[daydreamer]

Originally Posted by Jack Raiden To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Te is fairly easy to understand all you have to do is "Look inside yourself", we're INTJs and Te is our auxiliary. What do INTJs do when they get an idea or concept in their head? Te comes and organizes and makes sense of the idea, finds its weaknesses, its strengths and then comes up with a nice summarized report on what the idea or concept is in the INTJs mind. Journal writing is unique in where you are taking internal thoughts and ideas about yourself and placing them on a piece of paper. At this point, analyzing and organizing the information becomes a Te task. (It's why INTJs are obsessed about reviewing their writing!) INTPs on the other hand have Ti as there dominant and show many of the traits of Ti. INTPs take ideas and strip it down to its essence/truth and build from there. They have to figure out everthing about the idea before they are confident that they know it. (They are never confident that they know everything). INTJs will accept the premises and build from there and come to a conclusion while the INTP will still be thinking about the premises and whether they are right. Te accepts the premises and organizes the data. Ti questions the premises and determines their validity.

this is totally accurate as applies to me and my intp husband.

[Jack Raiden]

Take for example the MBTI test.

What happens when an INTJ takes the test?
They become excited and study furiously up on all the theory about it. Sure its just a theory but it provides some interesting results.

What happens when an INTP takes the test?
They question the premises and say that the MBTI is faulty and inaccurate (of course it is!!!) and wonder if we should even use it.

Have you ever tried to speculate on some "What if" scenario with an INTP? The moment I bring up the MBTI, possibility of UFOs, doomsday prophecies, disaster scenarios they shoot it down and say it would never happen in the first place!!! (Grrr...we're just speculating...)

[Takeru]

Originally Posted by Jack Raiden To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Take for example the MBTI test. What happens when an INTJ takes the test? They become excited and study furiously up on all the theory about it. Sure its just a theory but it provides some interesting results. What happens when an INTP takes the test? They question the premises and say that the MBTI is faulty and inaccurate (of course it is!!!) and wonder if we should even use it. Have you ever tried to speculate on some "What if" scenario with an INTP? The moment I bring up the MBTI, possibility of UFOs, doomsday prophecies, disaster scenarios they shoot it down and say it would never happen in the first place!!! (Grrr...we're just speculating...)

I sort of understand now. I also understand why it is the inferior function of the MBTI for an INFP. The usual way I go about writing something in a journal (when I get the urge to) is just to let things out, I understand whats occurring then and there. So rereading isn't really the point of a journal for me (except to impose a memory.) Clarity and having to rework the whole detail isn't a necessity until I need to make it clear for other people to understand. Say in the confines of an essay or a report being given. I understand what I write, but only when others need to understand what I write is when i clarify what I can.

Though the way you describe INTJs taking the MBTI test was like me the first couple times I took the test. Repeatedly looking for information for the sake of finding more clues about the MBTI and understanding why certain functions behave a certain way (of course I already knew that this was just a test and doesn't really define everything.) I am guessing this is the "closure" that is often speak of when it comes to INFP's using the function.

[Jack Raiden]

Originally Posted by Takeru916 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Though the way you describe INTJs taking the MBTI test was like me the first couple times I took the test. Repeatedly looking for information for the sake of finding more clues about the MBTI and understanding why certain functions behave a certain way (of course I already knew that this was just a test and doesn't really define everything.) I am guessing this is the "closure" that is often speak of when it comes to INFP's using the function.

I'm glad it helps.

I'm not claiming to be an expert but from what I understand an INTJ would look at the MBTI study up on until he is satisfied and then conclude his research without having a qualm about not being correct. From what I see in your writing it looks like your a P because you "repeatedly" looked over information. An INTJ with a heavy J would read it once and then conclude. An INTP with a heavy P would review the data until eternity.

[Takeru]

Originally Posted by Jack Raiden To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I'm glad it helps. I'm not claiming to be an expert but from what I understand an INTJ would look at the MBTI study up on until he is satisfied and then conclude his research without having a qualm about not being correct. From what I see in your writing it looks like your a P because you "repeatedly" looked over information. An INTJ with a heavy J would read it once and then conclude. An INTP with a heavy P would review the data until eternity.

