[PRBori]

How low is too low?

So, it seems like the battle with cholesterol is never ending, one day is insanely high, the next day is seriously low. Based on my test results from yesterday, this is where I am at

Triglecyrides 295. Ok, I get that is high and it should be <150. Still trying to figure this one out.

HDL cholesterol 22. Again to low, I guess it should be >39 so I have to increase exercises.

VLDL Cholesterol 59. This is high, I guess it supposed to be 0-40. No idea what it means or what to do to reduce it.
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LDL Cholesterol 5 mg/dl. Not sure what to think, results say that 0-99 is normal, yet the doctor said she has never seen such a low number and ask me to retest.... She said if it is accurate I have to see a cardiologist, yet when I research it has nothing to do with heart dicease, but everything to do with cancer.

So, why is it that having low bad cholesterol is bad? It is so confusing. And how exactly is one supposed to increase it? Eating fried food and fatty things?

Anyway, comments anyone? Has anyone encounter a similar issue? Maybe I took way too many cholesterol lowering pills? What would cause that?

[Fecal McAngry]

Was the blood test taken while fasting for 8+ hours? If not, the triglycerides number is meaningless.

What is your diet like? I'll go out on a limb and guess it's not low-carb, with plenty of animal fats...

Very low total cholesterol is associated with many problems, from a much greater risk of depression/suicide to a higher risk of infection...

[PRBori]

	Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Was the blood test taken while fasting for 8+ hours? If not, the triglycerides number is meaningless.

. Yes, no food from midnight until 10:30

	What is your diet like? I'll go out on a limb and guess it's not low-carb, with plenty of animal fats...

Well, after learning that I was borderline diabetic and cholesterol was high, I flipped to everything 100% whole grain, no oils outside of olive oil for cooking, limited butter intake,, lots of nuts, no fry food, limited fast food, lots of seafood, but limited in quantity, meaning no more than 6 pieces of shrimp or baby scallops, no red meats, mainly chicken and turkey, some lamb in between. Wild rice instead of white for the most part, 0 white breads, and mainly sugar free candy and soda. Lots of dark chocolate 60% plus.

	Very low total cholesterol is associated with many problems, from a much greater risk of depression/suicide to a higher risk of infection...

Hmmm... Well, I don't think I was fully depressed, but the move did impacted me just a bit. I wasn't fully prepared, plus I've been a bit too stressed out in general. Have a lot on my shoulders as a single parent and summer is quite stressful.
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What are the odds of stress causing the low LDL?

[Fecal McAngry]

Originally Posted by PRBori To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

. Yes, no food from midnight until 10:30 Well, after learning that I was borderline diabetic and cholesterol was high, I flipped to everything 100% whole grain, no oils outside of olive oil for cooking, limited butter intake,, lots of nuts, no fry food, limited fast food, lots of seafood, but limited in quantity, meaning no more than 6 pieces of shrimp or baby scallops, no red meats, mainly chicken and turkey, some lamb in between. Wild rice instead of white for the most part, 0 white breads, and mainly sugar free candy and soda. Lots of dark chocolate 60% plus. Hmmm... Well, I don't think I was fully depressed, but the move did impacted me just a bit. I wasn't fully prepared, plus I've been a bit too stressed out in general. Have a lot on my shoulders as a single parent and summer is quite stressful. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. What are the odds of stress causing the low LDL?

Stress probably can influence (*most likely raise*) LDL slightly, as it is part of the immune system in a broad sense.

In any case, with the exception the dark chocolate, fish and nuts (provided they are real nuts and not prepared in vegetable oils) you are doing almost everything wrong...

Some suggested online reads/podcasts:


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[eagleseven]

	Originally Posted by PRBori To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So, why is it that having low bad cholesterol is bad? It is so confusing.

LDL (low-density lipoprotein) carries lipids from storage into tissue that needs them. Which includes depositing cholesterol in damaged arteries, and covering infectious bacteria in fat to limit their growth.

HDL (high-density lipoprotein) does the opposite. It removes excess lipids and cholesterol from the tissues and returns them to the liver for storage/excretion.

VLDL (very-low-density lipoprotein) carries liver-synthesized lipids to the tissues, as needed. Little is known about their many roles and links to disease, and many lipid panels don't even report it.

Chylomicrons (part of the triglyceride measurement) carry digested lipids from the intestine to the liver for processing and storage. They directly correlate with your fatty intake.

---

We don't really understand how these systems work in the body, though we know their function is critical. LDL is thought to be "bad" because it builds protective cholesterol plaques in your arteries which cause heart attacks, while HDL breaks down those plaques.


