[phej]

	Originally Posted by Jinxu To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Okay. If that's your defense, then list them.

As I've said, this has already been mentioned...

	Originally Posted by phej To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	...If need be, why graduate in four years as a full time student? Why not be a part time student? Why go to an expensive school? Get a scholarship or fellowship....

	Originally Posted by Synamon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Except that there are more than two options.... ...You aren't stuck, you can make other choices as you go along. There is the option to transfer to a less expensive school. You can work while in school (not easy but people do manage it), try and get scholarships, postpone attending college, etc. You may not like the other options, but they do exist.

And from a blog that I read every now and then:


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Originally Posted by excerpt from "Strapped: Why America's 20- and 30-Somethings Can't Get Ahead" Shaney got a scholarship which covered tuition for four years at the state university. She worked part time for room and board. She turned down internship opportunities because they don't pay as much. She was a French major and she chose to study in France for a year, which she paid with student loans. She borrowed more from student loans because tuition increases made her scholarship run out sooner than she expected. By the time she graduated she had $25,000 in student loans. She couldn't find a job because the job market was weak. Did Shaney research career prospects before she chose to major in French? Studying in France is also a luxury which she took upon herself. Again, if you have the money and you think it's worth it, go for it. But don't complain about the student loans if you make that choice. . . . In a cost benefit analysis, college education isn't that different from any other product people buy. Some colleges and degrees are a good value; some are not. You have to spend your money wisely like you do everywhere else. Not all schools or majors will lead to the same starting salary. If getting a good salary is the concern, pick your school and major carefully. If someone insists on getting a degree which doesn't lead to a well paying job or they insist on attending an expensive private college for the experience, then it's their personal choice. Money isn't everything after all.

[Jinxu]

To phej: May I ask if you are a recent college graduate? Some of your suggestion sound like good ideas on paper, but in real life are not practical for most student. I will attempt to break some of them down to you:

Why not go part-time? You can work while in school?
That won't prevent you from not having to take out loans (it may be smaller). For some harder major, engineering for example, it is not a good idea to go part-time. To be a doctor or lawyer, going part-time is not allowed.

Get a scholarship or fellowship?
Gee...if you could get a full scholarship that would be great. Unfortunately, not every student can get one.

postpone attending college?
I'm assuming you mean to postpone so that you can save enough money to go to college. Giving that w/o a degree you will be working a little above minimum wage. How long would it take you to save up enough to pay completely for college on minimum wage? This could be good advice if you are willing to wait.

transfer to a less expensive school?
By expensive, I assume you mean private. Private school definitely cost much more than public school. But it's not like public school (averaging over $20,000 total for tuition) are cheap either. Not to mention that it has been growing at twice the rate of inflation.




Jinxu added to this post, 9 minutes and 34 seconds later...


What's more is that you have avoided the main topic of this thread which is about the unfair practices that lenders are using. Thod has posted a good summary of the topics, but you have ignored it.

Instead you choose to continue with your main argument which is that students were being irresponsible, therefore was not the fault of the lender. You even try to cite one story about a French major to support your argument. However, that is a poor example, because other students from other (good) major take out loans too. This includes doctors, engineer, lawyers, nurses, etc. Some students are irresponsible, I agree, but that does not apply to all student and not necessarily a majority of them. I would say that most students go to school for the purpose of bettering their lives with college degree. And what this thread is pointing out is that lenders are preying on these students.

[Blse]

	You aren't stuck, you can make other choices as you go along. There is the option to transfer to a less expensive school.

I agree that there needs to be some serious reform in that lending industry but I find this point about state schools interesting. The return to getting an Ivy League education, in terms of income, is actually rather low (to almost non-exsistent in some fields). What matters is the degree and how you market it. In California, for instance, you shouldn't have to go into $20k debt. Tutition at a CSU (California State University) is $3,600 per year. At UC (University of California) grad school tutition will usually run $11k/yr unless you get a TAship - and most PhD students for exmaple do - in which case your tutition is waived (yep, no tutition) and you get about $17k in salary (plus benefits). The quality of education in both systems is top notch (UCs rank as "public Ivys" among the top 50 schools nationwide, competing with Harvard & Co.). Why attend Stanford for $50k/yr on a loan, if there's UC Davis ranked as highly in many fields, where you can get a PhD for free? I'm myself am the product of these two systems, like most of my family, and can only repeat that advice: state school, people, state school.

That said, I'm for creating a non-profit student loan sector with capped interested rates where all regular bancrupcy protections apply. That only seems fair. Obama has already taken steps in that direction, much to the dismay of the lending industry.

Sorry just saw that:

	But it's not like public school (averaging over $20,000 total for tuition) are cheap either. Not to mention that it has been growing at twice the rate of inflation.

What state? Are we that unusual here in Cali?

[Jinxu]

	Originally Posted by Blse To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What state? Are we that unusual here in Cali?

Sorry, I meant to say it is around $20,000 for tuition and fee for the full four years it takes to get a degree. If you took your CSU's annual tuition and add it up for four year, it comes to about $14,000. However, that's just for tuition. There's also fees that add to the cost.

[Blse]

	Sorry, I meant to say it is around $20,000 for tuition and fee for the full four years it takes to get a degree. If you took your CSU's annual tuition and add it up for four year, it comes to about $14,000. However, that's just for tuition. There's also fees that add to the cost.

Thanks for clarifying. Didn't think of that actually - but ture, if you don't live at home while in school, your costs skyrocket.

[Hamburglar]

	Originally Posted by Jinxu To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Sorry, I meant to say it is around $20,000 for tuition and fee for the full four years it takes to get a degree. If you took your CSU's annual tuition and add it up for four year, it comes to about $14,000. However, that's just for tuition. There's also fees that add to the cost.

Right now the CSU's recommended budget for students is 20,000/yr.
That covers tuition, books, living expenses etc. This information is an average of student survey data.

So technically attending a CSU campus for 4 years would cost $80,000 when you factor in living costs.