When something grabs my interest, I usually exhaust myself until I think I need no more of having to look at it, it gets tiring, or I lose my interest. Not sure how many sites I went through to look up INFP information I agreed with as well as disagree. I'll say anywhere from 5-10 or so sites that just talks about the different functions of INFP hahaha.

[Blues69]

I think one of the best ways to describe Ti and Te is in how they deal with flaws in a statement.

Let's say there's a statement with many inconsistancies. Naturally a Ti would rather analyse the statement and note all of the inconsistancies down rather than contruct an argument against the statement. Te would rather contruct an argument from all the known inconsistancies rather than having to find the inconsistancies for itself.

Though my example seems rather black and white, Ti and Te are far from being opposites.

[Aiss]

Discussions about Ti/Te sound a lot like "I'm using Tx and think like this, so Ty can't, therefore it's...." (x ≠ y, x, y ∈ {e, i}), stated in various ways.

What if T is just T, logical reasoning, and we're applying it in a different ways? Ti users are more interested in abstract ideas, Te users in real-world concepts. People who use one of those as dominant/auxiliary function are likely to score high on the other - which makes sense since thinking is our preferred approach overall.

This may be a coincidence, but all NTJs I know are more interested in physics than math, while NTPs tend to prefer math (again, it doesn't mean they aren't capable of it, just that it suits them better - developing a model vs applying it).

Originally Posted by Jack Raiden To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Take for example the MBTI test. What happens when an INTJ takes the test? They become excited and study furiously up on all the theory about it. Sure its just a theory but it provides some interesting results. What happens when an INTP takes the test? They question the premises and say that the MBTI is faulty and inaccurate (of course it is!!!) and wonder if we should even use it. Have you ever tried to speculate on some "What if" scenario with an INTP? The moment I bring up the MBTI, possibility of UFOs, doomsday prophecies, disaster scenarios they shoot it down and say it would never happen in the first place!!! (Grrr...we're just speculating...)

My experience is the exact opposite. xNTPs discuss "what if" scenarios a lot - improbable or impossible ones, making it pure theory, with no need to restrict imagination with real-world limits. Are you sure these "INTPs" you're speaking of aren't mistyped?

[Sinequanon]

	Originally Posted by Aiss To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Discussions about Ti/Te sound a lot like "I'm using Tx and think like this, so Ty can't, therefore it's...." (x ≠ y, x, y ∈ {e, i}), stated in various ways. What if T is just T, logical reasoning, and we're applying it in a different ways?

Because it's not. "T" by itself simply means that someone prefers to make decisions objectively. The various means of which are represented by the two versions, which have their own preferred styles.

(I quoted the first bit you said and the second bit to highlight the irony of you conflating T with logical reasoning, given that Ti maps much more strongly to logical reasoning.)

[jndiii]

I think it's important to not get too caught up in naming conventions, and that T, Te and Ti are merely classifications of how one judges input. It's like getting nit-picky about whether one is using both hands, one's right hand, or one's left hand. One may be right-handed or left-handed, but the other hand does not just sit idly by. Rather, the preferred hand is used for most tasks, while the other hand is often used in a support role for tasks requiring more than one hand. And sometimes, because it's convenient, or appropriate for the task, one uses only one's disfavored hand.

[Sinequanon]

Originally Posted by jndiii To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think it's important to not get too caught up in naming conventions, and that T, Te and Ti are merely classifications of how one judges input. It's like getting nit-picky about whether one is using both hands, one's right hand, or one's left hand. One may be right-handed or left-handed, but the other hand does not just sit idly by. Rather, the preferred hand is used for most tasks, while the other hand is often used in a support role for tasks requiring more than one hand. And sometimes, because it's convenient, or appropriate for the task, one uses only one's disfavored hand.

This is where we disagree. As I've said, I think Te needs Fi, and vice versa. To take the hand analogy, Te might be your dominant hand, and Fi would be your off-hand. I don't think switching between Te and Ti is nearly as convenient as you make it out to be (rather I think you're confusing some of the functionality of one with the other and assigning characteristics of Te to some sort of Ti that doesn't exist).

[Aiss]

	Originally Posted by Sinequanon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Because it's not. "T" by itself simply means that someone prefers to make decisions objectively. The various means of which are represented by the two versions, which have their own preferred styles. (I quoted the first bit you said and the second bit to highlight the irony of you conflating T with logical reasoning, given that Ti maps much more strongly to logical reasoning.)

