Reply
Thread Tools
What would happen if the Germans won during World War II? None
Old 09-04-2009, 09:53 PM   #26
Luciferi
Member [17%]
 
MBTI: IsTp
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 683
 
Profit- What you have to realise is that Mein Kampf is not an outline of what became actual policy. Hitler was quite intelligent and knew very well how to ride the waves of public opinion. He was extremely popular (maybe even more popular than Obama- he didn't have to ride around in a bulletproof limo) and he used those nationalist post-war sentiments to climb the political ladder. Once in power, however, the rhetoric softens and his enthusiasm for that kind of stuff wears off.

As far as Lebensraum goes... well, for one, much of what is now inhabited by ethnic Slavs (like Poles) was originally home to Germanic tribes. So there is a historical basis for perhaps feeling as though they had a right to that land. But that aside, notice you only mention eastern Europe. That is hardly all of Europe and definitely does not include the UK, on which Hitler never had any grand designs, nor does it include any of the west, north, or south of Europe.

As far as the excursions into the east, you do have to keep in mind that they were fighting a war against the Soviets on the eastern front. You cannot always be content simply to hold the line. You have to take offensive measures sometimes, too. They also had the problem that the partisans that had originally been sent east instead of being liquidated the first time around were reorganising and launching new offensives in tandem with the Soviets. I think if they had beaten Russia and retained that occupied land (which the residents may well have preferred!), then Germanics would have been allowed to settle there, but I hardly think they would have exterminated the Slavs. It's not like there isn't still plenty of countryside, even today.

So yes, I stand by what I said- Germany did not want war with any of the European powers (and certainly not with the US) and she didn't have any intention of exterminating eastern Europeans. The problem I often have in discussing any WW2 stuff with most people is that so many have been raised from birth to think of the Germans as pure evil and have been fed a lot of misinformation and cannot look at what they did or why they did it in an objective manner. Since I have been working in the archives, I have come to realise that probably 60-80% of everything that is taught in school about WW2 is either distorted or outright false. I really wonder about the people who write those textbooks...
Luciferi is offline
Reply With Quote

Old 09-04-2009, 09:54 PM   #27
Hamburglar
Member [17%]
I will neither confirm, nor deny my identity.
MBTI: xxxx
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 710
 

  Originally Posted by KJacket
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The most obvious thing is we wouldn't be using english if the axis side won WWII.

Do they not speak German in Germany post WWII?

Hamburglar is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 10:03 PM   #28
Luciferi
Member [17%]
 
MBTI: IsTp
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 683
 

  Originally Posted by Profit
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Hess was a Lieutenant in the Imperial Air Corps where he received aeronautical training and served in an operation squadron.

Woah! You are quite right. That is not what I had meant to write. I was chatting with a friend last night while writing this and he was saying how he was signing up for pilot lessons. Um... I guess I don't remember what it was I had intended to say about Hess, though. That's what I get for late-night multitasking! Oh, well. I guess if it was important I will remember it later. Thanks for pointing out that error, though. I will correct it.

Luciferi is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2009, 01:33 AM   #29
Night Runner
Core Member [148%]
Too weird to live, too rare to die...
MBTI: INTJ
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,931
 
As a former Soviet, I feel compelled to respond to at least two of your points...

  Originally Posted by Luciferi
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
As far as the excursions into the east, you do have to keep in mind that they were fighting a war against the Soviets on the eastern front. You cannot always be content simply to hold the line.

There are two possibilities:
1. Viktor Suvorov's theory is correct - Stalin and Hitler were racing to see who could attack whom first, or
2. Hitler planned to start a war with the Soviets the whole time - which he did when he attacked the Brest fortress on June 22, 1941.
You can't possibly argue that the full-scale attack was just an accident. It had been planned well in advance.

  Originally Posted by Luciferi
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I think if they had beaten Russia and retained that occupied land (which the residents may well have preferred!), then Germanics would have been allowed to settle there

(bolded for emphasis)
You have somewhat of an argument here: there were some areas of Russia where people would much rather live under the German rule. All of those areas were in the Eastern Europe - the Baltic countries (Lithuania, Latvia, et cetera) and the Ukraine, which actually got its own SS division. Those territories had been oppressed or mistreated by Russians in the past. As for the rest of the country (or Russia prime, so to speak) - the mutual antipathy was too great. Germans and Russians are different ethnicities that don't have much in common - the very scale of the partisan warfare on the occupied Russian territory should be proof enough...

Night Runner is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2009, 04:07 AM   #30
William Schacht
New Member [01%]
 
MBTI: INTP
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 24
 
I thought Germans could have won the war in Europe if Hitler died early, and let Hermann Goering to be the Fuhrer in 1939.

In fact if United States remains neutral as it did between 1939-1941, the Germans which should have invaded Russia and most of Europe (Goering seemed discouraging Hitler/other more extreme Nazi members, thus would have prevented simultaneous wars from both side of Europe.) would only invade Canada instead. By then United States should have considered alliance with Germans, given the heavy German-American population and supportive popular sentiments back then, thus prevented warfare in lower 48. Under such conditions, I surely doubt the Germans could force Americans to speak German within a decade, but as German influence increased globally, America could have evolved into a bilingual nation, with English and German as the official languages; or even have a possibility to remain as a English-speaking nation.

There wouldn't have been baby boom in late 1940s to 1950s, Americans might have adopted a more German modernist lifestyle than it was. Lower incidences of violent crimes in Northern US cities, with an education system modeled after the modernist model, which would be more favorable to xNTx individuals. Under such education system, the NT personality would have been more influential to the American society than it had in reality. Thus, meritocracy in certain East Asian nations would have been possible in United States.

The social status of Germans, Swiss and Japanese would have been better off for at least two decades; meanwhile Eastern Europeans, West Asians, Chinese, Koreans, African Americans would have been suppressed for at least two decades as well.

The scenario would be less certain for Asia, since it was Japanese that initiated the world war throughout Asia, not Germans. Back in 1930s, the social support for the war in Japan seemed more supportive than Germans, because Japan was claims itself to be a more homogeneous nation than Germany--- there are few minorities under discrimination in Japan, while Germans alienated Jews, Eastern Europeans and even Catholic Germans, which comprised of roughly 5-10% of its population when compared to 1-2% in Japan. Thus, Japan was more determined to initiate a global warfare, unless either Germans/Americans forbids their offence throughout Asia.

However, Germans may have decided to invade Asia after they conquered Russia, possibly co-operating with Japanese ; or turn the front to Africa/South America instead of invading Asia.
William Schacht is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2009, 01:21 PM   #31
ArtistTyrant
Banned
 
MBTI: INFJ
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,559
 
The world would be a much better place if Germany had won WWII. Think of the advantages of a Nazi society: strong emphasis on science, eugenics, workers rights/automation, as well as a powerful centrally structured society that would be able to handle all sorts of issues much better than the world's current state. And also, since English is a Germanic language I believe that it would have remained in use.
ArtistTyrant is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2009, 03:26 PM   #32
Hamburglar
Member [17%]
I will neither confirm, nor deny my identity.
MBTI: xxxx
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 710
 
Interesting, linguistically speaking, that you would put eugenics inbetween science and workers rights.
Hamburglar is offline
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Myers-Briggs Type Indicator, Myers-Briggs, and MBTI are trademarks or registered trademarks of the
Myers-Briggs Type Indicator Trust in the United States and other countries.