[Freedom Geek]

Originally Posted by Ian Morrison To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I played the original, thanks. That wasn't Shepard's army, was it? If it was and that was his motivation, that makes even LESS sense, since he didn't NEED to look like the "good guy", he would already be the aggrieved general. I can't think of a single good reason for him to betray the player, even if (and it's hardly clear) he orchestrated the entire war for his own glory, simply because the player doesn't KNOW anything... the only possible reason would be to hide that Price fired off the nuke, but that wasn't even hinted at. The betrayal seems to have been done more for shock value than any actual narrative purpose. The only tie I felt between the first and second game is the presence of familiar faces and the barely elaborated Zakhaev/Makarov relationship, which I really wish had been played up. Instead, it got a single line in the game. This. Like I said, my jaw was on the floor and I played through in a marathon session, wanting to know what happened next. The drama they were portraying was INCREDIBLE, which is almost enough for me to forget the incoherent plot entirely. It was just THAT GOOD. Just on a tangent, as the topic seems to be shifting that direction anyways, I figure I'll list some of the best stories and storytelling I've seen in games in the last few years: FEAR, HL2: EP2, Portal, MW1/2, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age: Origins. I'm probably missing a couple, but those are the ones that come to mind first.

He said that when 30000 of his troops were killed by the nuke the public had become so apathetic that they simply didn't care and he wanted something to personally effect them like an invasion to get them caring again.

[Ian Morrison]

Where was this? I don't remember that at all.

[Kisai]

	Originally Posted by Gildur24 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And you guys shot the civies whats wrong with you people? lol I just shot over the heads of the crowd.

I'm surprised at you INTJs! Civilians are meat shields, not target practice!
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[Toas]

Amazing game. Airport mission didn't bother me at all. I've played it over a few times.

[boldbidder]

Ok, just played through single player again, had been consumed by Spec Ops, and upon repeat viewing the story actually makes a lot more sense. Also, I've decided that that the most emotionally charged sequence for me was

( Show Spoiler )

Shephard killing you and then being set on fire. I was dazed and confused the first time around, my reaction was basically, 'Huh?!? WTF?!? Did this crusty frakker just shoot me?" Where as this time around I was really incensed, I wanted to leap into the TV and choke the ever loving shit out of him. Being shot is one thing, but being set on fire and watching them toss Ghost's lifeless body into that hole really pissed me off.

The ending was still the adrenaline rush the 2nd time as the first, kinda how I always get a tingles up spine during Gordon's closing monologue of The Dark Knight, just one of those things that works every time. IW has really achieved something here in that they've created two characters in Soap and Price, and even Nikolai to a lesser extent that I really connect with and am rooting for. MW3 can't get here fast enough.

[Phoenix rising]

If anyone wants a partner for special ops on the PS network, message me.

[boldbidder]

Interview with the lead script writer, courtesy of Gampro. He goes into a fair amount of detail about the entire creative process paying special attention to the Airport sequence.


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[Necrosis]

Originally Posted by boldbidder To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Ok, just played through single player again, had been consumed by Spec Ops, and upon repeat viewing the story actually makes a lot more sense. Also, I've decided that that the most emotionally charged sequence for me was ( Show Spoiler ) Shephard killing you and then being set on fire. I was dazed and confused the first time around, my reaction was basically, 'Huh?!? WTF?!? Did this crusty frakker just shoot me?" Where as this time around I was really incensed, I wanted to leap into the TV and choke the ever loving shit out of him. Being shot is one thing, but being set on fire and watching them toss Ghost's lifeless body into that hole really pissed me off. The ending was still the adrenaline rush the 2nd time as the first, kinda how I always get a tingles up spine during Gordon's closing monologue of The Dark Knight, just one of those things that works every time. IW has really achieved something here in that they've created two characters in Soap and Price, and even Nikolai to a lesser extent that I really connect with and am rooting for. MW3 can't get here fast enough.

Sadly there has been no confirmation that's in progress yet. In fact, IW said that they hadn't started nor was it on their mind at this point. Hopefully it comes out within the next two years. We all knew they won't leave it at such a cliffhanger especially considering the money it made.

[ConstableCuddle]

	Originally Posted by Ian Morrison To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	However, on reflection, the plot REALLY made no goddamned sense whatsoever. The first game had a consistent plot that tied everything together, but almost all of the major plot events had me going "wait, what?" The airport mission in particular felt like the only purpose was to shock and disgust you... narratively, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

The point of the the airport mission "No Russian" was the key part in the story! It was pivitol in all of Makarov's plans. He knew that there was an American in his midst and he knew who it was so he set up this "terrorist" attack with American weapons, where they were to speak english only (non-english russian isn't going to be able to pick out a "Russian" accent), and he ends up killing the American spy, who the authorities find later and identify as an American, makeing it look like an American terrorist attack. The now ultranationalist Russia is already pissed off at America for killing their hero Imran Zakhaev, who you might remember from the last game (and yea, I know it was an SAS operative). So they just assume that the other terrorist attacks around the country that Makarov setup are also a part of an American conspiracy against them. If you pay attention to what is said between the missions and at the end of "No Russian" it all connects.