I don't really understand what you mean. How is Te less logical?

[Solaris]

	Originally Posted by Aiss To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I don't really understand what you mean. How is Te less logical?

Because of:

	Originally Posted by To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. class="bq" cite="http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?s=ecdc5ab52d9f0bfb6c4f21f9b603badb&p=0#post0" dir="ltr"> Extraverted Thinking helps us organize our environment and ideas through charts, tables, graphs, flow charts, outlines, and so on.

Te is about order and efficiency, results and methods. Ti is almost opposite in that it wants to pick apart and deconstruct everything to analyze it -- thereby putting off results. Ti wants to understand, and Te just wants to get it done and to move on to the next thing. Te is the impatient sibling of Ti.

What gets sticky is that Ts often use a fair bit of both versions, so we get confused. However, if we could truly step back from ourselves and analyze (hey look, there's Ti), we'd see which one we use more -- a step that many Te dominant people skip.

[universalis]

	Originally Posted by Aiss To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Discussions about Ti/Te sound a lot like "I'm using Tx and think like this, so Ty can't, therefore it's...." (x ≠ y, x, y ∈ {e, i}), stated in various ways. This may be a coincidence, but all NTJs I know are more interested in physics than math, while NTPs tend to prefer math (again, it doesn't mean they aren't capable of it, just that it suits them better - developing a model vs applying it).

Ni speculation:

Engineering
Compsci
Physics/ Applied Maths
Pure Maths

In order of NTJ to NTP. Top down.

Originally Posted by Aiss To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Originally Posted by Jack Raiden To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Take for example the MBTI test. Have you ever tried to speculate on some "What if" scenario with an INTP? The moment I bring up the MBTI, possibility of UFOs, doomsday prophecies, disaster scenarios they shoot it down and say it would never happen in the first place!!! (Grrr...we're just speculating...) My experience is the exact opposite. xNTPs discuss "what if" scenarios a lot - improbable or impossible ones, making it pure theory, with no need to restrict imagination with real-world limits. Are you sure these "INTPs" you're speaking of aren't mistyped?

Spot on Aiss, Jack that's not INTP. The INTP might annoyingly interrupt to clarify the logical imprecisions in your construct,perhaps frequently, but don't confuse that with an unwillingness to entertain fantastical scenarios. They thrive on this.

[Benzebub]

	Originally Posted by Jack Raiden To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Have you ever tried to speculate on some "What if" scenario with an INTP? The moment I bring up the MBTI, possibility of UFOs, doomsday prophecies, disaster scenarios they shoot it down and say it would never happen in the first place!!! (Grrr...we're just speculating...)

People with INTP preferences wants what works in therory.
People with INTJ preferences wants theories that work.

[Aiss]

Originally Posted by Solaris To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Te is about order and efficiency, results and methods. Ti is almost opposite in that it wants to pick apart and deconstruct everything to analyze it -- thereby putting off results. Ti wants to understand, and Te just wants to get it done and to move on to the next thing. Te is the impatient sibling of Ti. What gets sticky is that Ts often use a fair bit of both versions, so we get confused. However, if we could truly step back from ourselves and analyze (hey look, there's Ti), we'd see which one we use more -- a step that many Te dominant people skip.

So if Ti is the analytical function, we could use Ti to analyze Te, but not the other way? Extrapolating, we could use Ti to analyze any other function, but analyzing Ti itself would be tricky - we'd need to step back enough to be able to observe it, and yet use it for analysis. I know I use Ti to analyze my other functions, but I'm not sure I can do the same with it.

What I meant when I said Ti and Te are basically applications of the same was that the differences between them seem to correspond to differences between Fi and Fe, possibly being more related to introverted/extroverted judgment than T/F itself. Ultimately both Ti and Te are "rational" functions, and yet people seem to end up arguing which one is more rational (more logical, less biased, more sensible, whatever they name it). Just because Te tends to organize ideas externally (charts etc.) and not only within the mind doesn't make the process itself any less logical. The kind of ideas they work with depends more on N/S I think.

Preference for introverted judgment implies defining the world in relation to self, extroverted judgment - defining the self in relation to the world. Ti wants to understand the world, while Te tries to place itself in it. This fits with P types being adaptable in a more passive way, while J types adapt more actively (accepting vs influencing the world).