it helps the little guy too. Most people don't know about that line in the sand.

[thod]

If I was given a six gun with a single bullet and offered a million dollars to play Russian roulette. I would pull the trigger. One way, I am dead and know nothing, the other I am rich. It's all a matter of risk attitude.

[Storm]

There are so many different types of medical plans. It really depends what you want to do. The high deductible plans are usually fairly cheap, although make sure to read all the fine print. Some only cover you if you're in network or only cover emergency-care. the new healthcare law should also be change a lot of things. Of course, medical insurance is also dependent on your personal health. If you smoke or are overweight, it gets more expensive really quickly.

If you've got kids, though, that's a different story. Probably going to need some beefier insurance since kids require a lot of expensive preventative care and get sick/hurt all the time.

I think even individual plans are worth it though - well especially now since you'll have to pay Uncle Sam if you don't have it. If all you're worried about is getting hit by a bus, you can get emergency-only healthcare for like $40 a month or something.

[AlfredSchnittke]

Originally Posted by Necrosis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

That's why they have different types of medical insurance. There are client choice plans which have low deductibles and sometimes no co-pay. These are for people who are rarely sick. One of the plans my company offers, will pay everything up to $5000, after which you are responsible for 85% of everything after. The yearly cost is less than 1000$. For anyone in good health that rarely goes to the doctor, this is a great choice for them.

I should probably look into one of these.

The problem is, I am perpetually "sort of sick".

I never seem to have anything life threatening, but I always seem to need a few thousand worth of "micro" medical procedures every year.

I'm guessing that will get me denied for this kind of coverage though as they probably would be guaranteed to lose money off me hah

[Autumnleaf]

	Originally Posted by thod To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If I was given a six gun with a single bullet and offered a million dollars to play Russian roulette. I would pull the trigger. One way, I am dead and know nothing, the other I am rich. It's all a matter of risk attitude.

There are other possibilities to consider. Its a matter of luck and physics.