As for General Shepherd's betrayal, he found Russia responsible for the bomb in the first game and wanted to go to war with Russia to avenge his men. No one cared about the loss of his men, and he wanted to see everyone in Americans to become "volunteers" and "patriots". That's why he can't have anyone prove that Makarov set up the airport attack because it could possibly put an end to the Russo-American War. And that's surprisingly not that far fetched, there are a lot of American Generals who do stupid stuff to be war heroes. This game is the most realistic modern depiction of a war game, where there is no absolute good, no absolute evil. Everyone is wrong, and most people are ignorant to the fact of it.

If this makes no sense still then I'm sorry, I am a bit sleepy while typeing this.

[Ian Morrison]

	Originally Posted by ConstableCuddle To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The point of the the airport mission "No Russian" was the key part in the story!

Yeah, I got that, but it still felt like a huge stretch to have that set off a war. Yeah, I get that joe public ain't rational, but quite honestly... one of the terrorists who shot up (or may not have shot up) the airport was clearly shot by his compatriots and left at the scene. Especially given that for the CIA to blatantly shoot up a Russian airport without provocation (or even with it) is an unbelievable turn of events (because they'd have to be idiots to do so) that makes it tough to swallow that everyone bought the ruse.

	Originally Posted by ConstableCuddle To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That's why he can't have anyone prove that Makarov set up the airport attack because it could possibly put an end to the Russo-American War.

Uh, no, that's exactly what his blank check was for, and the knowledge that America was set up wasn't that uncommon. Certainly Shepard's superiors knew about it. The only possible justification is that he wanted everyone on the team that commandeered the Russian sub dead so that nobody would find out Price dropped the nuke.

	Originally Posted by ConstableCuddle To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	This game is the most realistic modern depiction of a war game...

Sorry, any game which puts out the idea that one captured satellite would mean that EVERY American early warning system would go down doesn't get to be called "realistic". :P

Now, the plot makes MORE sense in retrospect than it did immediately after, though the clarity of storytelling is obviously not up to snuff. Major plot events (Makarov's ruse actually being considered legit, the attack on America, and the betrayal being the worst offenders) are of questionable plausibility. Your main plot points CAN'T be unclear or dubious if you want your plot to hold together. Worse, there were so many other plot points that seemed completely extraneous, which confused things further... the person in the safe room and the entire chase in that south american village, for instance. Not, in my mind, the most solid and coherent way to structure a plot.

Again, though, the shear DRAMA and balls-to-the-wall awesomeness of how they pulled it all off basically obliterated all the critical thought centers in my brain until everything was said and done. It did all the small stuff so brilliantly that I never noticed the large stuff, which is quite impressive.

[Seducer]

I thought MW1 was a shallow game. I just started MW2 and it seems very shallow. It doesn't even start with any story. It just dumps you into a silly little battle. The graphics are great and I can tell they put a lot of work into it. I think the modern warfare series would've been much better if they had based it on real life battles, wars, and scenarios. MW2 looks nice but it isn't grabbing me yet. BTW I think PC graphics are starting to blow xbox 360 graphics out of the water.

[Pandemonium]

Anyone play this on the ps3 yet?

Is it me or was the game too damn short?

[Carinthian]

The game was very short. I thought I am somewhere in the middle of the plot when the credits started to roll.
However, the story itself was quite good, or it just seems that way to me because of the endless ammounts of WWII games.



PS: Is it wrong not to be so emotionally affected by the infamous airport mission? I just can't grasp how anyone could be so affected by it... Twas quite amusing, really.

[Samoan Corleone]

	Originally Posted by Carinthian To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	PS: Is it wrong not to be so emotionally affected by the infamous airport mission? I just can't grasp how anyone could be so affected by it... Twas quite amusing, really.

If you detach yourself and remind yourself it's just a game, and also keep in mind all the fun times you ran over random people in GTA games (double standard there), then it's understandable.

[boldbidder]

	Originally Posted by Samoan Corleone To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If you detach yourself and remind yourself it's just a game, and also keep in mind all the fun times you ran over random people in GTA games (double standard there), then it's understandable.

Interesting and apropos comparison. When my friends and I used to play GTA, one of our favorite things to do in MP was to go to the court house and start shooting civilians to attract as much police attention as we could. At no point did I 'feel' anything when partaking in 'operation mayhem' as we liked to call it.

Contrast that to MW2 where I felt very uncomfortable during the airport mission, I even spent a good 30 minutes try different permutations where I attempted to kill Markarov and his men. I never shot a civilian, but watching Makarov and his men gun the people down was disturbing. A fine example of why I would never let my child play such a game. I saw waaaaay too many 10 year olds with their parents in tow picking up their copy when I was picking up mine.

[Pandemonium]

I wondered around shooting the civs and had no problem. ^_^

[ranwayslo]

Your mission is to infiltrate the enemy, your rules of engagement are to do whatever it takes to gain his trust....Yeah I wasted the civvies...No I did not feel bad.