Also, there are different methodologies for perform lipids panels. The cheapest is an estimation based upon the triglyceride and HDL levels, while the most expensive is a direct LDL test via nuclear-magnetic-resonance (NMR) readings. There are also LDL-cholesterol-concentration tests now available, but the clinical correlations are still raw (new).

	Originally Posted by PRBori To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And how exactly is one supposed to increase it? Eating fried food and fatty things?

I perform lipid panels for a living...even Clinical Chemistry Pathologists don't have a solid answer to that question. Overeating and obesity are thought to be a factor, as are genetic regulators and hormone levels. It's an insanely complex regulatory system they're still investigating.

Most drugs have focused on preventing said molecule's synthesis in the liver. Which is "fixing" a very delicate system with a sledgehammer, hence all the nasty side effects of the cholesterol drugs.

	Originally Posted by PRBori To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Anyway, comments anyone? Has anyone encounter a similar issue? Maybe I took way too many cholesterol lowering pills? What would cause that?

Depends upon the chemical activity of the pills and how your body's regulatory system responded to them. It also depends upon the LDL and HDL levels your body needs for optimal function (differs from person-to-person).

If anything, the limitations of the lipid panel demonstrate how little we really know about the human body, and how much of modern medicine relies upon blunt pharmacology. We still don't truly *know* that LDL is a cause of heart disease, or rather a symptom of the root problem. People with lower LDL have lower risk of heart disease, but is that because they lack the root problem? We just don't know.

P.S. I've got access to cutting-edge medical databases that you can't cheaply find online...their recommendations often conflict due to lack of fundamental knowledge.

---------- Post added 08-10-2012 at 12:31 AM ----------

P.P.S. I somewhat suspect that taking cholesterol medication for heart disease is like taking Tylenol for a brain tumor. It'll reduce symptoms, but you've got bigger problems. Why some docs have moved away from medication and towards lifestyle modification in the treatment of heart disease.

Based on my clinical chemistry experience, I'm convinced there's no clinically significant correlation between dietary fat intake and blood cholesterol levels. The liver is the ultimate controller of cholesterol levels...abnormal cholesterol treatment should focus on re-calibrating the cholesterol regulatory system via lifestyle changes, not cutting dietary fat or saturating the liver with inhibitors.

But, what do I know?

[Fecal McAngry]

	Originally Posted by eagleseven To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I somewhat suspect that taking cholesterol medication for heart disease is like taking Tylenol for a brain tumor. It'll reduce symptoms, but you've got bigger problems.

There are beneficial effects from statins for certain populations, but due to the anti-inflammatory effects best achieved by other means for almost everyone, NOT due to their cholesterol-lowering effects.

Statins are a VERY nasty group of drugs with major, major sides.

Analogy: If there is a fly on your forehead, why get rid of it by shooting your forehead with a shotgun when you can simply shoo the fly away?

[Deliberator]

If you are taking cholesterol-lowering drugs then they may be working waaaaaay too well. It could be very dangerous... cholesterol is important for so many processes in the body, and low cholesterol is not only associated with increased risk for accidents (due to impairment of visuomotor speed) it also increases risk for cancer, hemorrhagic stroke, and increases risk of dying if you DO get a heart attack (ie of those people who get heart attacks, those with low cholesterol are more likely to die from the heart attack).

If you are diabetic then your cholesterol problems most likely stem from problems with blood sugar control. The best way to control blood sugar is to (1) exercise (2) eat plenty of fruits and vegetables and (3) RESTRICT ALL CARBOHYDRATES. That means you will have to eat less rice and MORE fat. Even if you go on just a grain-free diet you would probably see major improvements.

Also, the best way to increase HDL is to increase your intake of SATURATED fat (yep!) so more full-fat dairy products like cheese, etc, coconut oil, and high-fat meats like sausage.

The best way to lower triglycerides is to lower intake of carbohydrate since excess carbohydrate is what is directly converted into triglycerides.

[Fecal McAngry]

	Originally Posted by Deliberator To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The best way to control blood sugar is to (1) exercise (2) eat plenty of fruits and vegetables and (3) RESTRICT ALL CARBOHYDRATES..

Fruits and veggies are nice, but restricting carbs = restricting fruits and to some extent veggies (kale, no; potatoes, yes).

---------- Post added 08-10-2012 at 09:22 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by eagleseven To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Based on my clinical chemistry experience, I'm convinced there's no clinically significant correlation between dietary fat intake and blood cholesterol levels. The liver is the ultimate controller of cholesterol levels...

Diet controls TOTAL numbers to some extent, but it controls the breakdowns of those numbers (HDL, large, fluffy "harmless" LDL, small, dense "deadly" LDL, etc.) A LOT. Triglycerides even more so. Total cholesterol is a lot like total bodyweight--it's only a red flag for a health problem at the extremes. A 6'2" 30-year old male who weighs 100lbs or 400lbs has a problem, ditto if those are his total cholesterol numbers...he may be fitter/healthier at 250 or 170 or vice versa for either...

One of the more interesting poster presenters at AHS '11, incidentally, was Jonathan Carey of
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. While some of the things he advocates are well known, others (guar gum??) are much less so...

[PRBori]

Thank you all for your insightful replies. I very much appreciate you all for your contributions.
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I did take a bunch of pills daily to reduce it, but I stopped it about a month ago. They were mainly for tryglecirides. I didn't hear anything today, so I am hoping that the results for the LDL were simply an erroneous one.

As for the diet, I get that the paleo diet is best, but is also the most expensive choice. I'll work on it. As for giving up rice, that's going to be a hard one as it is engraved on me thru every ethnic background genes running in my blood. Rice is the heart of Puertorican, Arabic, and Indian cultures which encompass me, but I will do my very best to figure out other ways to deal with the cravings.

Also, I'm not diebetic yet, just borderline and my sugars have been pretty normal, as I do monitor it quite often since 2004.

I will try to re-integrate fats into my intake. I have been avoiding it a whole lot because I thought they were causing the high tryglecirides. Just today i had fried chicken and chicken wings which hopefully give me some fatties.
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.

In any event, certainly a work in progress. I know I have to get my stress level down, but I'm not sure how that will happen with the evolving issues regarding my family. I love them, but they drive me crazy and don't necessarily allow me to relax.
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[Fecal McAngry]

	Originally Posted by PRBori To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	As for the diet, I get that the paleo diet is best, but is also the most expensive choice

Google can help you with that. For example,


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[Deliberator]

	Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Fruits and veggies are nice, but restricting carbs = restricting fruits and to some extent veggies (kale, no; potatoes, yes).

You really don't have to restrict fruits and veggies to have a low-carb diet. Maybe the Atkins diet but that's designed to be ketosis-inducing (<5% of calories from carbs).

Low-carb can refer to anywhere from 0 to 35% of calories, which is an enormous range. Even just getting it down to 30% would be beneficial, in which case probably just cutting out grains and pototoes would be sufficient and there would be plenty of room for all the fruits and vegetables her heart desires.

I should probably clarify actually, when I say "restrict all carbohydrates", I don't mean to say all food sources of carbohydrates, rather that total intake from carbs should be brought down by cutting down on both sugars AND starches (as opposed to only sugar which is what most people seem to do).

[PRBori]

Just an update... got the results today, bad cholesterol is 22, but still to low so I have to follow up with a cardiologist. Funny part is that the doctor said I'll be her test bed for future patients. I guess that's a good thing, so will see what happens next.
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[eagleseven]

	Originally Posted by PRBori To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Just an update... got the results today, bad cholesterol is 22, but still to low so I have to follow up with a cardiologist. Funny part is that the doctor said I'll be her test bed for future patients. I guess that's a good thing, so will see what happens next. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Nothing like pushing the bounds of medical science with your own body! Where'd I leave that jar of leaches, anyways?

Good luck!

[Starbucks]

Just go on a banana fast for 2 weeks and do some exercise daily. You eat 30 bananas a day or so and only drink water. That will make your body as clean as a whistle. And after that get some more variety in your diet since it might be unhealthy for long term.

[Polymath20]

Some doctors will acknowledge that if you diet and exercise properly, whatever your cholesterol levels are is probably healthy for you. Just because there's an average for the whole population doesn't mean that it is some sort of magical number.

[PRBori]

hmm... update again...


Went to the cardiologist and the EKG was normal. He is not sure what to do, so instead of trying to schedule a bunch of test, he opted to recommend me to see a doctor that specializes in cholesterol only. To be exact, I am to schedule a meeting with a Lipidologists.
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Outside of cholesterol, every other single test comes normal. I'm wondering, maybe I took way too many medicines to lower the triglycerides and such lead to this disparity? This is driving me insane. Triglycerides are still high, and Bad Cholesterol is way too low... you'll think that's a good thing, but I guess not. I'm so dearly confused. This is not funny.